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post #1 of 121 Old 06-12-2012, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm very interested in the DH61AG but I was looking for a board with SATA3 6Gb/s ports (it's useful for my purposes) and came across this:

Intel DQ77KB

I realize this is a business oriented motherboard but what do you guys think?
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post #2 of 121 Old 06-12-2012, 10:06 PM
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I have a HTPC based on the DH61AG, and also just ordered a DQ77KB a few days ago to build a multi-purpose NAS for Plex transcoding using a Lian Li PC-Q16 case. My goal is to fit 4 x 3.5" hard drive in the case. I think I have that sorted out, just waiting for the motherboard to arrive to see how it looks before ordering a CPU and memory. Thinking about an i7-3770T CPU, w/ 16 GB of 1.35V ram smile.gif

The DQ77KB does everything the DH61AG does and more, including 4 sata ports.
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post #3 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 12:15 AM
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I also have the DH61AG. One drawback is that it only has 4 USB ports in the back. DQ77KB seems to be the same. My case does have two more ports out the front but 6 ports is not enough for modern desktops. Here is what I have connected to my DH61AG:
KB
Mouse
Scanner
Backup HDD
Camera cradle
WiFi dongle
Bluetooth
iPhone cable

So I have to go for an external hub. While the board is neat but cables are unsightly.
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post #4 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 12:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! I don't think I'll have a problem with just 6 USB ports (including front ports on the case). I've only got the following USB devices:
  1. Logitech Unifying Receiver (K400 & M570)
  2. IR Receiver
  3. Sony PRS-350 Reader and Android devices (all using microUSB, usually only have one connected at a time)
  4. external HDD (not always connected)

More often than not, I really only have two USB ports in use. This is not meant to be a workstation. It's supposed to be an HTPC which just happens to handle some unusual duties on the side. Now the question is what processor should I use. I was originally going to cheap out with an ASUS P8H61-I + Celeron G530 + $50 case with PSU. However, the G530 now looks horribly out of place in my parts list (already at $180 for just case, 160W PSU and heatsink/fan). Now it feels like the minimum I should go with is the i3-2100 and I'm actually leaning towards the i5-3450. The extra cores would certainly be helpful when compressing 5GB virtual hard disks.
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post #5 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 08:11 AM
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Since you are going with a slim setup, 65W is probably the limit. But that really gives you a wide selection including a few S version quadcores such as i5-2500S.
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post #6 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dksc318 View Post

Since you are going with a slim setup, 65W is probably the limit. But that really gives you a wide selection including a few S version quadcores such as i5-2500S.

Actually, I was planning on the i5-3450S 65W. Same price as the normal i5-3450 77W ($200) with just a slightly lower frequency (from 3.1 to 2.8GHz). Turbo is still at 3.5GHz, though. I don't think the difference in power consumption between the two models would be tangible but given they cost the same and the decrease in clock speed is fairly negligible, might as well go the safe route and opt for the S model.
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post #7 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 08:53 AM
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With the DQ77KB you need to be using HDMI for both video and audio. There is no DVI - only HDMI, eDP, and LVDS - and there is only 4 channel analog audio - no 7.1.

If you're sure you're going to be using a single HDMI, that's not an issue, but otherwise . . .

As an aside, what display can you actually use LVDS with?
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post #8 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

With the DQ77KB you need to be using HDMI for both video and audio. There is no DVI - only HDMI, eDP, and LVDS - and there is only 4 channel analog audio - no 7.1.

If you're sure you're going to be using a single HDMI, that's not an issue, but otherwise . . .

That's fine. I plan on doing audio via HDMI anyway. Lack of 7.1 channel or HD audio bitstreaming wouldn't have been a big deal either since this will be connected directly to the TV and will just use the TV's speakers.


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Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

As an aside, what display can you actually use LVDS with?

I have no idea. I would've been perfectly happy with a Thin Mini-ITX H67 or H77. Alas no such board exists (that I'm aware of) and I'm not sure if Intel's planning on releasing one. All I'm really after are the native SATA3 6Gb/s ports. This is just going to replace a Zacate build which I'm absolutely frustrated with (it's just too slow for the stuff I do even with an SSD). I used to have a Clarkdale with GT 430 but that got moved to the living room when the Zotac GF9300 motherboard in the living room HTPC died (again).
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post #9 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 09:37 AM
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What case are you going to be using that you want to use the thin ITX rather than standard ITX by, the way?

Keep us posted; this sounds like a build I might want to copy. I've been contemplating a 3450 ITX build too, but had been looking at the DH77DF (or else a 2100 or 2125 with a DH67CF) and had been thinking about a Antec ISK 300-150 (case, mobo, cpu, SDRAM and SSD as the only elements of the build). But if you've got a smaller build in mind, I'm interested.

BTW, the i5-3450 is one of those "if you have a Micro Center handy" items - it's only $149.99 (they seem to have stopped carrying the i5-2400 that they had for $139.99).
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post #10 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't have a Micro Center nearby (it's a 3-hour drive) so I'm not considering their prices.

So far, here's what I have planned:
Still somewhat undecided on CPU but I've been able to limit my choices now.

CPU:
Intel Core i5-3450S, $200
Intel Core i7-3770S, $310

Storage:
2x Corsair Performance Pro, Plextor M3 Pro, Plextor M3, Samsung 830 256GB (whichever one of them I see on sale preferably without rebates)

Hoping to nab an mSATA SSD (when prices go down) for use as OS drive eventually. Either that or replace the 2.5" SSDs with larger capacities. Whichever ends up being less expensive.
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post #11 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dksc318 View Post

I also have the DH61AG. One drawback is that it only has 4 USB ports in the back. DQ77KB seems to be the same. My case does have two more ports out the front but 6 ports is not enough for modern desktops. Here is what I have connected to my DH61AG:
...
So I have to go for an external hub. While the board is neat but cables are unsightly.
There's 5 internal headers. Just get a slot cover with USB ports and you can use those on the back of your case. Or modify the back of your case. No need for external hubs.
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post #12 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

With the DQ77KB you need to be using HDMI for both video and audio. There is no DVI - only HDMI, eDP, and LVDS - and there is only 4 channel analog audio - no 7.1.
If you're sure you're going to be using a single HDMI, that's not an issue, but otherwise . . .
As an aside, what display can you actually use LVDS with?

It also has DisplayPort. I like the board because it has the 2 extra SATA ports as opposed to the DH61AG, but it drops the CIR port. I'll probably end up just flashing the DH61AG BIOS to support the IVB processors. The DH61AG is almost perfect for an embedded system DVR/HTPC.
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post #13 of 121 Old 06-13-2012, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdru View Post

There's 5 internal headers. Just get a slot cover with USB ports and you can use those on the back of your case. Or modify the back of your case. No need for external hubs.
My DH61AG is in that no name M350 case. There is a special I/O plate someone made for the DN2800MT that can take a expansion slot back plate. It would be perfect to add USB ports:
http://www.mitxpc.com/proddetail.asp?prod=EKIMTM350

I wish they would make similar I/O plates for DH61AG and DQ77KB.
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post #14 of 121 Old 06-26-2012, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally bit the bullet and ordered the following:
The thing I had the hardest time choosing was the CPU. I kept vacillating between the i5-3450S and the i7-3770S. Price isn't a concern but heat certainly is. HyperThreading helps quite a bit with 7-zip (LZMA2) but on my Core i7-860, use of HT increases core temps by 20C (comparing temps when compressing with 4 threads vs 8 threads). While that's not a big concern when you've got a massive heatpipe cooler inside a largish case, I'm not sure if the case and HSF above would be able to provide adequate cooling for a CPU with HT. Since the PSU is also limited, load power consumption is also a concern.

Has anyone tested the i5-3450S and i7-3770S processors at load (e.g. x264, Prime, IBT)? What are temps and power consumption like? My only experience with HT is with Lynnfield and Clarkdale and there's definitely a significant increase in both heat and load power consumption with those two when HT is used. If there's not much difference on these newer chips, I might just go with the i7-3770S as it would cut down compression times by 15~30%.
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post #15 of 121 Old 06-26-2012, 01:24 PM
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will the 3570k cpu work with this mobo? the intel site does not list it as compatible.
http://processormatch.intel.com/CompDB/SearchResult.aspx?BoardName=DQ77KB
any idea why it requires the 's; version? is that because of the 65w limit? perhaps the power phases are not up to snuff?
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post #16 of 121 Old 06-26-2012, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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The motherboard has an onboard power supply and only needs a 19V power adapter. Chances are the i5-3570K will work but I'm playing it safe by going with the 65W TDP i5-3450S. Since this is targeted more towards business users, I doubt Intel would make this substandard.
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post #17 of 121 Old 06-26-2012, 01:46 PM
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Here's my little project. Basically the same hardware as ilovejedd, but I have a i7-3770T on order (i3-2120T is in in right now), and I opted for the low voltage 1.35v 16GB crucial kit. And of course am using a different case - Lian Li PC-Q16 https://picasaweb.google.com/104979206991404158659/HTPCNASLianLiPCQ16?authuser=0&feat=directlink

I also have a DH61AG system based on the Lian Li PC-Q05 as well (which is where my i3-2120T was borrowed from) https://picasaweb.google.com/104979206991404158659/Htpc

But my goal will probably be to just put my tuner into my new project making it a NAS/HTPC all in one so I only have one system for those functions that is on 24/7.
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post #18 of 121 Old 06-26-2012, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Curious, isn't the i7-3770T OEM only?
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post #19 of 121 Old 06-27-2012, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Curious, isn't the i7-3770T OEM only?

http://www.sabrepc.com/p-2910-intel-core-i7-3770t-ivy-bridge-four-core-25ghz-8mb-l3-cache-socket-1155-65w-desktop-processor-oemtray.aspx

$303
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post #20 of 121 Old 06-27-2012, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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How long does it take them to ship? My Zacate build is starting to give up the ghost and needs replacing soon.
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post #21 of 121 Old 06-27-2012, 07:35 PM
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Hi,

Don't try 1.35V DDR3, it is not supported by Ivy Bridge desktop processors like the 3770S (see vol. 1 Intel 3rd Generation Processors, page 11). Kind of irritating because I thought power saving was a major point with Ivy Bridge. I confirmed this with Intel Help Desk: no DDR3L 1.35V memory is supported by these processors.

Next note, about half of the Intel spec sheets list the memory as "240-pin DDR3..." but this is not the case. The DQ77KB uses DDR3 notebook 204-pin SODIMMs. The supported memory is CL-9 for 1333MHz, and CL-11 for 1600MHz. I wanted to squeeze either the voltage or the CL, but officially, according to Intel, you can't. If you are thinking of saving power by installing one SODIMM at 16GB instead of two SODIMMs at 8GB, no dice. Confirmed with Intel Help Desk: Max 8GB per socket.

Next note, while the DQ77KB has four USB 3.0 ports, they are all hard-wired to the back of the panel. No internal headers for USB 3.0, hence no front panel USB 3.0.

Next note, the power supply is an external 19V "laptop" brick, maximum amps for using the external connection is 8 amps or about 160W. Mini-box has what looks like the highest watts available in this category: PWR-ACDC-19V-8.4A-160W

Final note, the PCI-e 3.0 socket is only four lanes. I wanted to pipe this to an ExpressCard socket on the back panel, but ExpressCard is only one lane. So stick with Intel graphics onboard and abandon the PCI-e 3.0 or find a compatible card that will fit in the case you have to use.

That said, the DQ77KB is the best board I have seen in this form factor. I compared it to the similar DH77DF and did not find any reason to use the fatter DH77. DQ77KB even has a legacy serial port header--I can connect my 10-year old dive computer!

Hope this helps!
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post #22 of 121 Old 06-28-2012, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristleconer View Post

Hi,
Don't try 1.35V DDR3, it is not supported by Ivy Bridge desktop processors like the 3770S (see vol. 1 Intel 3rd Generation Processors, page 11). Kind of irritating because I thought power saving was a major point with Ivy Bridge. I confirmed this with Intel Help Desk: no DDR3L 1.35V memory is supported by these processors.

Actually, they will run, they just won't run at 1.35v. I learned the hard way. The first Corsair Vengeance low voltage DDR3L 1600 SDRAM I put in wouldn't run below 1.8v. Although I now have 1.35 v Mushkin installed, but it's running at 1.5 v.

I appreciate your posting this. I couldn't figure out why I couldn't get it to work at 1.35v. I have an i5-3570K in an Intel DH77KC motherboard, and the motherboard specs say:

"The board has four DIMM sockets and supports the following memory features:

1.5V DDR3 SDRAM DIMMs with gold plated contacts, with the option to raise the voltage to support higher performance DDR3 SDRAM DIMMs.
1.35V Low Voltage DDR3 DIMMs (JEDEC specification)"


It hadn't even occurred to me that the cpu might not handle DDR3L sdram. You would think Intel might at least put an asterisk on their own motherboard specs indicating "not supported with 3rd generation core processors". They make a point of telling you in the specs that " Third-generation Intel® Core processors are the only processor family that supports DDR3 1600 MHz DIMMs" but don't say a word about NOT supporting low voltage ram. So you need a 3rd gen chip to get 1600, but need a 2nd gen chip to use 1.35v. How assinine is that?

Guess I'll order some regular 1.5v 1600 SDRAM when I find it on sale and save the 1.35v for some future use.

Edit:

Just to clarify the data sheet at the place you cited specifies that the DDR3L will run, but only at 1.5 v. It says:

"System Memory Interface I/O Voltage of 1.5 V
DDR3 and DDR3L DIMMs/DRAMs running at 1.5 V
No support for DDR3L DIMMs/DRAMS running at 1.35 V
Support memory configurations that mix DDR3 DIMMs/DRAMs with DDR3L DIMMs/DRAMs running at 1.5V"
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post #23 of 121 Old 06-28-2012, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristleconer View Post

Hi,
Don't try 1.35V DDR3, it is not supported by Ivy Bridge desktop processors like the 3770S (see vol. 1 Intel 3rd Generation Processors, page 11). Kind of irritating because I thought power saving was a major point with Ivy Bridge. I confirmed this with Intel Help Desk: no DDR3L 1.35V memory is supported by these processors.
Next note, about half of the Intel spec sheets list the memory as "240-pin DDR3..." but this is not the case. The DQ77KB uses DDR3 notebook 204-pin SODIMMs. The supported memory is CL-9 for 1333MHz, and CL-11 for 1600MHz. I wanted to squeeze either the voltage or the CL, but officially, according to Intel, you can't. If you are thinking of saving power by installing one SODIMM at 16GB instead of two SODIMMs at 8GB, no dice. Confirmed with Intel Help Desk: Max 8GB per socket.

Seems kinda odd. I have my ram running at 1.35V on the DQ77KB w/ 2nd gen i3-2120T. Don't understand why they wouldn't support the same low voltage in their 3rd gen chips, especially the low power (lower VID) T variants like the i7-3370T. But I'll find out if that help desk person was right. I normally don't believe any help desk or support people - unless they have hands on knowledge, which most don't tongue.gif
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post #24 of 121 Old 06-28-2012, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

Seems kinda odd. I have my ram running at 1.35V on the DQ77KB w/ 2nd gen i3-2120T. Don't understand why they wouldn't support the same low voltage in their 3rd gen chips, especially the low power (lower VID) T variants like the i7-3370T. But I'll find out if that help desk person was right. I normally don't believe any help desk or support people - unless they have hands on knowledge, which most don't tongue.gif

The documentation says the same as the help desk person. My H77, and your Q77, motherboard both say they support 1.35v sdram, but, as I quoted above, the Intel documentation for the 3rd Generation chips (Ivy) says "DDR3 and DDR3L DIMMs/DRAMs running at 1.5 V; No support for DDR3L DIMMs/DRAMS running at 1.35 V"

So your motherboard will handle 1.35v, and your 2nd generation core processor will both work with 1.35v DDR3L at 1.35v, but my third generation (i5-3570K) core processor will NOT work with 1.35v DDR3L at 1.35v, but will work with the 1.35v DDR3L at 1.5v. What the help desk person told Bristleconer is the same as what the documentation states.

It certainly is odd, but that apparently is the right answer.
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post #25 of 121 Old 06-28-2012, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

The documentation says the same as the help desk person. My H77, and your Q77, motherboard both say they support 1.35v sdram, but, as I quoted above, the Intel documentation for the 3rd Generation chips (Ivy) says "DDR3 and DDR3L DIMMs/DRAMs running at 1.5 V; No support for DDR3L DIMMs/DRAMS running at 1.35 V"
So your motherboard will handle 1.35v, and your 2nd generation core processor will both work with 1.35v DDR3L at 1.35v, but my third generation (i5-3570K) core processor will NOT work with 1.35v DDR3L at 1.35v, but will work with the 1.35v DDR3L at 1.5v. What the help desk person told Bristleconer is the same as what the documentation states.
It certainly is odd, but that apparently is the right answer.

I guess I stand corrected. Didn't realize you had tried - I guess that's what I get for scanning through the thread. I'm still going to try. Maybe the 3rd gen T variants are special smile.gif... or maybe I should just cancel my order, buy another i3-2120T and save $200:confused:

edit: I just came across this http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/platform-memory/platform-memory.html Haven't read it yet, but just saw the top update and figured I'd link to it. Back to reading smile.gif

According to that page they tested SODIMMS at 1.35v on Intel 7 series chipset w/ 3rd gen cpus (ivy bridge) smile.gif http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/platform-memory/ddr3l-1333-1600-sodimm-chief-river-validation-results.html

edit2: According to the pics on newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148469, crucial's 16GB 1.35V kit uses Micron D9NZZ ram modules. http://www.micron.com/parts/dram/ddr3-sdram/mt41k512m8ra-15e Those weren't listed in Intel's document linked above, but the 256M and 128M modules were listed on some of the sets they tested. So there's some hope they'll work, and just intel didn't have a this kit handy to test.
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post #26 of 121 Old 06-29-2012, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

I guess I stand corrected. Didn't realize you had tried - I guess that's what I get for scanning through the thread. I'm still going to try. Maybe the 3rd gen T variants are special smile.gif... or maybe I should just cancel my order, buy another i3-2120T and save $200:confused:
edit: I just came across this http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/platform-memory/platform-memory.html Haven't read it yet, but just saw the top update and figured I'd link to it. Back to reading smile.gif
According to that page they tested SODIMMS at 1.35v on Intel 7 series chipset w/ 3rd gen cpus (ivy bridge) smile.gif http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/platform-memory/ddr3l-1333-1600-sodimm-chief-river-validation-results.html
edit2: According to the pics on newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148469, crucial's 16GB 1.35V kit uses Micron D9NZZ ram modules. http://www.micron.com/parts/dram/ddr3-sdram/mt41k512m8ra-15e Those weren't listed in Intel's document linked above, but the 256M and 128M modules were listed on some of the sets they tested. So there's some hope they'll work, and just intel didn't have a this kit handy to test.

As you indicate, they tested "SODIMMS at 1.35v on Intel 7 series chipset w/ 3rd gen cpus (ivy bridge)". Since they were SODIMMS, it's evident that they were testing this with an i7 MOBILE processor.

If you check the 3RD Generation Core Processor Data Sheets you'll notice that the MOBILE processors WILL work with 1.35v SODIMMS at 1.35v, but the DESKTOP processors will NOT work with 1.35v DIMMS at 1.35v (but will work with those DDR3L modules at 1.5v).

By the way, with two different makes and sets of 1.35v sdram, I tried forcing the speed and voltage to their rated speed and voltage of 1.35v and 1600mhz in the bios and both times I ended up having to reset the bios because when I tried to boot I got no video with the ram voltage set to 1.35v.
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post #27 of 121 Old 06-29-2012, 10:02 AM
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I dunno if it's fair to make that assumption, although it's probably true since <5% of desktop systems use SODIMMS. But the DQ77KB does.

Things to note:
  • You tried it on a 3rd gen K cpu - Low power isn't their intention, and they often don't have some features that the non-K cpu's have.
  • Even the 2nd gen i3-2120T spec page doesn't list DDR3L. It's working on my DQ77KB running DDR3L at 1.35V.
  • That validation list for DDR3L SODIMMs doesn't specifically say desktop or mobile platform.

I think it's fair to say datasheets/spec pages aren't always complete. And what's been tried in this thread hasn't exactly been apples to apples comparison. I'm not saying it's going to work, just saying there is a possibility. In any event, I guess I'll be trying it if they ever ship my i7-3770T.
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post #28 of 121 Old 06-29-2012, 10:37 AM
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You can try whatever you want. Just trying to save you some headaches. But this isn't a matter of not addressing it or being "incomplete.' To the contrary, it's very complete, and Vol 1 of the datasheet for the entire 3rd generation core processor desktop line says very explicitly "No support for DDR3L DIMMs/DRAMS running at 1.35 V." See Section 1.2.1.

So I wish you luck.
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post #29 of 121 Old 06-29-2012, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverge View Post

I dunno if it's fair to make that assumption, although it's probably true since <5% of desktop systems use SODIMMS. But the DQ77KB does.
Things to note:
  • That validation list for DDR3L SODIMMs doesn't specifically say desktop or mobile platform.

You don't need to make an assumption. The validation specifically mentions that it's for mobile.
Quote:
Listed below are the results from a small sample of DDR3L 1333 and DDR3L 1600 SoDIMM modules tested on Intel reference mobile platforms based on Intel® 7 series chipset using 3rd Gen Intel® Core™ i7 processors (codename Ivy Bridge). DDR3L 1333 SoDIMMs tested at 2DIMMs/channel, 2 channels loading configuration. DDR3L 1600 SoDIMMs tested at 1DIMM/channel, 2 channels loading configuration.
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post #30 of 121 Old 06-29-2012, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

You don't need to make an assumption. The validation specifically mentions that it's for mobile.

redface.gif I stand corrected. Oh well. Guess I'll be running my ram at 1.5V then.
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