seemed it might be a good time to upgrade my desktop a bit... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 04-01-2012, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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so I started thinking it may be a good time to 'freshen up' my desktop a bit...
while none of this is quite up to Mfusick's standards, as I wanted to control costs a bit...
but I still would like peoples opinions on if I picked out some total wrong bits & pieces... or if I missed some better deals..

GIGABYTE GV-R695OC-1GD Radeon HD 6950 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) Desktop Memory Model F3-19200CL11Q-16GBZHD
Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8GHz Turbo) LGA 2011 130W Six-Core Desktop Processor BX80619i73930K
OCZ RevoDrive 3 X2 series RVD3X2-FHPX4-240G PCI-E 240GB PCI-Express 2.0 x4 MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
ASUS RAMPAGE IV EXTREME - LGA2011 - X79 - 8x DIMM - PCIe 3.0 Motherboards
Noctua 6 Dual Heatpipe with 140mm/120mm Dual SSO Bearing Fans CPU Cooler NH-D14 - Retail

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post #2 of 50 Old 04-01-2012, 11:12 PM
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The intel i5-2400S quad-core is rated at 65W TDP and can drive 1080p with only HD2000 onboard graphics.

I wanted to try the even lower power DN2800MT dual core Atom motherboard.
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post #3 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 09:24 AM
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Core i7 is overkill unless you're doing major video transcoding. I'd go with the cheapest dual-core Sandy Bridge you can get. I believe right now that's the Celeron G530.

Radeon 6950 is also major overkill unless you're playing the latest 3D games on their highest settings. The video built into the Sandy Bridge chips is plenty for HTPC duties. The Radeon is just going to add heat and noise.
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post #4 of 50 Old 04-02-2012, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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this is for my desktop, with limited HTPC duties...
  • CAD
  • CAM
  • Games
  • Ripping cd/dvd/hddvd/br/etc
  • some video playing...

but no transcoding... transcoding is evil...
I currently have an older i5... it just isn't cutting it anymore... I think the above components should boost the speed just a bit...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #5 of 50 Old 04-03-2012, 02:32 AM
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You've picked a higher end enthusiast motherboard and cpu, but a last generation video card. Is there any reason you didn't want to go with a 7000 series video card? I'm just curious as most of the enthusiast people I know get a current generation gpu when they build a new machine as they tend to run the larger resolutions.
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post #6 of 50 Old 04-03-2012, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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actually, I ended up getting a GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) HD 2560MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 card...
it should be good enough for what I am after... mostly I just need raw computing power... fancy 3d graphics are nice for games, and I want a card that can do something... but I don't actually need a bleeding edge/top of the line/big $$ card...
ended up with a nvidia as I realized that while I don't hate AMD/ATI graphics cards or anything, it just seems like AMD/ATI just can't come up with a decent set of drivers...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #7 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 05:49 PM
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Let us know how the Revodrive works out. I don't think anyone other than Intel has the issues with the Sandforce controllers used on this drive worked out yet.
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post #8 of 50 Old 04-04-2012, 06:58 PM
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Does CAD take that much memory?
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post #9 of 50 Old 04-12-2012, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Does CAD take that much memory?

no clue...
I just remember back in the 'good old days' when 128MB was huge and more ram than anyone could possibly use, they always said 'cad benefited from more ram'... well now its got lots of ram

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post #10 of 50 Old 04-12-2012, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

Let us know how the Revodrive works out. I don't think anyone other than Intel has the issues with the Sandforce controllers used on this drive worked out yet.

seems to work flawlessly...
its actually a very nice drive all things (other than cost) considered...

I am really starting to wonder how much of that "Sandforce evil bugs/flaws" thing is real, and how much is just pure FUD?

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #11 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Does CAD take that much memory?

3D CAD certainly does. Not sure what program he is using, but 3D CAD workstations have a lot of RAM and non-consumer level video cards (nvidia quadro). However, you could probably run something simple like AutoCAD on a HTPC level PC without much issue.

One thing I've noticed is that if you do CAD at work the last thing you want to do is more CAD at home...

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post #12 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

seems to work flawlessly...
its actually a very nice drive all things (other than cost) considered...

I am really starting to wonder how much of that "Sandforce evil bugs/flaws" thing is real, and how much is just pure FUD?

Agreed .

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post #13 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bryansj View Post

One thing I've noticed is that if you do CAD at work the last thing you want to do is more CAD at home...

I don't actually do CAD at work, or even for work... I actually try to avoid the CAD part as much as possible... (note, I am just referring to "real" CAD here... I do use OrCAD at work, but that's not really the same thing...)

it is the CAM part I actually like (as a hobby, still not work)... ie getting some tool paths setup so I can go play with machining something on my little CNC router...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #14 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Agreed .

with what part?
that revo drives are pretty zippy?
or that the whole sandforce thing seems to be ~80% FUD?

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #15 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious View Post

Core i7 is overkill unless you're doing major video transcoding.

Well, I'd normally agree, that even for a desktop an i7 is overkill, but, as you often have to do, you have to add an "unless you live near a Micro Center" exception to this rule. Right now they are selling the i7-2600k for $199.95. Since that's $120 less than Newegg charges, and is less than what most places charge for the i5s, I say go the i7 if you want overkill.

(although, if you're already going to a Micro Center, you still might choose to save $50 and get an i5-2400 for $149.99 and probably be perfectly happy, or take advantage of their "buy an i5-2500k for $179.99 and get $50 off a Z68 motherboard" deal and be even happier)
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post #16 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Well, I'd normally agree, that even for a desktop an i7 is overkill, but, as you often have to do, you have to add an "unless you live near a Micro Center" exception to this rule. Right now they are selling the i7-2700k for $199.95. Since that's $120 less than Newegg charges, and is less than what most places charge for the i5s, I say go the i7 if you want overkill.

(although, if you're already going to a Micro Center, you still might choose to save $50 and get an i5-2400 for $149.99 and probably be perfectly happy, or take advantage of their "buy an i5-2500k for $179.99 and get $50 off a Z68 motherboard" deal and be even happier)

That's a hard deal to refuse. i7 for $199. I paid $299 for my 2600k and thought I got a deal... lol

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post #17 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

I am really starting to wonder how much of that "Sandforce evil bugs/flaws" thing is real, and how much is just pure FUD?

It's not all Sandforce, just the SF2281 controller, and it's definitely real. It's even been acknowledged by Sandforce and the drive manufacturers.

The question isn't whether the problem exists, it's whether the October 2011 firmware update solved it. This, however, is what Anandtech wrote in February of this year in reviewing the Intel 520:

"The BSOD is Back, but Not on Intel

Back in October SandForce announced that it had discovered a firmware issue that resulted in unexpected BSODs on SF-2281 drives on certain platforms. Why it took SandForce several months to discover the bug that its customers had been reporting for a while is a separate issue entirely. SandForce quickly pushed out the firmware to OCZ and other partners. Our own internal testing revealed that the updated firmware seemed to have cured the infamous BSOD. . . .

The BSOD is caused by a bug in SandForce's power state logic that ultimately results in the drive disconnecting from the system while it's running. It turns out that Windows isn't a fan of you hot un-plugging the drive it's running on, which results in the BSOD. We had two systems that exhibited the BSOD, both of which were fixed by the update last October.

As luck would have it, our own Brian Klug happened to come across an unexpected crash with his 240GB non-Intel SF-2281 based SSD two weeks ago when he migrated it to another machine. The crash was an F4 BSOD, similar in nature to the infamous BSOD issue from last year. While two of the systems we reproduced the BSOD bug on were cured by last year's firmware update, Brian's system (an X58/Core i7 build) was BSODing regularly playing Battlefield 3. Games end up being a great way to trigger the SF-2281 BSOD issue as they frequently switch between periods of idle and load, which does a good job of stressing the power state logic in SandForce's firmware. I immediately sent Brian an Intel SSD 520 to see if the BSOD remained on Intel's drive. Switching to Cherryville caused Brian's BSODs to go away. Indeed most end user reports of SF-2281 BSODs went away with the fixed firmware, but we've still heard of isolated issues that remain unresolved. Whatever Intel has done with the 520's firmware seems to have fixed problems that still remain in the general SF-2281 firmware.

This is actually a dangerous precedent as it means one of two things. The first possibility is that SandForce has been made aware of flaws in its current firmware and chooses against (or is legally prevented from) disclosing it to its partners. The second possibility, and arguably even worse for SandForce, is that Intel was able to identify and fix a bug in the SF-2281 firmware without SandForce knowing it existed or was addressed. I suspect it's the former but as no one is willing to go on the record about the Intel/SandForce agreement I can't be certain."


Fixes that Intel found (it actually delayed release for nearly a year while it validated the SF2281 based Cherryville) won't necessarily show up in your non-Intel drive though. Anandtech also reported:

"Intel's strenuous validation will eventually make SandForce's drives better for everyone, but for now the Cherryville firmware remains exclusive. Intel wouldn't go on record with details of its arrangement with SandForce, but from what I've managed to piece together the Intel Cherryville firmware is exclusive for a limited period of time. That exclusivity agreement likely expires sometime after the SF-2281 is replaced by a 3rd generation controller. There are some loopholes that allow SandForce to port bug fixes to general partner firmware but the specific terms aren't public information. The important takeaway is anything fixed in Intel's firmware isn't necessarily going to be fixed in other SF-2281 based drives in the near term. "

So Mfusick swears by them, but you need to assess the risk and make your own decision. Personally, there are enough good alternatives that I see no reason to mess with it. I buy Samsung or Marvell-based SATA III SSDs. I have no problem with Sandforce based SATA IIs.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5508/i...y-to-sandforce
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post #18 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somewhatlost View Post

with what part?
that revo drives are pretty zippy?
or that the whole sandforce thing seems to be ~80% FUD?

The whole sandforce thing...


I noticed that it's just "cool" and "popular" to hate on Sandforce and to a lesser degree OCZ (because of the Sandforce thing and they were the first major player with new controller)

Most of it's garbage.

Almost all the people I hear beat up on both Sandforce and OCZ never even owned a product- decided to purchase something else- and then feel strongly to defend their own purchase decision by claiming a non sandforce controller is better or more reliable.

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post #19 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

The whole sandforce thing...


I noticed that it's just "cool" and "popular" to hate on Sandforce and to a lesser degree OCZ (because of the Sandforce thing and they were the first major player with new controller)

Most of it's garbage.

Almost all the people I hear beat up on both Sandforce and OCZ never even owned a product- decided to purchase something else- and then feel strongly to defend their own purchase decision by claiming a non sandforce controller is better or more reliable.

The only problem with that logic is that Sandforce itself acknowledged the existence of the problem. I suppose they were just being "cool" in "hating on" their own product?
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post #20 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 08:11 AM
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The only problem with that logic is that Sandforce itself acknowledged the existence of the problem. I suppose they were just being "cool" in "hating on" their own product?

But the problem effects a very small percentage of motherboards and product combos- and they can not even duplicate it in testing in the lab.

I have 12 OCZ sandforce drives on 5 different combo's of motherboards and products and none of them have an issue.

I also own the same motherboard, CPU, (Asrock +G620) with both a Crucial 64GB and a Vertex3 60GB being the only differences.

Consistently- the Vertex will benchmark faster. They are side by side in operation.

If I get a chance I will take a picture. I think it will give further credit to my claims.

The problem is near non existent. It's like people worrying over a ghost.



How do you feel about the new Vertex4? It's a marvel controller like you love so much in the Crucial. Only OCZ has a proprietary firmware that outperforms the Crucial variant considerably.

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post #21 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

But the problem effects a very small percentage of motherboards and product combos- and they can not even duplicate it in testing in the lab.

I have 12 OCZ sandforce drives on 5 different combo's of motherboards and products and none of them have an issue.

I also own the same motherboard, CPU, (Asrock +G620) with both a Crucial 64GB and a Vertex3 60GB being the only differences.

Consistently- the Vertex will benchmark faster. They are side by side in operation.

If I get a chance I will take a picture. I think it will give further credit to my claims.

The problem is near non existent. It's like people worrying over a ghost.



How do you feel about the new Vertex4? It's a marvel controller like you love so much in the Crucial. Only OCZ has a proprietary firmware that outperforms the Crucial variant considerably.

I understand all that. Most people never experienced the problem even before the "fix" and reportedly most people that did have the problem saw it go away with the "fix." So it's a very small risk, but I don't see any "reward" in return for accepting that "risk" however small other than sometimes saving a few $$$. Personally, I just choose not mess with it when there are perfectly fine alternatives. And I don't buy that there is the slightest speed difference in real life. The benchmarks are lab measurements that are meaningless in real use. Heck, I have a variety of sizes and types and I don't notice in actual use differences between different sizes of drives, or even between SATA 3 and 6 gbs, both of which present bigger differences in benchmark performance than between Sandforce and Marvell controllers. The big difference is between hard disk and SSD. The differences between SSDs in real use are unnoticeable, at least to me. I don't worry about running benchmarks on any of them. I just worry about how well they work for me.

It's a perfectly valid choice for someone to jump on a great deal and accept the tiny risk of a problem. I've just personally chosen not to do so. People just ought to understand the situation though. Denying it exists isn't fair to anyone any more than is blowing it out of proportion.

I haven't tried the Vertex 4, and I still have a couple of spares waiting for installation, so I'm not currently in the market to buy a new one.

EDIT - let me just say this one more time. I have nothing against OCZ. I just personally choose not to buy SF2281 based drives of any make. It's been the single most persistant issue affecting any SSDs for the past couple of years. Why bother with it is my view.
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post #22 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 08:46 AM
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I haven't tried the Vertex 4, and I still have a couple of spares waiting for installation, so I'm not currently in the market to buy a new one.

I have not tried it either but it looks nice.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...ilinx_firmware

here is a more detailed link:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Oct...ler,15304.html

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post #23 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 08:57 AM
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http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...mark,3172.html

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post #24 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I have not tried it either but it looks nice.

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/new...ilinx_firmware

here is a more detailed link:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Oct...ler,15304.html

That's interesting news that the Indilinx controller isn't really an Indilinx controller but is a Marvell controller with Indilinx firmware.

Also intersting that they can squeeze more performance out by overclocking some parts and with new firmware.

Of course, that introduces the opportunity for new bugs, and there have been some complaints about the Petrol drives. But this is certainly worth watching. I'll look forward to some in depth tests.

I was actually kind of hoping there would be some new controllers on the marketand was hoping the Everest succeeded. But right now, as SATA IIIs completely take over, if you put Samsung aside, there are basically only two. A little more variety would be good for innovation and probably for pricing too.
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post #25 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

That's interesting news that the Indilinx controller isn't really an Indilinx controller but is a Marvell controller with Indilinx firmware.

Also intersting that they can squeeze more performance out by overclocking some parts and with new firmware.

Of course, that introduces the opportunity for new bugs, and there have been some complaints about the Petrol drives. But this is certainly worth watching. I'll look forward to some in depth tests.

I was actually kind of hoping there would be some new controllers on the marketand was hoping the Everest succeeded. But right now, as SATA IIIs completely take over, if you put Samsung aside, there are basically only two. A little more variety would be good for innovation and probably for pricing too.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5719/o...ew-256gb-512gb

here is another review:

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post #26 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

The whole sandforce thing...


I noticed that it's just "cool" and "popular" to hate on Sandforce and to a lesser degree OCZ (because of the Sandforce thing and they were the first major player with new controller)

Most of it's garbage.

Almost all the people I hear beat up on both Sandforce and OCZ never even owned a product- decided to purchase something else- and then feel strongly to defend their own purchase decision by claiming a non sandforce controller is better or more reliable.

I avoid sandforce now just cause I don't want to take risks. I had an SSD w/ a sandforce controller die. I also have another that is still working - but seems like it's acting up after I put in in my Z68 bases system.

I also have about 4 OCZ ssds, but have since moved on to different brands cause I want different controllers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

That's interesting news that the Indilinx controller isn't really an Indilinx controller but is a Marvell controller with Indilinx firmware.

Also intersting that they can squeeze more performance out by overclocking some parts and with new firmware.

Of course, that introduces the opportunity for new bugs, and there have been some complaints about the Petrol drives. But this is certainly worth watching. I'll look forward to some in depth tests.

I was actually kind of hoping there would be some new controllers on the marketand was hoping the Everest succeeded. But right now, as SATA IIIs completely take over, if you put Samsung aside, there are basically only two. A little more variety would be good for innovation and probably for pricing too.

Seems kinda odd. Did OCZ just buy Indilinx for their IP?
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post #27 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 03:42 PM
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I think this is a bit overkill.

You could make a nice i7 2700k for half the price or even a third the price.

$199 for an i7 2700k is a better value and the CPU is a beast. More than you need.

I doubt you need LGA2011 either...

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post #28 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I think this is a bit overkill.

You could make a nice i7 2700k for half the price or even a third the price.

$199 for an i7 2700k is a better value and the CPU is a beast. More than you need.

I doubt you need LGA2011 either...

too late, its built, I am using it...

pretty happy with end results... may not be good bang/$$$ but it sure has a fun bang...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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post #29 of 50 Old 04-13-2012, 05:58 PM
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too late, its built, I am using it...

pretty happy with end results... may not be good bang/$$$ but it sure has a fun bang...

That's the most overkill build I seen on this forum.

That counts for something.

Excess is sometimes good for no reason other than being too much

You sure have room to grow.

You have it running 4 channel on the DDR?

LGA2011 has like 18 bazillion Trillion lanes-- You can certainly move lots of data with it.

What do you use it for ?

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post #30 of 50 Old 04-14-2012, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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That's the most overkill build I seen on this forum.

That counts for something.

Excess is sometimes good for no reason other than being too much

sometimes overkill, or even just because, is the whole point

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You have it running 4 channel on the DDR?

you know, I am not entirely sure... I think so...
I do have 4 4G sticks in it...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

LGA2011 has like 18 bazillion Trillion lanes-- You can certainly move lots of data with it.

What do you use it for ?

currently I have only used it for surf'n the net (mostly avs) and installing crap...

NOTE: As one wise professional something once stated, I am ignorant & childish, with a mindset comparable to 9/11 troofers and wackjob conspiracy theorists. so don't take anything I say as advice...
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