Are You Looking For A Less Expensive Norco 4220 / 4224 Alternative? - Page 64 - AVS Forum
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post #1891 of 2370 Old 10-10-2013, 02:07 PM
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Thanks alot man, I am also really looking to get one myself so I can have all of my movies in one place. So you have 3x 24 drive bays? That's amazing smile.gif I also want 24 but I am reading this thread backwards and I see some people suggestion 48 ones. Is that reasonable?

If I understand correctly Tamsolutions sells used parts? Also wow I didn't know that SM case was $1k+. I will definitely get SM then.

Also is there a place that lists the specs of that build?

I see some people buying very high end specs like:
32GB RAM, etc

Is that necessary for a RAID system? I know the importance of hardware for software, but I don't know what you need as hardware parts for a RAID system.

Thanks again smile.gif
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post #1892 of 2370 Old 10-10-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent2k6 View Post

Thanks alot man, I am also really looking to get one myself so I can have all of my movies in one place. So you have 3x 24 drive bays? That's amazing smile.gif I also want 24 but I am reading this thread backwards and I see some people suggestion 48 ones. Is that reasonable?

If I understand correctly Tamsolutions sells used parts? Also wow I didn't know that SM case was $1k+. I will definitely get SM then.

Also is there a place that lists the specs of that build?

I see some people buying very high end specs like:
32GB RAM, etc

Is that necessary for a RAID system? I know the importance of hardware for software, but I don't know what you need as hardware parts for a RAID system.

Thanks again smile.gif

In most cases, you will do just fine with a single 24 bay unit. Some here have greater needs or want to expand hence the extra units. 8GB RAM for the server is more than enough for simple file serving. It all depends on what your needs are. If you plan to transcode at all then a quad core would be best. Most of the server hardware in these machines are older, but more than enough to get the job done.

Contact info for Tams is on the first page of this thread. You'll be addicted in no time!
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post #1893 of 2370 Old 10-10-2013, 04:32 PM
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Thanks alot for replying. Yeah I imagine 24 should be good for me. Ok that makes sense. I also need it mostly for storage with occasional movie watching (1 file only).

Do you guys know if Tamsolutions make different builds everytime on ebay or the exact same one? Because I see here people buying different builds from them.

Also some people here build from scratch while others buy from Tamsolutions?

As for fans, should I get these 140mm fans posted here?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233031

Someone was asking about drilling. Are these fans larger than the screw holes i.e. larger than the built-in fans?

I am slowly clearing my mind as I also read the threads and other sites.

Thanks again smile.gif
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post #1894 of 2370 Old 10-11-2013, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent2k6 View Post

Thanks alot for replying. Yeah I imagine 24 should be good for me. Ok that makes sense. I also need it mostly for storage with occasional movie watching (1 file only).

Do you guys know if Tamsolutions make different builds everytime on ebay or the exact same one? Because I see here people buying different builds from them.

Also some people here build from scratch while others buy from Tamsolutions?

As for fans, should I get these 140mm fans posted here?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233031

Someone was asking about drilling. Are these fans larger than the screw holes i.e. larger than the built-in fans?

I am slowly clearing my mind as I also read the threads and other sites.

Thanks again smile.gif

Tams only sells server units that they purchase from datacenters that are swapping out their equipment for newer hardware. So basically what Tams sells is what you will usually get; but they do ensure that each unit is fully functional before they sell it. The customer service there is top notch and the people i've talked with are very nice. There's two basic models that they sell: the SM 846 Chassis that has the AMD board, CPU and related hardware, and the AIC chassis which has the Intel board. A call to them will usually get you what they currently have in inventory.

Drilling and such shouldn't be necessary. There was an older server chassis that was sold (AIC) that took more work to mod in order to make it more home-friendly. With the SM chassis you won't have to go through that trouble of modding, just swapping fans pretty much.

As for your question on the fans, check out the older pages of this thread (page 40-up IIRC) there were some pics that were posted on their setup and how they worked with the fans.
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post #1895 of 2370 Old 10-11-2013, 02:41 PM
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Thanks alot man. It really helped. I also contacted them and will dedicate today and the weekend to read more about this stuff.

Though I am in Canada, and based on my search on this thread, they don't ship here? If so, my option would be to get Norco 4224 and use similar parts inside. Do you guys see any issues with this idea? I just don't know what parts would be good to use that are cheap and fast enough for storage and playback of a single file by a single device, which is what the majority here uses them I guess?

So far I wrote down:
Norco 4224
Corsair HX850
XLF-F1453 140mm LED Orange Case Fan


Which CPU, mobo and RAM would be best? Should I get at least 8GB DDR3? I would appreciate any advice.

For instance someone here mentioned using:
Dual 1207-pin Socket F with 1 AMD Opteron Quad Core 2346HE @ 1.8GHz

It looks like this is around $20 on ebay. But does it matter if you use something like that or say:
Intel Xeon E3-1230 V2 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo) LGA 1155 69W Quad-Core Server Processor

I know that Xeon is way more expensive, but would you see any difference in performance for storage operations i.e. parity, validation, checks, etc. I assume they are fairly limited by disks but maybe the calculations use a lot of CPU?



Thanks again guys smile.gif
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post #1896 of 2370 Old 10-12-2013, 01:44 PM
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I want to first thank you for finding this amazing product and sharing it with the AVS family. Hope all has been well for you.

I've recently picked up one of the QC SuperMicro servers and had a few questions about it and thought you could possibly help me.

A little background about my plan for this server: It will run WHS2011 w/ FlexRaid. It will be used for a media storage and file backups over two separate pools

1. What size PSU would you recommend for all 24 drives filled (2TB drives) with one 64GB SSD? Someone said I should get a 1200w PSU to handle the startup of all drives at once but then I see people with 750-850 PSUs in thisthread.
2. Do you think the dual Intel CPUs (Intel E5310) would handle video processing/encoding better than dual AMD Opteron 2384?
3. Is having S3 sleep recommended for a server that is in a sound isolated closet?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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post #1897 of 2370 Old 10-12-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carisma View Post

I want to first thank you for finding this amazing product and sharing it with the AVS family. Hope all has been well for you.

I've recently picked up one of the QC SuperMicro servers and had a few questions about it and thought you could possibly help me.

A little background about my plan for this server: It will run WHS2011 w/ FlexRaid. It will be used for a media storage and file backups over two separate pools

1. What size PSU would you recommend for all 24 drives filled (2TB drives) with one 64GB SSD? Someone said I should get a 1200w PSU to handle the startup of all drives at once but then I see people with 750-850 PSUs in thisthread.
2. Do you think the dual Intel CPUs (Intel E5310) would handle video processing/encoding better than dual AMD Opteron 2384?
3. Is having S3 sleep recommended for a server that is in a sound isolated closet?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I had a 650W Antec Tripower in mine, it worked fine. AVTechman has it now, you can see how he feels about it.

Looky here!
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post #1898 of 2370 Old 10-12-2013, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carisma View Post

I want to first thank you for finding this amazing product and sharing it with the AVS family. Hope all has been well for you.

I've recently picked up one of the QC SuperMicro servers and had a few questions about it and thought you could possibly help me.

A little background about my plan for this server: It will run WHS2011 w/ FlexRaid. It will be used for a media storage and file backups over two separate pools

1. What size PSU would you recommend for all 24 drives filled (2TB drives) with one 64GB SSD? Someone said I should get a 1200w PSU to handle the startup of all drives at once but then I see people with 750-850 PSUs in thisthread.
2. Do you think the dual Intel CPUs (Intel E5310) would handle video processing/encoding better than dual AMD Opteron 2384?
3. Is having S3 sleep recommended for a server that is in a sound isolated closet?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

I had a 650W Antec Tripower in mine, it worked fine. AVTechman has it now, you can see how he feels about it.

I finally received the flashed Dell H310 HBA today (Thanks Andy!) and plugged it in, works like a charm and OS picked it up with no problem.

For Carisma:

A 1200W power supply is utterly unnecessary for your server, and it has been noted that PSU's of that wattage may not do a complete good job of properly powering the drives. There were some posts in the earlier parts of the thread that explained it. You should do just fine with either a 750 or 850 watt supply. The server I have now that I bought from Robnix has the 650 watt supply and though I don't have all 24 bays filled right now, it runs pretty strong and stable for the few I do have.

For transcoding, a single quad core will do fine, but you can't go wrong in adding a second CPU, especially since they are cheap for beans on ebay. My other SM box I picked up a second Opteron 2384 and transcodes my high-bitrate movies fine using Remote Potato and MB3. The current server I have has the Xeon E5405, in which I added a second one but have yet to test the transcoding since I don't have the machine setup yet. But you should do fine with either platform.

For server sleep, its not really any point in using S3 mode. A server is designed to run 24/7 and putting it to sleep will put more wear on the drives when the system has to spin them all back up, especially for 24 drives. So just leaving it on is best. And if the server will be located in an isolated closet where noise won't be an issue, then you will do just fine.
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post #1899 of 2370 Old 10-12-2013, 04:51 PM
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Btw I got this one guys:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151128996482

It seems like they ship some of them to Canada, even though here it said they don't. But some auctions show that they don't.

Do you guys know which fans are the best for replacements to make it quiet? I only saw someone mention XLF 140mm ones. Not sure about the case fans apart from the pictures people posted. I also read some mention of Noctua for being good for silence but not as good in performance.

What's the most popular choices people are using here for this setup? I assume most people use the same thing just like Corsair HX850?


Thanks again guys smile.gif
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post #1900 of 2370 Old 10-12-2013, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

A 1200W power supply is utterly unnecessary for your server, and it has been noted that PSU's of that wattage may not do a complete good job of properly powering the drives. There were some posts in the earlier parts of the thread that explained it. You should do just fine with either a 750 or 850 watt supply. The server I have now that I bought from Robnix has the 650 watt supply and though I don't have all 24 bays filled right now, it runs pretty strong and stable for the few I do have.
So I could go for a high quality 750w PSU and not have to worry about power shortages?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

For transcoding, a single quad core will do fine, but you can't go wrong in adding a second CPU, especially since they are cheap for beans on ebay. My other SM box I picked up a second Opteron 2384 and transcodes my high-bitrate movies fine using Remote Potato and MB3. The current server I have has the Xeon E5405, in which I added a second one but have yet to test the transcoding since I don't have the machine setup yet. But you should do fine with either platform.
That's good to know as I was going to purchase two Opteron 2384's after I was able to update the BIOS on the current setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

For server sleep, its not really any point in using S3 mode. A server is designed to run 24/7 and putting it to sleep will put more wear on the drives when the system has to spin them all back up, especially for 24 drives. So just leaving it on is best. And if the server will be located in an isolated closet where noise won't be an issue, then you will do just fine.
Thanks for the clarification smile.gif

One last question...would you recommend Western Digital Reds or Seagate Barracuda storage drives?
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post #1901 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carisma View Post

So I could go for a high quality 750w PSU and not have to worry about power shortages?
That's good to know as I was going to purchase two Opteron 2384's after I was able to update the BIOS on the current setup.
Thanks for the clarification smile.gif

One last question...would you recommend Western Digital Reds or Seagate Barracuda storage drives?

There's no need to buy "NAS" SATA drives for these chassis and controllers. The advanced settings that these drives have over their SATA counterparts aren't usually supported in cheap JBOD controllers. They do perform well, but you need to decide whether the extra performance is with the added cost.

The Barracudas have been replaced by the "Desktop" line. They perform very well for a 5900RPM drive and have power consumption and heat output ratings that are among the lowest around.

Looky here!
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post #1902 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 01:29 PM
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Since I long for the days of the five year warranty, I buy Reds to get three years...

disk____months__price____price/month

green___36_____$128.99___$3.58
red_____48_____$146.99___$3.06
black____60____$219.99____$3.67
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post #1903 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 01:40 PM
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^Your numbers are not correct for months and price/month.
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post #1904 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 03:07 PM
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^Your numbers are not correct for months and price/month.

Derp.

Green $5.37
Red $4.08
Black $3.67
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post #1905 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 06:09 PM
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There's no need to buy "NAS" SATA drives for these chassis and controllers. The advanced settings that these drives have over their SATA counterparts aren't usually supported in cheap JBOD controllers. They do perform well, but you need to decide whether the extra performance is with the added cost.

The Barracudas have been replaced by the "Desktop" line. They perform very well for a 5900RPM drive and have power consumption and heat output ratings that are among the lowest around.

Yup.

The only reason to spend more on WD drive is because you prefer a drive that is slower, or you like the color RED or GREEN on your HDD label. Aside from that, I see little point. WD has gone seriously downhill in recent times, with their drives being overpriced, and underperformers. 5400rpm is too low RPM and 5900rpm of Seagate is a better balance between performance and power savings, and WD has totally failed to deliver any reasonably priced 7200rpm drive in 3TB or 4TB sizes for consumers. BIG FAIL WD.

Hitachi/Toshiba/Seagate > WD for both performance and low price (two most important things to me)

I will give credit to WD creative marketing dept that has successfully created the false idea RED is somehow worth $30 more because they are more reliable. (lol at that) They are nearly identical inside (review took them apart) to the GREEN models with a few minor changes to firmware to play nice in 24/7 NAS. (TLER and headparking disabled)

A hard drive is a hard drive. They are basically all the same, get the cheaper one. If they are the same price, get the faster one or the one with lowest energy (pick what is important to you) Newegg had the Hitachi 4TB for $129, Costco sells the Seagate 5900rpm 4Tb for $139. I routinely buy Toshiba 3TB and Seagate 3TB 7200rpm drives for $79-$99 each. Lol at people thinking a RED 3TB for $135 is a good "sale" haha.
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post #1906 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 06:31 PM
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Yup.

The only reason to spend more on WD drive is because you prefer a drive that is slower, or you like the color RED or GREEN on your HDD label. Aside from that, I see little point. WD has gone seriously downhill in recent times, with their drives being overpriced, and underperformers. 5400rpm is too low RPM and 5900rpm of Seagate is a better balance between performance and power savings, and WD has totally failed to deliver any reasonably priced 7200rpm drive in 3TB or 4TB sizes for consumers. BIG FAIL WD.

Hitachi/Toshiba/Seagate > WD for both performance and low price (two most important things to me)

I will give credit to WD creative marketing dept that has successfully created the false idea RED is somehow worth $30 more because they are more reliable. (lol at that) They are nearly identical inside (review took them apart) to the GREEN models with a few minor changes to firmware to play nice in 24/7 NAS. (TLER and headparking disabled)

A hard drive is a hard drive. They are basically all the same, get the cheaper one. If they are the same price, get the faster one or the one with lowest energy (pick what is important to you) Newegg had the Hitachi 4TB for $129, Costco sells the Seagate 5900rpm 4Tb for $139. I routinely buy Toshiba 3TB and Seagate 3TB 7200rpm drives for $79-$99 each. Lol at people thinking a RED 3TB for $135 is a good "sale" haha.
Awesome! $130-140 for a 4TB drive is definitely a good price. Where do you find 3TB drives for under $100?
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post #1907 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 06:50 PM
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Awesome! $130-140 for a 4TB drive is definitely a good price. Where do you find 3TB drives for under $100?

If you sign up for the $25 off $100 coupons from staples and catch a sale on the 3TB seagate you get it for $75 biggrin.gif

Costco sells the externals (with the most excellent 7200.14 inside) for $99 no rebates everyday. And also the $139 for the 4TB (4TB is only 5900rpm mad.gif )

Newegg had the Hitachi 4TB for $129 recently, and also the Toshiba 3TB for $99 (OEM)

I like to use slickdeals.net on my iphone, it alerts me to good HDD deals. Also the "great deals found" forum here in the HTPC forum typically posts good HDD prices.

I would give this thread a read:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1460910/wd-red-vs-wd-green-vs-seagate-3tb-hard-drive-speeds/0_100

Lot of talk about hard drive differences, and also where and how to get deals on certain models.

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post #1908 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 07:40 PM
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@Mfusick: Are Hitachi HDDs any good? I never hear anyone talking about them but if they are cheaper like you said I will get them. Though when I did a search last year, people were saying Hitachi HDDs fail a lot and have bad rep because of their deathstar.

Also how do you find them for 139 on newegg? Cheapest I see is 179.

Thanks smile.gif
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I only use Hitachi or WD. Seagate is dead to me. Will not use Seagate even if they are given to for free.
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post #1910 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 08:14 PM
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Does anyone have this server maxed out on HDDs? I'm curious what the power draw is from the wall.
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post #1911 of 2370 Old 10-13-2013, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent2k6 View Post

@Mfusick: Are Hitachi HDDs any good? I never hear anyone talking about them but if they are cheaper like you said I will get them. Though when I did a search last year, people were saying Hitachi HDDs fail a lot and have bad rep because of their deathstar.

Also how do you find them for 139 on newegg? Cheapest I see is 179.

Thanks smile.gif


Yes Hitachi is very good. I've seen data in past showing they are the most reliable. I've also seen data showing they are not... Lol.

Basically a hard drive is a hard drive.

Anyone that hold a grudge or bias for or against one mfg or another is just silly. All HDD mfg can make a good model or a bad, and even inside a model line there can be good or bad batches. By the time you figure it out there is a totally new model out that's in no way at all related or indicative or predicated on what might have been with previous generations.

Saying you had trouble with a HDD brand back when HDDs were 250GB, so you don't buy a 4TB from them makes no sense. But I see it all the time around here.

Hard drive is a hard drive and Hitachi is perfectly fine.
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post #1912 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 09:28 AM
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Everyone has their own preferences on HDDs. I personally aim for low power consumption and most warranty, and no Seagate. Drives will fail, and I'd rather have the warranty to replace them. That used to be Hitachi green few years ago, now WD Red when it is on sale. Yes, it is not the cheapest drive, but it matches my criteria. There is absolutely no point getting fast drives when you're building arrays of 6-10 drives. My 10 drive array can easily do 600-700MB/s. On average that's about 10 times faster than Gigabit Ethernet....

I currently have 16 + 1 drives, and under full load my server draws about 190W. I imagine if I add another 6 drives to fill the chassis, I'll go to about 230W under full load. FWIW, my PSU is 450W rated. Can't imagine needing a 1.2KW PSU...
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post #1913 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 09:42 AM
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Do you guys know how to install an OS without a DVD drive and GFX card? Or does the mobo used by Tams have a VGA built-in? I never installed Windows from USB drive before.

Also Win 7 or WHS? I never used WHS so not sure if there are advantages to that.
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post #1914 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
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Do you guys know how to install an OS without a DVD drive and GFX card? Or does the mobo used by Tams have a VGA built-in? I never installed Windows from USB drive before.

Also Win 7 or WHS? I never used WHS so not sure if there are advantages to that.

The mobos have built-in GPU so you can plug a monitor to the VGA of the mobo. Low res but it works anyways.
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post #1915 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 10:16 AM
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Do you guys know how to install an OS without a DVD drive and GFX card? Or does the mobo used by Tams have a VGA built-in? I never installed Windows from USB drive before.

Also Win 7 or WHS? I never used WHS so not sure if there are advantages to that.


There is instructions and links to download the ISO of windows, and make a bootable USB stick in my server thread. I install like this all the time. Very easy. Also instructions how to install WHS to a drive smaller than 160GB (like a 60GB SSD)

You can also search for an old thread I started called "possible to install windows pro from USB" which should get you going too.
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post #1916 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 10:33 AM
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Thanks alot guys, I am onto looking for those threads.

After installing the OS, I am still confused about 2 things:

1. How will I copy files from my actual PC to this RAID server? Using an ethernet cable?

2. How do you control and monitor the server from your main PC? I only have 2 monitors but I am using them with my main PC. I can temporarily hook my 2nd LCD to install the OS, but I don't want to continually plug/unplug, anytime I want to check it out.

I mean you know how for example Windows asksfor updates, messages pop up, etc. It would be nice if I could check these and the status of the server from my main PC. And restart or shut it down just like I am using my main PC.

Should I be using something like logmein?


Thanks smile.gif
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post #1917 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 10:39 AM
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I use Windows Home Server 2011 on my flexraid server (I run software raid) and it was $35. I just RDP to my server from my desktop when I want to control it like this:




It's really easy just click it smile.gif


Sometimes I maximize the server window on my second monitor and use it as a totally second machine to do other stuff, it's like having two machines connected to the same keyboard and mouse.

You can do the same thing with windows (instead of WHS)

Lots of talk about server set up here:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438027/mfusicks-how-to-build-an-affordable-30tb-flexraid-media-server-information-requested/0_100


It's buried in there somewhere but lots of good info. There is some cliff notes about half way through...
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post #1918 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 10:46 AM
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Thanks alot man, your thread is full of great info, I just started reading it smile.gif

I haven't done this stuff before so it was eluding me, so hopefully I will do it easily when I get my server smile.gif
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post #1919 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 10:52 AM
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Also sorry I forgot the other point. How do you transfer the files between computers? Via ethernet cable, right? Not sure if it's explained in your thread but I assume that's how it's done.
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post #1920 of 2370 Old 10-14-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent2k6 View Post

Also sorry I forgot the other point. How do you transfer the files between computers? Via ethernet cable, right? Not sure if it's explained in your thread but I assume that's how it's done.

Mine is done all via gigabit Ethernet. I usually max it out so over 100MB/s. I could do esata but the speeds are not that much faster and I would have manually go down there and plug it in.
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