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post #1 of 138 Old 07-10-2012, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a little informal poll to see who's using what and how they feel about them. I was looking into Private Internet Access...does anyone have experience with/opinions of them? It was this (dated) article that got me wondering what everyone here uses and what they think.
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post #2 of 138 Old 07-10-2012, 09:36 PM
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Used Nortel for ages. While it worked fine, the Cisco we changed to is just a lot better. It reconnects after a short interruption without needing to reenter a new passcode.
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post #3 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 03:32 AM
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post #4 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Privatvpn. Recommended.

I was excited for this because I really value your opinion, but on their FAQ I saw this: "8. Do you log any IP numbers on the server in the U.S.?
Yes, we log IP numbers on the server in the U.S.. This is because the laws of the United States."

It made me a little leary...I'm looking for being as close to totally anonymous as is possible. I'm not even sure how true that statement is, especially after reading what the EFF says. The first sentence of that seems to contradict what PrivatVPN says ("The United States currently has no mandatory data retention law.").

I guess I could log into a different server outside of the US, but wouldn't that kill my speed?

Anyone else wanna chime in?
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post #5 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeTuesday View Post

I was excited for this because I really value your opinion, but on their FAQ I saw this: "8. Do you log any IP numbers on the server in the U.S.?
Yes, we log IP numbers on the server in the U.S.. This is because the laws of the United States."
It made me a little leary...I'm looking for being as close to totally anonymous as is possible. I'm not even sure how true that statement is, especially after reading what the EFF says. The first sentence of that seems to contradict what PrivatVPN says ("The United States currently has no mandatory data retention law.").
I guess I could log into a different server outside of the US, but wouldn't that kill my speed?
Anyone else wanna chime in?

Doesn't affect my speed at all as I get the max that I pay for. I don't ever log-in to US servers so for me its a non-issue.

Check torrent freak dot com for an article about who logs what.

Edit: Here you go: http://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-providers-really-take-anonymity-seriously-111007/
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post #6 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Doesn't affect my speed at all as I get the max that I pay for. I don't ever log-in to US servers so for me its a non-issue.
Check torrent freak dot com for an article about who logs what.
Edit: Here you go: http://torrentfreak.com/which-vpn-providers-really-take-anonymity-seriously-111007/

OK. I'll give it a try. Thanks!

That torrent freak article you are talking about is what sent me down this road in the first place. I stumbled upon it after reading about the HMA fiasco from last year.

This may seem a little over the top paranoia-wise, but has anyone ever tried the tunnel in a tunnel technique described in this article?
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post #7 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 01:29 PM
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I set up VPN using this article a while back. Works great!
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post #8 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeTuesday View Post

OK. I'll give it a try. Thanks!
That torrent freak article you are talking about is what sent me down this road in the first place. I stumbled upon it after reading about the HMA fiasco from last year.
This may seem a little over the top paranoia-wise, but has anyone ever tried the tunnel in a tunnel technique described in this article?

It was rec to me by an AVS member. I am sure there are others that are equally as good.
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post #9 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 02:30 PM
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ssl encrypted news.

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post #10 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 03:21 PM
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I've been using hidemyass! for the last few weeks. Speed is adequate, but not outstanding. Disconnects are pretty rare. Has enough bandwidth to watch BBC iPlayer from their UK servers w/ pretty good quality.

My plan is to try VyprVPN after my one month with HMA is done. It's more expense, but has some advantages I wanna try.
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post #11 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

I've been using hidemyass! for the last few weeks. Speed is adequate, but not outstanding. Disconnects are pretty rare. Has enough bandwidth to watch BBC iPlayer from their UK servers w/ pretty good quality.
My plan is to try VyprVPN after my one month with HMA is done. It's more expense, but has some advantages I wanna try.

HMA logs and turns over those logs when asked for them.
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post #12 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

HMA logs and turns over those logs when asked for them.

Yeah. It really sucks that you can pay a company to do something and they do the exact opposite. It's hard to believe they are still around.
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post #13 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

HMA logs and turns over those logs when asked for them.

Whether they admit it or not, they ALL log for a certain period of time. And yes -- I've read the above-referenced torrent freak article numerous times.

I don't plan on compromising national security or hacking Sony to get all their user info.
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post #14 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 03:49 PM
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Binaries over ssl will only show as bits and bytes coming in to you over an ssl encrypted connection.
What's in those bits and bytes is not known to the outside world.

Just in case you're worried about something.

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post #15 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

Whether they admit it or not, they ALL log for a certain period of time. And yes -- I've read the above-referenced torrent freak article numerous times.
I don't plan on compromising national security or hacking Sony to get all their user info.

Understood. But I am also not going to choose someone that I know folds like a lawn chair when pressured when there are other options.

Now admittedly I have no idea whether the others will fold but I already know what HMA will do. The whole thing reminds me of a modern day witch hunt.

BTW PrivatVPN is a direct knockoff of HMA's dashboard. So if you like HMA you will likely dig PrivatVPN's controls and options.
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post #16 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Understood. But I am also not going to choose someone that I know folds like a lawn chair when pressured when there are other options.
Now admittedly I have no idea whether the others will fold but I already know what HMA will do. The whole thing reminds me of a modern day witch hunt.
BTW PrivatVPN is a direct knockoff of HMA's dashboard. So if you like HMA you will likely dig PrivatVPN's controls and options.

1) Court orders are court orders. Heck, even your personal fav 'PrivatVPN' admits that they keep logs on their US servers, which will undoubtedly be their best servers in terms of speed for US customers:

"Do you log any data traffic while browsing the net through PrivatVPN?

We NEVER produce logs of any data traffic. The only thing we store is your username, password and your e-mail address.

With the exception of our servers in the U.S. where we log IP addresses on incoming connections."

2) Agreed on the 2nd line. I think HMA! got really friggin' unlucky

3) Good to know about HMA's dashboard and Privat's dashboard/functionality, but I'm assuming this is the case for Windows only? HMA has an OS X app. Just because PrivatVPN can be used by OS X doesn't mean it will have a dashboard for OS X. I generally only use VPN on my macs.

BTW, this is a great topic, and thanks to the OP for bringing it up. The land of 'VPN review sites' seems to be replete with thinly-veiled ads for dubious lesser-known VPN's.smile.gif
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post #17 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:10 PM
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Also very effective at counteracting isp traffic shaping as well.

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post #18 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Also very effective at counteracting isp traffic shaping as well.

Yeah, I think that is the subtext for a lot of our paranoia.
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post #19 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:21 PM
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I think that, if people are going to use their VPN's for, let's just call them 'questionable,' activities, probably the most important tidbit is that you should know where their company is headquartered, and you should not use their US (or UK) servers for pretty much anything if you want to increase your likelihood of 'anonymity.'
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post #20 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:27 PM
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But if it is not know what all those binary files were then what's the issue?

The shaping is looking at certain ports and structure of files by the ISP and slowing traffic to those ports or file types.

http://www.giganews.com/blog/labels/ssl

http://www.giganews.com/blog/labels/encryption

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post #21 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

Whether they admit it or not, they ALL log for a certain period of time. And yes -- I've read the above-referenced torrent freak article numerous times.
I don't plan on compromising national security or hacking Sony to get all their user info.

But do they keep the logs? That is what is key, right? If they don't then they have nothing to give up even under court order. Unfortunately, all I can find is what each company says they do, and we all know how much we can trust that. And, like you said, all the "review" sites are just obvious marketing campaigns for these unheard of VPN's. That's kinda why I started the thread...I trust people here more than other places on the internet.

What I would really like to see is a few news articles about a VPN that DID get served with orders, but due to their policy of not keeping logs, had nothing to give.
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post #22 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeTuesday View Post

But do they keep the logs? That is what is key, right? If they don't then they have nothing to give up even under court order. Unfortunately, all I can find is what each company says they do, and we all know how much we can trust that. And, like you said, all the "review" sites are just obvious marketing campaigns for these unheard of VPN's. That's kinda why I started the thread...I trust people here more than other places on the internet.
What I would really like to see is a few news articles about a VPN that DID get served with orders, but due to their policy of not keeping logs, had nothing to give.


I agree with exactly what you're saying, and that's why I think this is a great topic.

As for the bolded -- don't expect to find anything of the kind, unfortunately.frown.gif
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post #23 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

But if it is not know what all those binary files were then what's the issue?
The shaping is looking at certain ports and structure of files by the ISP and slowing traffic to those ports or file types.
http://www.giganews.com/blog/labels/ssl
http://www.giganews.com/blog/labels/encryption

Remember the first rule of newsgroups and the first rule of fight club are the same. Same goes for their second rules smile.gif

That being said, I've heard people make the same arguments for newsgroups, vpn, bit tors, and I don't know enough about any of them. I tend to think of anonymity as a false hope. Where there is a will there seems to be a way, especially in today's interwebs.
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post #24 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:45 PM
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I love fight club.

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post #25 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I love fight club.

Me too.

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post #26 of 138 Old 07-11-2012, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewOrlnsDukie View Post

1) Court orders are court orders. Heck, even your personal fav 'PrivatVPN' admits that they keep logs on their US servers, which will undoubtedly be their best servers in terms of speed for US customers:
"Do you log any data traffic while browsing the net through PrivatVPN?
We NEVER produce logs of any data traffic. The only thing we store is your username, password and your e-mail address.
With the exception of our servers in the U.S. where we log IP addresses on incoming connections."
2) Agreed on the 2nd line. I think HMA! got really friggin' unlucky
3) Good to know about HMA's dashboard and Privat's dashboard/functionality, but I'm assuming this is the case for Windows only? HMA has an OS X app. Just because PrivatVPN can be used by OS X doesn't mean it will have a dashboard for OS X. I generally only use VPN on my macs.
BTW, this is a great topic, and thanks to the OP for bringing it up. The land of 'VPN review sites' seems to be replete with thinly-veiled ads for dubious lesser-known VPN's.smile.gif

Dashboard is likely the same.

As I have said I get full speed wherever I log in to and I don't ever use the USA.
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post #27 of 138 Old 07-12-2012, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Dashboard is likely the same.
As I have said I get full speed wherever I log in to and I don't ever use the USA.

You don't use USA because ... ?

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post #28 of 138 Old 07-12-2012, 08:28 AM
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You don't use USA because ... ?

Because our country is crazy when it comes to these laws and I don't trust them. Just my opinion.
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post #29 of 138 Old 07-12-2012, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeTuesday View Post

But do they keep the logs? That is what is key, right? If they don't then they have nothing to give up even under court order. Unfortunately, all I can find is what each company says they do, and we all know how much we can trust that. And, like you said, all the "review" sites are just obvious marketing campaigns for these unheard of VPN's. That's kinda why I started the thread...I trust people here more than other places on the internet.
What I would really like to see is a few news articles about a VPN that DID get served with orders, but due to their policy of not keeping logs, had nothing to give.

Rent a VPS/seedbox with root access, install your own proxy/VPN, route all your ISP traffic through there and then you will control the VPN/proxy log retentions. Heck most VPS/seedbox companies will set it all up for you if you ask. If you go outside US for the VPS then the IP to remote sites will be foreign and anyone looking will have to go through 2 steps to get back to you and only then via payments if you set it up correctly. Probably a bit more expensive that a pure VPN service but VPS slices with limited storage/traffic can be pretty low cost and if log anonymity is what you're after that should do it. FWIW I'm routed through one right now as I write this smile.gif
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post #30 of 138 Old 07-12-2012, 09:06 AM
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It is a constitutional right to own art for a limited time. Problem is, at the bequest of Disney et al, that time has become unlimited and the goverment uses their vested police authority to enforce it.

United States Constitution

Article I, Section 8, Clause 8 of the United States Constitution, known as the Copyright Clause, empowers the United States Congress:

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
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Although perpetual copyrights and patents are prohibited—the language specifies "limited times"—the Supreme Court has ruled in Eldred v. Ashcroft (2003) that repeated extensions to the term of copyright do not constitute a perpetual copyright. In that case, the United States Supreme Court rejected a challenge to the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, also known pejoratively as the "Mickey Mouse Protection Act."[5] Petitioners in that case argued that successive retroactive extensions of copyright were functionally unlimited and hence violated the limited times language of the clause. Justice Ginsburg, writing for the Court, rejected this argument, reasoning that the terms provided by the Act were limited in duration and noted that Congress had a long history of granting retroactive extensions.

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