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post #91 of 106 Old 06-05-2014, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Entirely depends on how you tweak your TV's settings, this was already answered by the capt. above. The video stream you see is exactly what was delivered by your cable or OTA provider.

Not necessarily. There are rendering, deinterlacing and scaling steps involved. So the TV settings are hugely important but if the deinterlacing and scaling is second rate, the whole things is messy. I use outboard video processing. Which produces a much better image. Even then you can have motion issues during horizontal pans that are graphic processor related.

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post #92 of 106 Old 06-05-2014, 01:48 PM
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What type of outboard video processing? A separate hardware device or through the HTPC before it arrives at the xbox 360s? 

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post #93 of 106 Old 06-07-2014, 08:12 AM
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I am just very worried that it will look like I'm running it off of an xbox or a pc, instead of watching TV (as far as the quality).  Unfortunately no one can really answer this and is instead saying depends on how you tweak the TV?  Obviously a TV picture can be tweaked, but I am asking about the quality of the video being sent from the HTPC to these extenders.  

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post #94 of 106 Old 06-07-2014, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ebase131 View Post

I am just very worried that it will look like I'm running it off of an xbox or a pc, instead of watching TV (as far as the quality).  Unfortunately no one can really answer this and is instead saying depends on how you tweak the TV?  Obviously a TV picture can be tweaked, but I am asking about the quality of the video being sent from the HTPC to these extenders.  
Of course we can answer. It's 1080p/60. Looks exactly like a cable box or Tivo would look. Quality is not an issue unless you network is crap or your PC video card is crap or you don't know how to calibrate your TV. That's why everyone says it depends. Believe me, very few of us would be doing this if the quality weren't as good or better than a cable box. I certainly wouldn't.

From the looks of this thread, you have a major case of analysis paralysis. Just try it already. What do you have to lose.


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post #95 of 106 Old 06-07-2014, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Ebase131 View Post

What type of outboard video processing? A separate hardware device or through the HTPC before it arrives at the xbox 360s? 

I have a Lumagen Radiance XS doing the deinterlacing and color correction on my HTPC. Then the signal goes to a Darbee Darblet befor the TV. I have a DVDO Edge on one box and a DVDO DUO on another. The TV with the DUO is an older 1366X768 Panasonic Plasma that will not accept its native panel resolution from an external source. It internal scaler works best when fed 1080i 60. So I send 1080P to the DUO Video Process from that HTPC and interlace it back to 1080i which produces the best image on the panel. I also use the DUO to manage image size with it adjustable underscan capability. This produces a far better image on this Panasonic that the PC can do. The scaling in the DVDO DUO while not as good as the Lumagen is much better than the PC. I also have the DUO do color correction here to. In another room I have the DVDO Edge which has the same scaling/deinterlacing hardware as the DUO. All these Devices are also very nice integration hubs with multiple HDMI inputs and outputs.

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post #96 of 106 Old 06-07-2014, 02:40 PM
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Does the darblet really add noticeable clarity to the quality? I'd love to see the difference with and without it as well as any deinterlacing or color correction hardware. I also really dislike the motion flow effect that may be introduced by such devices? 

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post #97 of 106 Old 06-07-2014, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ebase131 View Post

Does the darblet really add noticeable clarity to the quality? I'd love to see the difference with and without it as well as any deinterlacing or color correction hardware. I also really dislike the motion flow effect that may be introduced by such devices? 
No, but the people who buy them think they do. They typically just add distortions that make you think the picture is better. wink.gif


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post #98 of 106 Old 06-07-2014, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

No, but the people who buy them think they do. They typically just add distortions that make you think the picture is better. wink.gif
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

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post #99 of 106 Old 09-02-2014, 07:10 PM
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In my living room i have:

60ZT60 Plasma
Denon 2112ci
Xbox 360
PS3
Time Warner HDDVR
(HTPC being built right now)

All of these are ethernet to a wireless bridge that communicates to my router. The router is in my office and is less than 20' from the wireless bridge and the living room items listed above. I have a very fast computer in the office.

I've read this entire Thread and am still entirely confused. I want to get rid of my TWC HDDVR and go to some sort of cable card. Whats my best option?

If i buy a Prime and put it in the office, wired to the router, can I watch TV in the living room using the just the xbox as an extender, or do I have to have an HTPC in the living room AND an extender(xbox)? Or if i build an HTPC, can I use it by itself without the xbox? Can I also watch TV on my PC in my office with this setup, using WMC? My goal is to be able to watch in both the living room and office on my office PC.

Or, is the Ceton PCI card better for my application and if so, should I install it in my office PC or my HTPC. If the office, then do i need both the HTPC and xbox to watch TV in the living room? If installed in my HTPC, can i then watch TV on my office PC.

Good thing there are no cliffs near my house, cause i'd be jumping

Last edited by Rx4speed; 09-02-2014 at 07:46 PM.
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post #100 of 106 Old 09-02-2014, 10:44 PM
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With TWC you are best to use one computer (somewhere in the house) and multiple extenders (one at each TV) as everything is protected (this may change if comcast takes over but will be years)... If you want to just view live TV on another computer from time to time, that will work too but recording will restrict playback to the computer that recorded it or an extender (xbox 360) connected to that computer. The biggest problem is wireless as UDP is used so you at least want a wired connection from the prime to the computer and you really would want a wired connection from the computer to the extender (same issue but usually isn't as sensitive and at least you got a good recording/live tv buffer)

Edit: in re-reading your post I thought I should answer the questions a little more clearly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rx4speed View Post
If i buy a Prime and put it in the office, wired to the router, can I watch TV in the living room using the just the xbox as an extender
The xbox acts as an extender to the computer so it isn't just the xbox... the computer and xbox can be anywhere on the same network but it is best not to use wireless (depends on environment as it needs a quality connection not just speed)

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Originally Posted by Rx4speed View Post
or do I have to have an HTPC in the living room AND an extender(xbox)?
you need a PC for the xbox (anywhere in the home) and the single PC can serve up to 5 xbox 360 extenders. Whether this computer is your new HTPC or your existing office computer is up to you, I generally find that an i5 or i7 is more than enough for an office computer to serve a few extenders. Remember any recording you make (except locals) will be limited to the computer that made the recording. If you choose to use a dedicated HTPC, you may wish to place it at the TV and have the prime there as well so that they are wired... you will then not need the xbox at that location... however if you watch in the office, you will be using separate tuners and you won't be able to watch the recordings in the office. Or you may wish the HTPC and prime to be in the office and have its own screen to watch TV on... this really depends on what other things you may want the HTPC to do and if it is more practical to be at the main TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rx4speed View Post
Or if i build an HTPC, can I use it by itself without the xbox?
It can be used without an xbox but TWC protects all channels but locals so any recordings will be confined to the computer that recorded it or an extender connected to that computer.

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Originally Posted by Rx4speed View Post
Can I also watch TV on my PC in my office with this setup, using WMC?
Yes. When using extenders connected to that machine, if you are watching the same channel, it only needs one of the tuners... if you are using 2 computers each computer will be using separate tuners even when it is the same channel.

The other thing in your setup is the PS3... this can view directly from the prime without a computer (even protected content... not recordings) however I wouldn't wish anyone to have to live through that interface on a daily basis. Since they now have favorites it is a little better but before, one might have to press the down arrow 500 times to get to any HD programming.

Last edited by signcarver; 09-02-2014 at 11:11 PM.
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post #101 of 106 Old 09-03-2014, 11:09 AM
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From the looks of this thread, you have a major case of analysis paralysis.
I suffer from this QUITE often. Most recently before my purchase\configuration of my current HD HomeRun PRIME last week (which ended up working out awesome).

Quote:
In my living room i have:

60ZT60 Plasma
Denon 2112ci
Xbox 360
PS3
Time Warner HDDVR
(HTPC being built right now)

All of these are ethernet to a wireless bridge that communicates to my router. The router is in my office and is less than 20' from the wireless bridge and the living room items listed above. I have a very fast computer in the office.

I've read this entire Thread and am still entirely confused. I want to get rid of my TWC HDDVR and go to some sort of cable card. Whats my best option?

If i buy a Prime and put it in the office, wired to the router, can I watch TV in the living room using the just the xbox as an extender, or do I have to have an HTPC in the living room AND an extender(xbox)? Or if i build an HTPC, can I use it by itself without the xbox? Can I also watch TV on my PC in my office with this setup, using WMC? My goal is to be able to watch in both the living room and office on my office PC.

Or, is the Ceton PCI card better for my application and if so, should I install it in my office PC or my HTPC. If the office, then do i need both the HTPC and xbox to watch TV in the living room? If installed in my HTPC, can i then watch TV on my office PC.

Good thing there are no cliffs near my house, cause i'd be jumping
I was previously a cord cutter, but forced into TWC again due to the complex I live in (it's part of rent and you have it like it or not). I was looking for the same solution you are. A lot of the responses to questions like yours seem to be answered with over-complicated explanations. I am not sure why, but people have their reasons and I'm not gonna bash anyone else's advice here. Here's my setup for TV (I use WMC for that) and TV Show\Movie streaming from my server (I use XBMC for that) and it works great:

HD HomeRun PRIME hardwired (Gigabit) to my Netgear R6200 Wireless AC router (TWC is my cable provider)
Everything runs wireless in my 1400 SQ. FT. 3rd floor apartment and, previously, in my 1800 sq. ft. 2-story house. Wireless AC was\is the key to making this happen. Get a good router and get good AC adapters for the PC's:

Bedroom HTPC: Netgear A6200 Wireless AC Adapter (running in 5 GHz AC mode)
Living Room HTPC: Netgear A6200 Wireless AC Adapter (running in 5 GHz AC mode)
Garage (2 Floors down, attached) HTPC: Netgear A6200 Wireless AC Adapter (running in 2.4 GHz N mode)
Bedroom 2 (My Office) HTPC: Rosewill RNX-N180UBE (2.4 GHz N adapter)
Bedroom 3 (GF's Office) HTPC: Rosewill RNX-N180UBE (2.4 GHz N adapter)

The AC router delivers what it promises: better penetration for further 5 GHz range and further 2.4 GHz range. Since the garage is my longest run, I am using a Netgear A6200 adapter running in 2.4 GHz N Mode. The 5 GHz is picked up but just doesn't stay connected very well. N mode works just fine. I tried a Rosewill down there and a Linksys AC1200 adapter that I bought this weekend, but the best performance came from the Netgear A6200 so I took the Linksys back and exchanged it for another Netgear A6200. Yes, I stream HD down in that garage to a 50" Plasma...it simply takes a little longer to start the live TV stream in WMC. Other than that...it's great HD picture and solid stream.

Would I prefer wired? Absolutely. I had CAT 5e before in a previous home I owned from 2008-2013 (ran it myself), but it's not possible for me now...Wireless AC has changed my life. I hope my setup explanation answers some of those questions in your post up there. From what I gleaned out of it, most of your questions should be answered. Feel free to PM me with questions as well.

Last edited by davis449; 09-03-2014 at 11:13 AM.
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post #102 of 106 Old 09-03-2014, 11:58 AM
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One thing I have noticed is that JRiver works much better with an HD Homerun Prime. Now JRiver will not always proper release a tuner in SiliconDust which they are supposedly working on. Using the Ceton with the same cable drop I found that JRiver would often act like the Ceton was not getting enough signal, causing pixelization and picture breakup. In fact the same channel and content via the Ceton would work fine in WMC and break in JRiver MC. The SiliconDust tuner played back fine in both environments.


I haven't tried wireless with the Prime but the Ceton did not work successfully with wireless and WMC.


When I have time I will try to see if the Prime works in my home via wireless. I know I could stream ATSC from an HD Homerun fine using wireless and WMC. I have plenty of wired connections in my home. In theory there should be no difference between ATSC and CableCard content as far as streaming wirlessly, the bit rate is the same. I am not using the Ceton currently, though I would like to have all 7 cablecard tuners available at one time.

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post #103 of 106 Old 09-03-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post
I haven't tried wireless with the Prime but the Ceton did not work successfully with wireless and WMC.

When I have time I will try to see if the Prime works in my home via wireless. I know I could stream ATSC from an HD Homerun fine using wireless and WMC. I have plenty of wired connections in my home. In theory there should be no difference between ATSC and CableCard content as far as streaming wirlessly, the bit rate is the same. I am not using the Ceton currently, though I would like to have all 7 cablecard tuners available at one time.
ATSC is usually the higher bitrate compared to most cable channels

Having used the HDHR Prime and the Ceton Infinitv6-eth, I would just say the prime is better. Even directly comparing within WMC, the ceton would hold onto channels after stop was pressed. A few times it would hold them indefinitely and I'd have to reset them in the browser page. The drivers aren't updated too often from either party, but SD got their network tuner pooling features dead-on so many years ago that it doesn't matter too much whether they update their software these days. I know that a 3 tuner per card limit causes a lot of people to disregard the prime, but it's really the better of the two products IMO. I've not used the PCI or USB versions from Ceton to compare
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post #104 of 106 Old 09-04-2014, 04:10 AM
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Fellas,

Thanks for the replies. Very good info. Since my router is less than 20' from my living room equipment, I'm going to give my wireless a shot. I could always move the modem and router to the living room and only use wireless back to my PC in the office. If I have connection issues, I may give AC wireless a shot, but damn, I just bought an ASUS N66R (N900)last week.

Before winter, I plan on being down in the crawl space and running wire(cat6) everywhere I want it. Looks like I'm leaning toward the HDHomerun Prime for now. Can be had on fleabay for 90 or so and new for 120.

Davis - I may PM you about your TWC setup. With all those HTPC's, I assume with TWC's copy once crap, you cannot share cable recordings across all of those HTPCs, only the HTPC you used to record the particular program and extenders such as xbox or ceton echo or even ps3, correct?

Last edited by Rx4speed; 09-04-2014 at 05:35 AM.
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post #105 of 106 Old 09-04-2014, 02:59 PM
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The PS3 is only to access protected live tv from the prime... it can't be an extender to access protected recordings...

My warning on using wireless isn't intended for you not to try it but more to let you know in advanced that it may not work (each environment is different) and that if you have any problems, the first thing you should try is to eliminate the wireless.
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post #106 of 106 Old 09-05-2014, 07:07 PM
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I did a bit of testing yesterday of my HD Prime on wireless. I have an HP notebook at the far end of the house and in WMC the same channels that are unwatchable from the Ceton over wireless, actually work pretty well of the HD Prime. This is consistent with my experience on a wired connection in JR MC the Ceton is not robust and breakups and pixelates where the HP Prime works fine. Both work fine in WMC with a wired connection. There is something performance or timing thing with the Ceton that is suboptimal. The results above were on the same cable drop with no splitter straight from the wall. Maybe +1-1 dB of signal.

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