*Official* Ivy Bridge for HTPCs Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 261 Old 03-29-2013, 09:53 AM
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OK, I confused Intel with AMD. DP with a DP-HDMI adapter supports the following audio formats:

AMD Radeon graphics since HD 5xxx

- With a passive adapter: Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS, DD+, TrueHD, DTS-HD (i.e. DP = HDMI exactly)
- With an active adapter: Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS, DD+

Intel HD Graphics (SNB, IVB) (I checked with Celeron G530+ASRock Z68 Pro3-M)

- With a passive adapter: No video / audio (i.e. Intel DP does not support dual-mode)
- With an active adapter: Multichannel LPCM, DD, DTS, DD+

Supported audio formats over DP vary with the mb, as seen in DH77EB manual. BTW

- Passive adapter means DP sends HDMI signals and the adapter converts HDMI by simple pin arrangement (hence such an adapter is cheap).



- Active adapter converts DP signals to HDMI signals by a chip in the adapter (hence expensive)

On the other hand, DVI with DVI-HDMI adapter of ASRock Z68 Pro3-M is identical with HDMI in every respect. Again this may vary with the mb. But I am pretty sure DVI with DVI-HDMI adapter of every ASRock mb is identical with HDMI.
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post #242 of 261 Old 03-29-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

OK, I confused Intel with AMD. DP with a DP-HDMI adapter supports the following audio formats:

...
On the other hand, DVI with DVI-HDMI adapter of ASRock Z68 Pro3-M is identical with HDMI in every respect. Again this may vary with the mb. But I am pretty sure DVI with DVI-HDMI adapter of every ASRock mb is identical with HDMI.

Including Audio ??? Do they do something special to DVI for audio?
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post #243 of 261 Old 03-29-2013, 10:10 PM
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With a DVI-HDMI adapter, DVI port (of most PC motherboards, except for Intel-brand ones) sends HDMI signals. The pins in single-link DVI are mapped 1-1 to the pins in HDMI, like this. There is nothing strange. Technical details.

Similarly with a passive DP-HDMI adapter, DP port supporting *dual-mode* (AMD supports dual-mode, Intel does not) sends HDMI signals. The pins in DP are mapped 1-1 to the pins in HDMI (as stated in my previous post). An active DP-HDMI adapter actually converts DP signals to HDMI signals with the built-in chip.
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post #244 of 261 Old 03-30-2013, 03:40 AM
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Interesting. Didn't know (care about) that before. Thanks for enlightening me. So it might be worth a try with that Asrock Q77m board. If that works, which component would be providing the Audio, Intel HDMI audio, or realtek?

Actually, I have enough boards lying around here (all Intel Mobos). But since Intel is leaving (has left) the consumer PC market I was looking for alternatives. Before completely abandoning Intel I came across this board because it could have the potential to replace all of my PCs: HTPC, desktop, server. It has all the right components (INtel NIC, CIR, 6x Sata on board...)

Right now, I'm looking to replace a DH55TC/DH57DD for server use and am playing around with 5+1 disks. The question being, is the power savings achieved by using series 6/7 boards over series 5 boards worth the money spent.
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post #245 of 261 Old 03-30-2013, 04:19 AM
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HDMI audio is coming from Intel's own HD audio controller.

ASRock's CIR is different from Intel's (check the manual). MSI Z77A-GD55, ~$125, is another choice (Z77, dual PCI Express 2.0 x8 slot, Intel Gb LAN), but without CIR header.

Power consumption varies with the CPU and the mb. I have Core i3-540+ASRock H55 Extreme3 currently running, comparing with Core i3-3225+ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, it consumes 5-10W more at idle.
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post #246 of 261 Old 03-30-2013, 02:35 PM
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That's about the same I see here between a DH57DD i3-540 vs DH67GD i3 2125 (5-10W) and DH77EB i3-3225 (maybe another 2-5W). each running the basic OS off a 2,5" disk. ( a seagate momentus.xt 750GB hybrid. nice little thing, silent, fast).
Server2012 does a great job at power management BTW. It even manages to hide the ugly/useless phone type display from you.

Re. CIR: well it's the same chip (nuvoton) with a different pinout-connector on the mobo and I have a diy IR receiver (a tsop, an R and a C total cost <5€), so I'm pretty sure I'll get it to work there too :-).
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post #247 of 261 Old 04-07-2013, 08:55 AM
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Update:
Got the board (ASROCK Q77m-vPRO)
1. HDMI via DVI OK
2. CIR OK
3. 23p ---> 23,972Hz ( as expected), a lot smoother than the 24.00x i get on the DH77EB, and yes, on my TV I do notice it, even though I'm not that sensitive)

Using it as a Server now:
CPU: i3-2125
Mem: 8GB kingston value 1333
1 x WD 2.5" 320GB HDD OS: Server 2012
5 x Hitachi 5K3000 2TB HDD RST Raid 5
1 x Dual PT1000 server NIC (will be running VMs on this one, will add more RAM then)

Power consumption
IDLE: 32 W (29 w/o the extra NICs) disks spin down
IDLE: 50W (disks still spinning)
Disk access (NAs medai etc) 58- 63W
Max: (boot, wake from sleep) 115W

The PSU isn't the best, a BQT Pure power 380W, Bronze, 4 years old. I'll probably replace it with a BQT E9 400W Gold.
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post #248 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Mitra View Post

Got an email from Intel support today, confirming that this (lack of 23p Hz Refresh rate) is a design limitation of the DH77EB. It will not be fixed by a either a a BIOS fix or a workaround.

I haven't had a chance to test this, but it's promising.



BIOS.
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post #249 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 08:31 AM
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You beat me to posting this here :-)
Just saw it, will try this weekend.
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post #250 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Just don't get an Intel MB and everything is much better already?
I don't get why everyone is so focused on Intels own boards anyway. tongue.gif

Generally Intel boards are more stable than other OEMs, and are the first to offer interesting HTPC centric features like CIR, HTPC_HEADER, mSATA on board, etc.

The EB is an oddity in this release cycle in that it doesn't support non-integer refresh rates, but even with that flaw it is a very stable board.


I would disagree strongly. Intel is better at costing more ... But that's about it.

I'd have no reservation choosing an AsRock or Asus over Intel board.

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post #251 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I would disagree strongly. Intel is better at costing more ... But that's about it.

I'd have no reservation choosing an AsRock or Asus over Intel board.

I'm curious what informs your opinion.

That said, soon it won't matter much anyway.
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post #252 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 02:11 PM
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Actually I just replaced the DH77EB last month with an Asrock B75M R2 GL and decided to live with Realtek NIC on that just because of the 23p judder. It was actually quite OK except for an occasional CIR dying after wake (had that on earlier Intels too), and another really small thing: the power LED blinks in sleep and can't be turned off.

The AsRock board was half the price of the Intel board. So actually a completely reasonable choice for a HTPC. Of course I can't say anything about long term issues, if any.

Now I'm hoping that the latest BIOS will let me revive that DH77EB again, if nothing else, then just to unify (Intellify) my collection of PCs again.

But,as Andy said: It won't matter too much longer anyway, maybe one more try.
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post #253 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I would disagree strongly. Intel is better at costing more ... But that's about it.

I'd have no reservation choosing an AsRock or Asus over Intel board.

I'm curious what informs your opinion.

That said, soon it won't matter much anyway.

I've owned both intel boards and Asus boards and Asrick boards and never noticed much difference in quality or reliability or performance.

I've also read a myriad of mobo reviews and mobo shoot outs at various review sites that compare them.

Nothing wrong with Intel; its a quality board.

But the myth it's better or more superior is wrong. It's competitive. Not superior. It actually usually performs a tad worse than Asus does for about the same price.

Intel has a niche in that they usually make neat little small boards that are cute and fit ITX builds well. They also have a name brand people are willing to pay extra for. Lastly they sometimes come with other intel goodies like Intel NIC. So... Yes they are good boards.

But dollar for dollar i would take an Asus with Intel NIC over an intel branded mobo on z77/Ivy build. It's better. Even Intel admits Asus has done some great things with the z77 memory controllers that make then perform superior. Asus also has a ton of proprietary features that boost performance.

AsRock generally is pretty darn close in most areas that matter for much less cost - making it an easy high value choice.

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post #254 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 05:28 PM
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I've owned both intel boards and Asus boards and Asrick boards and never noticed much difference in quality or reliability or performance.

I've never had owned or tested an ASRock board so I can't comment on that, but my experience w/ Asus does not mirror yours. That's not to say that they are bad, just not as stable as Intel systems in my experience. The only boards I've used that approach Intel in stability are Gigabyte with Intel chipsets.
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I've also read a myriad of mobo reviews and mobo shoot outs at various review sites that compare them.

I started writing reviews because after buying hardware, my experience didn't match the reviewer's. There are a few sites/reviewers that I trust, the rest - not so much.

I think most of this is that the reviewer's goals and mine aren't aligned (i.e. performance isn't my primary objective in a PC) and their test cases aren't realistic (e.g. I test motherboards/CPU in HTPC cases in a location where I would put a HTPC) not an open air test-bed or fan-filled full ATX case. With some of it that the rush to publish outweighs being through or taking into account things that are important to me (e.g. how the LED behaves in S3).
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But the myth it's better or more superior is wrong. It's competitive. Not superior. It actually usually performs a tad worse than Asus does for about the same price.

I think this depends on how you define better. If it means faster, or more overclockable then I completely agree. Intel boards aren't the fastest or the best suited for overclocking, but I'm an old man - that's not important to me smile.gif. I don't want 10 PCIe slots, blinking lights, skulls, monsters or 1/2 dressed lady-somethings on the box. Just give me something that works, is flexible and has a NIC I don't have to replace.

FWIW - I'm not trying to convince you of anything or say your experience isn't valid just sharing my experience and the foundations of my opinions on this topic formed of many years of using/testing/reviewing a lot of different systems.
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post #255 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 05:54 PM
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Gigabyte isn't more stable than Asus. Lol

My experience at least smile.gif

Moral of story is there is multiple right and wrong answers depending on who you ask.

If anything - this should show two things. #1 that most are generally the same much more than they are better or worse -and, #2.. AsRock if anything is the winner since its the best value and not any worse in stability, performance or reliability.

Intel isn't a good value IMO.

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post #256 of 261 Old 05-24-2013, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Gigabyte isn't more stable than Asus. Lol

My experience at least smile.gif

Moral of story is there is multiple right and wrong answers depending on who you ask.

Yes, this is true. It's also probably worth noting that I usually buy mid-level (boring) motherboards, so it's quite possible that my observations are not valid at other segments in the market.
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Intel isn't a good value IMO.

That depends on how you define value. To me, value is not just price but what I get for the $.

- Is a system stable, not just when it's on but when it comes to standby/resume.
- Can I run it for a month at a time without rebooting?
- How much power does it use?
- What is the level of annoyance when using something (for e.g. every Asus board I've owned blinks the LED in S3, I find this unacceptable)
- What other features are provided (CIR, HDMI-CEC, reliable WOL, timely BIOS updates, etc.)

Also, I won't buy a board with a Realtek NIC, so this narrows the pool significantly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

If anything - this should show two things. #1 that most are generally the same much more than they are better or worse -and, #2.. AsRock if anything is the winner since its the best value and not any worse in stability, performance or reliability.

I agree that for the most part there is isn't much difference b/w systems. If you're happy with your choices that's great.
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post #257 of 261 Old 05-25-2013, 07:31 AM
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I have AsRock z77 board with Intel x1 slot NIC smile.gif

$20 for an Intel NIC smile.gif

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post #258 of 261 Old 05-25-2013, 11:53 AM
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.. whatever:
The 101 BIOS now fixes the 23p issue on this board, it's now as good as the other IBs (23.972/3)

I was hoping they also added a uCode fix for the missing rdrand instruction on the second drop IB-cpus, but that is not the case.
http://communities.intel.com/message/184274#184274


My living room HTPC is now again a DH77EB, with CIR, Intel NIC and power LED that goes off in sleep!

... And as a first test: watched the champions league final in Wembley :-)
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post #259 of 261 Old 05-28-2013, 05:38 PM
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.. whatever:
The 101 BIOS now fixes the 23p issue on this board, it's now as good as the other IBs (23.972/3)

Confirmed. I had to do a recovery flash to make it work, although that could be because of 1) the age of the BIOS on it (I was a few behind) or 2) it's not a "production" board.

Either way, glad it's fixed.
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post #260 of 261 Old 05-29-2013, 11:08 AM
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Is it just me or is the access to Intel support community site broken again. I can't login, I asked to send both my login ID and password, but neither work, nor can I create a new acount (which I don't want anyway).
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post #261 of 261 Old 05-29-2013, 01:17 PM
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Oh, didn't even notice here's the IVB thread as well.
Well, what I'd say, I just love this Ivy setup I finished couple of weeks ago.
G2120 along with DH77EB and some 1.35v 2x4/1600/CL9 ram. Other parts migrated from the previous setup and include HD5670, S12II-330w, WD1001FALS and Samsung 830 64gb. Couple of fans and so on.
From the wall this setup idles with 40-45w on the desktop, NIC disconnected a bit less. Watching TV through 7MC takes 50w. Watching stuff with MPC-HC (madVR+LAV) 50-60w depending a bit on content.
Max that it was able to pull was around 90-95w with IBT+Furmark.

Considering the PSU's efficiency this thing doesn't take much. Based on Anand's review of the S12II PSU few years back it's efficiency should be between 75-82% with these kind of loads. I'm considering to swap this thing to a picoPSU. Would probably be fine with the picoPSU-120 or might just get the -150XT or 160XT, just because. Not like that there's a HUGE price difference between those...
I just checked and they're 39.95, 45.00 and 49.50 respectively. Of course the EU prices will be different but around that area anyway.. Now all I'd have to is find a real good quality brick with really high eff.

I love this Intel board by the way! biggrin.gif I had some issues though at first. Went on and installed everything, Windows went fine and installed all the software I needed. Had some weird issues like IDU refusing to install or CPU-Z or HWMonitor crashing after starting them. Saw that the BIOS was the first ever released. Went and downloaded the 0100 bios and chose the .exe method of course, haven't had a problem using Asus Update before so what could possibly go wrong biggrin.gif
Everything of course. Couldn't even get the board to freaking POST haha. In the end took almost everything off of the board and pushed the bios in using the recovery method.
Now all was fine. Just my stupidity which caused the problem. SO much stuff was added between the original and the 0100 so no wonder it failed haha.

The original HTPC setup was built in Dec 2010 and it served well these years. I just got the old mb/cpu/ram sold so good bye AMD stuff. I'm just hoping this setup will last around the same time.

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