Are You Looking For A Less Expensive Norco 4220 / 4224 Alternative? - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 2365 Old 12-01-2014, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
Yeah you are right the SQ models are are rather pricey. The cheapest I have seen them is $200ish. I haven't seen the PWS-920P-1R for less than $150. Feel free to share where you found them between $70-$90
Ebay haha, but looks like the seller I bought 2 from sold out. Seems like it's still around $80-$100 with shipping for the few on eBay currently
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post #2342 of 2365 Old 12-01-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rc05 View Post
Ebay haha, but looks like the seller I bought 2 from sold out. Seems like it's still around $80-$100 with shipping for the few on eBay currently
Thanks for the heads up.... I completely forgot to check eBay!
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post #2343 of 2365 Old 12-01-2014, 12:06 PM
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Ebay haha, but looks like the seller I bought 2 from sold out. Seems like it's still around $80-$100 with shipping for the few on eBay currently
Found some on the bay. Now the million dollar question is if the difference between the PWS-920P-1R and PWS-920P-SQ with quite mode is worth extra $100+ per PSU. The original PSU PWS-902-1R sounds like your getting a hair cut with a vacuum cleaner instead of clippers.
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post #2344 of 2365 Old 12-01-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
Found some on the bay. Now the million dollar question is if the difference between the PWS-920P-1R and PWS-920P-SQ with quite mode is worth extra $100+ per PSU. The original PSU PWS-902-1R sounds like your getting a hair cut with a vacuum cleaner instead of clippers.
I had the PWS-902-1R and replaced it with the PWS-920P-1R. The PWS-920P-1R wasn't as quiet as I thought it was going to be, but it's still much quieter than the PWS-902-1R. I can't hear it from the other room anymore, and I can sit next to it too! It sounds like a medium size fan blowing I guess. I haven't tried the -SQ model since it's much more expensive.
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post #2345 of 2365 Old 12-01-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rc05 View Post
I had the PWS-902-1R and replaced it with the PWS-920P-1R. The PWS-920P-1R wasn't as quiet as I thought it was going to be, but it's still much quieter than the PWS-902-1R. I can't hear it from the other room anymore, and I can sit next to it too! It sounds like a medium size fan blowing I guess. I haven't tried the -SQ model since it's much more expensive.

Anything has to sound better than a jet taking off in your ear. Thanks for your honest review. I'm on the fence but the boss aka my pocket is leaning towards the PWS-920P-1R. Its really hard not to choose the PWS-920P-1R. The SQ models are 2.5 x the price of the 920p. I would need to get 2.5 X the experience for that price LOL. Thanks once again!!
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post #2346 of 2365 Old 12-02-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
Found some on the bay. Now the million dollar question is if the difference between the PWS-920P-1R and PWS-920P-SQ with quite mode is worth extra $100+ per PSU. The original PSU PWS-902-1R sounds like your getting a hair cut with a vacuum cleaner instead of clippers.
SQ is more quite. and this is the newest model from supermicro and 80 platinum( as you mentioned).

you can search 1K2P which is very low noise when loaded below 30%.
the key is PWM fans, only OLD supermicro server is using non PWM fans.

as I know, if you are using 920P within 30% range (~250W), the fan will running low with air pressured noise.
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post #2347 of 2365 Old 12-02-2014, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
Anything has to sound better than a jet taking off in your ear. Thanks for your honest review. I'm on the fence but the boss aka my pocket is leaning towards the PWS-920P-1R. Its really hard not to choose the PWS-920P-1R. The SQ models are 2.5 x the price of the 920p. I would need to get 2.5 X the experience for that price LOL. Thanks once again!!
get 1K2P than 920P, if the cost is negligible.
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post #2348 of 2365 Old 12-02-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cantalup View Post
SQ is more quite. and this is the newest model from supermicro and 80 platinum( as you mentioned).

you can search 1K2P which is very low noise when loaded below 30%.
the key is PWM fans, only OLD supermicro server is using non PWM fans.

as I know, if you are using 920P within 30% range (~250W), the fan will running low with air pressured noise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantalup View Post
get 1K2P than 920P, if the cost is negligible.

If I could hear the difference between the PWS-920P-1R and PWS-920P-SQ, it would really help with the process. I was not aware that the fans in the PSU were PWM.

2*PWS-920P-SQ cost ~$400 and 2*PWS-920P-1R cost ~$160 That'sa big difference in price. are you currently using the PWS-920P-SQ?
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post #2349 of 2365 Old 12-02-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
If I could hear the difference between the PWS-920P-1R and PWS-920P-SQ, it would really help with the process. I was not aware that the fans in the PSU were PWM.

2*PWS-920P-SQ cost ~$400 and 2*PWS-920P-1R cost ~$160 That'sa big difference in price. are you currently using the PWS-920P-SQ?
Not on SQ. some member on serverthehome and hardforum forums have that. pricey but worthed it you need "quite" PSU
you need just one for home user . P-SQ is less fan noise that P. SQ-> supermicro style of Super Quite ().

I have 920P and 1K21P, this is depend on the load. < 30% fan run low rpm (thanks for PWM fan).
the best home user for low rpm fan running is using 10%-15% maximal of watt. EX: maximal usage is ~150W for 920P, or ~180W for 1K2P. I am assuming that no temperature control aka AC involved in home user, which room/house temperature will has fluctuation down and up.

you will know whay supermicro put "P" aka PWM :P...

ditch out old PSU that high noise fan (non PWM) and non efficient power usage.

Pick 920P or 1K21P, I prefer 1K21P where the price difference is minimal on ebay( 2 weeks ago).
--------------
P is 80 gold
P-SQ is 80 platinum where more effiecent than P.
------------
you can not compare quiteness with desktop PSU, Such as: seasonic 750W X or other mid to high desktop PSU.
desktop PSU is more quite than server psu.

-------
1k21P -> www. ebay. com/itm/POWER-SUPPLY-SUPERMICRO-PWS-1K21P-1R-SWITCHING-1200W-SERVER-POWER-SUPPLY-1U-/171530599475?pt=US_Server_Power_Supplies&hash=item 27f0053c33
$25+22 shipping .

Last edited by cantalup; 12-02-2014 at 01:37 PM. Reason: gold-platinum
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post #2350 of 2365 Old 12-02-2014, 02:56 PM
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Huh I should have gotten some of those lol
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post #2351 of 2365 Old 12-02-2014, 09:43 PM
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Well, I bit the bullet and picked up one of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/171528374048...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT It's more than I wanted to spend, but it should be overkill for the application and I can upgrade the CPU's to Xeon X5670 if I need more horsepower in the future.
The goal is to make it as quiet as possible. I'll be replacing all the fans and the PSU. Does anybody have recommendations for fans and a PSU? I plan on replacing fan wall with 140mm fans. I was thinking of this PSU, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151087 Good? Better options out there?

Need to decide on an OS, software raid, hdd's (greens vs reds?), etcetera... Choices, choice, choices All ready over my head. I'll have lots of questions in the future! Thanks for any advice.
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post #2352 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by thomps33 View Post
Well, I bit the bullet and picked up one of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/171528374048...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT It's more than I wanted to spend, but it should be overkill for the application and I can upgrade the CPU's to Xeon X5670 if I need more horsepower in the future.
The goal is to make it as quiet as possible. I'll be replacing all the fans and the PSU. Does anybody have recommendations for fans and a PSU? I plan on replacing fan wall with 140mm fans. I was thinking of this PSU, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817151087 Good? Better options out there?

Need to decide on an OS, software raid, hdd's (greens vs reds?), etcetera... Choices, choice, choices All ready over my head. I'll have lots of questions in the future! Thanks for any advice.
you bought 4U supermicro with sas1 expander :|.
sas1 expander mostly cause headache when so many sata drives are booting up all together.
I have sas1 expander that cause some sata drives are not recognized during booting up. I took off exapnder sas1, and use two perc H200 as end result. mucho problemo on sas1 expander.

if you want to buy: sas2 expander(working nicely with SAS and SATA drives), non expander.

check on this to know better:
https://forums.servethehome.com/inde...res-woes.3646/


as my memory serves me well, you would get only 1.5gb sata transfer rate on sas1 expander. sas drive would get 3gb transfer rate.



PSU that you linked is very good candidate.
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post #2353 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 02:53 AM
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Well, that's a bummer. I knew sas was backwards compatable with sata but I wasn't aware of the sas2. I just looked at the specs of the sas expander and it said it supported sata drives so I was a happy camper. It looks like they fixed the reliability of the sas expander using sata drives? Is 1.5 Gbs a limiting factor?

I looked at the sas2 expander and they are not cheap! I was hoping to use the sas expander backplane to reduce the amount of wires going in the case...now I may get a refund and look elsewhere.

By the way. Thanks for pointing that out! Just goes to show how much I have to learn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantalup View Post
you bought 4U supermicro with sas1 expander :|.
sas1 expander mostly cause headache when so many sata drives are booting up all together.
I have sas1 expander that cause some sata drives are not recognized during booting up. I took off exapnder sas1, and use two perc H200 as end result. mucho problemo on sas1 expander.

if you want to buy: sas2 expander(working nicely with SAS and SATA drives), non expander.

check on this to know better:
https://forums.servethehome.com/inde...res-woes.3646/


as my memory serves me well, you would get only 1.5gb sata transfer rate on sas1 expander. sas drive would get 3gb transfer rate.



PSU that you linked is very good candidate.
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post #2354 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by cantalup View Post
Not on SQ. some member on serverthehome and hardforum forums have that. pricey but worthed it you need "quite" PSU
you need just one for home user . P-SQ is less fan noise that P. SQ-> supermicro style of Super Quite ().

I have 920P and 1K21P, this is depend on the load. < 30% fan run low rpm (thanks for PWM fan).
the best home user for low rpm fan running is using 10%-15% maximal of watt. EX: maximal usage is ~150W for 920P, or ~180W for 1K2P. I am assuming that no temperature control aka AC involved in home user, which room/house temperature will has fluctuation down and up.

you will know whay supermicro put "P" aka PWM :P...

ditch out old PSU that high noise fan (non PWM) and non efficient power usage.

Pick 920P or 1K21P, I prefer 1K21P where the price difference is minimal on ebay( 2 weeks ago).
--------------
P is 80 gold
P-SQ is 80 platinum where more effiecent than P.
------------
you can not compare quiteness with desktop PSU, Such as: seasonic 750W X or other mid to high desktop PSU.
desktop PSU is more quite than server psu.

-------
1k21P -> www. ebay. com/itm/POWER-SUPPLY-SUPERMICRO-PWS-1K21P-1R-SWITCHING-1200W-SERVER-POWER-SUPPLY-1U-/171530599475?pt=US_Server_Power_Supplies&hash=item 27f0053c33
$25+22 shipping .
I had no clue about the PWS-1K21P-1R. After s/h they are just about the price of one PWS-920P-1R. Thanks for the info!

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Huh I should have gotten some of those lol
LOL Wait a few more days and someone will put us on to something even better LOL
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post #2355 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 09:31 AM
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^^
there is always better deal haha....

Supermicro parts are easy to find on ebay.
just go to supermicro site, search the parts model and number, dig-in technical detail, search on forums, and start hunting on ebay

1K21P, is very quite for me, as long as <=20% load. the same situation on 920P when loaded with 20% usage
But.. can not be compare with desktop PSU, such as 750W seasonic semi modular.

people are hunting 920P and forget 1K21P.

same as past years with IBM M1015. some seller with many card were selling cheap!!. I missed that opportunity

at last settled with $60 price range. If more than 60, means not good price for me!
bought M1015 each $60 including shipping for two, and perc H200 each $60 for two including shipping too.
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post #2356 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 09:46 AM
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Well, that's a bummer. I knew sas was backwards compatable with sata but I wasn't aware of the sas2. I just looked at the specs of the sas expander and it said it supported sata drives so I was a happy camper. It looks like they fixed the reliability of the sas expander using sata drives? Is 1.5 Gbs a limiting factor?

I looked at the sas2 expander and they are not cheap! I was hoping to use the sas expander backplane to reduce the amount of wires going in the case...now I may get a refund and look elsewhere.

By the way. Thanks for pointing that out! Just goes to show how much I have to learn!
the last option is replacing backplane with sas2 or non expander version
sas2 expander backplane is pricey on ebay as I checked lastweek $200-$300, those sellers throw a bait:P
no-expander could be less than sas2 expander.

Totaly true, expander will reduces hay-wiring that only need one or two mini-sas forward/straight cable.

if you are interested, pick 3U 16 bays supermicro with dual 1k21P PSU, you just need to replace internal fans with pwm since the original fans makes high pitch noise (on my ears).
that case is getting popular -> http://www.ebay.com/itm/3U-Supermicr...item20f1907c04

I bought it 2 weeks ago, and receieved yesterday. $300(bestprice)+$50 shipping.
I check on serve...home forum. the seller firmed on $315 since unloading on ebay is easy;due on sas2 expander.
backplane has 2 x sas2 expander. you can do single(cover all 16 bays) or dual (cover 8 bays for each sas2 expander, with total 16 bays).

Doing transplanting TS140 i3 model to the supermicro case to replace my old setup with braking hot-swap rack.

good luck
please remember, if not sas2 expander, just forget it.
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post #2357 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 10:29 AM
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, you just need to replace internal fans with pwm since the original fans makes high pitch noise (on my ears).
Have you consider plugging the fans directly to the mobo instead of the fan wall header? If you plug the fans into the mobo you should be able to use PWM to quite them down some?
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post #2358 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantalup View Post
you bought 4U supermicro with sas1 expander :|.
sas1 expander mostly cause headache when so many sata drives are booting up all together.
I have sas1 expander that cause some sata drives are not recognized during booting up. I took off exapnder sas1, and use two perc H200 as end result. mucho problemo on sas1 expander.

if you want to buy: sas2 expander(working nicely with SAS and SATA drives), non expander.

check on this to know better:
https://forums.servethehome.com/inde...res-woes.3646/


as my memory serves me well, you would get only 1.5gb sata transfer rate on sas1 expander. sas drive would get 3gb transfer rate.



PSU that you linked is very good candidate.
The thread you linked from servethehome concludes your issue was related to lsi raid firmware and has since been fixed. Also it would appear to be a non issue with a card using "it" firmware. As far as speed concerns, I also feel that is invalid. If you are using something like flexraid you are bottlenecked by the drives not the controller. Someone using zfs should probably get a sas2 backplane, but I think there are better alternatives for home use anyways.
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post #2359 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 03:21 PM
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The thread you linked from servethehome concludes your issue was related to lsi raid firmware and has since been fixed. Also it would appear to be a non issue with a card using "it" firmware. As far as speed concerns, I also feel that is invalid. If you are using something like flexraid you are bottlenecked by the drives not the controller. Someone using zfs should probably get a sas2 backplane, but I think there are better alternatives for home use anyways.
reread again, sas1 is the issue..
there was thread on hardforum too years back.

I still have one sas1 expander lsi (chenbro) that acts identical with the symptom in the link that I gave,
I tested (M1015 and perc H200) IT and IR, nada result,
including adaptec 3 series.

the problem no vendor want to update sas1 expander firmware, since already discontinued,

try yourself.....

sorry, I am a linux guy when talking server related :P,
if you happy with 1.5Gb speed, it is up to you.
but random missing drives during booting?

if you read sas2 expander chips tech doc, they put extra features that missing in sas1 expander chips

all I can say:
I already let you know from my experience, if you do not care, nothing to worry about
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post #2360 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by onyxbfly View Post
Have you consider plugging the fans directly to the mobo instead of the fan wall header? If you plug the fans into the mobo you should be able to use PWM to quite them down some?
doable.
server fans is a beast . still generate pitch noise when running low.
this makes sense, since server fans pull a lot of pressure even in low rpm

there are 3 front fans, and 2 front fans, the easy way is using 2 pwm controllers for front and back.

this is the third time buying server cases.
1 4U AIC
1 4U supermicro
1 3U supermicro with sas2 expander.

the first two were heavily modded with desktop fans and good desktop psu.
I do not have time much, will use pwm controller or replace with good desktop fans.

for the record:
if you planning buying "non-server" 5x3.5 raid cage. please do not buy. mine is breaking and inside connector getting loose aka do not touch the server while running. Case is rosewill 4U with 3 of 5X3.5 raid cage, the server has been with am2 sempron with ddr2 ecc unbuffer.
this is the reason I bought the third real server case with hot-swap and transplating ts140 i3 motherboard to supermicro.

Last edited by cantalup; 12-03-2014 at 03:33 PM.
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post #2361 of 2365 Old 12-03-2014, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cantalup View Post
reread again, sas1 is the issue..
there was thread on hardforum too years back.

I still have one sas1 expander lsi (chenbro) that acts identical with the symptom in the link that I gave,
I tested (M1015 and perc H200) IT and IR, nada result,
including adaptec 3 series.

the problem no vendor want to update sas1 expander firmware, since already discontinued,

try yourself.....

sorry, I am a linux guy when talking server related :P,
if you happy with 1.5Gb speed, it is up to you.
but random missing drives during booting?

if you read sas2 expander chips tech doc, they put extra features that missing in sas1 expander chips

all I can say:
I already let you know from my experience, if you do not care, nothing to worry about
Not to be a jerk, but you might want to reread that thread you linked. A member there clearly states that lsi has updated firmware on the 9260, and 9240 to fix the issues with the sas1 expanders. Clearly it will be slower than sas2, but as I mentioned that won't matter to flexraid users. No one wants to deal with unforseen problems so it's good that you posted your experience. But scaring people away from cheap hardware that might be a better fit for their needs seems silly. Right now supermicro cases with sas2 backplanes are rare on ebay. Sas1 is everywhere and cheap. If there were more sas2 options available on the second hand market it would be a no brainer.
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post #2362 of 2365 Old 12-04-2014, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by berstuck View Post
Not to be a jerk, but you might want to reread that thread you linked. A member there clearly states that lsi has updated firmware on the 9260, and 9240 to fix the issues with the sas1 expanders. Clearly it will be slower than sas2, but as I mentioned that won't matter to flexraid users. No one wants to deal with unforseen problems so it's good that you posted your experience. But scaring people away from cheap hardware that might be a better fit for their needs seems silly. Right now supermicro cases with sas2 backplanes are rare on ebay. Sas1 is everywhere and cheap. If there were more sas2 options available on the second hand market it would be a no brainer.
not to be a jerk too, am I

I try to help everyone to avoid unneeded steps, since has been doing almost 3 build server.
and
NOT scaring everyone, as I said nothing to worry about in my post!

please reread my posting that based on my experience.

I DO have sas1 expander sitting on my desk, two M1015, and two H200 that based on lsi chipset
H200 flashed with HBA 6G dellizer,
M1015 flashed with newest LSI firmware as today.

and rebuilding a server to replace my old server

did you follow my posting about 3U 16 bay sas2 expander? that is pretty cheap...
No excuse to blame on the cost..

well, check on hardforum too,
I posted serve... link since on my bookmark.

my suggestion as on my previous post, avoid sas1 expander, better buy non expander, which mostly the same price as sas1 expander version.

this is my last reply to this matter, do not want trashing this thread.
I am just letting everyone decide for a long run to pick his/her own decision.
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post #2363 of 2365 Old 12-08-2014, 10:01 PM
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In my Supermicro 24-bay chassis that I gotten from TAMS sometime ago, I am considering replacing the AMD based H8HME-2 motherboard and the PCI-X SATA MV8 controller cards. I could get another server board or a consumer level board to replace the existing one, but would have to support PXE network booting as I have WDS setup now on the Server 2012 R2 VM. Thing is, since the backplane of the case has the individual SATA connections, what's a good controller card that's possible SAS with the SATA connectors for all 24 bays? I'm also wondering if any mods would be needed to fit an micro-ATX or ATX board in that chassis with the original back window? I could search on the pasts posts on this thread but have no time to search tonight.

This server will just be a file server loaded with an OS, with Drivepool and Flexraid since I still have both those licenses unused right now. No transcoding will be done on this box since my ESXi Win7 VM till take care of that running the Xeon 1230 V2.

As for the chassis, it still has the original PSU's (one replaced with the 920-R sometime ago) so I don't really plan to replace them either. The original fans I have a fan controller to turn those down to a manageable noise level.

What's a good controller card to replace the MV8's, and drivers that supports Windows OS?

Last edited by AVTechMan; 12-08-2014 at 10:08 PM.
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post #2364 of 2365 Old 12-09-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post
In my Supermicro 24-bay chassis that I gotten from TAMS sometime ago, I am considering replacing the AMD based H8HME-2 motherboard and the PCI-X SATA MV8 controller cards. I could get another server board or a consumer level board to replace the existing one, but would have to support PXE network booting as I have WDS setup now on the Server 2012 R2 VM. Thing is, since the backplane of the case has the individual SATA connections, what's a good controller card that's possible SAS with the SATA connectors for all 24 bays? I'm also wondering if any mods would be needed to fit an micro-ATX or ATX board in that chassis with the original back window? I could search on the pasts posts on this thread but have no time to search tonight.

This server will just be a file server loaded with an OS, with Drivepool and Flexraid since I still have both those licenses unused right now. No transcoding will be done on this box since my ESXi Win7 VM till take care of that running the Xeon 1230 V2.

As for the chassis, it still has the original PSU's (one replaced with the 920-R sometime ago) so I don't really plan to replace them either. The original fans I have a fan controller to turn those down to a manageable noise level.

What's a good controller card to replace the MV8's, and drivers that supports Windows OS?
do you need to replace motherboard and sata/sas card? just try to understand.
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post #2365 of 2365 Old Today, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cantalup View Post
not to be a jerk too, am I

I try to help everyone to avoid unneeded steps, since has been doing almost 3 build server.
and
NOT scaring everyone, as I said nothing to worry about in my post!

please reread my posting that based on my experience.

I DO have sas1 expander sitting on my desk, two M1015, and two H200 that based on lsi chipset
H200 flashed with HBA 6G dellizer,
M1015 flashed with newest LSI firmware as today.

and rebuilding a server to replace my old server

did you follow my posting about 3U 16 bay sas2 expander? that is pretty cheap...
No excuse to blame on the cost..

well, check on hardforum too,
I posted serve... link since on my bookmark.

my suggestion as on my previous post, avoid sas1 expander, better buy non expander, which mostly the same price as sas1 expander version.

this is my last reply to this matter, do not want trashing this thread.
I am just letting everyone decide for a long run to pick his/her own decision.

Can you link to your 3U 16 bay sas2 expander post. I would like to check it out
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