Windows 8 Consumer Preview Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Isn't that where its all headed? Apple has made a killing using that approach.

I guess. Its lame if you ask me.
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Originally Posted by Shark007 View Post

The average PC user wouldn't have a clue how to find the AVS forums, much less how to ask for help.
hence, the dumbing down... to keep sales up!

Yes I understand but still.
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post #182 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 04:23 PM
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Agreed. Like it or not the world is heading in the direction of "Best Buy Guy". That's why Apple has been so wildly successful. Their products are very "dummy proof". Just think about the monster that they were up against with Microsoft. Now Apple is the most valuable company in the world.

That's been the goal of my HTPC guides --- I want to get anyone and everyone into HTPC however possible. Build your own, build your own and use my guides, or just buy one from me already setup and ready to go. But let's get people into HTPC however possible. Even if this requires us to further dumb down our hobby with Windows 8 to do so (if that's even accurate. I haven't tested Win8 yet).
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post #183 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 04:38 PM
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The Win8 user interface was more than I could bear.
Adding toolbars to the taskbar saved me from going bald.

In the attached graphic, you see Windows Explorer view from the Metro UI
pressing the Windows key will swap UI's
The 1st 2 icons are the old start menu,
the subsequent icons are the old quicklaunch bar that still exist in Win8 but you have to add it manually
LL

Use Shark007 Codecs and retain your sanity.
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post #184 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 04:39 PM
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The metro interface works best with a touch screen. BUT, don't go out and buy a touch screen monitor yet. Almost all the current touch screen monitors don't work well with Win8 because Microsoft decided to use screen edge gestures for most of the important tasks(actually a few pixels on the edge). You will need to swip your finger across the edges of the screen to do that. Most of the current touch screens have entire screen sunken inside the bezel. Hence it is impossible to use any of these gestures. You will need a touch screen that is flat like a tablet.

'Dumbing down' isn't necessary a bad thing. That's what Windows OS all about. And that's how MS came to dominate the desktop market.

If you don't like it, you can still open command window and type away your commands
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post #185 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Been messing with it in vmware for the last ten minutes and metro is a nightmare. I know I haven't grasped it yet but it was quite frustrating. Not sure how anyone could prefer that for desktop. Looks like something designed for small children or old people.

I just wanted to say that I had the same first impression. It reminded me of the change from XP to Vista. A few things to like and a lot to hate.

I've been at it since release now and I am beginning to find more to like and less to hate. It takes getting used to the new interface. And finding where things work differently, but better than in the prior version. Sometimes that takes more than one version (XP to Vista to Win 7).

My movie library works better natively than it did under 7, but cable card is still giving me problems. I expect that will be worked out over time.

I do not like the new iterations of IE, the apps for music and video. At least not yet. Perhaps it is the lack of tweakability (at least they appear to be less pliable than their previous interations. Reminds me of Apple stuff (in a bad way).

But it is very early to make too much of anything yet. I really haven't had time to gain sufficient experience with Win 8 to know how I will feel about it in three or four months after I have had time to learn the good and bad points.
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post #186 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 07:06 PM
 
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PCs have to keep getting simpler to use...it is the nature of the way things work.
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post #187 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 07:22 PM
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I cut my teeth on DOS. I welcomed Windows. I used Windows 3.1, Windows for Workgroups, Windows 95, Windows Millennium, Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7. I have seen every development and refinement. For the first time, MS is losing me. I hate Windows 8. I hate it.

Metro may be okay for tablets. I say okay because I think it has been done better by others. For PCs, it just stinks. Why? It feels completely disjointed. When I first ran Windows on top of DOS, it kind of made sense to do it. A graphical UI was being put on DOS. Why do we need to put another UI on top of Windows UI? It adds nothing and introduces all kinds of compromises. I makes multitasking worse to work in Metro. It simply feels schizophrenic. I can not imagine how millions of joe sixpacks will act when they go looking for a start button and it is not there.

Again, as an OS that is meant to get stuff done, I can't imagine anyone wanting to use Metro over win7. For someone who simply wants to play around a bit and doesn't have to go back and forth between UIs, metro might be okay. I am really puzzled by what Microsoft is doing. I really feel that MS is so self conscious about its bad reputation in design as compared to Apple that it is going in a radical direction justbto show that it is bold. This is the wrong approach. Windows US could have been made more tablet friendly with less radical changes.

Big mistake being made here. Tragic.

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post #188 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 07:34 PM
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Intel has the tick tock philosophy.

Microsoft might as well.

XP (good), Vista (bad), Win7 (good), Win8 (bad?), Win9 (who knows)
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post #189 of 462 Old 03-04-2012, 10:23 PM
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I think there are a decent amount of good changes so far. I don't really care for the metro start screen, but it doesn't bother me as much as it bothers some people here... And the way some people here 'hate' it kinda reminds me of the old stubborn guy who is stuck in his old ways. Like the 80 year old professor I have teaching Intro to C++ who would rather compile programs on his 'mainframe' then use Microsoft Visual Studio...lol. I'm almost half my professors age... so I'm pretty old myself, but I like technology and always up for trying and testing out new gadgets or software.

Like I said, I could care less about the metro desktop, but I'll try to get used to it. The other small changes that I see so far I like.

Things I like so far:
File transfer graphs.
Built in ISO mounting.
Taskbars on each panel in multi-monitor configs.
Independent fullscreen for each panel (I can run skyrim fullscreen on one panel, have a webpage open on another, and watch a movie on my 3rd one). Pic showing media center playing a movie on left, skyrim in middle, and avs forums on right https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-F...305_013027.jpg My desk is a mess, and needs to be dusted.

there's probably other things too, but that is what I can think of off the top of my head.
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post #190 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 12:18 AM
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To be fair, all the Metro Apps are little more than demos at the moment. Even Microsoft are labeling theirs as "previews".

In no case that I have seen has the functionality of a Metro app been the match of an equivalent Desktop app, and most of them fall far, far behind.

Thus, at the moment, I find I'm spending 90%+ of my time in the Desktop. I'd be quite happy to change, but the Metro apps have to be available that would make me want to switch.

I like Metro on my Windows Phone - it's an excellent UI, and the apps meet my needs for a smartphone. The UI can clearly scale up to the desktop environment, but what's missing are the Apps to match their desktop rivals.

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post #191 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I cut my teeth on DOS. I welcomed Windows. I used Windows 3.1, Windows for Workgroups, Windows 95, Windows Millennium, Windows XP, Vista and Windows 7. I have seen every development and refinement. For the first time, MS is losing me. I hate Windows 8. I hate it.

Metro may be okay for tablets. I say okay because I think it has been done better by others. For PCs, it just stinks. Why? It feels completely disjointed. When I first ran Windows on top of DOS, it kind of made sense to do it. A graphical UI was being put on DOS. Why do we need to put another UI on top of Windows UI? It adds nothing and introduces all kinds of compromises. I makes multitasking worse to work in Metro. It simply feels schizophrenic. I can not imagine how millions of joe sixpacks will act when they go looking for a start button and it is not there.

Again, as an OS that is meant to get stuff done, I can't imagine anyone wanting to use Metro over win7. For someone who simply wants to play around a bit and doesn't have to go back and forth between UIs, metro might be okay. I am really puzzled by what Microsoft is doing. I really feel that MS is so self conscious about its bad reputation in design as compared to Apple that it is going in a radical direction justbto show that it is bold. This is the wrong approach. Windows US could have been made more tablet friendly with less radical changes.

Big mistake being made here. Tragic.

They already tried making the current Windows UI "tablet friendly" with Windows 7 and they failed. How many Win7 tablets have been sold versus iPads and Android tablets these past 2 years?

A tablet is a radical change in terms of input, and needs a radical change in the UI department. Just making minor adjustments to the current UI doesn`t cut it. Apple proved that with the iPad.

6 millions Joe Six Packs will use the Metro UI exclusively because tablets is what Joe SixPack is going to buy in the future. Multitasking is done by using the home button (pressing it longer) (iOS and Android) on tablets, Win8 tablets will probably have a similar button, or a dedicated button, not from the UI.
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post #192 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

They already tried making the current Windows UI "tablet friendly" with Windows 7 and they failed. How many Win7 tablets have been sold versus iPads and Android tablets these past 2 years?

A tablet is a radical change in terms of input, and needs a radical change in the UI department. Just making minor adjustments to the current UI doesn`t cut it. Apple proved that with the iPad.

6 millions Joe Six Packs will use the Metro UI exclusively because tablets is what Joe SixPack is going to buy in the future. Multitasking is done by using the home button (pressing it longer) (iOS and Android) on tablets, Win8 tablets will probably have a similar button, or a dedicated button, not from the UI.

I agree that the tablet interface brought over to desktop Windows is a bad idea. It probably will be successful on tablets and cells but for now I prefer Android IC Sandwich. I may be forced to adopt it sooner or later but don't think it will be my preference.
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post #193 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 04:33 AM
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The once dominate desktop PC will become a small part of the consumer computer market within the next few years, that is why we have Windows 8.
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post #194 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 04:37 AM
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The once dominate desktop PC will become a small part of the consumer computer market within the next few years, that is why we have Windows 8.

You are right but for the time being desktops are still around and Windows 8 is ill suited to them. Not only that, but from what I've seen Ice Cream Sandwich is a better OS on cells and tablets.
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post #195 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

They already tried making the current Windows UI "tablet friendly" with Windows 7 and they failed. How many Win7 tablets have been sold versus iPads and Android tablets these past 2 years?

A tablet is a radical change in terms of input, and needs a radical change in the UI department. Just making minor adjustments to the current UI doesn`t cut it. Apple proved that with the iPad.

6 millions Joe Six Packs will use the Metro UI exclusively because tablets is what Joe SixPack is going to buy in the future. Multitasking is done by using the home button (pressing it longer) (iOS and Android) on tablets, Win8 tablets will probably have a similar button, or a dedicated button, not from the UI.

The iPad was released in 2010 and Windows 7 was released in 2009 so it has to make the argument that Microsoft really gave tablets a go with a Windows-type UI. Plus, Windows has been tied to x86 so the tablets that were made were big, had fans and very poor battery life. So, they pretty much stunk.

The iPad interface is not much different than traditional Windows. Both are home screen/icon based. People are used to working this way. I would have kept something like the traditional Windows desktop with a start menu and just made it more touch friendly: bigger icons, gestures to call up certain menus or functions, and certainly worked on more touch friendly versions of applications.

Windows 8 is simply not a very elegant OS. It has two user interfaces! I am not sure how this idea ever got approved. Think about it:. Two different user interfaces! At least back in the day when windows ran on top of DOS, legacy DOS programs ran within the Windows UI.

Here is another problem. MS took something familiar, the Windows Home Screen and added new complexity to it: no start button, these confusing corner clicks.

Let's face it. Windows 8 was designed by committee and has everything that is good and bad about Microsoft in it. Metro is not a bad user interface, but it becomes horrible when it is bolted on as an addition to traditional Windows. Windows is a familiar UI that simply works and has the benefit of being everywhere. I feel like we are on the verge of a huge failure. Maybe the biggest the MS has ever had. It may be so big that MS loses its OS monopoly.

MS has done this because someone thought they had a great idea:. We have a desktop OS monopoly but we are really weak in tablets and phone. Let's put our failing UI on desktops. People will be forced to get used to it. These people will eventually come around and buy Windows Mobile phones and Windows tablets. MS will reign supreme!

I don't think that things will go according to plan.

As for people who think I am just an old fuddy duddy who is opposed to change, you can think whatever you want. I am a gadget lover and early adopter of most new things. I installed this beta OS as soon as I could and gave it a real shot because I wanted to like it. Have any of you let you non tech savvy spouse try to use it? What was their reaction when they tried to figure out how to get on Facebook or send an email?

Affable Nitwit
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post #196 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
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As for people who think I am just an old fuddy duddy who is opposed to change, you can think whatever you want. I am a gadget lover and early adopter of most new things. I installed this beta OS as soon as I could and gave it a real shot because I wanted to like it. Have any of you let you non tech savvy spouse try to use it? What was their reaction when they tried to figure out how to get on Facebook or send an email?

I agree, I was an early adopter of Windows 7 and used every Windows before it except for Vista. I am far more tech savvy than most. I adopted Android without hesitation. I just don't see any positives at the moment to adopting 8, it reminds me of Windows ME in that it seems fatally flawed. If they brought back the start button and menu...
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post #197 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 05:21 AM
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I agree, I was an early adopter of Windows 7 and used every Windows before it except for Vista. I am far more tech savvy than most. I adopted Android without hesitation. I just don't see any positives at the moment to adopting 8, it reminds me of Windows ME in that it seems fatally flawed. If they brought back the start button and menu...

I would bet anything that the Start button returns for the release. It is bad enough having two UIs but you can't both add a new UI and then screw up the one that people are used to using.

I added the start button back already but will be reinstalling win7 before too long.

Affable Nitwit
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post #198 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 05:59 AM
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I would bet anything that the Start button returns for the release. It is bad enough having two UIs but you can't both add a new UI and then screw up the one that people are used to using.

I added the start button back already but will be reinstalling win7 before too long.

One can hope.
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post #199 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 07:20 AM
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I was strongly disliking the new UI most of the weekend until my IT son came over and showed me some navigation tricks. Now I can see how it will probably work well as as a tablet and phone OS but still be usable in the desktop and HTPC world.

What Win8 may be bringing that may be significant to us HTPC users, are some modest performance improvements. We just might be able to get along with lower horsepower rigs instead of having to ramp them up with the new OS. I saw this post today on SemiAccurate.

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/03/05/a...sumer-preview/
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post #200 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 07:37 AM
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wow, sounds like microsoft would have won over everyone had they just renamed windows 7 as windows 8...

i've been building/using pc's for 20+ years, started on dos and i have been through all the windows, ME was the only one i can think of that i didn't like. i had no issues with vista...i have no issues with 8. just the next step and i can use it on my desktop as easily on my dell duo tablet...

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post #201 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 08:38 AM
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I noticed an earlier post (either here or on another forum) complaining about the fact that the current crop of touch screen monitors for PCs have the "edge" burried by the edge of the screen. This makes the metro UI difficult if not impossible to work with by touch on the PC. I find that I have to use either the mouse or keyboard shourtcuts to access the features that would be available to a tablet or phone user. Hopefully there will be a way to correct this in the release version.
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post #202 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 08:46 AM
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I noticed an earlier post (either here or on another forum) complaining about the fact that the current crop of touch screen monitors for PCs have the "edge" burried by the edge of the screen. This makes the metro UI difficult if not impossible to work with by touch on the PC. I find that I have to use either the mouse or keyboard shourtcuts to access the features that would be available to a tablet or phone user. Hopefully there will be a way to correct this in the release version.

It is me. Microsoft is very proud of this feature (a few pixels off the edge of the screen). So I don't think there will be any changes to this. In addition, Microsoft already released hardware requirements/guide lines for PC manufacturers for Win8 last year. One of the requirement is that touch screen must be flush/flat in order to support the edge gestures.

So, instead you will see a new breed of Windows 8 certified/compatible touch screen monitors coming to market later this year.
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post #203 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 09:30 AM
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For anyone interested, the Win 8 consumer preview installed and ran XBMC Eden RC2 perfectly and migrated settings without issue.

I would add the following to the list as well:

1) VLC 2
2) Boxee
3) Hulu Desktop

I created W8 on a partition on my HTPC. With the impressive performance so far (atleast from HTPC standpoint), I d like to continue with W8
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post #204 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 10:12 AM
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I think people should realize that the more you use a PC , the more likely you will find Win8 a bit of a bear. However I gave a young person a Samsung series 7 slate loaded with Win 8 and the iPad faded as they got into the social networks with metro apps and when they then discovered they could do what their laptop could do, you should of seen the smile. This is way cool. Gestures are just round the corner (Kinect), so wait till you’re waving your hands like a mad man to get stuff to work, however gesture for a HTPC might be cool ( imagine Dad “Who changed the channel ?” , Son “sorry it was a fly on my food”). Anyway I'm going to load it on a partition on my gaming PC and see how the games COD , BF3 perform. I've heard Win8 increases FPS considerably.
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post #205 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyLR View Post

I was strongly disliking the new UI most of the weekend until my IT son came over and showed me some navigation tricks. Now I can see how it will probably work well as as a tablet and phone OS but still be usable in the desktop and HTPC world.

What Win8 may be bringing that may be significant to us HTPC users, are some modest performance improvements. We just might be able to get along with lower horsepower rigs instead of having to ramp them up with the new OS. I saw this post today on SemiAccurate.

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/03/05/a...sumer-preview/

But that's only "semi-accurate".

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post #206 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 10:24 AM
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I think people should realize that the more you use a PC , the more likely you will find Win8 a bit of a bear. However I gave a young person a Samsung series 7 slate loaded with Win 8 and the iPad faded as they got into the social networks with metro apps and when they then discovered they could do what their laptop could do, you should of seen the smile. This is way cool. Gestures are just round the corner (Kinect), so wait till you're waving your hands like a mad man to get stuff to work, however gesture for a HTPC might be cool ( imagine Dad Who changed the channel ? , Son sorry it was a fly on my food). Anyway I'm going to load it on a partition on my gaming PC and see how the games COD , BF3 perform. I've heard Win8 increases FPS considerably.

My Samsung Galaxy Nexus with Android has been a great deal of fun in the few days I've had it. I needed the larger screen (than my previous, a Droid Incredible) because of coordination difficulties. Perhaps 8 for tabs and cell are too late on the scene. I can see how anyone, but especially the young, would add a tablet perhaps replacing their notebook with it. Typing is problematic but adding a keyboard solves that.
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post #207 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 10:30 AM
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Android and iOS tablets are merely consumption devices these days. Real works, the one that get you paid, still require a notebook or desktop because the apps for them are not available on these tablets.

The draw for Win8 tablet is that it can run those productivity software that other tablet's can't (think full office suite). Microsoft, regardless of its market share slide, owns the enterprise market.

I have an Android tablet (GTab 10.1) and it is mostly my kid's gaming device. I found very little use of it. Android tablet is a total fail. ICS won't save it.
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post #208 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 10:35 AM
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I politely disagree. Chances are that a "full office suite" won't run on Windows 8 tablets in the near future. That's the sort of use that I am keeping my Windows 7 desktop for.
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post #209 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 10:36 AM
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The start menu hasn't gone anywhere...is simply is a full screen start menu that happens to be called metro.

I have windows 8 on my main desktop computer...and it hasnt slowed me down at all compared to windows 7, in fact it has made me faster. I barely see the metro UI...just like I barely see the start menu in windows 7. Everything else about 8 is an evolutionary step forward...but a very good one. The task manager is better, the file browser is better, the system is more stable and a little quicker than windows 7. Dont like the metro UI? Not a problem...I haven't even seen it yet today and I have been on windows 8 programming and web browsing all day.
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post #210 of 462 Old 03-05-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

I politely disagree. Chances are that a "full office suite" won't run on Windows 8 tablets in the near future. That's the sort of use that I am keeping my Windows 7 desktop for.

You're mistaken. Next version of Office has been developed in parallel for Win8 and there is even an arm version of it. So, when you get a arm version of Win8 tablet, you get full suite of office on it at the same time(it could also be the only non-metro app you can use on that tablet as other desktop apps need to be re-compiled to support arm).

It is not coincident that Microsoft also recently clarified that it won't release Office suite app for iPad after all.
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