HDD speeds 7200rpm vs GREEN. Network speeds from movie server discussion for SAMMY2 Continued - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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This thread is for Sammy2 who asked in my network connection issue thread (which I resolved and determined my router was not gigabit)

Here is the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1419935/help-i-only-get-11mb-sec-transfer-speeds-to-and-from-my-whs2011-media-server-what-should-i-do

Here is the question: (I only started a new thread since the topic is not a connection issue on a server)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

How long should it take to move, say 100GB, over a 1gbps network with SATA II drives spining at 5940 RPM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

real calculation is more like 100GB
1024 X 100 = 102,400 MB in 100GB.
So if you write at 90MB/sec to your 5490rpm drive then it would take 102,400MB divided by 90 = 9000 seconds. 9000 seconds is about 18.9 minutes.
Hope I did that right this time. Lol.

I believe that 1024MB = 1GB and so 100 GB would be 102,400 MB. Someone confirm this for me or else everything else I do is wrong. lol.

But if so- It takes me about 20-21 minutes over my server and network to paste 100GB from my Desktop to my server. This is at about 80MB/sec.

A green drive is faster than that alone- probably closer to 100MB sec in good setting and 90MB sec in a conservative estimate - especially when it's older or filled up.

So it would take 18 or so minutes on a green drive transfer speed.

In contrast, a good 7200rpm set up (I used my Samsungs) can approach 150MB sec. I also got 134MB/sec on another 2TB Hitachi 7200RPM. Pasting from my SSD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

133Gb = 133000Mb
(1366Mbits/s)/(8Mbits/MB) = 170MB/s
133000/170 = 779s or 13minutes

First of all the speeds your posting for a green drive are a pipe dream.

Green drives are slow.

I will repeat: SLOW.

I was accurate by my experience when I used 90MB/sec transfer. I own 5 different versions of GREEN drives. Different sizes and brands. All modern. All hooked up directly to motherboard with SATA cables. Some even SATA3, both drive and motherboard port.

You might get higher than 100MB/sec on certain easy things but realistically your not going to see speeds much faster than that.

In contrast I get 150/MB sec on my 7200rpm HDD.

I just tested:


So it would only take 102,400 divided by 150 = 682 divided by 60 = 11 minutes. 11 minutes for a really good 7200rpm HDD. Closer to 13 for normal. Closer to 18 for Green. and 21 minutes over a basic network at 80MB/sec transfer.

I have seen many with network speeds about as fast as a green drive. So to answer your question- it takes about as fast as your 5900rpm drive can handle- or write at.

A good network is about as fast as a 5900RPM write speed I believe. Both near 100/MB sec.

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post #2 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is some benchmarks for you:

456

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post #3 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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536

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post #4 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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My VERTEX3 SSD array on my desktop for comparison sake: (MIND = BLOWN)

385

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post #5 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

My VERTEX3 SSD array on my desktop for comparison sake: (MIND = BLOWN)
385

So yes- It would take me 102,400 MB divided by 1000MB sec = 102.4 second. That's less than two minutes.

A RAID0 240GB VERTEX3 array costs about $140-$150 on sale. Talk about a performance bargain!!!

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post #6 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:20 PM
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My 5400rpm drives are almost full and write/read speed is slower for newly added stuff. Another thing to think about if you like to fill up your hard drives.

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post #7 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

My 5400rpm drives are almost full and write/read speed is slower for newly added stuff. Another thing to think about if you like to fill up your hard drives.

Right. I used 90MB/sec for his drive because I was being nice. Real world your certainly going to get slower if its old and filled up. But in a perfect fresh state it probably hits over 100MB/sec in a perfect benchmark setting empty.

I just used 90MB because I thought it was realistic for a server running on those- or a PC with one installed. Seems about right to me.

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post #8 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:26 PM
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Accoring to this caclulator, transferring 100GB of data over a 1Gbps network requires 12.4176 minutes.

Data Transfer Time Calculator
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post #9 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Accoring to this caclulator, transferring 100GB of data over a 1Gbps network requires 12.4176 minutes.
Data Transfer Time Calculator

I think you did it wrong:

117

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post #10 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Accoring to this caclulator, transferring 100GB of data over a 1Gbps network requires 12.4176 minutes.
Data Transfer Time Calculator

90MB/sec is different than mbps.

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post #11 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:38 PM
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I have a 133GB back from my 1 TB 7200RPM Seagate boot up drive using crashplan local (free) from my PC to a 2TB Coolspin drive that is about 30% full on my HTPC right now and the initial estimate was 23 HOURS over a gigabit LAN that is optimized. I had to go to work right after so I did not get a chance to see if it went down to a more reasonable number. I know that there is compression and encryption invoved, but 23 HOURS?

I can d/l 25GB in about 15 minutes over my internet connection which goes through my router to my Coolspin Drives on my PC so I know that the network is working fast enough and the bottleneck is still the green drive at just under 30Mbps

So I should be able to move 133GB in just over an hour at 30Mbps, not 24 Hours. Something else is up. I rarely move large files over my network but it streams HD movies just fine so maybe I need to do some optimization.

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post #12 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT: I realize now Zon2020 used the theoretically maximum of 1000mbps or gigaswitch speed. If that is the max your port on your switch or router runs and you could actually achieve and sustain that maximum transfer speed of 1000mbps for a file copy and paste of 100GB then yes the math means it takes 12.4 minutes.

Note: This will never happen.

More realistic is 90MB/sec transfer speed. Close to 18 minutes.

On my network I am slower than that. It would take me just over 20 minutes near 80MB/sec.

My point was his green 5940rpm drive is about the same write speed as a good network. It's going to realistically take between 15 and 22 minutes for most people to paste 100GB over a home network.

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post #13 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zon2020 View Post

Accoring to this caclulator, transferring 100GB of data over a 1Gbps network requires 12.4176 minutes.
Data Transfer Time Calculator

Lol, if the calculator says it, must be true!! Are you an engineer?
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post #14 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I have a 133GB back from my 1 TB 7200RPM Seagate boot up using crashplan local (free) from my PC to a 2TB Coolspin drive that is about 30% full on my HTPC right now and the initial estimate was 23 HOURS over a gigabit LAN that is optimized. I had to go to work right after so I did not get a chance to see if it went down to a more reasonable number. I know that there is compression and encryption invoved, but 23 HOURS?
I can d/l 25GB in about 15 minutes over my internet connection which goes through my router to my Coolspin Drives on my PC so I know that the network is working fast enough and the bottleneck is still the green drive at just under 30Mbps
So I should be able to move 133GB in just over an hour at 30Mbps, not 24 Hours. Something else is up. I rarely move large files over my network but it streams HD movies just fine so maybe I need to do some optimization.

Yup. I would be happy to help you. I been dealing with this stuff myself and I think I finally got my head wrapped around it.

23 hours. Da fuq ???

That seems silly. Something is wrong.

Your HDD speeds are what they are. They are not the problem. Even slow green drives allow near 100MB sec speeds optimized. While I consider this very slow- it's really not. It's pretty good compared to network speed factors. I would be thrilled if I got a full 90MB/sec on my network. Some here on AVS do BTW.


You should be near 23 minutes. Not 23 hours. lol.

Your green drive should be faster than 30MB/sec. I bet your issue is either your connected at 10/100 network speeds and not giga 1000mbps speed- or you have network throttling issues.

I can help with both if needed. I had both issues myself.

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post #15 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Lol, if the calculator says it, must be true!! Are you an engineer?

He probably just smarter than me. lol.

The calculator was a nice add to this conversation.

I did all my math with an iphone numeric calculator or in my head. lol.

The issue I have is he is using a theoretical maximum speed of the port/switch/connection potential and not the real world actual copy and paste achieved transfer speed.

The difference can be significant.

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post #16 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:45 PM
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Also, the peak theoretical speed of a 1 Gbps is 128 MBps. A no loss transfer should be 13.3 minutes. Not sure why the calculator is beating that, unless it's using ISO GB with some weird correction factor
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post #17 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:49 PM
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I'm thinking there's some encryption and compression times going on with the back up too but not that much. It could have gone down after I left as it stablized and I wasn't there clicking around avs or something slowing it down. This is a back up of program files, program data, windows and family photos as well as my music library so that could have something to do with it too.

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post #18 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:52 PM
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Just got this email from CrashPlan CS:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrashPlanCS 
How long your data takes to upload depends on a variety of factors, and there are various things you can do to speed it up. With your initial upload to CrashPlan Central, you'll want to keep your computer running until the backup completes. Make sure your computer is not set to Sleep when you're away, as the CrashPlan backup engine will not run while the computer is in Sleep mode.

If you're still experiencing upload speeds that are slower than you expect, there are several things you can try tweaking in the CrashPlan application to see if it makes an improvement. By default, CrashPlan has set speed throttles in the application to prevent the program from using too much of your system's resources. You can adjust these settings to improve performance. The first thing you can do is to look at these settings and adjust them accordingly.

Follow this link for details on what settings to adjust in CrashPlan:

http://support.crashplan.com/doku.php/recipe/speeding_up_your_backup

* Settings > Network: Increase the allowed sending rate. WAN is for backups over the Internet and LAN is for backups over your computer's local network. Start by setting the limit to “none”. If this slows down your network, try dropping it back down to 1Mbps, or lower if needed.

* Settings > General: Increase the amount of CPU CrashPlan is allowed to use when the user is both away and present. Start by increasing to 90 - 100% for both. You can always scale back if CrashPlan interferes with your work.

Note: Once you change some of these settings you may not notice an immediate improvement. Give it a day or so to see if it improves.

Please let me know if you have additional questions, or further issues.

I suppose I need to check on that when I get back home.

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post #19 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Sammy2

Are you talking about uploading over the internet?

Or transfer over a network ??

Totally different things.

I know my upload speed on my internet is about 4mb while download is near 20mb. So uploading online takes a long time.

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post #20 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I can d/l 25GB in about 15 minutes over my internet connection

Your download speeds are usually 10-20 times faster than upload speeds, and with online backup solutions you are UPloading everything to their servers. Servers which, btw, also probably have a healthy throttle on what they'll accept since their taking so many inbound connections. If you're strictly concerned with a large cloud backup, this has nothing to do with hard drives in your system
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post #21 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Sammy2
Are you talking about uploading over the internet?
Or transfer over a network ??
Totally different things.
I know my upload speed on my internet is about 4mb while download is near 20mb. So uploading online takes a long time.

jeez, beating me to every one biggrin.gif
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post #22 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

jeez, beating me to every one biggrin.gif

lol. Must be my fast PC and connection smile.gif

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post #23 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 01:07 PM
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This is a local backup over LAN not over WAN and the internet.

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post #24 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 01:15 PM
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I just checked my settings and it is at 20% CPU utilization while I'm using the computer but it goes to 80% after 15 minutes of idle time so I think it will be done when I get home. There is some time envolved to encrypt and compress all these files and the OS files probably take additional time to back up.

General Settings read-only
User is away when not active for: 15 minutes
When user is away, use up to: 80 percent CPU
When user is present, use up to: 20 percent CPU
Show full paths on Backup tab: Yes
Language: Automatic

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post #25 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

This is a local backup over LAN not over WAN and the internet.
But using CrashPlan software, right? I keep meaning to play w/ Crashplan, but haven't yet. I wonder if it employs its own throttling such that an in-progress backup doesn't negatively impact network performance. A possibility anyway...
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post #26 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 01:19 PM
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Yup. See above.

I've used it for a long time but previously it was to an external eSATA drive and that was pretty quick. I probably changed the settings when I re-installed it again after about a 6 mounth hiatus.

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post #27 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I believe that 1024MB = 1GB and so 100 GB would be 102,400 MB. Someone confirm this for me or else everything else I do is wrong. lol.

1GB to most of the world is 1024MB... but to Hard Drive manufacturers 1GB is 1000MB
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post #28 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

This is a local backup over LAN not over WAN and the internet.

You really got me confused.

"I can d/l 25GB in about 15 minutes over my internet connection which goes through my router"

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post #29 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 07:01 PM
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Local HD transfer speed =/= LAN transfer speed =/= internet upload speed =/= internet download speed

This whole thread is a mess.
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post #30 of 57 Old 07-12-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
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This whole thread is a mess.

I don't understand it either.
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