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post #1 of 37 Old 05-26-2012, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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My SSD in one of my computers has gotten really slow lately. Whenever I'm downloading more than one file to it, it makes the whole system crawl. Is there anything I can do? I purchased this drive in 2009, I'm wondering if I should just upgrade? Is there any software out there that would let me just copy the drive to a new SSD and not have to re-install everything? I don't want to have to do that if possible.

Here are results:

AS SSD Benchmark 1.6.4237.30508
------------------------------
Name: Kingston SSDNow 128GB ATA Device
Firmware: VBM1801Q
Controller: pciide
Offset: 1024 K - OK
Size: 119.24 GB
Date: 5/26/2012 7:51:56 PM
------------------------------
Sequential:
------------------------------
Read: 119.82 MB/s
Write: 21.30 MB/s
------------------------------
4K:
------------------------------
Read: 22.30 MB/s
Write: 2.03 MB/s
------------------------------
4K-64Threads:
------------------------------
Read: 8.09 MB/s
Write: 0.19 MB/s
------------------------------
Access Times:
------------------------------
Read: 0.243 ms
Write: 1.215 ms
------------------------------
Score:
------------------------------
Read: 42
Write: 4
Total: 74
------------------------------
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post #2 of 37 Old 05-26-2012, 07:27 PM
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Are you using a TRIM-capable SSD, along with a TRIM-capable OS (i.e. Windows 7) with the TRIM command enabled in the OS?

One thing you can do to get the out-of-box performance back...

STEP 1: Make a backup image of the partition or partitions of the SSD.
STEP 2: Perform a secure erase on the SSD, which flashes it back to the blank, unformatted state it was in when you first got it.
STEP 3: Restore your paritition(s) back to your SSD using the backup software you used in Step 1.

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post #3 of 37 Old 05-26-2012, 07:32 PM
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Vlad gave an expert's advice.

Only thing I can add is in step 2, use a data pattern of "1111". New flash came with all 1's. Whenever there are 0's, then the SSD controller will do erase first, which is very slow.
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post #4 of 37 Old 05-27-2012, 07:13 AM
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I have a 64gb SSDNow in my htpc and it is slow. It seemed much slower after I installed an OCZ Vertex 2 in my desktop.

How full is the drive? You're using AHCI mode? Defrag and indexing is turned off?
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post #5 of 37 Old 05-27-2012, 07:26 AM
 
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It could be your SSD Alignment. It is a known problem. Take a look here for more info:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...alignment.html

The only tool I have ever found that fixes the SSD Alignment problem and also does not kill off your data is by Paragon, but it costs $30.

http://www.paragon-software.com/home...ent/index.html

You can easily check the SSD Alignment yourself by doing this:

In windows 7, run msinfo32 by typing it into the search box on your start menu and hitting enter. It is also found under Programs - Accessories - System Tools.
click on: components => storage => disks
Look for your SSD and check the partition starting offset.
It needs to be divisible by 4096 (ie return a whole number when you divide by this) otherwise the alignment is not correct.
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post #6 of 37 Old 05-27-2012, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

It could be your SSD Alignment. It is a known problem. Take a look here for more info:

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials...alignment.html

The only tool I have ever found that fixes the SSD Alignment problem and also does not kill off your data is by Paragon, but it costs $30.

http://www.paragon-software.com/home...ent/index.html

Good suggestion!

If the alignment is off, you could create an image of the drive as is, align the drive, and restore the partition. Some backup programs will return the drive to its original alignment during the restore process; however, if you have a WD or Seagate drive, use the most recent WD or Seagate version of Acronis which can be downloaded for free from the WD or Seagate website to create the partition and restore it. During the restore process, these versions of Acronis do not alter the alignment, unlike older versions of Acronis.

I have personally used this method and it's great.
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post #7 of 37 Old 05-27-2012, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions guys, the alignment seems ok, its evenly divisible by 4048.

For doign the backup image, should I just use the back and restore feature in windows? Make the backup image, do the secure erase, then restore it using the windows restore?

Thanks!
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post #8 of 37 Old 05-27-2012, 11:10 AM
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You don't need to do backup image. Just do the secure erase on free space. Once the 0s in free space are eliminated, performance should return. But erased file recovery no longer work after that because the data in erased files are gone.
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post #9 of 37 Old 05-28-2012, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Any suggestions on software for this, when I look it up theres a bunch of different options, and it seems like most talk about writing multiple times to the drive. Is there anything designed for doing this ssds?
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post #10 of 37 Old 05-28-2012, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy View Post

Any suggestions on software for this, when I look it up theres a bunch of different options, and it seems like most talk about writing multiple times to the drive. Is there anything designed for doing this ssds?

Yeah. Most SSD makers offer a toolkit that will write a drive to all 1s (erase it). With mechanical drives people use multiple passes because there are forensic techniques that can move the read head a micron or two and read what used to be on the drive. No such thing with an SSD as far as I know, so one pass is perfect.
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post #11 of 37 Old 05-29-2012, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

Yeah. Most SSD makers offer a toolkit that will write a drive to all 1s (erase it). With mechanical drives people use multiple passes because there are forensic techniques that can move the read head a micron or two and read what used to be on the drive. No such thing with an SSD as far as I know, so one pass is perfect.

I found some of those that wipe the whole drive, but someone above mentioned you only need to do it for empty space so you don't need to reinstall windows. I'd much prefer that method, but haven't found a good tool to do so.
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post #12 of 37 Old 05-30-2012, 08:08 PM
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Format it again ... delete partion. Create a new partition. Format that.

Clean install windows in ACHI SATA mode.

Problem solved.

There is no better solution. Nothing will give you as good performance as the option above.

Do it.

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post #13 of 37 Old 05-30-2012, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Format it again ... delete partion. Create a new partition. Format that.

Clean install windows in ACHI SATA mode.

Problem solved.

There is no better solution. Nothing will give you as good performance as the option above.

Do it.

The above formats and aligns correctly for ALL SSDs??
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post #14 of 37 Old 05-30-2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomandbeth View Post

The above formats and aligns correctly for ALL SSDs??

Deleting a partition and wiping a drive clean then creating a new partition and formating that and clean installing windows does not require the painful and often ineffective method of aligning a partition.

It's not needed and not worth it.

Fresh start is better

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post #15 of 37 Old 05-31-2012, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Deleting a partition and wiping a drive clean then creating a new partition and formating that and clean installing windows does not require the painful and often ineffective method of aligning a partition.

It's not needed and not worth it.

Fresh start is better

Thanks. I've been considering a fresh install for a couple of weeks. Finaly in a position where I'll have the time to do these right from the get go.
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post #16 of 37 Old 05-31-2012, 10:05 AM
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I didnt do all the steps on my ssd.

have fun!!!

Windows 7 Ultimate Tweaks & Utilities
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post #17 of 37 Old 05-31-2012, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomandbeth View Post

Thanks. I've been considering a fresh install for a couple of weeks. Finaly in a position where I'll have the time to do these right from the get go.

It is the way to go.

It is the only way to go.

If you make a list or email yourself hyperlinks to all the download sites you will need on a fresh install to get it up and running quick... it will save you lots of time.

I often do this on another machine while the windows7 Is installing

I do stuff like:

Adobe Reader
WINRAR
Thunderbird (like outlook but better and free)
CHROME
FIREFOX


The basics.

Then I do the HTPC stuff:

Mediabrowser
XBMC
SHARK007
Mediamaster
Jriver

SO everything I need is listed with hyperlinks.

Then when I get the new machine online I am ready to go.

After you update the windows with a few restarts your done.

Takes about 2 hours if you have a solid plan- and well worth the money.

You should make restore DVD or partition if possible once it is set up the way you want.

MAKE SURE YOU USE ACHI MODE for your SATA MODE in the BIOS!

Other than that- ignore all the tweaks people claim- it's just not worth the effort. Just install and use it normal- it should work great.

Good luck

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post #18 of 37 Old 06-01-2012, 01:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

It is the way to go.

It is the only way to go.

If you make a list or email yourself hyperlinks to all the download sites you will need on a fresh install to get it up and running quick... it will save you lots of time.

I often do this on another machine while the windows7 Is installing

I do stuff like:

Adobe Reader
WINRAR
Thunderbird (like outlook but better and free)
CHROME
FIREFOX


The basics.

Then I do the HTPC stuff:

Mediabrowser
XBMC
SHARK007
Mediamaster
Jriver

SO everything I need is listed with hyperlinks.

Then when I get the new machine online I am ready to go.

After you update the windows with a few restarts your done.

Takes about 2 hours if you have a solid plan- and well worth the money.

You should make restore DVD or partition if possible once it is set up the way you want.

MAKE SURE YOU USE ACHI MODE for your SATA MODE in the BIOS!

Other than that- ignore all the tweaks people claim- it's just not worth the effort. Just install and use it normal- it should work great.

Good luck

I'll have many of those on a USB stick, but from the looks of it we both prepare in advance. The MOBO is already set for AHCI so that part is done.

You've mentioned this in the past, but what has caused me issues in the past is jumping around in the guides and missing an important piece. Crap, I just spent way too much time with the Homerun Prime tonight. Every time I'd get it close it would give the "Playready" issue...then I found with the Cable Card Silverlight is critical (I had removed this some time ago). I'll have a laptop with the HTPC guides in order to follow them sequentially.

Anyway, I'm rambling on. But the bottom line is to have a plan along with the install links or executables of critical files (like the current MOBO ethernet driver). The goal is to re-install the OS on my main HTPC, which has been running for 2-3 years on the original install and updates.
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post #19 of 37 Old 06-01-2012, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomandbeth View Post

I'll have many of those on a USB stick, but from the looks of it we both prepare in advance. The MOBO is already set for AHCI so that part is done.

You've mentioned this in the past, but what has caused me issues in the past is jumping around in the guides and missing an important piece. Crap, I just spent way too much time with the Homerun Prime tonight. Every time I'd get it close it would give the "Playready" issue...then I found with the Cable Card Silverlight is critical (I had removed this some time ago). I'll have a laptop with the HTPC guides in order to follow them sequentially.

Anyway, I'm rambling on. But the bottom line is to have a plan along with the install links or executables of critical files (like the current MOBO ethernet driver). The goal is to re-install the OS on my main HTPC, which has been running for 2-3 years on the original install and updates.

It's worth the time and effort and yields best performance. Once your fine you will be happy you did

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post #20 of 37 Old 06-01-2012, 04:27 PM
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Would just like to mention, the OP seems to have an SSD with JMicron controller. Not sure if it's been updated to support TRIM but it's been known to degrade pretty badly performance-wise (even slower than HDDs) as time goes by. A secure erase should solve the issue but the problem will probably crop up again after a while. With recent sales on SSDs, it might be a good idea to switch to something with a more reliable controller (Crucial, Intel or Samsung).
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post #21 of 37 Old 06-01-2012, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Would just like to mention, the OP seems to have an SSD with JMicron controller. Not sure if it's been updated to support TRIM but it's been known to degrade pretty badly performance-wise (even slower than HDDs) as time goes by. A secure erase should solve the issue but the problem will probably crop up again after a while. With recent sales on SSDs, it might be a good idea to switch to something with a more reliable controller (Crucial, Intel or Samsung).

Sandforce controller drives are better and faster and cheaper than the suggestions you made above.

The Intel 330 possibly being an exception.(sandforce btw)

Sandforce for the win!

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post #22 of 37 Old 06-01-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Sandforce controller drives are better and faster and cheaper than the suggestions you made above.

The Intel 330 possibly being an exception.(sandforce btw)

Sandforce for the win!

Faster and cheaper yes. However, I did mention reliable, did I not? SF-based SSDs are still slightly worse than the competition in terms of reliability. Sure, all of them have their issues but SF seems to have more issues than most.
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post #23 of 37 Old 06-01-2012, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Faster and cheaper yes. However, I did mention reliable, did I not? SF-based SSDs are still slightly worse than the competition in terms of reliability. Sure, all of them have their issues but SF seems to have more issues than most.

That's crap. There is more Sandforce based drives out in the population than all the other controllers combined.

You should not read and believe so much you read on the interwebs...

Besides- Intel did extensive validation and testing with the Sandforce controller with the release of it's new series of drives.

Everyone knows Intel is the absolute tops in SSD reliability.

The Crucial is a poor choice- as the Samsung 830 generally outperforms in in all respects for the same price.

And the Sandforce drives- cost even less than that- and perform ever better.

If your worried about reliability- look for a drive with a 3 or 5 year warranty. There is lots of them available.

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post #24 of 37 Old 06-01-2012, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

That's crap. There is more Sandforce based drives out in the population than all the other controllers combined.

You should not read and believe so much you read on the interwebs...

Besides- Intel did extensive validation and testing with the Sandforce controller with the release of it's new series of drives.

Everyone knows Intel is the absolute tops in SSD reliability.

The Crucial is a poor choice- as the Samsung 830 generally outperforms in in all respects for the same price.

And the Sandforce drives- cost even less than that- and perform ever better.

If your worried about reliability- look for a drive with a 3 or 5 year warranty. There is lots of them available.

I'm guessing there are far more SSDs with Samsung and Intel controllers in the "wild" compared to SandForce. Samsung has been making SSDs for years (unbranded for OEMs) while it appears Intel is the preferred choice for corporate.

Intel did extensive validation and testing with the SF-2000 controller and as far as I'm aware, rolled out some changes to the firmware. Not sure if those firmware changes have been released to other SF-2000 SSD manufacturers. The Intel 330/520 are probably the only SandForce-based drives I'd buy right now (the $60 rebate on the Intel 330 180GB, $199 was a pretty nice deal ). Alas, I've got 2 dead SandForce drives (OCZ Vertex 2 50GB & OCZ Agility 2 90GB - both not recognized in BIOS) so I'm not particularly trusting of non-Intel SandForce at the moment.

Nowadays, Crucial m4s cost around the same as Vertex 3 drives so between the 2, I'd opt for the Crucial. Besides, while benchmarks might show quite a significant difference in performance, in real life use it'll be barely noticeable particularly for a playback only HTPC.
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post #25 of 37 Old 06-02-2012, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshy View Post

I found some of those that wipe the whole drive, but someone above mentioned you only need to do it for empty space so you don't need to reinstall windows. I'd much prefer that method, but haven't found a good tool to do so.

I've used a freeware called Eraser. You have to look for an older version than make a custom data pattern of 1111s. Newest version doesn't allow custom data pattern anymore.

You only need to "clean" free space because SSD doesn't care about fragmentation.
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post #26 of 37 Old 06-02-2012, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

I'm guessing there are far more SSDs with Samsung and Intel controllers in the "wild" compared to SandForce. Samsung has been making SSDs for years (unbranded for OEMs) while it appears Intel is the preferred choice for corporate.

And I am guessing your wrong. Even Intel uses Sandforce. More MFG’s use sandforce than any other. And- The Sandforce drives tend to sell well and for low street prices. You would be surprised how many are out there. It’s certainly significant. So whatever argument your trying to construct - if it’s based on not many Sandforce controller SSD’s out in operation your dead wrong. Aside from that- I don’t think it matters who really has the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Nowadays, Crucial m4s cost around the same as Vertex 3 drives so between the 2, I'd opt for the Crucial. Besides, while benchmarks might show quite a significant difference in performance, in real life use it'll be barely noticeable particularly for a playback only HTPC.

In my opinion you would also be wrong. The Crucial costs more and performs less. I see more problems with people complaining about these drives than any other. I got a lemon myself. I hate my Crucial M4. I moved it to a PC that get's little use. My replacement from Crucial is still not as good as the cheaper Sandforce drives I own. Real world experience has taught me the Crucial is not as good; I like the Sandforce drives. I have 15+ and never had a problem with them.

If your afraid of Sandforce Controllers- Then a Samsung 830 is a much better choice than a Crucial M4.
Informed consumers would and should choose the Samsung over the Crucial. It’s better for the same price.


Here is a good quote from Tom’s hardware this month on the SSD chart:

“In contrast, the behavior of Samsung's drive doesn't change based on the information it handles, and the 830-series drives are arguably the fastest MLC-based offerings available, generally outpacing Crucial's m4. If you look at retail prices, the 830 costs just as much as the m4, too, making Samsung's SSD the better deal.”

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3194-3.html

For the 128GB size the Samsung 830 is the top choice for the ~$125 price range. It’s certaintly a better choice than the M4. And this is only for people who don’t want a faster and better Sandforce Toggle Nand 120GB SSD drive for $99. That is probably the best choice for value and the fear of the Sandforce controllers while popular – is misplaced.

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post #27 of 37 Old 06-02-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I like the Sandforce drives. I have 15+ and never had a problem with them.

I have 4 SandForce SSDs (1st gen) and two of them are dead (not recognized by BIOS). One is at 86% drive health despite not getting used as much as my Intel SSDs (which are still at 98~100% drive health). This is the primary reason I'm not happy with SF at the moment. I've had very good experience with all my 2nd gen Intel SSDs (bought on pretty good sales).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

If your afraid of Sandforce Controllers- Then a Samsung 830 is a much better choice than a Crucial M4.
Informed consumers would and should choose the Samsung over the Crucial. It's better for the same price.

Have you checked prices recently? From Newegg:

Crucial M4 64GB: $64.99
OCZ Agility 3 60GB: $64.99 ($54.99 AR)
OCZ Vertex 3 60GB: $74.99 ($59.99 AR)
Samsung 830 64GB: $79.99

Crucial M4 128GB: $124.99 (often goes on sale for $99.99 recently)
OCZ Agility 3 120GB: $104.99 ($89.99 AR)
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB: $109.99 ($99.99 AR)
Samsung 830 128GB: $144.99

Crucial M4 256GB: $199.99
OCZ Agility 3 240GB: $209.99 ($189.99 AR)
OCZ Vertex 3 240GB: $229.99 ($209.99 AR)
Samsung 830 256GB: $269.99

Crucial M4 512GB: $419.99
OCZ Agility 3 480GB: $449.99 ($429.99 AR)
OCZ Vertex 3 480GB: $649.99
Samsung 830 512GB: $699.99

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Here is a good quote from Tom's hardware this month on the SSD chart:

In contrast, the behavior of Samsung's drive doesn't change based on the information it handles, and the 830-series drives are arguably the fastest MLC-based offerings available, generally outpacing Crucial's m4. If you look at retail prices, the 830 costs just as much as the m4, too, making Samsung's SSD the better deal.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3194-3.html

For the 128GB size the Samsung 830 is the top choice for the ~$125 price range. It's certaintly a better choice than the M4.

Prices fluctuate daily. When that review was written, I reckon that might've been true but it's been rendered moot in a span of just a few days.

From that same article:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

At the end of the day, the real-world differences between SSDs in a desktop environment aren't altogether very different. The most important jump happens when you go from a hard drive to (almost) any SSD.

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post #28 of 37 Old 06-02-2012, 12:35 PM
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I think crucial sucks. Just like you dislike your dead drives. I dislike mine.

We can agree to disagree.

I would not buy one. (M4) [it's slow, less reliable and costs more]

You can get a Vertex3 Sandforce SATAIII or a Mushkin Chronos in 60GB sizes for $59. Both are top recommended on Toms hardware.


That article is from MAY 2012. It's the most recent update to the SSD recommended list.

BTW- The Mushkin Enhanced Chronos Deluxe is the recommendation below the 128GB Samsung 830 over the CRUCIAL because it's cheaper and faster.

the 120GB is only $89 now too and a better drive IMO. It's what was recommended for the $110 price point over the M4.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820226236

$89 no rebates. and it has TOGGLE NAND inside.

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #29 of 37 Old 06-02-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

That article is from MAY 2012. It's the most recent update to the SSD recommended list.

I know. It was published May 29, 2012 and yet, just a few days after it's been published, there have been pretty significant price drops. If you check the article, their best SSD for $90 is a Chronos 90GB when you can now get a Chronos 120GB for the same price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

BTW- The Mushkin Enhanced Chronos Deluxe is the recommendation below the 128GB Samsung 830 over the CRUCIAL because it's cheaper and faster.

the 120GB is only $89 now too and a better drive IMO. It's what was recommended for the $110 price point over the M4.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820226236

$89 no rebates. and it has TOGGLE NAND inside.

That's not a Chronos Deluxe. That's a Chronos with async NAND similar to the Agility 3. The Chronos Deluxe 120GB with Toggle NAND goes for $120. I agree, though, $90 for a 120GB SSD with a good controller is an amazing deal. At that price, it's a no brainer. If I was in the market for a 120GB SSD, that's what I would get. However, I have my eyes set on getting 240/256GB and 480/512GB SSDs and unfortunately, there isn't a deal as good as the Chronos 120GB for $90 in those capacities.
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post #30 of 37 Old 06-02-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

I know. It was published May 29, 2012 and yet, just a few days after it's been published, there have been pretty significant price drops. If you check the article, their best SSD for $90 is a Chronos 90GB when you can now get a Chronos 120GB for the same price.

I think they're listing "normal" prices, not the cheapest specials, because the prices in those monthly listings are always a little high.
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