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post #1 of 31 Old 03-11-2012, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I ripped a few more movies out of my BRD collection yesterday. As usual I grabbed all English subs. I have to watch all subs to get translated language such as Japoneese in Kill Bill.

If I only grab the forced subs will that make it such that it will only play the translation subs?

Should I use something else to create my mkv's?

I'm using MPC-HC and only one sub stream is available even if both are selected in MakeMKV.

Should I use MCE with Vobsub renderer instead?

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post #2 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'm just wondering if anybody knows the answer to my question. Getting forced only subs to play/render has been an issue I've been trying to resolve for a while now.

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post #3 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 03:47 PM
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Forced subs are the ones you want. Have you tried just selecting them?
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post #4 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Well no, but I want to have the option of the full subtitle stream if need to play it back. I'd like to be able to chose to have that on or off but still have the forced subs play during playback.

Some movies have multiple English subtitle tracks too

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post #5 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Well no, but I want to have the option of the full subtitle stream if need to play it back. I'd like to be able to chose to have that on or off but still have the forced subs play during playback.

Some movies have multiple English subtitle tracks too

Yah I know subs are the painful part of remuxing. It seems nothing is perfect. For me personally english is my first and only language. So I don't really see a situation where I would need the entire sub track.

I have also used anotherac3togui with suprip.
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post #6 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 04:28 PM - Thread Starter
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So you're just taking the forced tracks then?

Sometimes there are situations where I want the full sub stream but it is rare so I want the option. Maybe I'll just have to live with only having the forced.

This came up the other day on Kill Bill. I grabbed all English Subs and had to see them all in order to get the translated languages.

I have used mkvtoolnix too but for some reason when I use that program things seem to get out of sync for me.

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post #7 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 04:40 PM
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In mkvtoolnix you need to manually set the video to 23.976

I only select forced but I have had issues. I'm not sure makemkv can do it right all the time.
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post #8 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

In mkvtoolnix you need to manually set the video to 23.976

I only select forced but I have had issues. I'm not sure makemkv can do it right all the time.

You mentioned this before to me.. HAHA!! I haven't had the time to jack with it since then and that was a couple weeks ago. Thanks for the reminder..

The thing is I'm getting ready to rip my vast Blu-ray library and want to get it right.

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post #9 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I ripped a few more movies out of my BRD collection yesterday. As usual I grabbed all English subs. I have to watch all subs to get translated language such as Japoneese in Kill Bill.

If I only grab the forced subs will that make it such that it will only play the translation subs?

Should I use something else to create my mkv's?

I'm using MPC-HC and only one sub stream is available even if both are selected in MakeMKV.

Should I use MCE with Vobsub renderer instead?

MakeMKV is a little confusing with forced subs. I have ripped movies and checked the forced subs to find its the whole movie in subtitles. If you know the movie has forced subs it becomes trial and error with MakeMKV. Why not rip all subs for your native language then cycle through them to find the right one. Then re-rip with just that one. I had to do that for a couple of movies. I had a lot of trouble with Star Wars Blu-ray.

I would also try another player. MKV can hold multiple subs so I don't know why MPC-HC is only displaying one. I use XBMC and know for sure it will let you cycle through multiple subs.
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post #10 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kneedragger View Post


MakeMKV is a little confusing with forced subs. I have ripped movies and checked the forced subs to find its the whole movie in subtitles. If you know the movie has forced subs it becomes trial and error with MakeMKV. Why not rip all subs for your native language then cycle through them to find the right one. Then re-rip with just that one. I had to do that for a couple of movies. I had a lot of trouble with Star Wars Blu-ray.

I would also try another player. MKV can hold multiple subs so I don't know why MPC-HC is only displaying one. I use XBMC and know for sure it will let you cycle through multiple subs.

This thread has a lot of information on forced subs including Star Wars. The correct forced sub identified by using the subtitle reader is a different track than that determined by makemkv. I'm not sure how accurate or up to date the spreadsheet in that thread is. My point is that I'm about to rip 200 some-odd blu-rays and don't want to watch each one to see if I got it right. Guess I'll rip to iso and go from there. I don't have much time and want to automate this as much as I can.

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post #11 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

This thread has a lot of information on forced subs including Star Wars. The correct forced sub identified by using the subtitle reader is a different track than that determined by makemkv. I'm not sure how accurate or up to date the spreadsheet in that thread is. My point is that I'm about to rip 200 some-odd blu-rays and don't want to watch each one to see if I got it right. Guess I'll rip to iso and go from there. I don't have much time and want to automate this as much as I can.

Ah ISO sucks. Too much space and who wants all that crap. Unless you are just doing movie only. An easy choice would just be to add all the english subs. MPC-HC can definitely support multiple subtitles.
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post #12 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post


Ah ISO sucks. Too much space and who wants all that crap. Unless you are just doing movie only. An easy choice would just be to add all the english subs. MPC-HC can definitely support multiple subtitles.

This brings it back to Kill Bill. I ripped all the english subs (forget now there's 2 or 3 and forced) when playing in MPC-HC I only got the translated Japonese when I enabled the only English sub track available using right click > Subtitles on the pop-up menu.

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post #13 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

My point is that I'm about to rip 200 some-odd blu-rays and don't want to watch each one to see if I got it right. Guess I'll rip to iso and go from there. I don't have much time and want to automate this as much as I can.

Just rip ALL english subtitles, regular and forced -- anywhere you see a regular or forced english subtitle, check it! You can get makemkv to do this automatically if you configure your "favorite language" as english.

Most players will allow you to switch between subtitle tracks in an MKV file. Alternatively, if you find that the default subtitle being selected is not what you want, you can later delete all but the one you want using mkvmerge.
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post #14 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post


Just rip ALL english subtitles, regular and forced -- anywhere you see a regular or forced english subtitle, check it! You can get makemkv to do this automatically if you configure your "favorite language" as english.

Most players will allow you to switch between subtitle tracks in an MKV file. Alternatively, if you find that the default subtitle being selected is not what you want, you can later delete all but the one you want using mkvmerge.

I have it set to English I think. It seems to grab all the forced subs in all languages but not all the main subs automatically then I have to check and uncheck the ones I want and don't want.

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post #15 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 06:14 PM
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DVDfab also has a remux option I believe.

I have directvobsub installed on my htpc. Do you have LAV installed with MPC? I think it can handle subs too. It may just be a set up issue why you only saw one set of subs.

It seems like when I picked full + forced in makemkv in only gave me one sub set. Idk though I haven't needed to worry about subs for a while. There is no perfect answer though just so you know. You may end up with the wrong sub track now and then without confirming each time.
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post #16 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Rather than under Subtitle in the menu I found the switch for selecting the subtitle stream under both Navigate and under Filters> LAV Splitter Source as well in the MPC-HC menu..

Are there any recommendations on what to select in the LAV Splitter Source dialog box?

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post #17 of 31 Old 03-13-2012, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I have it set to English I think. It seems to grab all the forced subs in all languages but not all the main subs automatically then I have to check and uncheck the ones I want and don't want.

Hmmm, maybe I mis-remembered the default behavior. Mine automatically selects all english subtitles (forced and non-forced), but I changed the default selection rule to:

Code:
Anyway, whether it auto-selects them or not, I think your best bet is just to rip with all possible English subtitle boxes checked. You can always remove later if you have to. But I've never needed to -- LAV filters does a pretty good job of selecting the one that I want, and in the very rare case where it does not, I just choose the subtitle stream I want in MPC-HC.
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post #18 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll take a look at that next time I'm ripping a Blu-ray.

Any comments on the settings in MPC-HC for subtitles?

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post #19 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

This thread has a lot of information on forced subs including Star Wars. The correct forced sub identified by using the subtitle reader is a different track than that determined by makemkv. I'm not sure how accurate or up to date the spreadsheet in that thread is. My point is that I'm about to rip 200 some-odd blu-rays and don't want to watch each one to see if I got it right. Guess I'll rip to iso and go from there. I don't have much time and want to automate this as much as I can.

Yeah I read a thread on here about the forced subs for Star Wars, but for one of the movies I had a different experience with MakeMKV. I agree it gets time consuming and you want to make it as fast as possible.

Forced subs are a pain. I have movies were they're burned in and some that aren't.

Good luck with your project. How many movies do you own that really have english forced subs to worry about? I have about 200 movies ripped and roughly 10 - 15 should have forced subs. The majority of your movies you won't even be worrying about subtitles.
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post #20 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kneedragger View Post

Yeah I read a thread on here about the forced subs for Star Wars, but for one of the movies I had a different experience with MakeMKV. I agree it gets time consuming and you want to make it as fast as possible.

Forced subs are a pain. I have movies were they're burned in and some that aren't.

Good luck with your project. How many movies do you own that really have english forced subs to worry about? I have about 200 movies ripped and roughly 10 - 15 should have forced subs. The majority of your movies you won't even be worrying about subtitles.

That's true.. Just a few of them will be a pain in the @$$.

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post #21 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 02:20 PM
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Well I just ripped my KB vol 1/2. What i did was use the ClownBD package twice, sort of. First I ran ClownBD and just selected the English subtitles and no audio or video so it only extracted the subtitles (15min).

I ran the .sub files through BDSUB program in the package which told me track 11 on both discs were the forced subtitles. I then deleted everything and ran ClownBD again and selected the 1080P video, hd audio and subtitle track 11 then chose the bluray+iso option so that i can play using PDVD (45min).

Now i have an iso that shows the forced subtitles automatically and plays through WMC via MyMovies and my new iso is 25gb as opposed to the 49gb of a bluray copy.

I have had no success playing forced subs on bluray mkv within WMC or WMP. When i get a bluray with forced subs I been ripping to main movie iso with the forced track because PDVD will play it and ClownBD will make the track forced for PDVD to recognize it.

I followed this guide:
http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2010...n_bd-mkvmerge/
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post #22 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the link. I'll be checking that out when I get the chance because I'm always looking for ways to simplify the files I rip to HDD.

Last night I did figure out how to get the forced subs to render in kill bill in MPC-HC for mkv's made with makeMKV by tinkering with the settings in MPC-HC.

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post #23 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 09:13 PM
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I'm fairly confused about this myself. What I'd like to get is forced only that'll play automatically of course and also have a full subtitle track that can be turned on or off. Is this possible?

I'm using mpc-hc/madvr/lav for playback.
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post #24 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 10:13 PM
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Here's how I handle subtitles:

Follow Mindbomb's stickied guide at the top of HTPC forum: Advanced MPC-HC Setup Guide. After you've done that, open up MPC-HC. Now go to View, Options, and then select External Filters, from the left side. Double click on LAV Splitter. Under Audio and Subtitles add all of the languages that appear in every movie you own. Mine has the following in both Audio and Subtitles: eng,jpn,spa,spn,fre,ger

Change Subtitle Selection Mode to "Only Forced Subtitles." Put a check mark in the box for "Only with Matching Languages." Hit OK.

Now Click on the section "Keys" on the left side of MPC-HC. Scroll down and click on "Next Audio." Move the menu bar to the right. Click on "App Commands." Select "Media_Channel_Up," or whatever button on your remote control you want to map it to. Do the same for "Next Subtitle," but set the App Command to Media_Channel_Down.

After you rip a movie, using MakeMKV, play the MKV, to determine which subtitles are forced subtitles and which are regular English subtitles. Once you've figured that out, drag and drop the MKV into the program, MKVMerge.

Let's say you have an English language movie with a few lines of dialogue in French. Make sure that the English audio track is marked as English. Set the normal subtitles as English, and make sure that "Forced Flag Track" is set to No. Set the forced subtitles as English, also. But this time, set the "Forced Flag Track" to Yes.

Or let's say you have a Japanese movie with both English and Japanese audio tracks; and it has forced subtitles and normal English subtitles. Make sure the English audio track is marked as English, and that the Japanese audio track is set to Japanese. This next part will seem counter intuitive, but trust me on this. Set the normal English subtitles to Japanese, for the language, and set the "Forced Flag Track" to Yes. Set the forced English subtitles to English, for the language, and also set the "Forced Flag Track" to Yes.

Now whenever you watch a movie, using MPC-HC, it will default to the forced subtitle track. If I want to switch to normal subtitles, I just hit the Channel down button, on my remote. Hitting the same button again, will turn off subtitles. And hitting it a 3rd time, will return it to the forced subtitle track. I can also switch audio tracks using the channel up button.

It sounds like a lot of work, but it's not. It's just a few extra steps. Hope this helps.

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post #25 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 10:23 PM
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^^^ What if you just skipped all that with mkvmerge and just scroll through the subs to find the right one?
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post #26 of 31 Old 03-14-2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

^^^ What if you just skipped all that with mkvmerge and just scroll through the subs to find the right one?

You're right; but with my method, forced subs are enabled by default. I don't mind scrolling through to find the right sub. But what if you have a friend, relative, or spouse, that doesn't want to mess with that or doesn't understand how to scroll through the subs? My setup is friendly toward those that are lazy or less tech savy. This way, they can play movies on there own.

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post #27 of 31 Old 03-15-2012, 02:38 AM
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Is there no way to mark a subtitle track as forced and then get LAV to automatically use that? And if no subtitles are marked forced then default to loading none?

I dont mind going through all my movies to mark/unmark subtitles so long as it doesnt take too long each film

I have around 600mkvs with all audio and all subtitle tracks that the dvd had.

I have tried configurein g the LAV filter as in the MPC sticky (although I use it with the mediaportal player)

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post #28 of 31 Old 03-15-2012, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbentley100 View Post

Is there no way to mark a subtitle track as forced and then get LAV to automatically use that? And if no subtitles are marked forced then default to loading none?

I dont mind going through all my movies to mark/unmark subtitles so long as it doesnt take too long each film

I have around 600mkvs with all audio and all subtitle tracks that the dvd had.

I have tried configurein g the LAV filter as in the MPC sticky (although I use it with the mediaportal player)

Yes

Use mkvmerge. Load the file into the Header Editor and change the track for forced subtitles to 'forced', then save (avoids having to remix each file). Make sure LAV Filters are setup to use 'Forced Subtitles Only' and also go to MP Config/Videos/Subtitle (tab) and select MPC-HC as the subtitle engine and under options on the same tab choose 'Subtitles will only display forced subtitles'

The MPC-HC subtitle engine is the only option in MP if you want 'forced' subtitle recognition.
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post #29 of 31 Old 03-15-2012, 04:13 AM
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perfect thank you I will give that a try when next home

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post #30 of 31 Old 03-15-2012, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Sweet! You guys keep talking! I'm listening and learning a lot!! Some of this info needs to be incorporated into the first couple posts in the Advanced MPC-HC sticky if it isn't already there and I just didn't find / see it.

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