Windows 8 Consumer Preview Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 462 Old 07-15-2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

Did you go into accessibility and increase the size of everything on the desktop? After I did that, I could see everything easily on my 50" TV from the couch.
Thanks. I gave up before I got that far. I changed the settings in Display options like I always did in Win 7. Changing them only affected the desktop, not the app list accessed from the desktop.
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post #362 of 462 Old 07-15-2012, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Thanks. I gave up before I got that far. I changed the settings in Display options like I always did in Win 7. Changing them only affected the desktop, not the app list accessed from the desktop.

Yep, if you access the accessibility menu within settings in the metro interface, it will make the metro icons and text much larger.
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post #363 of 462 Old 07-15-2012, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

Actually, it just ask you upon first install what to use, Metro or the default Windows 7/8 desktop, or better yet (to be more intuitive) ask you if you are using a tablet or a laptop/desktop, and default to that selection. A simple solution to the tablet/laptop/desktop GUI problem, and everybody is happy.

Are you saying is should do that? Because I certainly don't remember getting asked that question when I installed it.

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post #364 of 462 Old 07-15-2012, 08:42 PM
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I am quite interested in this because im going to be building an htpc in october/november and i want to go with windows 8. But it also scares me, i want to try out the new features, and im hoping the mce netflix app in 8 works in canada, but im also scared a bunch of stuff will cause issues with an htpc.

Is anyone running xbmc on it? And tmt i hope fixes the issues listed as soon as its released.
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post #365 of 462 Old 07-15-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Are you saying is should do that? Because I certainly don't remember getting asked that question when I installed it.
You could do that in the Developer Preview, but it was taken out of the Customer Preview. There is no longer any escaping Metro, therefore nobody is happy, except gcoupe.
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post #366 of 462 Old 07-15-2012, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

nobody is happy, except gcoupe.

Yup - I'm looking forward to the release of Windows 8. My desktop PC is faster with the Release Preview than with Windows 7, and I haven't noticed any loss in productivity.

The past is another country - they do things differently there.

Geoff Coupe
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post #367 of 462 Old 07-16-2012, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Are you saying is should do that? Because I certainly don't remember getting asked that question when I installed it.

Nope, it doesn`t unfortunately, that was just my idea of how to properly handle 2 different types of interfaces on one single OS and keep both tablet and regular laptop/desktop users happy.
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post #368 of 462 Old 07-16-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

I am quite interested in this because im going to be building an htpc in october/november and i want to go with windows 8. But it also scares me, i want to try out the new features, and im hoping the mce netflix app in 8 works in canada, but im also scared a bunch of stuff will cause issues with an htpc.
Is anyone running xbmc on it? And tmt i hope fixes the issues listed as soon as its released.

I haven't tried XBMC but Media Browser was a no-go.
And I read on their forums that they are not even thinking about it right now.
Maybe early next year, we might see a MB beta release.
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post #369 of 462 Old 07-16-2012, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by gcoupe View Post

The past is another country - they do things differently there.
You forgot to add ... [people don't like change] for the worst. I love new, cutting edge stuff. If it's better and easier, I'll switch in a heartbeat. I'm primarily a Microsoft/PC user, but I love iOS because it's simple, elegant, thoughtfully designed, intuitive, fast and beautiful to look at. Win8 has none of those qualities. It's worse than Win7 in just about every way. Sure it may be a bit quicker and leaner under the hood, but those are about the only positives. Most things that took me 2 or 3 steps before now take 5 or 6 (how can that possibly result in equal or better productivity?). Many things are hidden, removed, oversimplified, inconsistent and look terrible. If they want to replace the Start menu with something better, I'm all for it. But they replaced it with something far worse. I'm repeating myself, but hiding and removing apps so they require a text search to run is unacceptable. Microsoft Bob was the future at one time, and you see how that turned out. Vista was another one that was supposed to be the future but sucked. People embraced Win 7 because it was far better than Vista, in spite of sharing a lot of similar elements.

Staying in the realm of AVS, current Harmony remote software is another example of bad ideas which aren't worthy of adoption. Logitech has done what Microsoft is doing with OS's. They put a lot of money and effort into a new interface that is absolutely terrible. It looks more "futuristic" I suppose. But half the functionality of the old software has been completely removed. The most frequent solution to problems posted in the logitech forums is to use the old software. Logitech suffered a big drop in sales and a lot of bad press as a result of their ineptitude. So just because something is new and different doesn't make it better.

In any case, Win8 likes/dislikes are being hashed out all over the web, so no need to repeat most of it here. Suffice to say, as an HTPC platform, Media Center hasn't changed a bit, and everything else is more difficult to find and use. That's not worth whatever small performance increases some may see IMO.

I don't usually like to make predictions, but I'm pretty confident Win8 will be a huge flop. Anyone considering it would be wise to take a wait and see approach.

If you like Win 8, that's great, enjoy it. But the vast majority of us don't, and for very good reasons other than resistance to change. If Win8 really is the future (which I highly doubt), then I don't mind staying in the past a while longer until I can switch to Linux or Mac.
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post #370 of 462 Old 07-16-2012, 02:16 PM
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And, if we really feared change, we wouldn't be downloading Customer Preview/Release Preview versions of an OS just for "fun".

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post #371 of 462 Old 07-18-2012, 07:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

And, if we really feared change, we wouldn't be downloading Customer Preview/Release Preview versions of an OS just for "fun".
Actually you are. Those that know better, either wait for the final beta to release, or pass it all together, when they realize that it is not worth time, money, nor effort to play with something that will be replaced in a year.
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post #372 of 462 Old 07-18-2012, 10:37 PM
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Alot of people elsewhere complaining about not being to boot into xbmc or other programs on startup.

Isnt it just a startup error with windows 8 that will be patched?
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post #373 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 04:10 AM
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Actually, you can. Go into desktop mode, C:\Users\Alex\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Startup and place the XBMC executable there.
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post #374 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Actually you are. Those that know better, either wait for the final beta to release, or pass it all together, when they realize that it is not worth time, money, nor effort to play with something that will be replaced in a year.

I seriously doubt Windows 8 will be replaced, from what I've learned Microsoft will be improving Win8 with small releases over the next few years instead of doing a major new version of the Windows OS.

Of course when it comes to Microsoft anything can change.
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post #375 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

Actually you are. Those that know better, either wait for the final beta to release, or pass it all together, when they realize that it is not worth time, money, nor effort to play with something that will be replaced in a year.

I don't follow that comment at all, my point was if someone feared change, they wouldn't download the preview/beta at all, they would just stick with what they have. But we're getting negative comments about Win 8 from people (like me) who have downloaded and used the previews/betas, people who like to try out new things and aren't afraid of new things.

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post #376 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 06:00 AM
 
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stanger89, people download beta's to preview the software, test what it will do, review for the bosses, if it will fit the needs, before sinking money into the final Beta product, and so on. Downloading a beta or any trial software has nothing to do with fearing change, it has to do with making sure that you are investing money into something that will not only be worth your time and effort, but will also fit the needs of what you will be using it for.

I forsee only 1-2% really doing anything with 8, the rest will either continue to use the OS they are now, some will change either to Linux or MacOS, while the other small minority of the majority, will adopt it when they purchase a new computer, with some of those rolling back to 7. This has happened with every OS of Late, when Microsoft releases.
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post #377 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

stanger89, people download beta's to preview the software, test what it will do, review for the bosses, if it will fit the needs, before sinking money into the final Beta product, and so on. Downloading a beta or any trial software has nothing to do with fearing change, it has to do with making sure that you are investing money into something that will not only be worth your time and effort, but will also fit the needs of what you will be using it for.

Right, all because you are thinking of using the software, which means your open to change. People here say if you don't like Windows 8, you simply fear change, I contend that argument is patently false. It might be true if Windows 8 were "forced" on the people here who have used it and dislike it, because if you don't have a choice in the matter it could be that it's just different and you fear that (like if 8 were officially released and it were complains from people who got it bundled on a new PC). But I contend that if you're an enthusiast here on AVS, about the only reason you'd download the 8 Preview/Beta is because it's new and different and you want to see if you like it. That's why I downloaded it. If you simply feared change, you wouldn't even bother and you'd just keep using XP or 7 or whatever you're currently using.

My point is the argument that people who don't like Windows 8 just "fear change" is completely bogus, some people like change (for the better), have tried 8, and don't think it's change for the better.

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post #378 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Right, all because you are thinking of using the software, which means your open to change. People here say if you don't like Windows 8, you simply fear change, I contend that argument is patently false. It might be true if Windows 8 were "forced" on the people here who have used it and dislike it, because if you don't have a choice in the matter it could be that it's just different and you fear that (like if 8 were officially released and it were complains from people who got it bundled on a new PC). But I contend that if you're an enthusiast here on AVS, about the only reason you'd download the 8 Preview/Beta is because it's new and different and you want to see if you like it. That's why I downloaded it. If you simply feared change, you wouldn't even bother and you'd just keep using XP or 7 or whatever you're currently using.
My point is the argument that people who don't like Windows 8 just "fear change" is completely bogus, some people like change (for the better), have tried 8, and don't think it's change for the better.

Exactly.

I did the same with Vista, then 7, and now 8. I love new tech and couldnt wait to get my hands on 8.

Sadly, I didnt like it....and this from someone who really was ok with Vista, and I really love 7.
That said, I did see some speed improvement on my HTPC with Win 8 over Win 7. It booted faster and generally felt 'snappier'.
The only reason I switched back to 7 on my HTPC was because I couldnt resolve a driver issue for my audio. Running XBMC and the HTPC wouldnt let me use my motherboarddriver for audio and would keep defaulting to the microsoft generic driver, and because of this would only default to 2-channel sound.

On my laptop, I really disliked 8. So many annoyances and quirks that made no sense to me. Want to shut down.....no problem....slide your cursor up to the corner until you hit the correct spot for a slide out menu to appear? Are you kidding me? And then everytime I was in I.E. and tryed to grab the bar on the right side of the window to scroll down, here comes the slide out menu across your screen!
Nope, not for me.

Revo Ion...XBMC For Windows...Dharma RC2
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post #379 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

....
Want to shut down.....no problem....slide your cursor up to the corner until you hit the correct spot for a slide out menu to appear? Are you kidding me?
...
Nope, not for me.
Easiest way to shutdown/restart/logoff/switchuser in Win8 is to click on the desktop or taskbar (taskbar is easiest because it is usually visible), and then press Alt+F4. Choose what you want to do from the drop down and hit enter. Done. I don't see this mentioned very many places and the nice thing is it works on Win7 and Server too.
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post #380 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 10:16 AM
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The easiest way to shut down Win8 (or Win7 for that matter) is to use an appropriate keyboard. The one I use (sold by Microsoft, of course!) has an explicit "shutdown" button at the top right which I've configured to do a hibernate.

Typing Ctrl-Alt-Del and selecting the shutdown icon works well, too.

Selden
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post #381 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 10:37 AM
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You just proved my point, which is that they took one of the simplest tasks and made it difficult, as they did with most things in Win 8. You have your shut-down button configured to hibernate (as do I). So it won't work for shut-down. You still have to go through several steps for a complete shut-down. And Ctrl-Alt-Del and Alt+F4 are tough without a keyboard, which is how I run my HTPC most of the time. Not to mention that using task manager to do such a simple thing is ridiculous. A good OS should be easier and more intuitive, not the opposite.
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post #382 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

You just proved my point, which is that they took one of the simplest tasks and made it difficult, as they did with most things in Win 8. You have your shut-down button configured to hibernate (as do I). So it won't work for shut-down. You still have to go through several steps for a complete shut-down. And Ctrl-Alt-Del and Alt+F4 are tough without a keyboard, which is how I run my HTPC most of the time. Not to mention that using task manager to do such a simple thing is ridiculous. A good OS should be easier and more intuitive, not the opposite.
While I agree with you it is probably something we are going to end up working around. I don't think they are going to change anything. It is pretty easy to create a script (.CMD or .AHK) that will do a shutdown or restart, then pin it to the taskbar for easy mouse access. I'm not sure what MS's problem is with shutdown/restart, this is now the third release where these vital functions have been unnecessarily difficult to access, starting with Vista, then Win7, and now Win8. They should really take a page from Apple or Ubuntu, where these functions are very easy to find and use.

On top of that, they have also taken away the ability to easily search from the desktop by removing the Start button. I'm not saying they should have kept the start menu, with it's Programs menu, but they could have at least provided a way to do a search from the desktop without going to Metro. I imagine third party devs will come up with a solution here (I'm even considering it). Again, they could have taken a hint from Apple where the spotlight search functionality is right there with easy access (Ubuntu has similar functionality now... not sure what they call it).
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post #383 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 11:13 AM
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Difficult to access shutdown in Windows 7? It`s in the same place as it has been for years before Vista or 7, in the Start Menu., same as it was on XP, on 98 or ME.
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post #384 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

Difficult to access shutdown in Windows 7? It`s in the same place as it has been for years before Vista or 7, in the Start Menu., same as it was on XP, on 98 or ME.
More than XP, yes. They stuffed things you use all the time (restart) on the sub-menu hidden behind the arrow. Complete sillyness. And now it is worse. Microsoft just has something against us restarting our computers...
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post #385 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 11:32 AM
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While I agree with you it is probably something we are going to end up working around.
Of course I can work around it, and did within 5 minutes. The point is I shouldn't have to. The convoluted shutdown is just representative of how everything in Win 8 takes more time and effort. I don't have the time, energy or will to workaround everything. So that's why I'm skipping Win 8. It's simply a horrible OS. If it really is the future of Microsoft, which it appears to be, then I'll be moving to another OS when Win 7 no longer works. I don't even know why I'm still following this thread. I guess I keep hoping someone will report that MS has come to their senses and made it usable before the final release.
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post #386 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DeanM View Post

More than XP, yes. They stuffed things you use all the time (restart) on the sub-menu hidden behind the arrow. Complete sillyness. And now it is worse. Microsoft just has something against us restarting our computers...


True, they could have left it as it was on XP, with 3 options right on the Start Menu, but it`s still easy to access anyway (the submenu pops out when you hover over the arrow, you don`t have to actually click it).

Now it`s worse because of the whole tablet with touchscreen / laptop with mouse/keyboard GUI paradigm. On a tablet, putting shutdown button on the main interface is a no-no. With a touchscreen the chances of accidentally pressing the wrong button is higher than with a mouse, God knows how many times i`ve accidentally touched the wrong side of the screen with a button on it with the palm of my hand while i was pressing something else with my finger. That`s why iOS and Android tablets rely on hardware buttons for shutting down.

Same goes for those 4 corners menu items, or whatever they are called. On a tablet, you usually "swipe" left/right in a lot of apps to get access to right-side menus, and those 4 menus make sense there. On a desktop/laptop, it`s not so common to swipe using your mouse, hell, on Windows 8 it doesn`t even work, you need to hover the mouse over a certain area. Swiping "may" have worked with a mouse, but it`s not implemented.

Long story short, i hope the backlash from users regarding Win 8 forces MS to release a Service Pack or update that separates the 2 interfaces, Metro just for tablets, and the "regular" Win 7/8 desktop GUI for any machine that doesn`t have a touchscreen.
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post #387 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

True, they could have left it as it was on XP, with 3 options right on the Start Menu, but it`s still easy to access anyway (the submenu pops out when you hover over the arrow, you don`t have to actually click it).
...
Here's a capture of my start menu on HTPC. Note the top pinned items...

They could just as easily be pinned to the taskbar (and probably should be)...
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post #388 of 462 Old 07-19-2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

...
Now it`s worse because of the whole tablet with touchscreen / laptop with mouse/keyboard GUI paradigm. On a tablet, putting shutdown button on the main interface is a no-no. With a touchscreen the chances of accidentally pressing the wrong button is higher than with a mouse, God knows how many times i`ve accidentally touched the wrong side of the screen with a button on it with the palm of my hand while i was pressing something else with my finger. That`s why iOS and Android tablets rely on hardware buttons for shutting down.
Same goes for those 4 corners menu items, or whatever they are called. On a tablet, you usually "swipe" left/right in a lot of apps to get access to right-side menus, and those 4 menus make sense there. On a desktop/laptop, it`s not so common to swipe using your mouse, hell, on Windows 8 it doesn`t even work, you need to hover the mouse over a certain area. Swiping "may" have worked with a mouse, but it`s not implemented.
Long story short, i hope the backlash from users regarding Win 8 forces MS to release a Service Pack or update that separates the 2 interfaces, Metro just for tablets, and the "regular" Win 7/8 desktop GUI for any machine that doesn`t have a touchscreen.

It is what "design by committee" gets you...

That said, there are a lot of things I like about Win8:
- it is snappy... really snappy.
- new copy dialog
- new taskmgr (sort of, it is still no procexp)
- Metro screen as a potential future 10' UI that is well supported by the dev tools, and thus app developers
- built-in anti-malware
- better multi-monitor support
- hopefully DisplayPort is now considered HDCP compliant ( I had to add a GT430 to my main computer just because Intel only supports 2560x1600 on DisplayPort, but Media Center doesn't consider DisplayPort HDCP compliant). i've not been able to test this, but hopefully...
- Metro makes a lot of sense on tablets, and I really want a Win8 tablet (surface looks great)
- RDP (mstsc, not the lame metro app) now remembers screen position correctly

There's probably more, but those are reasons I can think off the top of my head to upgrade... So, it becomes a matter of working around the things you don't like...
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post #389 of 462 Old 07-20-2012, 12:43 AM
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Re: shutdown in Win8. I think you all missed the point. For an average user Win8 is not supposed to be shutdown. It'll go to sleep or hibernation and wake up by itself by default. There's really no need to shut it down. If you want to save energy, just change the sleep settings.

I can't think of a scenario where a normal user needs to shutdown regularly. For developers/advanced users there're many many ways to shut it down as demonstrated here already. And here's another one: just touch the hardware power button and it'll show a list of shutdown choices.
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post #390 of 462 Old 07-20-2012, 05:32 AM
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For ppl that still needs to shutdown pcs daily, they haven't changed their habit since win95. All my PCs only sleep year around. Never shutdown. Besides, all you really have to do to shut down any morden PC is just hit the power button.

Anyway, the shortcut to bring out the settings screen is windows key+C. Windows 8 is fine in most aspects. Some minor bugs in previewe. It is definitely waaaay better than Dev Preview when working on keyboard and mouse only.
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