Can someone recommend a version of catalyst that isn't completely broken? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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This is getting so old. So I was running Catalyst 12.3 (correction: 12.4), and the video card's sound card driver just completely stopped working. So I uninstalled, rebooted, ran drive sweeper, rebooted, installed 12.6, and rebooted. You know the drill. Now, on boot up, my overscan settings are not respected, so I have black bars on the top and bottom and sides of my TV. If I open catalyst, it says I have overscan compensation turned off, but obviously that's not true, because I'm seeing black bars. I then simply drag the slider away from it's position on the far right and then back to the same position, and everything is fixed. But if I have to reboot my HTPC, the black bars are back. This is not unlike another serious problem I have with catalyst.

This is utterly preposterous that AMD can't make a video card driver that doesn't seriously break my HTPC. This is a clean install of Windows 7. Only things installed are chipset drivers, lan drivers, Catalyst, and Jriver. Is there a particular Catalyst driver that is considered more stable than others or one that's recommended for HTPC use?
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post #2 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 07:46 AM
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12.4 is what i use on my secondary HTPC, tried 12.6 and got on of the most idiotic errors i`ve seen in my life. Basically it said that "The AMD VISION Engine Control Center is not supported by the driver version of your enabled graphics adapter. Please update your AMD graphics driver, or enable your AMD adapter using the Displays Manager" .Wtf? smile.gif))

So i went back to 12.4 which seems to work fine.

PS: Download link : http://downloads.guru3d.com/AMD-Catalyst-12.4-WHQL-32-bit-download-2904.html
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post #3 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

This is getting so old.

This is utterly preposterous that AMD can't make a video card driver that doesn't seriously break my HTPC.

Agreed. I gave up on AMD video cards a long time ago for personal use because of these reasons.
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post #4 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 08:05 AM
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I have an AMD HD4550 in my HTPC that has never been happier now that it's on Catalyst 11.8. My harddrive died on me in April this year and while reinstalling everything onto the new one I decided to go through that last year's worth of Catalyst versions to really find one that would give me minimal problems. Previously, my system would sometimes spontaneously crash on me when turning on the TV and the mute bug was also very prevalent. No more crashes now and while not entirely eliminated, the mute bug has reared it's head only once so far. I wish I could remember what version of Cat I was running back then, but it hardly matters now. Coupled with the latest Realtek HDMI drivers the HD4550 bitstreams DD and DTS to my AVR without any hiccups at all. My system uptime has never been so good.
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post #5 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 08:19 AM
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What errors??????????.

Me? I must just be really lucky, I've had a 4670, 5450 and now a 5670 and all have been rock solid in operation, with drivers from as far back as I can remember, yes there have been 'overscan' issues, but they stick as soon as they have been set, nothing of any note at all

Am I in the minority? smile.gif

Using 12.6 by the way.
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post #6 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

What errors??????????.
Me? I must just be really lucky, I've had a 4670, 5450 and now a 5670 and all have been rock solid in operation, with drivers from as far back as I can remember, yes there have been 'overscan' issues, but they stick as soon as they have been set, nothing of any note at all
Am I in the minority? smile.gif
Using 12.6 by the way.

I think it is completely dependent on the rest of your AV gear (receiver, HDTV, etc). Some have absolutely no issues and some have a nightmare. I was the latter with my 5450.
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post #7 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I've had issues with my 5450 and 5670 (this topic was about the 5670). I noticed that I was previously running 12.4, so now I'm trying 12.3. So good so far. If I have issues I'll try 11.8, or maybe I'll finally cut my losses and get an Nvidia card frown.gif
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post #8 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 09:51 AM
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I use 11.4.

I it ain't broke, don't fix it!
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post #9 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 10:14 AM
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Same here, 11.4

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post #10 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 10:46 AM
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my card is a 6870 and I have never had issues with any driver versions.
Currently I am using 12.7 beta.

Use Shark007 Codecs and retain your sanity.
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post #11 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 09:19 PM
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With some sadness I recently kicked AMD to the curb and replaced my HTPC with a G530 and an H61 motherboard. While the AMD PQ is beyond compare the driver issues were just a bit too much to tolerate. Now there is no occassional mute bug, or the display driver error where you had to minimize and then maximize 7MC to get things working, no more random video freeze when changing channels with the InfiniTV4, and no jumping through sound issue hoops like disabling navigation sounds or having to configure Windows with 2.1 sound.

I gave AMD more than the benefit of the doubt. I went through a couple of AMD cards (a 5450 and a 6570), all kinds of driver combos, and a few motherboards as well. Nothing ever cured the problems. Now everything just works and the WAF has increased exponentially in the process. If AMD can address those issues I would be happy to return. Until then...
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post #12 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Micromain View Post

With some sadness I recently kicked AMD to the curb and replaced my HTPC with a G530 and an H61 motherboard. While the AMD PQ is beyond compare the driver issues were just a bit too much to tolerate. Now there is no occassional mute bug, or the display driver error where you had to minimize and then maximize 7MC to get things working, no more random video freeze when changing channels with the InfiniTV4, and no jumping through sound issue hoops like disabling navigation sounds or having to configure Windows with 2.1 sound.
I gave AMD more than the benefit of the doubt. I went through a couple of AMD cards (a 5450 and a 6570), all kinds of driver combos, and a few motherboards as well. Nothing ever cured the problems. Now everything just works and the WAF has increased exponentially in the process. If AMD can address those issues I would be happy to return. Until then...

We had a heated poll and debate a few months ago and many well respected users on AVS felt that there was no difference in PQ on 1080p between Intel, NVidia or AMD. In fact, no one vendor really "won" the poll and that all three are bascially equal in PQ for 1080p. The take home was that AMD comes with all the post processing garbage turned on and some users like this look --- similar to the "torch mode" that you will find on almost every HDTV at Best (worst) Buy or similar showroom to oversaturate colors intentionally.

But I digress. I have had the same exact experience as you. I have tried ATI/AMD, NVidia and finally Intel iGPU and the Intel options just works. No more am I constantly tinkering and fussing with my HTPC. I can just watch the @#$% video and enjoy it. So can my wife. And even her 60 year old parents for whom I built a HTPC and they have only called me a handful of times to troubleshoot (once because they somehow flipped the screen display upside down).
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post #13 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

We had a heated poll and debate a few months ago and many well respected users on AVS felt that there was no difference in PQ on 1080p between Intel, NVidia or AMD. In fact, no one vendor really "won" the poll and that all three are bascially equal in PQ for 1080p. The take home was that AMD comes with all the post processing garbage turned on and some users like this look --- similar to the "torch mode" that you will find on almost every HDTV at Best (worst) Buy or similar showroom to oversaturate colors intentionally.
But I digress. I have had the same exact experience as you. I have tried ATI/AMD, NVidia and finally Intel iGPU and the Intel options just works. No more am I constantly tinkering and fussing with my HTPC. I can just watch the @#$% video and enjoy it. So can my wife. And even her 60 year old parents for whom I built a HTPC and they have only called me a handful of times to troubleshoot (once because they somehow flipped the screen display upside down).

+1, also went from Zacate to Intel Pentium G and i can`t see any difference in quality on a 60 inch Kuro Plasma or a 40 inch Sony LCD. No more hdmi handshake issues with the reiceiver when turning the machine on from sleep (like i had with ATI).

PS: Adam, check you PM box in 5 minutes, i`ve got something to tell you.
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post #14 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

We had a heated poll and debate a few months ago and many well respected users on AVS felt that there was no difference in PQ on 1080p between Intel, NVidia or AMD. In fact, no one vendor really "won" the poll and that all three are bascially equal in PQ for 1080p. The take home was that AMD comes with all the post processing garbage turned on and some users like this look --- similar to the "torch mode" that you will find on almost every HDTV at Best (worst) Buy or similar showroom to oversaturate colors intentionally.
But I digress. I have had the same exact experience as you. I have tried ATI/AMD, NVidia and finally Intel iGPU and the Intel options just works. No more am I constantly tinkering and fussing with my HTPC. I can just watch the @#$% video and enjoy it. So can my wife. And even her 60 year old parents for whom I built a HTPC and they have only called me a handful of times to troubleshoot (once because they somehow flipped the screen display upside down).
I agree that the PQ difference is minimal but it is there and I do notice it to a small degree. However, I am not one of those who is anal enough to get bent out of shape about it. imo, the WAF and having things just work is far far more important to me than being able to get the color, sharpness, or skin tones absolutely perfect. As a fan of AMD for well over a decade I am a bit disappointed though. I really wanted them to be the best solution. Unfortunately it hasn't turned out to be so, ime. Maybe with specific hardware combos AMD works perfectly? Unfortunately I never found it.
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post #15 of 45 Old 07-08-2012, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

We had a heated poll and debate a few months ago and many well respected users on AVS felt that there was no difference in PQ on 1080p between Intel, NVidia or AMD. In fact, no one vendor really "won" the poll and that all three are bascially equal in PQ for 1080p.

Not everything revolves around 1080p. There are plenty of video sources that are not 1080p, and it's no doubt (at least according to professional reviewers) that AMD has better video quality across the board.

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The take home was that AMD comes with all the post processing garbage turned on and some users like this look --- similar to the "torch mode" that you will find on almost every HDTV at Best (worst) Buy or similar showroom to oversaturate colors intentionally.

"post processing garbage"? No one complains when an outboard video processor does the exact same things that AMD does by default. Sheesh,

Quote:
But I digress. I have had the same exact experience as you. I have tried ATI/AMD, NVidia and finally Intel iGPU and the Intel options just works. No more am I constantly tinkering and fussing with my HTPC. I can just watch the @#$% video and enjoy it. So can my wife. And even her 60 year old parents for whom I built a HTPC and they have only called me a handful of times to troubleshoot (once because they somehow flipped the screen display upside down).

Let me rebut... most people don't have problems with their AMD cards and drivers. There are always going to be weird configurations that cause driver issues, but the other GPU vendors are not immune.
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post #16 of 45 Old 07-09-2012, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Not everything revolves around 1080p. There are plenty of video sources that are not 1080p, and it's no doubt (at least according to professional reviewers) that AMD has better video quality across the board.
PQ of low-resolution source material is rather subjective. If you like overly post-processed images, it may look better to you when you apply all these filters, but if you don't, well, then it won't.
Even PQ of HD material is subjective at times when it comes to post-processing, any serious reviewer would never flat out say "X has the better picture" (or if they do, i would stop reading).

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No one complains when an outboard video processor does the exact same things that AMD does by default.

I would complain. My TV and AVR are both set to output the video as untouched as possible.
Sadly you can't buy a good TV without all these features, so you have to turn them off as well.
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post #17 of 45 Old 07-09-2012, 04:07 AM
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most people don't have problems with their AMD cards and drivers... but the other GPU vendors are not immune.

Hmmm. So the fact that this thread was created by someone (who is very knowledgeable, I might add) and also additional posts by self-admitted fan boys of AMD who are having these issues doesn't mean anything?

And you also seem to think that "reviewers" are somehow better than the rest of us at knowing what's good and bad in HTPC. Well even the reviewers are getting tired of the AMD/ATI driver and I have seen multiple comments about buggy ATI/AMD driver for HTPC use. Like these nuggets from anand:
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Both AMD and NVIDIA GPUs suffer from a host of driver issues for the discerning HTPC user. Catalyst releases have been known to break GPU decoding in applications like VLC (something AMD has promised to fix in their next WHQL-certified driver). Supported refresh rates disappear from Catalyst if GPU scaling or ITC post processing is enabled. Different refresh rates default to different pixel formats on AMD cards. The HDMI audio driver maps the surround sounds in a 5.1 track to the rear surrounds in a 7.1 system on both NVIDIA and AMD cards. Both NVIDIA and AMD cards have been known to suffer from the silent stream bug at various points of time. Issues with RGB output levels and dithering resulting in banding artifacts on some displays have been reported on cards from both the vendors. The frustrating issue is that these problems get resolved in a particular driver release only to reappear in a later release. Unfortunately, issues like these are part and parcel of the HTPC experience. Both GPU vendors have a lot to learn from each other also.
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We just hope that AMD will be able to get its driver act together before then.

The bolded is what drove me absolutely insane and why I moved away and seems to be much more prevalent in AMD's drivers than the other vendors for whatever reason. I am sure gamers have no issues with the AMD drivers but HTPC users are largely forgotten. Maybe that's why the Intel drivers --- while not perfect either --- are much less prone to the bugs and "just work" as Intel isn't focused on appeasing any specific group of users.

And once again Nev --- who knows more about PQ than many of us put together --- has stated his opinion yet it will largely go unnoticed by the AMD fans on this forum.

Finally, if you want the torch mode similar to the AMD experience then turn all those settings on. They are turned off by default with NVidia and Intel and turned on by default with AMD.
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post #18 of 45 Old 07-09-2012, 05:07 AM
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At least i seem to be lucky with my drivers, running 12.6 now on my 7750, and so far everything is good.
But then i also don't use WMC or even the EVR, so maybe not all potential problems would surface with madVR, because it behaves more like a game then a video renderer, for exactly the reason to avoid some issues with the drivers.
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post #19 of 45 Old 07-09-2012, 09:43 PM
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I updated from 12.3 to 12.6 a few days ago on my HD5670 it started randomly freezing in videos. Went back to 12.3 and everything was fine.
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post #20 of 45 Old 07-09-2012, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Hmmm. So the fact that this thread was created by someone (who is very knowledgeable, I might add) and also additional posts by self-admitted fan boys of AMD who are having these issues doesn't mean anything?

You do realize that there are plenty of people out there who have AMD cards and don't have (or don't notice) the problems that you are complaining about. Even in this thread you have people who have never had a problem through multiple generations of AMD cards. I've had 5 different generations of AMD cards all the way back to the Radeon 8500LE used strictly for video (not gaming)... 3 generations of Nvidia cards all the way back to the 6600GT strictly for video (I've had several Nvidia cards before the 6600GT for gaming), and various throw-away IGPs: AMD, Nvidia, and even Intel all the way up to a HD3000. I've never had issues with video drivers. Maybe I'm lucky, I don't know.

As for the AMD "fanboy" comments... If you've been around in the HTPC world more than the last few years, you would know that AMD has always had the better video playback hardware. This is fact.

Quote:
And you also seem to think that "reviewers" are somehow better than the rest of us at knowing what's good and bad in HTPC.

You are perfectly fine having your own opinion, but you seem so hell-bent on preventing others from having one? My opinion is based upon over a decade of building and using HTPCs... and yes "reviewers".

I'm not saying you are full of crap, but you have a real problem with anyone who disagrees with you. You haven't cornered the market on HTPC knowledge, my friend.
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post #21 of 45 Old 07-09-2012, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

PQ of low-resolution source material is rather subjective. If you like overly post-processed images, it may look better to you when you apply all these filters, but if you don't, well, then it won't.

Just in the process of scaling a low-resolution source to 720/1080p, we destroy the integrity of the original image. We don't have the luxury of multiple scan-rate compatible CRTs anymore. Since we are already distorting the original low-resolution source to begin with, why not try to enhance it or attempt to try to restore the original integrity with post-processing?

Quote:
Even PQ of HD material is subjective at times when it comes to post-processing, any serious reviewer would never flat out say "X has the better picture" (or if they do, i would stop reading).

HD is tougher to discern at normal distances or on smaller screens... but I promise you when you have a large screen (projector) or sit closer than "ideal" these details do matter.

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I would complain. My TV and AVR are both set to output the video as untouched as possible.
Sadly you can't buy a good TV without all these features, so you have to turn them off as well.

Agreed. Not all post-processing is useful or even desired, but it's useful in some occasions that they are available. I don't really understand all the fuss about using post-processing... directors use post-processing to acheive certain effects in video, and in the audio world post-processing by the artists is pretty much across the board.

We don't get bent out of shape when we use our AVRs to process 2.0 stereo into psuedo 5.1 do we? We don't bat an eye at resampling audio to 24bit or beyond do we? We love the fact that our AVRs can do digital room correction... but obviously none of this is what the original audio file was designed to sound like.
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post #22 of 45 Old 07-09-2012, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

.......You know the drill. Now, on boot up, my overscan settings are not respected, so I have black bars on the top and bottom and sides of my TV. If I open catalyst, it says I have overscan compensation turned off, but obviously that's not true, because I'm seeing black bars. I then simply drag the slider away from it's position on the far right and then back to the same position, and everything is fixed. But if I have to reboot my HTPC, the black bars are back...

This is the fact that Catalyst doesn't know what the TV chipset do with the signal it sends, front porch, back porch etc. I have this problem with a Phillips TV but the Broadcom chipset in a different TV works just fine. There are software to manually adjust the front porch and back porch but I'm just not smart enough to get my Phillips TV working. Phillips stop supporting drivers for their TVs and I can't find a profile close enough to get the borders just right.
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post #23 of 45 Old 07-10-2012, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

This is getting so old. So I was running Catalyst 12.3 (correction: 12.4), and the video card's sound card driver just completely stopped working. So I uninstalled, rebooted, ran drive sweeper, rebooted, installed 12.6, and rebooted. You know the drill. Now, on boot up, my overscan settings are not respected, so I have black bars on the top and bottom and sides of my TV. If I open catalyst, it says I have overscan compensation turned off, but obviously that's not true, because I'm seeing black bars. I then simply drag the slider away from it's position on the far right and then back to the same position, and everything is fixed. But if I have to reboot my HTPC, the black bars are back. This is not unlike another serious problem I have with catalyst.
This is utterly preposterous that AMD can't make a video card driver that doesn't seriously break my HTPC. This is a clean install of Windows 7. Only things installed are chipset drivers, lan drivers, Catalyst, and Jriver. Is there a particular Catalyst driver that is considered more stable than others or one that's recommended for HTPC use?

Give these a try: Copy and paste URL http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/previous/10/Pages/radeon.aspx?os=Windows Vista - 32-Bit Edition&rev=10.12
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post #24 of 45 Old 07-10-2012, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

but you have a real problem with anyone who disagrees with you. You haven't cornered the market on HTPC knowledge, my friend.

Well if that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.
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post #25 of 45 Old 07-10-2012, 12:08 PM
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Well if that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is.

The tortured genius returns.
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post #26 of 45 Old 07-10-2012, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, this is just getting ridiculous. All that post-processing junk that is disabled by default that I promptly disable after installing just spontaneously turned on. I was trying out XBMC again and I thought I was going mad because no matter which pixel format settings I chose, colors looked messed up. Unbelievable. This is on 12.3. Can an external program trigger these events? Could installing XBMC having reset the post-processing options?
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post #27 of 45 Old 07-10-2012, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

Okay, this is just getting ridiculous. All that post-processing junk that is disabled by default that I promptly disabled by default just spontaneously turned on. I was trying out XBMC again and I thought I was going mad because no matter which pixel format settings I chose, colors looked messed up. Unbelievable. This is on 12.3. Can an external program trigger these events? Could installing XBMC having reset the post-processing options?

Must.......resist......snide.........comment
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post #28 of 45 Old 07-10-2012, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

Okay, this is just getting ridiculous. All that post-processing junk that is disabled by default that I promptly disabled by default just spontaneously turned on. I was trying out XBMC again and I thought I was going mad because no matter which pixel format settings I chose, colors looked messed up. Unbelievable. This is on 12.3. Can an external program trigger these events? Could installing XBMC having reset the post-processing options?

As far as i know, no. I think programs can control the pixel format or the color range or de-interlancing via the DXVA API , but certainly not post-processing features, those are proprietary AMD features. Try 12.4 smile.gif
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post #29 of 45 Old 07-10-2012, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

As far as i know, no. I think programs can control the pixel format or the color range or de-interlancing via the DXVA API , but certainly not post-processing features, those are proprietary AMD features. Try 12.4 smile.gif

Yeah but when I was using 12.4, my audio driver randomly broke. Maybe it's time to go back to 11.x.
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post #30 of 45 Old 07-10-2012, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

Yeah but when I was using 12.4, my audio driver randomly broke. Maybe it's time to go back to 11.x.

Why did you update in the first place? Was something not working?
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