*Official* Ivy Bridge for HTPCs Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 261 Old 04-27-2012, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Everybody is looking for the "next great thing" with no real reason behind it.

So the HD4000 is the "next great thing". Absolutely no idea if that will translate into any noticeable difference.

Probably not. Maybe for Madvr which on my current system serves absolutely no purpose.

Agree. I just want it to work. The viewing is not that critical to me most of the time.

Perhaps if I was building a super high end HTPC to go into a $100,000 home theater I would care more about exact frame rates and the little things you can nit pick about.

But reality is- My $350 HTPC looks and sounds great on my "normal" level system. It matches up perfectly with the total budget of the system I think.

Most HTPC's are probably in the $350-$650 range if I took a guess- and at this price and budget they are being installed on common but decent quality consumer level equiptment.

If someone had a really high end system - then yeah go ahead and spend $1000+ on your HTPC since it certainly mates up well with the rest of your system. I mean on a $50,000 home theater that's only 2% of the total budget. Seems reasonable to me.

But for most middleclass non enthusiast level people I think the $400 HTPC is just fine.

I have shown my system and HTPC to countless friends and family- all of whom were highly impressed with the functionality and cool factor of it. THey thought the picture and sound was amazing.

No one noticed any "24p" bug, jitter, skipped frames or anything like that.

So I guess I just wonder why it's even being talked about.

I have a 2500k and a 2600k. I actually ran my 2600k as a HTPC for a while.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that my $350 G630 based HTPC works just as good as my $3800 i7 overclocked with a high end discrete GPU.

The suggestion of anyone needing a quad core at today's current level of performance you get around the 2500k Sandy series i5's and higher is just a total lack of real world knowledge and experience. So then I wonder why the replacement IVY, which is even better/more/faster/efficient would be needed.

Honestly I doubt a 2500k would use 3% CPU to even play back a movie... lol.

And even a celeron or Pentium level Sandy could benefit further from a GPU if the future need presented itself. And the Total cost is still far under an IVY with better performance.

I am all about high end PC's. I love them. But for a HTPC I do not see what all the fuss is about.

I might get an IVY down the road when the prices drop a bit to replace my Sandy chips. But it would be a value decision- not a performance need.

And- Most importantly if I was building a HTPC now (and I currently am) I would get a $60 G630, knowing it's just the right amount of performance and value. I could easily keep using my i7 machine if I thought it mattered. Reality is it does not. And- if the wife wants to play back a movie from the server I want to still surf AVS That's really the only reason I built a second HTPC. lol..

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post #62 of 261 Old 04-27-2012, 08:36 PM
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Mfusick,

I hear you, and largely agree, but in the next couple of months will be building an i5-3570k based HTPC with probably a 670Ti card in it - not so much for the HTPC, but for playing current generation games on the 1080p projector. Of course my main home computer is a Core 2 with HD3x00 graphics at the moment and I have just been putting off upgrading for a long time.
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post #63 of 261 Old 04-27-2012, 08:40 PM
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post #64 of 261 Old 04-28-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Am I missing something here thinking you need 4000 graphics for HTPC?

Apparently you are missing something. But you will just have to figure it out for yourself.
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post #65 of 261 Old 04-28-2012, 08:43 AM
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The only issue I have seen with my i3 htpc is watching baseball live. Occasionally it seems to slow down on a fast moving play. I don't know if this is due to hd2000 graphics or the ceton tuner card. I have to investigate this a bijt more.
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post #66 of 261 Old 04-28-2012, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

...I have shown my system and HTPC to countless friends and family- all of whom were highly impressed with the functionality and cool factor of it. THey thought the picture and sound was amazing.

No one noticed any "24p" bug, jitter, skipped frames or anything like that.

So I guess I just wonder why it's even being talked about.
...

Regardless of whether somebody else notices it, I notice it, and it annoys me. And yes, I do realize that some people do not notice it at all, even if they are looking for it.

Although I am initially disappointed that the preliminary reports of IVB integrated graphics are around 23.973, effectively the same as SNB, I'm somewhat hopeful they might finally close in on 23.976 a little better. Wasn't somebody here (babgvant?) testing a beta BIOS for one of the Intel boards which improved 23.976?

Bazinga!

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post #67 of 261 Old 04-28-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post


Apparently you are missing something. But you will just have to figure it out for yourself.

Lol.

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post #68 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 04:46 AM
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amazon has them now ..
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-377.../ref=de_a_smtd

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post #69 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 05:01 AM
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So does Newegg- I received an email from them at 2:58AM.

http://promotions.newegg.com/intel/1...E0-_-Promoword

NEW ORLEANS SAINTS - SUPER BOWL XLIV CHAMPIONS
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post #70 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

The suggestion of anyone needing a quad core at today's current level of performance you get around the 2500k Sandy series i5's and higher is just a total lack of real world knowledge and experience. So then I wonder why the replacement IVY, which is even better/more/faster/efficient would be needed.

I remember how abysmal the original Celerons were with their 128k L2 cache. For me they were practically unusable, that's why I never even considered buying one. People keep talking about putting them in HTPCs so I figured I'd check them out & I'm totally amazed how powerful Intel's budget chip is.

The passmark score for a 2.4ghz Celeron G530 is almost identical to a 3.0ghz Core 2 Duo E8400 & even similar to some of AMD's older Phenom quad core CPUs. I'm starting to think I'm overbuilding using the i3-2100. You can use the money you save on the CPU to get an SSD & really have a nice system. CPUs sure have come a long way.
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post #71 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 06:24 AM
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I had absolutely no intention of building an Ivy Bridge rig just yet...until now. Did I read the ads right? Wi-Di is integrated into the processor!? For me, that alone will be the deal maker for IB.
Is that correct, though?

Ray
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post #72 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

I had absolutely no intention of building an Ivy Bridge rig just yet...until now. Did I read the ads right? Wi-Di is integrated into the processor!? For me, that alone will be the deal maker for IB.
Is that correct, though?

Not really. Well, not in the way you seem to interpret the ads. WiDi ALWAYS requires an Intel CPU, Intel Chipset, and Intel's premium WiFi chipsets and the WiDi is on the wireless adapter. They haven't finished the 3.0 version of WiDi yet so what you really want may not even come until next year's Haswell launch. Right now, WiDi 2.0, which is useful for streaming HD content, is what's available and it's not as great as what 3.0 is bringing.
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post #73 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 07:03 AM
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Microcenter has them for a lot cheaper than Newegg and Amazon, if anybody happens to be close to one (in-store pickup only).
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post #74 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mslide View Post

Microcenter has them for a lot cheaper than Newegg and Amazon, if anybody happens to be close to one (in-store pickup only).

They have $50 off boards too.
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post #75 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostlobster View Post

I had absolutely no intention of building an Ivy Bridge rig just yet...until now. Did I read the ads right? Wi-Di is integrated into the processor!? For me, that alone will be the deal maker for IB.
Is that correct, though?

WiDi works with desktop IVB + 7 Series PCH (a delta v. SNB + 6 Series PCH) if you have the right WiFi adapter.

That said, I do not consider it to be really suitable for more than casual home theater use. You're better off picking up a wireless HDMI device.
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post #76 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 07:14 AM
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Btw celeron is just a name. They could have called it anything they wanted. Maybe like badmofo for the money cpu.
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post #77 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

amazon has them now ..
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-377.../ref=de_a_smtd

$350 for a HTPC CPU, no thanks.
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post #78 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

$350 for a HTPC CPU, no thanks.

The only intruiging one for me is this one:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0388579
Core i5 3450 3.1GHz LGA 1155 Processor $159



Only HD2500 graphics is the limiting thing for HTPC.

But for price, efficiency, and computing power balance- It's a good one as a server or normal PC CPU.

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post #79 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by tawd1992 View Post

I remember how abysmal the original Celerons were with their 128k L2 cache. For me they were practically unusable, that's why I never even considered buying one. People keep talking about putting them in HTPCs so I figured I'd check them out & I'm totally amazed how powerful Intel's budget chip is.

The passmark score for a 2.4ghz Celeron G530 is almost identical to a 3.0ghz Core 2 Duo E8400 & even similar to some of AMD's older Phenom quad core CPUs. I'm starting to think I'm overbuilding using the i3-2100. You can use the money you save on the CPU to get an SSD & really have a nice system. CPUs sure have come a long way.

+1 here.

Spend on larger better SSD a better motherboard and more/faster DDR instead

Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Btw celeron is just a name. They could have called it anything they wanted. Maybe like badmofo for the money cpu.

Lol

I like

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post #80 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


The only intruiging one for me is this one:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0388579
Core i5 3450 3.1GHz LGA 1155 Processor $159

Only HD2500 graphics is the limiting thing for HTPC.

But for price, efficiency, and computing power balance- It's a good one as a server or normal PC CPU.

Why would you bother with that? The 3570k is $189 and you get $50 off a Z77 mobo which makes it effectively $139 AND you get HD4000 graphics. Indeed for that price why bother with an i3-2100? Yeah it's overkill but it doesn't really use much more power in normal use and it has HD4000.

My problem is that they don't have any ITX mobos, I think.
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post #81 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

The only intruiging one for me is this one:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0388579
Core i5 3450 3.1GHz LGA 1155 Processor $159



Only HD2500 graphics is the limiting thing for HTPC.

But for price, efficiency, and computing power balance- It's a good one as a server or normal PC CPU.

Yeah, I guess at that price its not unreasonable.
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post #82 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Why would you bother with that? The 3570k is $189 and you get $50 off a Z77 mobo which makes it effectively $139 AND you get HD4000 graphics. Indeed for that price why bother with an i3-2100? Yeah it's overkill but it doesn't really use much more power in normal use and it has HD4000.

My problem is that they don't have any ITX mobos, I think.

Didn't someone say that eventually ivy core i3 would get HD4000? Thats probably going to be the ivy bridge of choice.
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post #83 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

Regardless of whether somebody else notices it, I notice it, and it annoys me. And yes, I do realize that some people do not notice it at all, even if they are looking for it.

Although I am initially disappointed that the preliminary reports of IVB integrated graphics are around 23.973, effectively the same as SNB, I'm somewhat hopeful they might finally close in on 23.976 a little better. Wasn't somebody here (babgvant?) testing a beta BIOS for one of the Intel boards which improved 23.976?

Yeah, this and the fact that idle power consumption is the same as SNB is a little disappointing. Like you said maybe the bios will fix 23.xxx, this seems to be the only flaw left for intel in the HTPC arena it does everything else well.
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post #84 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Yeah, this and the fact that idle power consumption is the same as SNB is a little disappointing.

The power draw could be related to the intended use of the motherboards they provided for launch.

I wouldn't be surprised to see slightly better #s with mATX/ITX H77 systems; the DZ77GA-70K they gave me had a lot more going on (2 NICs, external chips for SATA, FW, etc.) than anything I've tested SNB with.
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post #85 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Why would you bother with that? The 3570k is $189 and you get $50 off a Z77 mobo which makes it effectively $139 AND you get HD4000 graphics. Indeed for that price why bother with an i3-2100? Yeah it's overkill but it doesn't really use much more power in normal use and it has HD4000.

My problem is that they don't have any ITX mobos, I think.

But now your in a price category that for straight HTPC use is too expensive and for sure overkill in price/performance.

I mean if someone has deep pockets, or wil use it for gaming and more power hungry general PC related tasks- sure.

But for a stand alone HTPC- it's probably too much for the majority of people.

And that price is expensive- and you don't get $50 off any motherboard. Only select ones- and the motherboards are $30 higher than Newegg prices.

If I could find a Z68 Asrock or Asus or a Z77 for under $100 and still get the $50 discount I might consider it. But I can't see that deal anywhere.

The deal is $50 off $200 motherboards. That's expensive for a HTPC build.

I have a $300 i7 and a $269 Asus Z68 board I bought in last 6 months for my main machine. But I would never spend that on a HTPC because it's just way too much.

HTPC motherboards should cost under $100. Same thing for the CPU's.

Most HTPC's are $500 or less in total price

If I was building a $600+ HTPC or PC designed to be used for HTPC too I would consider the i5 or higher. But that's few and far in between for builds around here.

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post #86 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post


I bet they will be widely available on the 30th. I think Intel has some bizarre secrecy policy and all the stores are afraid to take pre-orders for fear of violating some draconian Intel NDA.

From what I hear, the embargo expires late on the 29th (Sunday night), so I expect the online stores will be listing them and selling them on the 30th. Probably Microcenter and Fry's will also have them for sale on the 30th.

Well....I was wrong...Amazon, newegg, and mostly microcenter has them with a unbeatable price.
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post #87 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 03:30 PM
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Stopped by Micro Center to check out what they were carrying in the new chips. Great news for the desktop I need to build; disppointment for the HTPC.

As I assumed, they still aren't carrying and don't plan to carry any mini-ITX motherboards, nor any "S" or "T" cpus. I was thinking an i5-3550S would make a nice compact HTPC with just an SSD, in an Antec ISK 300-150 case using an Intel DH77DF motherboard. (Not worried about the HD2500 graphics; after all I'm happy with my HD2000 I3-2100 system, so I expect the HD2500 would be great for my needs.) But my guess is that the 3550S will be well over $200 if and when I can find one somewhere, and have to ask whether that's worthwhile when Micro Center is selling the i5-3570K for $189, including the HD4000 graphics.

For the desktop, on the other hand, the $189.99 i5-3570K, an Asrock Z77 Pro3 motherboard for $109.99, the $50 combo savings, and a Corsair Carbide Series 300R case for $74.99 would make a dynamite all purpose desktop and those pieces total only $325 plus tax. (already have a 128gb SSD, a couple of 1tb hard disks, a PCP&C 400w Silencer III modular PSU, and a new copy of W7 Pro sitting around waiting for this; just need to find some SDRAM). Mostly I just need to find some time to build it and move everything from my "about to be retired" Q6600 system.

Using the 3570K in an ITX system is an interesting idea for $189. It's overkill, but is there a real downside? There are several types of overkill. Sometimes buying too much actually diminishes performance, such as buying a far oversized PSU. Sometimes it can result in extra power and heat, meaning more noise. And sometimes it's a matter of being a waste of money. But in this case, performance certainly won't suffer, and the 3570K probably will generate little or no extra heat during normal HTPC usage. So the question becomes one of cost. And in that respect, there is a serious question, since Micro Center probably will never carry an i5-3550S and may never carry the i3-3225, whether those chips purchased at Newegg or any where else will actually be much less than the i5-3570K at Micro Center. Right now, Newegg is charging $50-60 more for the Ivy Bridge cpus. So, for example, it would make no sense to buy a 3400 at Newegg for $199.99 at Newegg when you can buy a 3570K at Micro Center for $189.99, assuming you have a Micro Center nearby (as I do). If the 3550 is $219 at Newegg, the 3550S won't be any less than that (if they carry it at all), and why would I want to pay $30 more for less performance in comparison to the 3570K?. My only real concern is whether it would be any harder to cool than, say, a G620.

I'll have to see where these prices settle in during the next couple of weeks. No rush. If the Sandy Bridge experience is any indication, the prices and $50 "combo" deal at Micro Center will be essentially a permanent deal. It looks like Micro Center is slotting the IB in at $10 more than what they charge for SB cpus for the equivalent model. There's the answer for MFusick as to "why IB?". Is the performance increase sufficient for only a $10 increase in price? Probably.
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post #88 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

.

And that price is expensive- and you don't get $50 off any motherboard. Only select ones- and the motherboards are $30 higher than Newegg prices.

If I could find a Z68 Asrock or Asus or a Z77 for under $100 and still get the $50 discount I might consider it. But I can't see that deal anywhere.

The deal is $50 off $200 motherboards. That's expensive for a HTPC build.


No, it's off ANY Z77 motherboard, just like the deal has long been $50 off any Z68 mobo with an i5-2500K.

They have an Asrock Z77 Pro3 ATX or Z77 Pro4-M m-ATX, either of whiich looks just fine for $109.99 before the $50 off. ($109.99 is also exactly what Newegg charges, but they want $7.50 shipping which is more than the $6.60 I'd pay in sales tax at MC). So I could get the 3570K and one of those motherboards for $60 less than I'd pay for the same mobo and a 3450 at Newegg. That's a no-brainer.
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post #89 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

No, it's off ANY Z77 motherboard, just like the deal has long been $50 off any Z68 mobo with an i5-2500K.

They have an Asrock Z77 Pro3 ATX or Z77 Pro4-M m-ATX, either of whiich looks just fine for $109.99 before the $50 off. ($109.99 is also exactly what Newegg charges, but they want $7.50 shipping which is more than the $6.60 I'd pay in sales tax at MC). So I could get the 3570K and one of those motherboards for $60 less than I'd pay for the same mobo and a 3450 at Newegg. That's a no-brainer.

Yup, MC offers the best deal if you are going to get a MB AND CPU together. If you see any MB and/or CPU elsewhere for less, you can bring the ad down and sometime they will match the price for you on the top of the $50 bundle saving.

In my case, I'm thinking to pick up the Z77 MB and CPU from MC, saving $50 bundle, I'm upgrading to i7 3770K, just $50 more from the 3570K previous thinking to get.
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post #90 of 261 Old 04-29-2012, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hlkc View Post

Yup, MC offers the best deal if you are going to get a MB AND CPU together. If you see any MB and/or CPU elsewhere for less, you can bring the ad down and sometime they will match the price for you on the top of the $50 bundle saving.

They would match Newegg price on a motherboard?

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