Windows 8 Consumer Preview Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 462 Old 03-03-2012, 04:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Please read it here http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...fficiency.aspx

What they are doing with the hard drive space is really nothing more than what has been used for Linux, just that MS is trying to make people think that they have reinvented the wheel, along with the fact, that they are dumbing down the interface to partition the hard drive, but in a virtual way, which is already done with Virtual machines. What I am talking about is the offline storage, which is and will always be Skydrive. 8 Takes advantage of Skydrive, by loading files up in the cloud, so that if you switch devices, or computers, the files will always be available.

Here, to make things simple for you, Microsoft so called "Storage Pooling" is the Samba SMB 2.2 protocol. So again, Microsoft did not invent anything new, they just decided to start implementing Open Source into Windows 8, which has been done since Windows Vista & 7.
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post #152 of 462 Old 03-03-2012, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

What they are doing with the hard drive space is really nothing more than what has been used for Linux, just that MS is trying to make people think that they have reinvented the wheel, along with the fact, that they are dumbing down the interface to partition the hard drive, but in a virtual way, which is already done with Virtual machines.

That's exactly what Microsoft is good at (and often forgot that hence let iOS take the market share away from it). Making a geeky technology accessible to common folks. Like I said before depsite all the good things about Linux, it hasn't gains much traction in consumer market.

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What I am talking about is the offline storage, which is and will always be Skydrive. 8 Takes advantage of Skydrive, by loading files up in the cloud, so that if you switch devices, or computers, the files will always be available.

So what? That's not storage space and certainly not something new. However, it is a welcome feature for ppl with multiple PCs at home. But it is not what makes Win8 shine.
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post #153 of 462 Old 03-03-2012, 11:04 PM
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My brother called me the other day about Windows 8. All I will say is, I am just getting used to fully using Win7 from XP, especially with my AV (Audio/Video) software.

Not going to be bothered with Windows 8.
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post #154 of 462 Old 03-03-2012, 11:41 PM
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For anyone interested, the Win 8 consumer preview installed and ran XBMC Eden RC2 perfectly and migrated settings without issue.
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post #155 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 12:11 AM
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Just 5 minutes ago I noticed that win 8 has built in support to mount ISOs. I just mounted one from my NAS
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post #156 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

What they are doing with the hard drive space is really nothing more than what has been used for Linux, just that MS is trying to make people think that they have reinvented the wheel, along with the fact, that they are dumbing down the interface to partition the hard drive, but in a virtual way, which is already done with Virtual machines. What I am talking about is the offline storage, which is and will always be Skydrive. 8 Takes advantage of Skydrive, by loading files up in the cloud, so that if you switch devices, or computers, the files will always be available.

Here, to make things simple for you, Microsoft so called "Storage Pooling" is the Samba SMB 2.2 protocol. So again, Microsoft did not invent anything new, they just decided to start implementing Open Source into Windows 8, which has been done since Windows Vista & 7.

You need to read up on storage space before you start discussing it. Yes-it takes advantage of the SMB 2.2 protocol but that's not what it is either. It will allow you to pool any type of drive attached to the machine. SATA, USB, Firwire, SAS. etc. Use of virtual disks which behave like physical disks for all purposes with powerful, new capabilities associated with them such as thin provisioning as well as resiliency to failures of the underlying physical media. You also have the capability of striping, parity, 2 way and 3 way mirrors.

The magic that allows us to create a 10TB mirrored space on 4TB of total raw capacity is called thin provisioning. Thin provisioning ensures that actual capacity is reserved for the space only when you decide to use it, for example, when you copy some files to the volume on the space. Previously allocated physical capacity can be reclaimed safely whenever files are deleted, or whenever an application decides that such capacity is no longer needed. This reclaimed capacity is subsequently available for usage by either the same space, or by some other space that is carved out from the same pool. We achieve all of this through architected cooperation between the underlying file-system (NTFS) and Storage Spaces.


Storage Spaces Features
Thin Providioning
With thin provisioning, you can augment physical capacity within the pool on an as-needed basis. As you copy more files and approach the limit of available physical capacity within the pool, Storage Spaces will pop up a notification telling you that you need to add more capacity. You can do so very simply by purchasing additional disks and adding them to your existing pool.

2 way & 3 way Mirroring
Another core (also optional) capability associated with a space is resiliency to failure of the physical disks comprising the storage pool. For example, the space we’ve illustrated above is a mirrored space (in other words, it has the mirrored resiliency attribute associated with it). This mirrored setting ensures that we always store at least two (and optionally three) complete copies of data on different physical disks within the pool. This way, despite partial or complete disk failure, you’ll never need to worry about loss of data. As a matter of fact, the physical disks comprising the pool are typically not even visible to other components within Windows or to applications running on your PC. By extension, the fact that some physical disks within the pool have failed, is completely shielded from other Windows components or applications. They continue to operate on the space, completely oblivious to the fact that Storage Spaces is working quietly in the background to maintain data availability. Additionally, upon disk failure, Storage Spaces automatically regenerates data copies for all affected spaces as long as sufficient alternate physical disks are available within the pool.

Parity
There’s another resiliency attribute, called parity, which directs Storage Spaces to store some redundancy information alongside user data contained within the space, thereby enabling automatic data reconstruction in the event of physical disk failure. While conceptually similar to mirroring, parity-based resiliency utilizes capacity more efficiently than mirrored spaces do, but with higher random I/O overhead. Parity spaces are well suited for storing data such as large home videos, which have large capacity requirements, large sequential (predominantly append) write requests, and an infrequent-to-minimal need to update existing content.

SMB 2.2 in Windows 8 server-Continous Availability
This brings even more than Linux or any other OS.

Transparent Failover
In W2008 R2 a failover is not transparent. There is brief downtime to take down, move over, bring up the clustered service or role. 99% uptime at best

Failover in W8 is transparent to the server application. Supported planned and unplanned failovers, e.g. maintenance, failures, and load balancing. Requires Windows Failover Cluste, and both server and client must be running Windows Server 8. All operations, not just IO, must be continuous and transparent – transparent for file and directory operations.

This means we can have an application cluster that places data on a back end file server cluster. Both can scale independently.

Changes to Windows Server 8 to make transparent failover possible:
- New protocol: SMB 2.2
- SMB 2.2 Client (redirector): client operation replay, end-to-end for replay of idempotent and non-idempotent operations
- SMB 2.2 Server: support for network stte persistence, singles share spans multiple nodes (active/active shares – wonder if this is made possible by CSV?), files are always opened write-through.
- Resume Key – used to failover to: resume handle state after planned or unplanned failover, fence handle state information, mask some NTFS issues. This fences file locks.
- Witness protocol: enables faster unplanned failover because clients do not wait for timeouts, enables dynamic reallocation of load (nice!). Witness tells the client that a node is offline and tells it to redirect.

SMB2 Transparent Failover Semantics:
Server side: state persistence until the client reconnects. Example: delete a file. The file is opened, a flag is set to delete on close, and you close the file -> it’s deleted. Now you try to delete the file on a clustered file share. A planned failover happens. The node closes the file and it deletes. But after reconnect the client tries to close the file to delete it but its gone. This sort of circumstance is handled.

In Hyper-V world, we have “surprise failover” where a faulty VM can be failed over. The files are locked on file share by original node with the fence. A new API takes care of this.

SMB2 Scale Out
In W2008 R2 we have active-pasive clustered file shares. That means a share is only ever active on 1 node, so its not scalable. Windows Server 8 has scale out via active-active shares. The share can be active on all nodes. Targeted for server/server applications like SQL Server and Hyper-V. Not aimed at client/server applications like Office. We also get fewer IP addresses and DNS names. We only need one logical file server with a single file system namespace (no drive letter limitations), and no cluster disk resources to manage.

We now have a new file server type called File Server For Scale-Out Application Data. That’s the active/active type. Does not support NFS and certain role sevices such as FSRM or DFS Replication. The File Server for General Use is the active/passive one for client/server, but it also supports transparent failover.

VSS for WIndows Server 8 File Shares
Application consistent shadow copyof server application data that is stored on Windows Server 8 file shares. Bckup agent on the application server triggers backup. VSS on app server acts with File Share Shaow Copy Provider. It hits the File Share Shadow Copy Agent on the file server via RPC, and that then triggers the VSS on the file server to create the shadow copy. The backup server can read the snapshot directly from the file server, saving on needless data transfer.

Performance for Server Applications
SMB2.2 makes big changes. Gone from 25% to 97% of DAS performance. MSFT used same DAS storage in local and file share storage with SQL Server to get these numbers. NIC teaming, TCP offloads and RDMA improved performance.

Perfmon counters are added to help admins troubleshoot and tune. IO size, IO latency, IO queue length, etc. Can seperately tune SQL data file or log file.


Some of these may be Windows 8 server only features but most are available in Windows 8
Skydrive is the least of Windows 8 new features.

Gerry

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post #157 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 05:28 AM
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Just installed this on one of my HTPCs yesterday, actually my main HTPC.
So far so good. I'm using MPC-HC with Madvr/LAV filters displaying movies and watching live OTA TV on my JVC-RS45 projector/Sharp flat panel. It boots fast and runs like a champ. I was already using the developer's preview on two other computers. This has way more features and I'm finding hidden functions the more I play with it.

Looking forward to the RC version! I'll eventually change at least 5 of the 8 PCs in the home over to it.
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post #158 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 07:24 AM
 
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Has anyone used this to upgrade a Win7 machine to Win8? I am interested to know if DRM'd TV shows still play after the upgrade. Seems that would be a vital thing for MS to make sure still works.
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post #159 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 07:35 AM
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Windows 8 may have left me behind. I can see the writing on the wall, that desktop pcs are a thing of the past but I don't want to give mine up. Windows 8 seems better suited (lack of Start button and touch centric) for touch screen laptops, tablets, and cell phones. For cell phones and tablets I currently prefer Android.
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post #160 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Windows 8 may have left me behind. I can see the writing on the wall, that desktop pcs are a thing of the past but I don't want to give mine up. Windows 8 seems better suited (lack of Start button and touch centric) for touch screen laptops, tablets, and cell phones. For cell phones and tablets I currently prefer Android.

Trust me, desktops aren't going anywhere anytime soon. I have a future build for the i7 AV editing workstation and will definitely be a desktop. And Win7 will be heading the system.

I think that 8 is more geared to mobiles, tablets and touch-based devices, neither which I have.
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post #161 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 08:03 AM
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My next computer may well be a laptop in the distant future but I expect to keep my desktop. Its an older i7 model and is great for multitasking. I have about 4 TB of disks in it along with another 2TB on a USB drive that I expect to attach directly to my Oppo 93. The desktop will probably become more of a server and HTPC but thats a ways off.
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post #162 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 08:15 AM
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I really don't understand the frustration over the lack of start menu...the metro interface is essentially just a fullscreen start menu. It loads instantaneously, so you don't lose speed. All the applications are right there just like the old start menu. Start typing and windows starts searching just like the old start menu.

I have been using windows 8 full time since the developer preview and couldn't be happier. The OS is lighter and faster than windows 7 (and windows 7 was pretty fast), they have MSE built in, and they have iso support built in. For some reason my pc games even play better on windows 8...I get higher frame rates. The newly designed task manager and file copier are far superior to windows 7. All my settings are saved over multiple computers...as a silly example if I change my background on my windows 8 netbook, the background changes on my desktop computer.
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post #163 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 08:28 AM
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I am installing it now... wish me luck.

Anyone successful with the upgrade function ?

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post #164 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 09:34 AM
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I am installing it now... wish me luck.

Anyone successful with the upgrade function ?

Yes. Not a problem.

So far it's run all the apps I used to rely on in Windows 7.

I'm not ready to dismiss the change - I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I don't think it is the headlights of the oncoming train.

However, W8 is a big change. You either love it or hate it.

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post #165 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 09:53 AM
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I really don't understand the frustration over the lack of start menu...

Ppl always bitching when something changed.
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post #166 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 11:26 AM
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it works great on a desktop, i have it installed at my main pc at work, a few new hotkeys and i get around in it as fast as 7, but it also seems to run and boot faster than 7...so for me its a win win, works great on my dell duo tablet and great on my desktop...

if you guys hate change, reinstall win2000...


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post #167 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 12:45 PM
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I think the biggest thing you're missing with Win8 is that the start menu hasn't gone away. It has evolved. If you switch to the mindset of searching for apps on desktop machines, (as Microsoft wants you to) instead of clicking through layers to find your apps in the start menu, you'll start to understand the metro interface.

On the deskop, the keyboard is going to be more important than the mouse.
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post #168 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 01:52 PM
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You guys are installing this on your main rigs? Ballsy. I think it was asked but not answered. If you do an upgrade from windows 7 do your drm'd recordings still work?
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post #169 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 02:04 PM
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You guys are installing this on your main rigs? Ballsy. I think it was asked but not answered. If you do an upgrade from windows 7 do your drm'd recordings still work?

I would never install evaluation software on my main computer. That's why they invented VMs!
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So other than looks can someone create a list of what is actually better than Win7 for HTPC use?


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post #171 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 02:11 PM
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So other than looks can someone create a list of what is actually better than Win7 for HTPC use?

For HTPCs windows 8 is not a huge improvement imo. Here is my list:

1. HDD improvements...haven't tried it yet but the pooling feature sounds good for servers.

2. Built in ISO mounting

3. Metro interface can probably be controlled via remote...making app switching much easier (and nicer looking).
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post #172 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 02:12 PM
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I would never install evaluation software on my main computer. That's why they invented VMs!

That's why I own so many. Nothing on it that I can't replace or already backed up somewhere else.
Besides.. if a blow one up, it gives me a reason to build or buy one of Assassin's units.

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post #173 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 02:15 PM
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So other than looks can someone create a list of what is actually better than Win7 for HTPC use?

I would say not much.
Some behind the scenes NFS options are more robust. Overall power requirements are less. Basic file transfers are faster. Startup is faster.

If you already have a Win 7 HTPC I see no reason at all on why you would want to upgrade. If you're building a new HTPC once Win 8 is released and assuming no major delta in pricing, there isn't a compelling reason not to utilize it from what I can tell thus far.

Grab a copy of the consumer preview and place it in a VM and play around with it.
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post #174 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 02:25 PM
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Is simultaneous audio an option? From this posting, it is but I'd like to confirm.

I usually listen to Rhapsody via HDMI in the main zone. But if I want to listen to Rhapsody via zone 2 on my receiver, I have to go to control panel/hardware and sound/sound/manage audio devices and switch the default playback device to Speakers. Then I have to switch it back. It's a nuisance.

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post #175 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 02:25 PM
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Been messing with it in vmware for the last ten minutes and metro is a nightmare. I know I haven't grasped it yet but it was quite frustrating. Not sure how anyone could prefer that for desktop. Looks like something designed for small children or old people.
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post #176 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 02:30 PM
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Looks like something designed for small children or old people.

Hey!!!
LMAO..kidding..I'm neither..stuck somewhere in between.
The interface takes some adjustment. Once you use it enough, it becomes second nature, just like the rest of this stuff.
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Some of the stripped down and simplicity stuff might actually drive enthusiasts away...

I know there is a migration from standard laptops and desktops to silly tablets and such because average people can't own and operate a standard windows based PC properly.

My desktop is probably faster than 99.5% of the PC's normal people use.

I could never tolerate the crap my parents or friends use on a daily basis.

But- Because it's slow I don't migrate to some silly tablet that's designed for a less PC literate person to operate and think it's actually faster than the PC I just replaced because the PC was all gummed up with bloatware and garbage and errors.

I can't help but feel this new windows it moving in the direction of tablets- and smart phones- and stripped down simplistic interface-

That scares me as an enthusiast.

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post #178 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
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Hey!!!
LMAO..kidding..I'm neither..stuck somewhere in between.
The interface takes some adjustment. Once you use it enough, it becomes second nature, just like the rest of this stuff.

I know I need to give it some time. But like the post above me this really seems like a dumbed down version of windows.
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post #179 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 03:21 PM
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I know I need to give it some time. But like the post above me this really seems like a dumbed down version of windows.

Isn't that where its all headed? Apple has made a killing using that approach.


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post #180 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
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I know I need to give it some time. But like the post above me this really seems like a dumbed down version of windows.

The average PC user wouldn't have a clue how to find the AVS forums, much less how to ask for help.
hence, the dumbing down... to keep sales up!

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