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post #31 of 50 Old 04-14-2012, 09:50 AM
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You probably need to install the DDR3 sticks in a certain method to run 4 channel.

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post #32 of 50 Old 04-14-2012, 10:43 AM
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I think this is a bit overkill.

You could make a nice i7 2700k for half the price or even a third the price.

$199 for an i7 2700k is a better value and the CPU is a beast. More than you need.

I doubt you need LGA2011 either...

===Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K===

Interesting I've gone the other way, looking for 65W, 35W CPUs.
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post #33 of 50 Old 04-14-2012, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You probably need to install the DDR3 sticks in a certain method to run 4 channel.

yea... its color coded, I think... I went with the red slots as that is what I think the instructions said to do...

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post #34 of 50 Old 04-14-2012, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
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===Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K===

Interesting I've gone the other way, looking for 65W, 35W CPUs.

where is the fun in that?

note: if this were for a HTPC, yea, I would went with a low power i3... I really like the i3's... good bang/$$$

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #35 of 50 Old 04-14-2012, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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welp, it figures...
I just get done with my upgrade and they come out with something newer/cooler...






Computer Built Using Swarms Of Soldier Crabs
curious how you overclock this though... give them some meth?

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #36 of 50 Old 04-14-2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

where is the fun in that?

note: if this were for a HTPC, yea, I would went with a low power i3... I really like the i3's... good bang/$$$

for HTPC you can just get a 38$ G530 CPU and be fine.

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post #37 of 50 Old 04-14-2012, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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for HTPC you can just get a 38$ G530 CPU and be fine.

but where is the overkill/fun factor in that?

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #38 of 50 Old 04-15-2012, 07:30 AM
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but where is the overkill/fun factor in that?

True.

But if your like many of us... You have a main PC you go silly on...

And a few basic PC's that just perform the basics

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post #39 of 50 Old 04-15-2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

where is the fun in that?

note: if this were for a HTPC, yea, I would went with a low power i3... I really like the i3's... good bang/$$$

I have an i3 and it's done everything I want it to do. I'm using the video on the processor -- no separate video card. I don't game, though. I use my computer for work and for HT.

Bob
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post #40 of 50 Old 04-15-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

where is the fun in that?

note: if this were for a HTPC, yea, I would went with a low power i3... I really like the i3's... good bang/$$$

Yes, most of these are hooked up to TVs. Getting them to be as quiet as possible is the fun.

I do have an i7 and I can't really see the difference playing games between i7 and i3s. Have all those fans whinning just feels old, like a DLP TV.

So current goal is low power.
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post #41 of 50 Old 04-30-2012, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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just a quick update...
first went through and played deus ex again...there were no 'load times' between levels/areas... but then I was told that wasn't a good game to use to test out my new rig...
so I went and installed half life... that worked good too... but again, apparently that wasn't a good test case either...
so now I have Half life 2 running, and that works great also...
ok, so I may not be quite up to date on the gaming scene, but the original Deus Ex was an awesome game for its time...
and well, HL is HL...



anyway, been randomly installing a bunch of crap and all... so when exactly is my SF SSD suppose to explode?

anyway, I must say I really am pretty impressed with the PCIe attached SSD's... seems very zippy... works quite nicely really...
but not very power friendly at 13.5W idle....
damn... a spiny HDD is probably less...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #42 of 50 Old 04-30-2012, 10:25 AM
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Your Sandforce drive is supposed to explode soon.

Soon.

lol.

Just kidding.

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post #43 of 50 Old 06-07-2012, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Your Sandforce drive is supposed to explode soon.

so, just a quick update, still no explosions, still no BSOD, still no random disappearing.... actually nothing bad has happened at all...
if sandforce is so bad, and OCZ so crappy, WHY hasn't anything bad happened yet?

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post #44 of 50 Old 06-08-2012, 09:09 AM
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so, just a quick update, still no explosions, still no BSOD, still no random disappearing.... actually nothing bad has happened at all...
if sandforce is so bad, and OCZ so crappy, WHY hasn't anything bad happened yet?

lol.

Just wait.

Your house will burn down any minute now.

You should have gotten a slower, worse performing, less reliable and more expensive Crucial M4. Didn't you know better?

Your foolish to get a faster/cheaper/better drive. It could potentially ruin your life.

Not worth the risk IMO.

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post #45 of 50 Old 06-08-2012, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

so, just a quick update, still no explosions, still no BSOD, still no random disappearing.... actually nothing bad has happened at all...
if sandforce is so bad, and OCZ so crappy, WHY hasn't anything bad happened yet?

You know, most of them work, and the October update fixed most of them that didn't, but this isn't an internet myth or anything. Sandforce and OCZ both publicly acknowledged the problem. It's quite real.
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post #46 of 50 Old 06-08-2012, 09:42 AM
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You know, most of them work, and the October update fixed most of them that didn't, but this isn't an internet myth or anything. Sandforce and OCZ both publicly acknowledged the problem. It's quite real.

Oh yes. Everyone knows it was real.

It's just that it's blown way out of proportion today than it needs to be.

I read interesting article today on Anandtech btw...

It reviewed a Sandforce that was 128GB instead of 120GB. Something about the firmware for overhead being turned off.. I will look for it.

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post #47 of 50 Old 06-08-2012, 09:44 AM
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Oh yes. Everyone knows it was real.
It's just that it's blown way out of proportion today than it needs to be.
I read interesting article today on Anandtech btw...
It reviewed a Sandforce that was 128GB instead of 120GB. Something about the firmware for overhead being turned off.. I will look for it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5710/the-adata-xpg-sx900-128gb-review-maximizing-sandforce-capacity

SandForce sets aside more NAND capacity than most controllers for spare area. While Intel, Marvell, Samsung and others default to ~7% of total NAND capacity for spare area, SandForce is almost double that. The difference boils down to RAISE, SandForce's NAND redundancy algorithm that requires the consumption of a full NAND die. The original idea was that RAISE and SandForce's DuraWrite technology could allow SSD vendors to use cheaper, less reliable NAND without any impact to the end user. It seems as though no one was willing to risk using anything but the best NAND, so we never really saw this feature exploited. A bit over a month ago, ADATA released their XPG SX900 series. It utilizes the oh-so-common SF-2281 controller but unlike other SandForce SSDs, RAISE is disabled - giving the end user more usable space.

When an SSD is marketed as for example 120GB, it must have 120GB of usable space (before formatting, of course). However, the advertised capacity does not always reflect the raw NAND capacity. Both 120GB and 128GB SSDs actually have 128GiB of NAND onboard. Notice that GB and GiB are not the same. As these two are easily confused with one and another, let's revisit the topic quickly.

Giga is a prefix for billion or 10^9. That means one Gigabyte is 1,000,000,000 bytes. Gibi, on the other hand, is a prefix for 1024^3, or 2^30. Do the math and one Gibibyte works out to be 1,073,741,824 bytes. The confusing part here is that Windows uses Gibibytes for capacities but with the GB abbreviation. (As an aside, Microsoft and others have used "GB" for 2^30 some time, and "Gibibytes" and the other binary SI prefixes only came into being in 1998.) That's why we often say Gigabytes although we really mean Gibibytes. Under Windows, a 128GB SSD is actually shown as a 119GB drive, although in reality it's 119GiB.

As SSDs capacities are advertised in Gigabytes, there is always some "hidden" space thanks to Gigabyte to Gibibyte translation. A 120GB SandForce SSD has ~17.4GB or 12.7% of space that is inaccessible by the end-user. What is that space used for then? Two words: RAISE and over-provisioning.

RAISE (Redundant Array of Independent Silicon Elements) uses the capacity of one NAND die (8GiB for 2x-nm NAND) for parity data. Hence you can lose up to a full NAND package worth of data without losing anything from the user's standpoint. While RAISE is optional, all SandForce SSD manufacturers have enabled it on +120GB drives thus far. 60GB SSDs have RAISE disabled because the user accessible space would be only ~56GB with 8GiB for RAISE and ~7% for over-provisioning.

RAISE2.jpg

et's illustrate this situation by looking at how the space in a 120GB SSD is used. RAISE needs a full NAND die so that's 8GiB which needs to be substracted from the raw 128GiB. We are at 120GiB now. As 120GB is user accessible space, that needs to be substracted as well, which means the space left for over-provisioning is ~8.8GB or 6.9%.

So, now we know how the space in a typical SandForce SSD is allocated, but what exactly has ADATA disabled or decreased to achieve a higher capacity? An SSD cannot work without over-provisioning because it would have no space to do garbage collection, wear leveling, and bad block replacement. 0% OP is impossible as the drive could not function if it was filled. That leaves us with RAISE. ADATA has simply disabled RAISE to gain the extra 8GiB and make 8GB of it user accessible (the remaining ~0.6GB is used for OP to keep the OP percentage the same).

And that's it. There are no extra tricks, no extra NAND onboard, and no special controller or other magic. All SF-2200 series controllers support a RAISE-disabled mode, and ADATA is simply the first one to employ it on a drive larger than 64GB. This actually brings us to the next question: What has ADATA done with the 64GB drive?

60GB SandFroce drives already have RAISE disabled because with 8GiB for RAISE and 7% for OP, the usable capacity and hence advertised size would only be 56GB. When RAISE is disabled, there is actually 12.7% left for OP on a 60GB SF drive. ADATA has simply decreased the amount of space dedicated to OP to 7%, which yields a usable capacity of 64GB (or 63.9GB to be exact).

According to SandForce, RAISE is not even necessary for consumer workloads and the built-in 55-bit BCH ECC engine should be effective enough for error correcting. Personally, I would rather lose a small proportion of capacity to prevent potential data loss, but everyone's point of view is different. In my opinion, if you need the extra capacity that one NAND package provides, then your SSD is too small to begin with. It's always a pain in the neck to deal with a drive that's nearly full, especially if it's your boot drive.

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post #48 of 50 Old 06-08-2012, 09:47 AM
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Wondering if the above means that a Sandforce drive is more reliable over longer period of time than a competitor ???

I mean- it's common sense that if a Sandforce drive as twice as much reserve memory chips available to replace chips that go defective over time- it might last longer?? Yes?

That is why a Sandforce drive is 120GB and others are 128.

the 8GB is extra reserve set aside. It has just as much inside the drive- but twice as much is set aside for reserve. Since as Nand goes bad.. it cab be replaced with reserve and capacity is preserved and not lost. Also- reliability of data is preserved too.

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post #49 of 50 Old 06-08-2012, 10:06 AM
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Darn. Won't be able to tell the Sandforces just by looking at the size any more.
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post #50 of 50 Old 06-13-2012, 12:39 PM
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Darn. Won't be able to tell the Sandforces just by looking at the size any more.

Well a 120GB or 60GB size will probably be an automatic Sandforce... since the missing GB are just reserved as backup.

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