SSD Prices to Drop Even More... - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I am a ssd fan.

But, again, to say that its unusable without one just isn't accurate. Maybe its unusable to you personally but everyone has different needs and expectations.

And as we have seen building a htpc can be done cheaply. So while $60 for an ssd is a definite worthwhile expense for you and me it isn't for everyone else necessarily.

Put it this way. You can build a bottom of the line htpc with a 2tb drive for less than $250 nowadays. So adding an ssd is 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of the entire build. So for that type of build you can see where its not for everyone.

Outside of the os installation which does take a few minutes longer in the htpc environment its perfectly fine not to use a ssd if you are on a very tight budget.

Your right about most of this. My comments were based on my personal experience and choice. It's mostly opinion of mine, and not universal across all human beings.

Everything I said is from my point of view.

But, even if I do agree with you in theory I will still have trouble understanding the choice to use a normal HDD for an OS on a new build. That one would make me scratch my head.

I feel like anyone that made that decision is just ignorant and does not know.

I can't understand how someone who has experienced and used and lived with an SSD based modern PC for any considerable time would ever choose to go back.

It's like choosing to go back to dial up internet access vs high speed.

Sure- it is a logical and viable choice even today. But does anyone do it ? I mean it is cheaper right ?

It's the exact same thing.

I will agree with you in theory about peoples right to do it, and the possibility.

But- IN reality- it's just not going to happen. Not for 99% of the people out there.

And- For me personally- I am definitive about it. My choice is made. I am not going back. regardless of the cost of SSD's- even if they double in price tomorrow. I would continue to go SSD for now and the future.

It's not just a choice anymore for me. It's a requirement. If the choice can't include an SSD then the only choice left for me is not to build or use a PC.

Just like if people had to choose to go back to dial up internet or not. Most would choose not to even use the internet instead of suffering a 56k modem experience.

logic tells me there is no possible way someone could go back from an SSD to an OS on HDD and be happy about it- or not regret it- or have additional future plans to install and go back to SSD.

The long term solution of a HDD for an OS on a brand new build just does not make any sense to me.

So that said,

I will agree with what you are saying about the option, and people's choice. I might not agree with it, but I guess your right.


PS: Anyone out there ever used an SSD and then went back to HDD ? Or use both daily? Who would choose a HDD over an SSD for a new build?

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post #32 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

But, even if I do agree with you in theory I will still have trouble understanding the choice to use a normal HDD for an OS on a new build. That one would make me scratch my head.

Again, because you don't need to buy a storage/data drive AND a SSD/OS drive. You can just as easily get a storage/data drive (1.5TB for less than $70 today, for example) and partition a portion for the OS (if, again, you are on a super strict budget and need local storage on your HTPC.)

So that's the reason and they way that you do it. When all you are doing is clicking open WMC+MB, XBMC, JRiver, etc then having a SSD to make that 1 task 2-4 seconds faster just isn't an absolute requirement.

Sometimes I think you have trouble separating HTPC from regular PC. They are very very different animals.
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post #33 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Again, because you don't need to buy a storage/data drive AND a SSD/OS drive. You can just as easily get a storage/data drive (1.5TB for less than $70 today, for example) and partition a portion for the OS (if, again, you are on a super strict budget and need local storage on your HTPC.)

So that's the reason and they way that you do it. When all you are doing is clicking open WMC+MB, XBMC, JRiver, etc then having a SSD to make that 1 task 2-4 seconds faster just isn't an absolute requirement.

Sometimes I think you have trouble separating HTPC from regular PC. They are very very different animals.

Your right here.

Since I install my own OS, and set it up myself your right. This aspect alone makes me say and feel what I do.

I would never get to the part your talking about. I would have already turned back and headed another (better) direction.

I don't think I will ever get far enough on a normal HDD to see if your actually right or now about that. So I will take your word on it.

One thing I do know is that in my bedroom I could not tolerate a HDD for the noise it makes either. SSD are totally silent. A HDD (even a GREEN) is louder than a well set up case/fan combo and would increase the noise factor.

I would have to remove it from proximity or hide it away to tolerate it.
Where I can have a monster PC or server in a dedicated room an that is totally not an issue.

That would be another consideration and issue for SSD.

Green drives are quiet but they are slow. Very slow for an OS.

I was surprised at how generally horrible the WD 2TB EARS was for an OS drive. And- I even expected it to suck. It far exceeded my expectations in that respect.

Is anyone out here in AVS that have done both and feel differently than I ? I mean used an SSD and decided to go back and been happy about it ?

If so- I would love to hear about it. I guess I can try to keep an open mind. I am just so passionate about this it's difficult for me.

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post #34 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I would never build a HTPC or PC for ***ME*** without a SSD. I also will never go back to not having one for the OS and programs.

But as I have said I have many friends and family that I have built HTPCs for that were on a shoestring budget that don't have a SSD and they have never complained about their HTPCs being "unusable".

The point is to get everyone into HTPC. So if that means that you have to build one without a SSD in order to get there then do it. Don't read this thread and think that you absolutely need to have one because you don't. Will the experience be worlds better with a SSD. I think so. Does that mean that you should wait to get into HTPC until you can scrounge that extra $60-$100 to get a SSD? Well that's up to you, your situation and your bank account. Can you get by without a SSD especially if you have never used one before and are likely used to slow, bloated Dells/HPs/Gateways? Absolutely yes.
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post #35 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I would never build a HTPC or PC for ***ME*** without a SSD. I also will never go back to not having one for the OS and programs.

But as I have said I have many friends and family that I have built HTPCs for that were on a shoestring budget that don't have a SSD and they have never complained about their HTPCs being "unusable".

The point is to get everyone into HTPC. So if that means that you have to build one without a SSD in order to get there then do it. Don't read this thread and think that you absolutely need to have one because you don't. Will the experience be worlds better with a SSD. I think so. Does that mean that you should wait to get into HTPC until you can scrounge that extra $60-$100 to get a SSD? Well that's up to you, your situation and your bank account. Can you get by without a SSD especially if you have never used one before and are likely used to slow, bloated Dells/HPs/Gateways? Absolutely yes.


I will agree with this. I see the point your taking.

Your concern is someone who might read this and not get into a HTPC becuase they think they must have an SSD and since they can not- they would not get into HTPC.

If that is your concern... then I will agree with you.

But that is for people that have never used an SSD before also. So it would be acceptable to them. Infact it would seem fast if they are used to crappy PC's.

But for someone that has used an SSD before- the story is different. But anyone who has used SSD would choose it again I think. It does not take much convincing. The decision almost seems automatic to me.

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post #36 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Interesting points there gents. I'm currently running my new install off the Hard Drive after having used this (i7 2600 with 16GB RAM) machine for the last 6 months on SSD. I concur that the SSD is indeed quicker to boot, but only by perhaps a couple seconds. Let's say 10 seconds. If you rebooted every day for a year you'd save a whole hour.
On my Acer Revo, however, it's a different story. It was a rather under-powered machine with only 2GB of RAM when I got it and boots a lot quicker (30 seconds or so) now with 4GB and an SSD. However, the Revo only gets rebooted once a month or so.
Neither case, to me, is enough to make an SSD mandatory. I do, however, believe them to be desirable. But in a true 'economy build' I would forgo SSD.

That would be about all that needs to be said .... never better
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post #37 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 04:25 PM
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That would be about all that needs to be said .... never better

Flocko,

DO you have an SSD or an HDD for you OS?

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post #38 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 07:21 PM
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I've been sitting here watching this debate, and I've noticed one thing that hasn't been mentioned. Depending on what your needs are the SSD might actually be the cheaper choice. A 250GB hard drive is $70 on NewEgg right now. It seems that you can find 64GB SSD's for less. In my case I've got all my media on a server, and my main PC does DVR duties. So I don't need local storage on any of my HTPC's. So for me a SSD makes sense, even financially. Of course all my HTPC's already have SSD's from before the flood so it's a moot point. Even if I get the rebuild itch I'd just use the same SSD's with the new system.
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post #39 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by duff99 View Post

I've been sitting here watching this debate, and I've noticed one thing that hasn't been mentioned. Depending on what your needs are the SSD might actually be the cheaper choice. A 250GB hard drive is $70 on NewEgg right now. It seems that you can find 64GB SSD's for less. In my case I've got all my media on a server, and my main PC does DVR duties. So I don't need local storage on any of my HTPC's. So for me a SSD makes sense, even financially. Of course all my HTPC's already have SSD's from before the flood so it's a moot point. Even if I get the rebuild itch I'd just use the same SSD's with the new system.

+1

I was going here. Lol

That's why I said totally new build.

With existing stuff there is always argument to use something that is not ideal just because you already have it. But buying all new parts would you do the same ?

I agree about no storage in pc too.

SSD is totally silent as well as affordable. It's a better choice.

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post #40 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by duff99 View Post

I've been sitting here watching this debate, and I've noticed one thing that hasn't been mentioned. Depending on what your needs are the SSD might actually be the cheaper choice. A 250GB hard drive is $70 on NewEgg right now. It seems that you can find 64GB SSD's for less. In my case I've got all my media on a server, and my main PC does DVR duties. So I don't need local storage on any of my HTPC's. So for me a SSD makes sense, even financially. Of course all my HTPC's already have SSD's from before the flood so it's a moot point. Even if I get the rebuild itch I'd just use the same SSD's with the new system.

Actually I have gone out of my way (in multiple posts) to point out that if you require local storage and thus only want to buy or can afford a single drive then that might be a reason to consider one over the other if you are on a limited budget.

But with today's SSD vs Hard Drive prices the argument against owning a SSD is getting weaker and weaker. But its still there for some people.
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post #41 of 152 Old 04-29-2012, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Again, because you don't need to buy a storage/data drive AND a SSD/OS drive. You can just as easily get a storage/data drive (1.5TB for less than $70 today, for example) and partition a portion for the OS (if, again, you are on a super strict budget and need local storage on your HTPC.)

I got started building an HTPC after reading the thread Cheapest ever HTPC that's decent. Proud of myself.

At this point I'm just not ready to get an SSD in addition to the HDD. I have to get the HTPC fired up & working first.

Could you please tell me who has a 1.5TB for $70?
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post #42 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 05:23 AM
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You can get 2tb for $90. Use staples 25$ off card method.

I got my last had from Costco. 3tb for 130$ no rebates or shipping.

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post #43 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 06:23 AM
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I think it's funny after all the information here about SSDs, you still see replies that the only benefit an SSD provides is improved boot times. The benefits go way beyond boot time. Everything needs to be fetched from disk into memory. Most of what a PC does is I/O bound. Launcing programs, navigating menus, bring up the guide, a myriad of other things are vastly and noticeably improved by SSD. I had to go back to using an HDD on one of my PCs for a little while due to some issues I was having (which turned out to be the BIOS being stupid about which devices were plugged in) and it drove me nuts how slow it was for almost everything I wanted to do. Yeah, I'll never go back either for PC or HTPC.

Now, if I could just convinced them at work to swap out my HDD for an SSD...

 

 

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post #44 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

I think it's funny after all the information here about SSDs, you still see replies that the only benefit an SSD provides is improved boot times. The benefits go way beyond boot time. Everything needs to be fetched from disk into memory. Most of what a PC does is I/O bound. Launcing programs, navigating menus, bring up the guide, a myriad of other things are vastly and noticeably improved by SSD. I had to go back to using an HDD on one of my PCs for a little while due to some issues I was having (which turned out to be the BIOS being stupid about which devices were plugged in) and it drove me nuts how slow it was for almost everything I wanted to do. Yeah, I'll never go back either for PC or HTPC.

Now, if I could just convinced them at work to swap out my HDD for an SSD...

Agree 100%.
The whole experience of using my HTPC with a SSD is just better.
Not just the boot times, but also things like navigating menus and how fast fanart and other backgrounds render.

If the only difference I ever saw was boot times it wouldnt be such a big deal, because I rarely ever reboot. Its all the daily use stuff that is much quicker and smoother now.

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post #45 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by StardogChampion View Post

I think it's funny after all the information here about SSDs, you still see replies that the only benefit an SSD provides is improved boot times. The benefits go way beyond boot time. Everything needs to be fetched from disk into memory. Most of what a PC does is I/O bound. Launcing programs, navigating menus, bring up the guide, a myriad of other things are vastly and noticeably improved by SSD. I had to go back to using an HDD on one of my PCs for a little while due to some issues I was having (which turned out to be the BIOS being stupid about which devices were plugged in) and it drove me nuts how slow it was for almost everything I wanted to do. Yeah, I'll never go back either for PC or HTPC.

Now, if I could just convinced them at work to swap out my HDD for an SSD...

+1

I had the same thoughts are you.

The comments you read about stuff like that is obviously someone who is not a daily SSD user.

To me the benefits are just so clear. Not sure if it is because I use good hardware, including fast SSD's. Perhaps because I know a bit about PC's and set up- and it's all set up to work optimally?

I just can't imagine someone with a good set up thinking the only advantage is increased boot times. That's almost a non factor for me.

It's the constant daily performance increase you mention above that sells me on it's value.

PS: I use one at work. 120GB SSD.

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post #46 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 10:42 AM
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Now I'm starting to entertain the thought of changing my home pc to a SSD.
Right now I have a 500gb and a 1tb HD in it...the os is on the 500gb.

(I also have an unraid server running a bunch of 2tb drives.....I can add the 1tb drive to it)

If I were to put a ssd in the pc and use the 500gb as the storage drive, where would I put programs such as photoshop and vegas movie studio?
Would I still see benefits if I have photoshop on the ssd and the photos I am working on are on the regular HD?

Also, can I just yank out my HD, put the ssd in, do a clean install of Win 7 and use my same activation number? Or would I have to call Microsoft and tell them Im changing hard drives?

Thanks

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post #47 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You can get 2tb for $90. Use staples 25$ off card method.

What is the Staples $25 off card? I get their emails all the time & have not seen this offer.
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post #48 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Now I'm starting to entertain the thought of changing my home pc to a SSD.
Right now I have a 500gb and a 1tb HD in it...the os is on the 500gb.

(I also have an unraid server running a bunch of 2tb drives.....I can add the 1tb drive to it)

If I were to put a ssd in the pc and use the 500gb as the storage drive, where would I put programs such as photoshop and vegas movie studio?
Would I still see benefits if I have photoshop on the ssd and the photos I am working on are on the regular HD?

Also, can I just yank out my HD, put the ssd in, do a clean install of Win 7 and use my same activation number? Or would I have to call Microsoft and tell them Im changing hard drives?

Thanks

You should install all your programs to the SSD drive and enjoy the extreme performance increase it will provide.

They will open faster- run better- no doubt about it. It's certain fact.

Don't install anything to a normal HDD. Install it all to an SSD.

how much used space do you have on your OS drive now? What else is on that - (data?)

You might be able to get away with a 65$ 60GB SSD like Vertex3. It's very fast and very aggressively priced.

if not- You could get a 120GB model for ~$110

Let me make this perfectly clear:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

If I were to put a ssd in the pc and use the 500gb as the storage drive, where would I put programs such as photoshop and vegas movie studio?

You would install all your programs to the SSD. Only keep Data/media on the the HDD. Programs get installed normal onto your C: drive (SSD) like normal.
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Would I still see benefits if I have photoshop on the ssd and the photos I am working on are on the regular HD?

Yes. The difference would be instantly noticeable and performance increase quite extreme. Your photoshop will open faster- perform better/faster. You can still store your pictures on your HDD. I might suggest loading them onto the SSD first- working with them. When your done moving them to the HDD for storage. You could enjoy the benefits of SSD without need to keep stuff on it and fill it up. You have to bring the pictures into the PC anyways so just copy to the SSD. When you done with what your doing move it all to the HDD for storage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Also, can I just yank out my HD, put the ssd in, do a clean install of Win 7 and use my same activation number? Or would I have to call Microsoft and tell them Im changing hard drives?

Yes. You can yank out your HDD and clean install windows7 with the same activation code. You should not need to call Microsoft. If you have OEM version of windows- you might. I did not. But even if you did have to call it's easy and they give you a free new code over the phone right then and there. No cost. Just tell them your upgrading your drive or your drive died.

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post #49 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

What is the Staples $25 off card? I get their emails all the time & have not seen this offer.

It's been all over. Take a look in my HDD deal thread.

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post #50 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

What is the Staples $25 off card? I get their emails all the time & have not seen this offer.

Staples has 25 off 75, 25 off 100 and 30 off 150 coupons. Sometimes you can find them and print them off the internet, sometimes you have to buy them.
I buy my staples 25 off coupons from ebay. Usually will cost you about $2 to save $25.

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post #51 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I got started building an HTPC after reading the thread “Cheapest ever HTPC that's decent. Proud of myself.”

At this point I’m just not ready to get an SSD in addition to the HDD. I have to get the HTPC fired up & working first.

Could you please tell me who has a 1.5TB for $70?

http://www.e-junkie.com/shop/product...iration+May+16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I got started building an HTPC after reading the thread “Cheapest ever HTPC that's decent. Proud of myself.”

At this point I’m just not ready to get an SSD in addition to the HDD. I have to get the HTPC fired up & working first.

Could you please tell me who has a 1.5TB for $70?

Yup. Great thread. I started it

But- take my advice. SSD is worth the cost. It just is.

It's just better.

You can get a 60GB Vertex3 for $65. Cheaper than a HDD

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post #52 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 12:24 PM
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http://www.e-junkie.com/shop/product...iration+May+16



Yup. Great thread. I started it

But- take my advice. SSD is worth the cost. It just is.

It's just better.

You can get a 60GB Vertex3 for $65. Cheaper than a HDD

But I still need somewhere to put the OTA recordings. A 60GB drive will not hold too much, especially after installing Windows 7 and maybe 1 or 2 other small programs.

I'm not against an SSD, but I want to get the HTPC up & running first.
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post #53 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

But I still need somewhere to put the OTA recordings. A 60GB drive will not hold too much, especially after installing Windows 7 and maybe 1 or 2 other small programs.

I'm not against an SSD, but I want to get the HTPC up & running first.

For sure. If you need storage then you need a HDD.

SSD is not a good storage solution.

Do you have any HDD now?

Did you look in the HDD deal thread for some bargains?

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post #54 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 04:20 PM
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Oh goodie lol looking forward to buying 8 with a serious raid card from LSI then! My dreams may come true! YAY!
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post #55 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 04:28 PM
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Oh goodie lol looking forward to buying 8 with a serious raid card from LSI then! My dreams may come true! YAY!

running RAID with SSD is not always what it is cracked up to be.

Many RAID controllers lack the speed to keep up with an SSD.

Also,

You lose the TRIM function with RAID on ACHI.

I ran RAID0 with two VERTEX 120GB MAX IOPS.

It was stupid fast. But ultimately I split the drives up and used one for one thing and one for another machine.

A good SSD is already fast enough. There is nothing more you need to do than just install it and enjoy.

If you want more speed get a larger/better SSD. That is all.

If your really crazy you can get a PCI express 3.0 card. OCZ makes one that makes the high end SATA drives look like children.

It actually would saturate a SATAIII port. That's extreme!

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post #56 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

But I still need somewhere to put the OTA recordings. A 60GB drive will not hold too much, especially after installing Windows 7 and maybe 1 or 2 other small programs.

I'm not against an SSD, but I want to get the HTPC up & running first.

You can configure WMC to put the LiveTV buffer/recordings on a different drive. My HTPCs have a 64GB for the O/S and a small 2.5" HDD for the recordings. These gets swept to my WHS nightly.

I am in the process of replacing these with 128GB SSDs as they come up for cheap(er).

 

 

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post #57 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

For sure. If you need storage then you need a HDD.

SSD is not a good storage solution.

Do you have any HDD now?

Did you look in the HDD deal thread for some bargains?


I know you started the other thread which got me started on this project.

I do not have a HDD yet.

Let me respond to the HDD items in the Cheapest ever HTPC that's decent. Proud of myself. thread, otherwise I would be going way OT.
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post #58 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

running RAID with SSD is not always what it is cracked up to be.

Many RAID controllers lack the speed to keep up with an SSD.

Also,

You lose the TRIM function with RAID on ACHI.

I ran RAID0 with two VERTEX 120GB MAX IOPS.

It was stupid fast. But ultimately I split the drives up and used one for one thing and one for another machine.

A good SSD is already fast enough. There is nothing more you need to do than just install it and enjoy.

If you want more speed get a larger/better SSD. That is all.

If your really crazy you can get a PCI express 3.0 card. OCZ makes one that makes the high end SATA drives look like children.

It actually would saturate a SATAIII port. That's extreme!

True but I have been watching results from RAID 0 with SSD and its impressive. If your drive comes with good tools, TRIM isn't that important anymore. I also here on Z68 boards Intel will be releasing an updated that allows TRIM support with those boards and SATA III SSD's.

My next workstation will be (2) Seagate Hybrid drives in RAID 0 = 1.5TB. Since its main duties will be to rip cd's via dbAmp Power and DVD's + any encoding (quad core) all in a tiny Antec case that's plenty of speed and space.

If I had more budget I would entertain having that setup in my soon to be rebuilt HTPC which currently has one SATA II drive (640GB) (and 320GB OS drive) while two series (Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heros and Mad Men) are moved to the server automagically, but it can build up that I am only going to use the 60-64GB for its OS/Programs only.

NASCAR 5 hour event (1080i) = 20GB
Indy Car @Sao Paulo (720p) = 15GB
F1 (720) = 15GB

24hours of Le Mans = Forgetaboutit

I am interesting in a price war for two reasons:

I want to upgrade this laptop I'm typing on to at least 120GB, but if prices drop aggressively enough I'll put a 240GB in here, its SATA II so it will be cheaper anyway.

I want a 32/60/64GB for when I reuse my old motherboard/cpu/memory in a new case and use that as a Linux platform I can learn on.

Finally put a SSD in my mom's PC, likely 64GB.

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post #59 of 152 Old 04-30-2012, 10:30 PM
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just FWIW:

1) from just a casual look, a 120 or 128GB SSD is VERY close to 60/64GB, as little as 20 bucks. At this time, I see SATA III drives are less cost that an equivalant SATA II.

2) I've installed SATA III in SATA II machines, and can't really tell the difference. So if it was my laptop, I wouldn't bat an eye putting a SATA III SSD in.
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post #60 of 152 Old 05-01-2012, 07:09 AM
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I like the idea of a silent and quicker (possibly cooler too?) SSD.

Since I am on a budget, I am wondering.....I am going to partition a 2TB HDD on my HTPC, setting aside about 60GB for the OS, Drivers and Applications. I do plan on buying a 64GB SSD eventually, but it's just not a "need" for me right now therefor doesn't fit my budget.

Is there software which will allow me to copy the OS image from that partition to the SSD seamlessly? Or will I need to put on a fresh image, and then "un-partition" my 2TB drive without losing the media?
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