? 3D setup - AVS Forum
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Home Theater Computers > ? 3D setup
bzb416's Avatar bzb416 03:54 PM 06-18-2012
Hi there,

My setup:

HTPC with AMD 6670 graphic card (dual-link DVI, displayport 1.2, HDMI 1.4a)
Epson 3D projector
Pioneer AVR 7.1 with TrueHD (not 3D compatible)

I am planning to use my AVR to decode the bitstream audio and have a direct video output from the HTPC to the projector to watch 3D movie, but wondering if the displayport 1.2 on my graphic card is cable of carrying bitstream audio or 3D signal or the dual-link DVI is capable of carry 3D signal to the projector. Which ever connection route is ok as long as I get bitstream sound to the receiver and 3D video to the projector. I don't want to waste a great AVR just because it does not have 3D feature. All suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Thanks

ricabullah's Avatar ricabullah 04:52 PM 06-18-2012
You just need to buy a second cheap card like 5450 for audio. ,

You have to use multiple screens; one for video, one for audio.
Nimo's Avatar Nimo 04:56 PM 06-18-2012
Just run the display port to HDMI cable to your AVR for sound and HDMI to projector.
bzb416's Avatar bzb416 06:15 PM 06-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

Just run the display port to HDMI cable to your AVR for sound and HDMI to projector.


I have been doing some online search to confirm that displayport can bitstream TrueHD to AVR, but found none frown.gif
Nimo's Avatar Nimo 07:42 PM 06-18-2012
I assure you it works because I use two cables from my video card one to TV and one to my SC-07, extend the desktop set both refresh rates.wink.gif
renethx's Avatar renethx 10:21 PM 06-18-2012

You will need an *active* DP-HDMI adapter in case DP carries HD audio bitstreaming (I don't know if carries it or not). As your card has a DVI port, you can use AMD's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter to send audio over DVI port.

 

- HDMI -> projector

- DVI -> AVR

 

or vice versa (doesn't matter).

 

Update

 

The information above is wrong. A passive DP-HDMI adapter is enough for video + HD audio bistream. Or you can use AMD's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter to the same effect. In other words,

 

- HDMI port

- DP port with a passive DP-HDMI adapter

- DVI port with AMD's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter

 

are completely equivalent.

 

However, once you connect two displays, then only the connector to which the *main* display is connected acts as HDMI and the other connector acts as DVI (no 3D, no audio, no color space selection [RGB only]). This means that you can't send 3D video over one of the connector and HD audio over another. A workaround is:

 

a) If your CPU is Intel (Clarkdale, Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge) or AMD APU (Llano or Trinity), then activate its GPU and use it to send audio.

b) If your CPU does not have integrated GPU, then add another cheap GPU such as HD 5450 (~$20). The second graphics card works even with a PCI Express x1 slot! (just cut the closed end to make it an open end.)


Nimo's Avatar Nimo 12:01 AM 06-19-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzb416 View Post

I have been doing some online search to confirm that displayport can bitstream TrueHD to AVR, but found none frown.gif

I bought this cable back in Feb for (9.00) for my 6850 and have no problem getting full lossless True HD, dts HD MA etc... I hope this answers your question good luck!smile.gif
300
renethx's Avatar renethx 01:28 AM 06-19-2012

OK, I confused "three display support" with this case. For two displays (actual display and AVR), a *passive* DP-HDMI adapter should work and support HD audio bitstrreaming as Nimo says. An active DP-HDMI adapter is required for three displays. An alternative is use AMD's DVI-HDMI adapter.


bzb416's Avatar bzb416 09:14 AM 06-19-2012
Thanks you very much for all your helps.

I am planning to get all the accessories this week (projector screen, cable, ceiling mount etc...) and try it out. I did read up on DP-HDMI for sound and found the cable on Amazon.ca (http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B002CSRF9M/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A2UB5780NRC5IR) , but couldn't find anything to confirm that it capable of passthrough full lossless True HD and dts HD MA to AVR, thanks to Nimo for your confirmation.

Its good know another option about AMD's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter to send audio over DVI port. Thanks to renethx

K
Nimo's Avatar Nimo 03:49 PM 06-20-2012
Another thing you can do is also use the DP to HDMI as video only and still be able to watch stereo 3D. I have my set up using HDMI to audio and DP to TV. Either way it doesn't matter but ATi uses the DP as display 1 so that's another reason why I have it set up this way.
jstabb's Avatar jstabb 04:58 PM 06-20-2012
Just an FYI to anyone reading this thread that your results may vary. It might be model dependent, or driver dependent, who knows maybe even display device dependent. But anyway, here was my experience trying to get this to work.

With my Gigabyte HD7770 I was not able to get HDMI audio and frame packed 3D working on separate connections (attempted on all available driver versions that support the 7000 series up to 12.5 beta). I could split audio and video fine, but as soon as frame packed 3D is thrown into the mix, no go. My experience was that regardless of which connections were used (I tried all possible combinations DP + HDMI, DP + DVI, HDMI + DVI and also reversed audio/video for each combo) the card always wanted to classify one of the connections as an HDMI connection and one of the connections as a DVI connection (which had nothing to do with which connector was used, the driver would happily call the AVR hooked up to the DVI connector an HDMI connection and my projector hooked up to the HDMI connector a DVI connection). The limitation of only one of the connections being classified as HDMI is what breaks audio and 3D. Obviously the AVR's connection must be classified as HDMI in order to leverage HDMI audio. Unfortunately the display's connection also has to be classified as HDMI in order for frame packed 3D to work (as it is part of the HDMI spec). The driver would not allow switching to a frame packed resolution on a DVI classified connection. This was tested through TMT, PowerDVD, and PowerDVD's BD advisor.

FYI: Projector was a Sony VPL-HW30ES and the AVR was a Denon AVR-3808CI.

If you purchase an AMD card with this usage in mind, please buy it from a place with a good return policy.
Nimo's Avatar Nimo 05:51 PM 06-20-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstabb View Post

Just an FYI to anyone reading this thread that your results may vary. It might be model dependent, or driver dependent, who knows maybe even display device dependent. But anyway, here was my experience trying to get this to work.
With my Gigabyte HD7770 I was not able to get HDMI audio and frame packed 3D working on separate connections (attempted on all available driver versions that support the 7000 series up to 12.5 beta). I could split audio and video fine, but as soon as frame packed 3D is thrown into the mix, no go. My experience was that regardless of which connections were used (I tried all possible combinations DP + HDMI, DP + DVI, HDMI + DVI and also reversed audio/video for each combo) the card always wanted to classify one of the connections as an HDMI connection and one of the connections as a DVI connection (which had nothing to do with which connector was used, the driver would happily call the AVR hooked up to the DVI connector an HDMI connection and my projector hooked up to the HDMI connector a DVI connection). The limitation of only one of the connections being classified as HDMI is what breaks audio and 3D. Obviously the AVR's connection must be classified as HDMI in order to leverage HDMI audio. Unfortunately the display's connection also has to be classified as HDMI in order for frame packed 3D to work (as it is part of the HDMI spec). The driver would not allow switching to a frame packed resolution on a DVI classified connection. This was tested through TMT, PowerDVD, and PowerDVD's BD advisor.
FYI: Projector was a Sony VPL-HW30ES and the AVR was a Denon AVR-3808CI.
If you purchase an AMD card with this usage in mind, please buy it from a place with a good return policy.

ATi broke 3D on my rig with the late 11 & 12 series drivers. 11.4,11.5's 11.5b hotfix 11.6 worked for me so you might want to give that a go I settled on 11.5's. It's usually the drivers...
jstabb's Avatar jstabb 07:34 PM 06-20-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

ATi broke 3D on my rig with the late 11 & 12 series drivers. 11.4,11.5's 11.5b hotfix 11.6 worked for me so you might want to give that a go I settled on 11.5's. It's usually the drivers...
Thanks, that's very useful information. Unfortunately 7xxx series owners can only go back to 12.2 IIRC, so we're kind of stuck. But it sounds like earlier generation owners have an option there with the older drivers.
Nimo's Avatar Nimo 09:12 PM 06-20-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstabb View Post

Thanks, that's very useful information. Unfortunately 7xxx series owners can only go back to 12.2 IIRC, so we're kind of stuck. But it sounds like earlier generation owners have an option there with the older drivers.

Maybe try these ones they seemed to have fixed a lot of bugs. http://downloads.guru3d.com/AMD-Catalyst-12.x-(8.980.0-June-4)-Unofficial-BETA-download-2923.html

It's basically for gamer's but you never know with ATi. You can also use older drivers for any card certain forums hack the CAT files, same with nVidia...
renethx's Avatar renethx 01:00 PM 06-22-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstabb View Post

Just an FYI to anyone reading this thread that your results may vary. It might be model dependent, or driver dependent, who knows maybe even display device dependent. But anyway, here was my experience trying to get this to work.

With my Gigabyte HD7770 I was not able to get HDMI audio and frame packed 3D working on separate connections (attempted on all available driver versions that support the 7000 series up to 12.5 beta). I could split audio and video fine, but as soon as frame packed 3D is thrown into the mix, no go. My experience was that regardless of which connections were used (I tried all possible combinations DP + HDMI, DP + DVI, HDMI + DVI and also reversed audio/video for each combo) the card always wanted to classify one of the connections as an HDMI connection and one of the connections as a DVI connection (which had nothing to do with which connector was used, the driver would happily call the AVR hooked up to the DVI connector an HDMI connection and my projector hooked up to the HDMI connector a DVI connection). The limitation of only one of the connections being classified as HDMI is what breaks audio and 3D. Obviously the AVR's connection must be classified as HDMI in order to leverage HDMI audio. Unfortunately the display's connection also has to be classified as HDMI in order for frame packed 3D to work (as it is part of the HDMI spec). The driver would not allow switching to a frame packed resolution on a DVI classified connection. This was tested through TMT, PowerDVD, and PowerDVD's BD advisor.

FYI: Projector was a Sony VPL-HW30ES and the AVR was a Denon AVR-3808CI.

If you purchase an AMD card with this usage in mind, please buy it from a place with a good return policy.

 

This is correct. See my post in FAQ 3D thread. A workaround is:

 

a) If your CPU is Intel or AMD APU, then activate its GPU and use it to send audio.

b) If your CPU does not have integrated GPU, then add another cheap GPU such as HD 5450 (~$20) for audio. The second graphics card works even with a PCI Express x1 slot! (Just cut the closed end to make it an open end.)


renethx's Avatar renethx 07:20 AM 06-23-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

Another thing you can do is also use the DP to HDMI as video only and still be able to watch stereo 3D. I have my set up using HDMI to audio and DP to TV. Either way it doesn't matter but ATi uses the DP as display 1 so that's another reason why I have it set up this way.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

ATi broke 3D on my rig with the late 11 & 12 series drivers. 11.4,11.5's 11.5b hotfix 11.6 worked for me so you might want to give that a go I settled on 11.5's. It's usually the drivers...

 

I tried 11.5 hotfix b, 11.6 hotfix b, 11.7 with PowerColor HD 5750 and Sapphire HD 6670 (DP to 3D and HDMI to AVR, and all the other possible combinations). None of them supported HDMI + HDMI. Are you sure DP is sending *Frame Packing* to your display while HDMI is sending audio to AVR? DP as DVI can still send the other 3D formats (checkerboard, SBS, TAB, etc.).

I am more and more convinced that AMD HD 4xxx/5xxx/6xxx (and 7xxx as of now) do not support HDMI + HDMI. Perhaps this is because HD audio controller in AMD GPU does not support dual audio stream.


renethx's Avatar renethx 08:01 AM 06-23-2012

Here is a summary.

 

In AMD HD 5xxx/6xxx/7xxx GPU, any of:

 

- HDMI connector

- DP connector with a passive DP-HDMI adapter

- DVI connector with AMD's proprietary DVI-HDMI adapter

 

works as a HDMI 1.4a connector that supports Frame Packing 3D video, HD audio and YCbCr color space as well as RGB.

 

However if two displays are connected to the GPU at the same time, then only one connector works as HDMI and the other connector always works as DVI (no Frame Packing 3D video, no audio, only RGB color space). Precisely speaking, if you use HDMI and DP/DVI, then HDMI always works as HDMI and DP/DVI works as DVI; If you use DP and DVI, then DP always works as HDMI and DVI as DVI. In other words, HDMI-likeness decreases in this order:

 

HDMI > DP > DVI

 

That means, unlike NVIDIA and Intel, you can't send Frame Pakcing 3D video over one of the connector and HD audio over another (you can still send other 3D formats such as checkerboard, SBS, TAB, interleaved over DVI, however). Apparently this is because of a limitation of the HD audio controller of AMD GPU, i.e. non-support for dual audio stream.

 

A workaround is use another GPU to send HD audio:

 

a) If it is a discrete AMD GPU and your CPU is Intel Clarkdale/SNB/IVY or AMD APU, then activate its GPU and use it to send audio.

b) If it is a discrete AMD GPU and your CPU does not have integrated GPU, then add another cheap GPU such as HD 5450 (~$20) for audio. The second graphics card works even with a PCI Express x1 slot! (Just cut the closed end to make it an open end.)

c) If it is iGPU of AMD APU, then add a cheap discrete GPU such as HD 5450 (~$20) for audio.

 

Also read this post.

 

  HD 5450-5670 HD 5750- HD 6310 (E-350) HD 6xxx (E-450, A Series, dGPU), HD 7xxx GT 210-240 GTS/X 250- GT(X) 430-460/520-560/all 6xx GTX 465/570- Intel HD Graphics (Celeron/Pentium SNB) Intel HD Graphics 2k/2.5k/3k/4k (Core i3/i5/i7 SNB/IVB)
MVC hardware decode No Yes No Yes Yes No Yes Yes Yes Yes
HDMI 1.4a 3D (Frame packing) Yes Yes - Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes No Yes
Frame packing to 3D display + HD audio to HDMI 1.3 AVR No No - No Yes (LPCM only) No Yes Yes (LPCM only) - Yes
Frame packing + HD audio to HDMI 1.4a AVR / 3D display Yes Yes - Yes Yes (LPCM only) No Yes Yes (LPCM only) - Yes

Nimo's Avatar Nimo 10:53 AM 06-23-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post


I tried 11.5 hotfix b, 11.6 hotfix b, 11.7 with PowerColor HD 5750 and Sapphire HD 6670 (DP to 3D and HDMI to AVR, and all the other possible combinations). None of them supported HDMI + HDMI. Are you sure DP is sending *Frame Packing* to your display while HDMI is sending audio to AVR? DP as DVI can still send the other 3D formats (checkerboard, SBS, TAB, etc.).


I am more and more convinced that AMD HD 4xxx/5xxx/6xxx (and 7xxx as of now) do not support HDMI + HDMI. Perhaps this is because HD audio controller in AMD GPU does not support dual audio stream.

My combination set up is HD6850 DP to HDMI to TV HDMI to HDMI to AVR. extended desktop W7 see's AVR as display #2. When booting make sure ATi see's the audio formats for lossless. If I boot the PC with no AVR in the chain then ATi will load it's basic 48k driver although stereo 3D still works there is no support for lossless. That's where nVidia kicks ATi's ass because nVidia gives you two drivers for this type of set up with ATi it's one or the other.

renethx's Avatar renethx 11:39 AM 06-23-2012

DP to TV + HDMI to AVR with HD audio bitstreaming is no problem. wink.gif My point is different. Perhaps your DP works only as *DVI*. Check "Pixel Format" in CCC; if you don't see your TV name there, almost DP = *DVI*, that can't transmit the frame packing 3D format. It can still transmit other 3D formats such as checkerboard and SBS.

 

(DVI supports only RGB, while HDMI supports YCbCr too; if "My Digital Flat Panel" is connected via *DVI* [that could be a DP connector physically], you won't see the entry name "Pixel Format" as only full-range RGB is supported, while if it is connected via *HDMI* [that could be a DP connector physically], you will see it and be able to select color spaces.)

 

 

If your CPU is either SNB/IVB or Llano, this AMD GPU's limitation is actually no problem: use the integrated GPU for audio. smile.gif


Nimo's Avatar Nimo 05:51 PM 06-23-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

DP to TV + HDMI to AVR with HD audio bitstreaming is no problem. wink.gif My point is different. Perhaps your DP works only as *DVI*. Check "Pixel Format" in CCC; if you don't see your TV name there, almost DP = *DVI*, that can't transmit the frame packing 3D format. It can still transmit other 3D formats such as checkerboard and SBS.

(DVI supports only RGB, while HDMI supports YCbCr too; if "My Digital Flat Panel" is connected via *DVI* [that could be a DP connector physically], you won't see the entry name "Pixel Format" as only full-range RGB is supported, while if it is connected via *HDMI* [that could be a DP connector physically], you will see it and be able to select color spaces.)


If your CPU is either SNB/IVB or Llano, this AMD GPU's limitation is actually no problem: use the integrated GPU for audio. smile.gif

DP-HDMI My digital flat panel reports TV name with pixel format listed under SC-07 YCbCr. If I were getting SBS, checkerboard I would have to manually adjust the TV. This is not the case when I launch either PDVD or TMT it see's it as stereoscopic 1.4. SC-07 uses Faroudja DCDi 1080p built in video scaler, 6850 see's it as such.
renethx's Avatar renethx 12:23 AM 06-24-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

DP-HDMI My digital flat panel reports TV name with pixel format listed under SC-07 YCbCr.


What's that? confused.gif You will not see your TV model number *under* SC-07 even if your TV connected to DP supports YCbCr. Here's how it works: you click the name of "SC07", see the list of selectable displays (the picture below; TX-SA606X is my AVR), select the other display (your TV) and only then you will see the model number of your TV and a drop down list of color pixel formats supported by your TV. The screenshot was taken with 11.4 Catalyst suite (with dual GPU; with a single GPU, only one display supports multiple color pixel formats and I even won't see the list of displays).

 

What's your TV model? Do you actually see its model number in the "Pixel Format" pane? If not (I bet not), your DP is not sending Frame Packing 3D.

 

BTW does "Faroudja DCDi 1080p built in video scaler" have anything to do with the current discussion? You are using SC-07 only as an audio processor/amplifier.

 

Pixel Format.PNG


Nimo's Avatar Nimo 10:49 AM 06-24-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post


What's your TV model? Do you actually see its model number in the "Pixel Format" pane? If not (I bet not), your DP is not sending Frame Packing 3D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

BTW does "Faroudja DCDi 1080p built in video scaler" have anything to do with the current discussion? You are using SC-07 only as an audio processor/amplifier.

Your right lol I got lost in translation, and actually forgot about what we were talking about redface.gif! If it's not sending the frame packing why does the 1.4 3D work without me having to adjust SBS or checkerboard. I know for a fact that it's not doing SBS, or checkerbaord because my TV will not auto tune to that I have to manually set the TV for both signals.
renethx's Avatar renethx 11:22 AM 06-24-2012

So your DP acts as DVI, no audio, no YCbCr. But you claim it is sending HDMI 1.4a 3D video signal...that's not happening to anybody except for you (afaik, of course).

 

What's your TV model?


Nimo's Avatar Nimo 07:07 PM 06-25-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

So your DP acts as DVI, no audio, no YCbCr. But you claim it is sending HDMI 1.4a 3D video signal...that's not happening to anybody except for you (afaik, of course).

What's your TV model?

TV is a Panasonic 50" VT-25, that's why I shot that video to show you guys that stereo 3D is active and working.
renethx's Avatar renethx 11:33 PM 06-25-2012

It even does not support checkerboard. I have a VT30. Let me try it...


Nimo's Avatar Nimo 10:33 AM 06-26-2012
This is what it looks like on my set up using 11.5 cat drivers.



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69495220.th.jpg

]
renethx's Avatar renethx 02:03 PM 06-26-2012

The third picture is it. Apparently DP to PanasonicTV0 is unable to support YCbCr, but support HDMI 1.4a 3D ... ? BTW thanks for your time to take screenshots.


Nimo's Avatar Nimo 11:02 PM 06-26-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The third picture is it. Apparently DP to PanasonicTV0 is unable to support YCbCr, but support HDMI 1.4a 3D ... ? BTW thanks for your time to take screenshots.

Ah..no biggie:) yes it sends 1.4a 3D. If I disable extended then it will display the TV's pixel format once the SC-07 is out of the chain.
bzb416's Avatar bzb416 10:06 PM 07-01-2012
Hi all,

Thanks for all the input.

To update:

I finally got everything hooked up.

PowerDVD 11
MKV 3D SBS (testing sample)
ASUS HD 6670

DVI to Samsung TV (monitor, non-3D)
HDMI to PJ
DP-Adaptor-HDMI-AVR

Scenario 1:
DVI-Sam TV
DP-AVR
Extended mode
able to play MKV with audio bitstream to AVR
CC indicated that AVR support both pixel format (4:4:4, 4:2:2 and other RGB)

Scenario 2:
DVI-disconected
HDMI 1.4a - PJ
DP-AVR
Extended mode
Able to play 3D, but unable to get audio to AVR. No "sound to external AVR to decode" option available in PDVD (setting-audio).
Only audio come out of PJ speaker
CC indicated that PJ support both pixel format (4:4:4, 4:2:2 and other RGB)


Screnario 3:
DP-PJ
HDMI 1.4a- AVR
Able to get audio to AVR to decode, but unable to play 3D SBS on PJ (non-3D MKVs are fine)

Any suggestion before I try the 2nd video card for audio? BTW, is HD 5450 fit PCI 2.2? my MB is P5B-VM (micro-ATX) http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_775/P5BVM/#specifications.

OT: I am not sure if this was just me, but I get headache when watching 3D. It got worse as I watch longer. I didn't have that when I watch IMAX 3D in theater
my sitting distance from a 92" diagnose screen is 9feet (within the viewing distance I guess). I hope this is temporary, otherwise is such a waste of all
the setup, because I can't stand the headache and I bought PJ just for 3D smile.gif.


Thanks so much for all the helps.
renethx's Avatar renethx 10:44 PM 07-01-2012

You just re-confirmed my post. smile.gif

 

HD 5450 does not fit a PCI slot. The slot has to be PCI Express. Cut the closed end of the PCI Express x4 slot and make it an open end. Then a graphics card should work. A smarter solution is use a GeForce card (e.g. GT 430) that supports dual audio stream.


Tags: Pioneer , Pioneer Vsx 91txh 7 1 Channel A V Receiver Featuring True Hd Dts Hd Master , Projectors
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