SSD vs HDD for OS (poll included) - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: What is your experience with an SSD drive?
I have used both SSD and a HDD; I will never go back to a HDD again. 0 0%
I have used an SSD but don't think it's worth it, I would go back to a HDD happily. 0 0%
I have never used an SSD, only a normal hard drive for an OS install. 0 0%
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post #1 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

How many have used an SSD for an OS install vs a normal HDD.

Anything not think the performance increase provided by an SSD drive is not worth the cost of an SSD at current street prices????

I am a huge SSD fan. Wondering how others feel about it too.

Share your thoughts please.

-


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post #2 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 03:14 PM
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I don't think you are seeing the full argument in the other thread. No one is saying that a HD is better than a SSD.
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post #3 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 03:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I don't think you are seeing the full argument in the other thread. No one is saying that a HD is better than a SSD.

I think I am a bit more passionate and decisive on the issue. That is all.

For me it's night and Day.

My decision is only to build new PC's with SSD drives for the OS. My decision is only to own and use and operate PC's with SSD for the OS. The decision and final and absolute.

It's not worth my time or effort to bother with a PC without an SSD for any significant period of time or function. If it's something I am going to use at any siginificant period of time or consistency- then I must have an SSD.

If I can not- I choose to go without or not use a PC. It's really quite simple.

I don't mean to sound upity or a PC snob- but non SSD based OS installs and PC's are decidedly beneath me. I have neither the time nor the patience to suffer the complete horribleness that a HDD OS install provides.

Lags, hang ups, and generally poor/slow performance is frustrating. One thing I don't have any more of is time. My time on this planet is limited, and I am not wasting any period of my life waiting for a crappy PC any longer.

I have experienced both SSD and a HDD and I make the choice to never experience HDD again- I gladly make this choice.

If SSD prices doubled tomorrow I would continue to own, purchase and build PC's with SSD drives for the OS. It's still worth it to me.

I understand your concern is that people might see my comments and think or decide not to bother getting into HTPC because they can't or don't want to spend the money on a SSD. To that end- I would agree with you and say if someone has not exerienced and SSD before they would never know the difference and find the experience perfectly acceptable.

But- I think for anyone that has used a good modern PC with a good SSD drive would tend to agree with me.

I think anyone that has experienced SSD, the choice in the future is almost automatic. They would do it again over a HDD.

Sorry I am so passionate about this subject but I really do enjoy the performance of an SSD. I am so spoiled with my work and home PC's that anytime I try someone's normal laptop or desktop I find the experience clearly unacceptable to me.

This will never change untill all these slow PC's have been eradicated from this planet, and the performance bar of general population of PC's has been raised.

The current average household PC is probably a dual core laptop with 2.5" HDD or a dual core CPU based desktop on a 3.5" HDD. It's probably 70% laptop and 30% desktop mix on average.

That general median curve of performance on average is completely unacceptable to me.

It's horrible and slow. It's the sole reason why so many people like new tablets, and Ipads and all these strange little devices. It's because for an ordinary person with little PC knowledge- the equipment is already poor performance and it's made worse with poor set up- and maintaince. When these people get a new Ipad it seems fast to them and they are silly in thinking it's higher performance.

Give them a real PC like a SSD on SandyBridge Desktop or an Ultrabook SSD based Laptop and it would open their eyes totally and recalibrate the idea of "acceptable performance" vs "unacceptable performance"

I understand I am a bit ahead of the curve of normal people here, becuase I am an enthusiast and operate higher quality stuff daily. But the entire population will catch up in the next few years.

I have no doubt 5 years from now a non SSD based OS install and PC will be thought about like people think about dial up internet access now. Totally ancient and generally unacceptable in performance.

SSD is getting better, faster, and cheaper each day. It's already operating in a territory that HDD's can't go in terms of pure performance. That's never changing. It's only going to get worse.

HDD's are purely for storage only in my mind. I can not recommend in good consience to anyone- to use one for an operating system.

If you can't figure out a way to include an SSD into the equation your better off going without. I know we are going to always disagree on this, because you care if people get into HTPC or not. You want them to get into it, even it it means they must use a HDD to do it.

But I know better. I know how much better an SSD can be. So I think it's better off going without than using a HDD.

You can buy a 60GB SSD for $59.99 all day long. If you can't swing $60 to include one, save up untill you can- or just go without forever. That's how I think.

Sorry we disagree.

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post #4 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 04:00 PM
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I think your poll choices are too limiting. Where's the 'I have used both and will continue to use both option'? Or is everyone who disagrees with the extremity of your view to be eliminated from the poll? Just drink the Kool-Aid and everything will be fine...
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post #5 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 04:02 PM
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I can't vote in this poll, as my feelings aren't really represented by any of the options. I have computers in my house with and without an SSD. I love the SSD. It's fantastic. I think it's absolutely worth the money, provided it fits the budget of the project. However, if I were building a low budget machine, I wouldn't hesitate to leave out the SSD.
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post #6 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 04:06 PM
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What point are you trying to prove, again, or is this yet another attempt to validate your opinion?
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post #7 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

I think your poll choices are too limiting. Where's the 'I have used both and will continue to use both option'? Or is everyone who disagrees with the extremity of your view to be eliminated from the poll? Just drink the Kool-Aid and everything will be fine...


Ha .... TAHT WAS FUNNY ... "drink the kool- Aid"
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post #8 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

I think your poll choices are too limiting. Where's the 'I have used both and will continue to use both option'? Or is everyone who disagrees with the extremity of your view to be eliminated from the poll? Just drink the Kool-Aid and everything will be fine...

Well - You can either choose to use one or not.

Are you saying you have used both and would happily decide to use a HDD again over an SSD?

or- are you just finding fault with the question ?

I wanted the poll to be pretty clear cut. Both is really an easy way out. Too easy.

Would you buy a HDD over an SSD to use for OS install ? (please answer this) I mean, not a HDD you already had, but if you were charged with building a totally new system with all brand new purchased parts. Would you spend on a HDD and use it for an OS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars99 View Post

What point are you trying to prove, again, or is this yet another attempt to validate your opinion?

I am just curious.

I am probably on the extreme side. I undersand this.

But I am trying to be open minded. It's difficult for me because logically I can't see how anyone that has used an SSD would want to go back to a HDD.

I am curious if someone is out there that would. Does this person exist?

I understand it's probably more likely, easier and popular to attack me for whatever reason- since I am probably getting under some people's skin.

That's ok.

But seeing this happen and no one stepping forth to say "Sure I would go back to HDD" kinda validates my opinion and feelings a little.

I mean- I am sure there is probably a few readers out there that want to go against me for the pure reason of it is ME , and they want to go against me. The point I have, or they have is irrelevant in the matter really.

That is going to happen. But I can recognize when it's happening and why as opposed to someone who actually really does disagree with me about SSD.

I am curious if there is really a person that is out there that disagrees with me about SSD's, for no other reason than they really do and feel HDD is acceptable. No personal feeling or anything getting in the way. Just pure... different opinion than mine.

Anyone ?

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post #9 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 05:14 PM
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I've been using SSD's for close to 4 years now. The first 120GB drive cost over $400, no trim, no garbage collection, SATA II and no information about about synchronous vs. asynchronous NAND. Even then it war light years ahead of a mechanical hard-drive. Before that I used WD VeloicRaptors 300GB and even then the difference was to much to ignore. Now that anyone who does even a litte bit of research, would never be without one. The price of these units has dropped so much, it's almost a must have. As it kills me to do I will agree with Mfusick 120GB are the sweet spot right now.
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post #10 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 05:28 PM
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I don't think there is anyone on earth that would use a hard drive over a SSD if the size and cost were the same.

Until you can get a 2TB SSD for $100 there will always those that need a storage drive and don't want to fork out the extra money for a SSD for the OS drive alone.

With all that said I personally will never build a HTPC or PC that I will use personally without one. But I completely understand those on a tight budget with minimal HTPC needs that don't want one and won't go out of my way to beat them up about it.

BTW, imo, most HTPC forums on the internet are mostly anti-SSD when it comes to HTPC as they don't think they are necessary. AVS is the exception to this rule and I think we should be commended for this cutting edge approach. But I also don't think we shouldn't keep people out of HTPC because they don't want to use one or can't afford one.

That's all on that topic.
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post #11 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 06:24 PM
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One other observation...

I am reinstalling WHS 2011 on my server tonight on a 2.5" 500GB that I had laying around. One interesting thing was that prior to installing all the drivers this thing WAS pretty slow. But since I installed the Intel drivers especially for the motherboard it is about 10x faster including restarts.

I wonder if maybe in your previous experience you just didn't get to that part.

Edit: By mentioning this I was referencing the "Unusable" comment in the other thread in regards to using a Hard Drive for the OS. Again, not stating that SSD is inferior to HD. Of course SSD is better.
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post #12 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

One other observation...

I am reinstalling WHS 2011 on my server tonight on a 2.5" 500GB that I had laying around. One interesting thing was that prior to installing all the drivers this thing WAS pretty slow. But since I installed the Intel drivers especially for the motherboard it is about 10x faster including restarts.

I wonder if maybe in your previous experience you just didn't get to that part.

Edit: By mentioning this I was referencing the "Unusable" comment in the other thread in regards to using a Hard Drive for the OS. Again, not stating that SSD is inferior to HD. Of course SSD is better.

My last hdd install was a i3 2100 on Asrock motherboard with 8 gb Ripjaws ddr3 and 2tb WD green ears.

I did indeed install the mfg install cd using the "install all " option

That process alone was unbearably slow.

After several restarts it was done.

I then went online and did windows updates, visited Asrock website and updated to newer versions of important stuff.

After many restarts I then installed thunderbird, adobe reader, winrar, chrome , firefox, iTunes, media browser, and some others.

Restarted again...

It was painfully slow even after driver wizard confirmed I had all newsy versions of drivers including intel chipset drivers.

It was quite terrible in all respects.

Even prior to my first SSD I was running dual raptors or velociraptors in RAID 0 for years.

I was not prepared for the extreme lack of performance and speed. Intact I had never installed an OS to a Green drive before.

I thought it might be me. But I built this htcp for my friend and business partner. He also complained about how slow it is.

It's in the agenda to SSD upgrade this machine.

Prior to this he had a socket 939 with a 4800 x2 and dual original raptors 74GB's in RAID 0. They were over five years old !!!!

He thought the green drive was slow. His wife too.

He replaced this 939 4800x2 a month earlier because his raptors were too noisy and loud. He took home a basic HP 5700 desktop I bought on eBay with no HDD for 60$ from office. I installed a spare vertex3 60gb SSD into it that I got for 65$ after rebate. It was based on a pentium d or a lower end core2 CPU I think.

He thought the speed was amazing. It only had 2gb ddr2.

So he expected the i3 2100 with 8gb of DDR 3 to be much faster. It was actually slower and he was disappointed.

But he only wanted spend 384$ total on everything and wanted a big HDD for torrent downloads.

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post #13 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

One other observation...

I am reinstalling WHS 2011 on my server tonight on a 2.5" 500GB that I had laying around. One interesting thing was that prior to installing all the drivers this thing WAS pretty slow. But since I installed the Intel drivers especially for the motherboard it is about 10x faster including restarts.

I wonder if maybe in your previous experience you just didn't get to that part.

Edit: By mentioning this I was referencing the "Unusable" comment in the other thread in regards to using a Hard Drive for the OS. Again, not stating that SSD is inferior to HD. Of course SSD is better.

I am reinstalling whs2011 as I type this on my phone waiting for it to install.

Did you use driver mfg cd or go AsRock website for drivers ?

You use windows 7 drivers?

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post #14 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am reinstalling whs2011 as I type this on my phone waiting for it to install.

Did you use driver mfg cd or go AsRock website for drivers ?

You use windows 7 drivers?

Yes, win 7 x64 drivers. I always go to the website.
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post #15 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post


Yes, win 7 x64 drivers. I always go to the website.

Me too. CD is noob. But in this case the LAN would not work without the LAN driver so I could not get online without the cd first... Lol

That's abnormal though ...

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post #16 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post


Yes, win 7 x64 drivers. I always go to the website.

Any reason x64 windows 7 drivers would not work on WHS2011 ??

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post #17 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

One other observation...

I am reinstalling WHS 2011 on my server tonight on a 2.5" 500GB that I had laying around. One interesting thing was that prior to installing all the drivers this thing WAS pretty slow. But since I installed the Intel drivers especially for the motherboard it is about 10x faster including restarts.

I wonder if maybe in your previous experience you just didn't get to that part.

Edit: By mentioning this I was referencing the "Unusable" comment in the other thread in regards to using a Hard Drive for the OS. Again, not stating that SSD is inferior to HD. Of course SSD is better.

I think what you're seeing is Superfetch and Prefetch, more than it is the drivers.

I can personally only see 2 reasons for not putting in an SSD into any build. HTPC or otherwise.
  • Extremely small budget: We're talking about the very bottom bare bones. I can get a 60GB SSD for the price difference between an i3 and a Celeron G530. I can purchase a slightly less expensive case or slightly less expensive or lower watt power supply. For 90% of builds, you should be able to find a compromise in some other area, or simply just save up and wait.
  • Ultimate reliability required: I've encountered enough SSD failures in the past few years to know that they are still not on par yet on failure rate. Even if you stick with only Samsung and the Intel (non-Sandforce based) SSDs, the failure rate is still far higher than with traditional spindle drives. For consumer use, I think an SSD and a good backup strategy is always to way to go. For the enterprise, it is a little dicier, since losing even an hour of uptime/productivity can be problematic. And of course, data loss is more financially devastating in the enterprise.

Where is the option for the kid who has never used anything other than SSDs?
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post #18 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Where is the option for the kid who has never used anything other than SSDs?

It's funny now but it will come. Years from now we might tell kids about how we used normal storage drives for OS installs... Lol

Like how we used to have black and white tv or before HDTV ... Or before the Internet lol...

SSD is same thing. It's a game changer.

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post #19 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Any reason x64 windows 7 drivers would not work on WHS2011 ??

They worked just fine on mine. Asrock H67 with G530.

Oh, also have an Intel NIC gigbit for my LAN.
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post #20 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 08:07 PM
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I don't really see their worth for traditional HTPC use. But then, it appears the trend is to use a computer in your livingroom for far more than just traditional HTPC activities.

-Suntan
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post #21 of 126 Old 04-29-2012, 08:36 PM
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Having just experienced the speed of SSD for the first time, all my future builds will have an SSD for the OS, and a HDD for storage (where required). I can afford the extra cost associated with having both so it is not an issue for me.

At the end of the day it is all about balancing the priorities of the user. For some, the extra speed justifies the extra cost. For others, that extra $100 may mean they have to make a sacrafice elsewhere in their lives. If I were budget constrained and needed storage, I'd stick a single HDD in the machine, put up with the performance hit, and use the $100 towards something else which I consider provides more value to my life, such as the fees for my daughter to play netball. There is never a one size fits all solution as everyone has their own utility curve.

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post #22 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 06:18 AM
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A lot of it depends on what your use is. I love the SSD on my main system, but would have no use for one (considering cost) on 2 HTPCs I use mainly for TV recording/playback. The HTPCs are rarely booted up and they need massive storage so there's just no real need for the speed of an SSD.
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post #23 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lsilvest View Post

A lot of it depends on what your use is. I love the SSD on my main system, but would have no use for one (considering cost) on 2 HTPCs I use mainly for TV recording/playback. The HTPCs are rarely booted up and they need massive storage so there's just no real need for the speed of an SSD.

I just posted a similar reply on another thread. I got a deal on one and after the final install it did seem to run much smoother in Media Center, but with prices dropping and me wanting to rebuild i'm thinking i may have jumped too soon.

I may do some htpc testing between my SSD and non-SSD in the next few days to see if its worth me keeping it or wait and do a rebuild with a bigger maybe cheaper drive by that time.

Also when you guys say you installed the drivers from website, does that include the chipset drivers? I never installed those and didnt think i ever had to.
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post #24 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 08:08 AM
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I have two htpc's one with an ssd and one with an hdd and the difference is noticeable but not night and day noticeable. Granted the ssd boot time is quicker than an hdd by about 20% but once the htpc's have booted I don't really notice much difference.

So would I buy an ssd again....yes, but I would also buy an hdd if I got a good deal.

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post #25 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Oh, also have an Intel NIC gigbit for my LAN.

Sure. Rub it into my face.

lol.

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post #26 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I just posted a similar reply on another thread. I got a deal on one and after the final install it did seem to run much smoother in Media Center, but with prices dropping and me wanting to rebuild i'm thinking i may have jumped too soon.

I may do some htpc testing between my SSD and non-SSD in the next few days to see if its worth me keeping it or wait and do a rebuild with a bigger maybe cheaper drive by that time.

Also when you guys say you installed the drivers from website, does that include the chipset drivers? I never installed those and didnt think i ever had to.

Yes. Install the chipset drivers.

Visit the motherboard MFG site and click your model and install the.

That stuff is there for a reason.

A stock Windows 7 disc from years back can't include everything it needs driver wise to run optimally.

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post #27 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 12:41 PM
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I also like SSD a lot and built the last few computers at home with them. But there does seems to be some issues with them after using quite a few SSDs in work computers.

We noted quite a bit of crashes after sleep modes. These are mostly Samsung made SSDs used in Lenovo notebooks. The closest I could tell is that the SSD did not finish TRIM operation and the computer went to sleep or powered down, then it would crash.

If the computer is not set to use sleep modes, then this problem doesn't show up.
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post #28 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 12:42 PM
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Sure. Rub it into my face.

lol.

You should get one. Probably one of the more important parts of the entire server, imo.
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post #29 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

You should get one. Probably one of the more important parts of the entire server, imo.

I know. It's like "the" feature.

besides having enough SATA ports, I can't think of anything I would rather have.

My Asus Z68 Deluxe has Intel (dual).

But I want it for my server board, and I want something cheaper.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #30 of 126 Old 04-30-2012, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dksc318 View Post

I also like SSD a lot and built the last few computers at home with them. But there does seems to be some issues with them after using quite a few SSDs in work computers.

We noted quite a bit of crashes after sleep modes. These are mostly Samsung made SSDs used in Lenovo notebooks. The closest I could tell is that the SSD did not finish TRIM operation and the computer went to sleep or powered down, then it would crash.

If the computer is not set to use sleep modes, then this problem doesn't show up.

I have a Patriot Pyro and my system goes to sleep often and I've never had a problem. Sounds like the problem is with Samsung or Lenovo.
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