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post #31 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by JackDiesel14 View Post

If Microsoft wants to turn the Xbox 720 into a TV/DVR they'll need a substantially better container than wtv. Those files are just too large.

That doesn't have anything to do with the container, it's the codec, and unless they're going to be transcoding everything on the fly to H.264 or VC1, there's not a lot they can do about the size.
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I'd be interested to see what a company like J. River does if Microsoft pulls out of the cable card game.

Unfortunately they seem to have a very, very long way to go to be a viable DVR IMO.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #32 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 06:32 AM
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Does the METRO interface make an integrated WMC concept obsolete? It would seem to me that having the functionality of WMC split into discrete apps might make more sense and actually lead to more choices. Maybe that is why they only want to offer it in the PRO version?

If they would offer a TV Tuner/DVR app, I am sure it would sell, as would an extender app. I would nave no problem paying a reasonable price.
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post #33 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Unfortunately they seem to have a very, very long way to go to be a viable DVR IMO.
Maybe you could start a thread on our forum with your wishlist.

The only major one on mine is CableCard. We're working on it.

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post #34 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 11:33 AM
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That's when I'll buy it, I think.

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post #35 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 11:42 AM
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Anyone ever experiment with NextPVR? It seems like it might be a viable alternative for us OTA-only people. I've just never seen much discussion of it here on this board.
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post #36 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by jriver View Post

Maybe you could start a thread on our forum with your wishlist.
Here's Stanger's list:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=72978.msg494597#msg494597

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post #37 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 03:57 PM
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When you say you're working on CableCARD support do you have a time frame? I used up my trial period long ago and didn't want to buy JRiver because I wanted a DRM/DVR solution and the PVR in JRiver was just under development. Would I need to buy right away to test this new feature when available because of this?

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post #38 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 05:32 PM
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You could test on another PC or wait for the next version of MC.

I can't say when or if we'll have it. We''re working on it and we're getting good help from Ceton.

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post #39 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by snappjay View Post

I'm crossing my fingers for MythTV (or anyone really) to take the lead on DVR software w/cablecard support.

If you're willing to pay for it, then fine. Hoping it will be free, forget it.

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post #40 of 59 Old 06-26-2012, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by DanPackMan View Post

Does the METRO interface make an integrated WMC concept obsolete? It would seem to me that having the functionality of WMC split into discrete apps might make more sense and actually lead to more choices. Maybe that is why they only want to offer it in the PRO version?
If they would offer a TV Tuner/DVR app, I am sure it would sell, as would an extender app. I would nave no problem paying a reasonable price.

Haven't you seen the W8 Desktop? Look on the blog...

Metro if done right would give XBMC a run for its money in the Multimedia space.

I have W8 on a USB Stick, I am thinking of adding another 60GB Agility 3 in RAID 0 and then dual boot. However Paul Thurrot has been having problems with his W8 Preview machine. However he's multi-tasking so that might be the cause of his instability, I would use it investigate Windows Media Center in Windows 8, which I know is largely unchanged from Windows 7 but shouldn't cause any stability problems.

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post #41 of 59 Old 06-28-2012, 07:19 AM
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Yeah its too bad to see it going away as it is, but at least it will live on in Win 7 for many years to come.


As others have said, I'm hoping that we see third party apps in Win 8. Metro has potential in that area, so hopefully with MS stepping back, it gives an incentive to others to fill in the gaps.
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post #42 of 59 Old 06-28-2012, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

I bet this is pressure from the media companies. They are doing everything possible to make it so you can't cut the cord.
I hope some third party software company will write a good DVR program.

I am sorry, it makes no sense. If you are turly cutting the cord and going with OTA, then you don't need WMC, there are tons of free media center programs that can do OTA. You only need WMC if you are tied to a Cable TV provider, since WMC is the only one that can play DRM protected content.

There are third party companies that have DVR software, even the tuner manufacturers have their own, or rebranded versions of DVR software that works with OTA.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #43 of 59 Old 06-28-2012, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by tgrinch View Post

I'm sure all of the CC tuner MFGs have considered this way before they put the product into development. When WMC finally dies, I'd be willing to bet Ceton (or the likes) would have developed and approved their own CC approved DVR software. After all, I'm sure NONE of the CC tuner co's enjoy being tied to WMC and it's quirks. This is where TIVO has a big advantage.

I agree, companies like Ceton probably envisioned the day when MSFT decided to pull th eplug on the WMC, and may be developing their own, but I am not certain that they would develop the software to run on Windows. Perhaps a Linux based DVR software that is lighter and less resource dependant. Look at the Ceton Q, it is stand alone device that runs on Windows 7 embedded. They certainly have the capability to make stand alone devices, which will probably have higher market penetration than PC's that have been purpose built to be DVR's.

Gateway show cased one of those stand alone devices in 2010, but I think it may have died before it was born. You have to understand that most people in the US are not financially savy to see that paying $700 now, is SIGNIFICANTLY less than paying $20/month for 5-10 years. Or they wouldn't have been renting boxes form the cable TV provider.

If they were financially smart, we wouldn't have had the housing collapse, nor the high bancruptcy rates. But, alas, math (we are not talking algebra, or calculus, but simple arithmetic) is not the strongest among the American populus.

TiVO understands this, and offers their devices at or below cost, and makes money on the back end of the subscriptions, which is a repeat revenue, unlike the one time hardware purchase.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #44 of 59 Old 06-28-2012, 10:05 AM
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"But, alas, math (we are not talking algebra, or calculus, but simple arithmetic) is not the strongest among the American populus."

But I thought we were number one?

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post #45 of 59 Old 06-28-2012, 10:07 AM
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BTW, a DVR HTPC can be assembled for about $500 if you do it right. That's less than TiVo, especially when you look at the cost of EPG service with TiVo.

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post #46 of 59 Old 06-28-2012, 11:04 AM
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The WMC interface isn't really compatible with the direction Microsoft is heading with W8. And honestly I won't be sad to see the interface go. Without installing a 3rd party program there is no way to get rid of all the useless buttons. I only use Media Browser/XBMC and the TV ones anyways, maybe I'd use the music player if it was any good. If Microsoft has a separate program for TV and TV guide then that'd be a huge win. In win8 the Metro screen would basically be the WMC interface but a lot more customizable and would only show the stuff you use.
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post #47 of 59 Old 06-28-2012, 11:33 AM
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As long as it works with a remote (which they aren't certifying anymore). Otherwise I guess you get up and swipe your greasy hand across the face of your $2500 65" plasma?

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post #48 of 59 Old 06-28-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

As long as it works with a remote (which they aren't certifying anymore). Otherwise I guess you get up and swipe your greasy hand across the face of your $2500 65" plasma?

I'm impressed your plasma is touchscreen. Lol. I'm sure it will work with a remote and worse comes to worse you still have your arrow keys on your keyboard.
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post #49 of 59 Old 06-30-2012, 03:14 AM
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Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

I am sorry, it makes no sense. If you are turly cutting the cord and going with OTA, then you don't need WMC, there are tons of free media center programs that can do OTA. You only need WMC if you are tied to a Cable TV provider, since WMC is the only one that can play DRM protected content.
There are third party companies that have DVR software, even the tuner manufacturers have their own, or rebranded versions of DVR software that works with OTA.
Seriously, can you list a few? WMC is pretty solid for OTA HD use. Music, Movies, Videos, etc., are a plus. For WAF, I need support for 4 tuners, WMC (or other) remote, auto start on boot, guide data on par with WMC/zap2it (there is room for improvment!), support for multiple hard drives.
IMHO M$ WILL pull the plug on the guide at some future date. If they want out of this business, they WILL get out of this business.
Thanks.
BTW, I've tried a couple of Linux MC systems. They are not ready for prime time. Even the Linux folks agree with that for the most part. Same with Mac. For the most part. I'm NOT a Linux "guru" by any stretch of the imagination. Building on OS and App are not my idea of fun-- any more at least.
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post #50 of 59 Old 06-30-2012, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by terryj47 View Post

Seriously, can you list a few?

As I mentioned in a post above, nextPVR is one option for OTA and all of the other media types you mentioned. Seems to be rather well developed at this point with the included option of being able to build your own extenders or using networked media tanks such as Popcorn Hour. There's never been much discussion of nextPVR here at AVS, but the nextPVR site has their own forum that's pretty active.
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post #51 of 59 Old 06-30-2012, 11:57 AM
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I'll take a look at it for sure. Thanks.
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post #52 of 59 Old 06-30-2012, 02:23 PM
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Currently trying to migrate from WMC to NPVR but it has nothing to do with all the panic. It has more to do with the Whole Home DVR aspect. I'm just waiting on the new version that will be out in a couple of weeks to fix some bugs.
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post #53 of 59 Old 06-30-2012, 02:36 PM
 
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Drivers do not have to be certified to install. Who cares if they are certified as long as they come from the manufacturer?
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post #54 of 59 Old 06-30-2012, 03:00 PM
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I like you are not really worried about the driver certification even if it is another nail in the coffin of WMC. I get my video drivers from NVIDIA afterall. The biggest worry to me is the guide. If M$ were to shut it down that would be a problem. After all, they do control the horizontal and vertical (from the old tv show outer limits). Removing the auto start is another sign.
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post #55 of 59 Old 07-01-2012, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by jriver View Post

You could test on another PC or wait for the next version of MC.
I can't say when or if we'll have it. We''re working on it and we're getting good help from Ceton.
That would be awesome. I would definitely buy Jriver if it get's cablecard support. It would be nice to have another option if/when wmc kills it.
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post #56 of 59 Old 07-06-2012, 08:01 PM
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In my opinion, TV is at the beginning of a massive evolution from 'broadcast' to "get what you want, when you want" from providers like Netflix and Hulu. I believe that as IPTV content become more popular, and hence viewer numbers drop on broadcast, then advertisers will back-off advertising on broadcast, and broadcasters will struggle to afford to purchase premium content, driving more viewers away. Ultimately, I believe broadcast will be left with non-premium content, with only the likes of regional/local TV stations and public broadcast stations (parliament TV). I'm seeing significant industry discussion from content broadcasters (eg cable operators) about how to migrate to next generation TV.

PVR's are really an interim solution until the "get what you want, when you want" providers become the premium providers. I suspect Microsoft knows this.
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post #57 of 59 Old 07-06-2012, 09:59 PM
 
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csy, it has been that way for over 30 years now. The tried it with various markets, various vendors, and it never took off with pay to view, because the public made the choice that they did not want it. Even now, you have 1% of 1% utilizing computers or streaming devices to get the content where or when they want. Right now, you are talking a niche market.
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post #58 of 59 Old 07-07-2012, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by csy View Post

In my opinion, TV is at the beginning of a massive evolution from 'broadcast' to "get what you want, when you want" from providers like Netflix and Hulu. I believe that as IPTV content become more popular, and hence viewer numbers drop on broadcast, then advertisers will back-off advertising on broadcast, and broadcasters will struggle to afford to purchase premium content, driving more viewers away. Ultimately, I believe broadcast will be left with non-premium content, with only the likes of regional/local TV stations and public broadcast stations (parliament TV). I'm seeing significant industry discussion from content broadcasters (eg cable operators) about how to migrate to next generation TV.
PVR's are really an interim solution until the "get what you want, when you want" providers become the premium providers. I suspect Microsoft knows this.

Maybe in 10 or 20 years, but the infrastructure is far from ready yet. ISP's just to not have the bandwidth available for all this streaming, and most consumers are stuck with low speed Internet connections. Only a tiny percentage of homes have the capability, and even services like Hulu, Netflix etc are really in their infancy stages of development, and primarily limited to the US. As more people use PVR's to watch premium content offline (and skip ads!), then yes, advertising revenue is going to drop for the studios, but the whole point of IPTV is pay-per-view. Sure, you get to watch what you want, when you want, as long as your prepared to pay for it, per episode, per movie etc, and the quality is still pretty awful. Just as people have accepted MP3's as convenience over quality, studios believe they will do the same with video, and the streamed content is still LACED WITH ADS that you cannot skip at all! This business model is like a bee to honey for the studios, and they'll invest heavily in this, but until Internet speeds catch up, it's going to be a slow, painful, frustrating experience for the consumer.
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post #59 of 59 Old 07-07-2012, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post

csy, it has been that way for over 30 years now. The tried it with various markets, various vendors, and it never took off with pay to view, because the public made the choice that they did not want it.

Because people don't want to pay for each and every thing they watch, but that's not how Netflix or Hulu work, with those you pay (if you pay) for the service and then watch whatever you want, whenever you want.
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Even now, you have 1% of 1% utilizing computers or streaming devices to get the content where or when they want. Right now, you are talking a niche market.

Netflix has has more subscribers than any cable or satellite provider. If Netflix is a niche market, then Comcast, DirecTV and Dish are all niche markets.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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