PowerDVD12 standard or corel for ripping BD - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 07-14-2012, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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PowerDVD12 standard or corel (or other suggestion) both are the same cost so which is preferred and why.

I'm planning on ripping some BD to HDD w/ this USB drive.

from what I understand this player doe'snt come w/ software for BD playback.

http://www.amazon.com/Blu-Ray-Player-External-Laptop-Burner/dp/B001TVAU0E/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1342273524&sr=8-3&keywords=usb+blue+ray+drive

?1.how do I know beforehand that my PCs I3 (550) CPU is capable of playing BD?

Thanks STB

 

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post #2 of 21 Old 07-15-2012, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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anyone w/ advice?

 

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post #3 of 21 Old 07-15-2012, 06:20 AM
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As far as I know, PowerDVD will not rip BD to your hard drive. To rip, you'll need something like AnyDVDHD or DVDFab.

Personally, I find ripping is quicker with a desktop reader than a portable.
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post #4 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the heads up on the software this will be my first attemp at ripping a BD disc.

so which software of the 2 would you recommend as being the easiest?

I'm kindof leaning toward the portable type BD player for ease of plugging into computer like if I got a desktop type then I would have to dissasemble the PC remove the orginal DVD player (I do use this DVD burner to make regular DVDs)
and swap in the BD.
also I could use portable on my LT I'm still doing research so I haven't comitted to either type of BD.

BTW what are the rip BD time differnce between the portable and the desktop type BD for like a 2 hour show?

doe's AnyDVDHD or DVDFab convert BDs into MKV.



Thanks STB

 

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post #5 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

thanks for the heads up on the software this will be my first attemp at ripping a BD disc.
so which software of the 2 would you recommend as being the easiest?
I'm kindof leaning toward the portable type BD player for ease of plugging into computer like if I got a desktop type then I would have to dissasemble the PC remove the orginal DVD player (I do use this DVD burner to make regular DVDs)
and swap in the BD.
also I could use portable on my LT I'm still doing research so I haven't comitted to either type of BD.
BTW what are the rip BD time differnce between the portable and the desktop type BD for like a 2 hour show?
doe's AnyDVDHD or DVDFab convert BDs into MKV.
Thanks STB

I think both are great but DVDFab makes ripping only the main movie and specific audio tracks much easier. You could also try makemkv which is free for now. The problem with makemkv is that it may not be updated as frequently as DVDFab or Any dvdHD to handle new protection schemes.

For ripping, the portable may be rip-locked so you'er stuck with ripping at 2x (roughly 50 minutes for a 2 hour show if I'm not mistaken).
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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when I purchase a OEM type BD drive I believe I will need to provide it w/ some operating software (my PC did'nt come w/ a BD player) have read that the software uasalley cost about as much as a ecomical BD player around $50.

this is why I thought I needed powerDVD12 or the corel compared to MakeMKV.

Thanks STB

 

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post #7 of 21 Old 07-16-2012, 05:46 PM
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Many oem drives come with playback software. Don't purchase anything until your get he drive.

If you want to play back BR rips, you can use mpc-hc which is free.
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post #8 of 21 Old 07-17-2012, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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please recommend a BD player w/ included software. both USB and desktop type.
Thanks STB

 

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post #9 of 21 Old 07-17-2012, 06:13 PM
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Personally, I use an older 8x combo BR reader/dvd-rw drive with an Asus oem version of Totalmedia Theater 3. I use TMT3 because that's what came with my Asus Xonar sound card.

I think any LG drive would be fine and the LGs ship with an oem version of PowerDVD.
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-18-2012, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll check into the LGs BD this powerdvd they come shipped w/ is this a 30 day trail version?

what is OEM software a stripped down version of separtaley sold software?

I'm kindof leaning toward makeMKV for ripping instead of DVDfab and anyDVD mainly to conserve HDD space.

can MKV files be burned to a regular DVD and still have BD quaiity?

or must the MKV file be played back from HDD to have the BD quaility?

Thanks STB

 

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post #11 of 21 Old 07-18-2012, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

I'll check into the LGs BD this powerdvd they come shipped w/ is this a 30 day trail version?
what is OEM software a stripped down version of separtaley sold software?
I'm kindof leaning toward makeMKV for ripping instead of DVDfab and anyDVD mainly to conserve HDD space.
can MKV files be burned to a regular DVD and still have BD quaiity?
or must the MKV file be played back from HDD to have the BD quaility?
Thanks STB

The oem versions may not have all of the fancy features but it includes the features that most users will need, which is playing BDs and DVDs.

An mkv is just a data file containing video, audio, and subtitles in a single file, just like an m2ts file. There is no way that I know of to fit an uncompressed BD onto a DVD, single layer or double layer. Once you start compressing, you're going to lose video and audio quality. HD audio tracks can take up 6 GB on their own.

If you want to conserve space, limit your rip to the main movie, the HD track, and subtitles.
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post #12 of 21 Old 07-18-2012, 06:19 AM
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1. If you intend on ripping to mkv then you don't need BD playback software like powerDVD.
2. If you rip to mkv without re-encoding (preferred so that quality is retained) then you won't be saving much hard disk space since all you are doing is changing containers. You will be going from a BD stucture to a single mkv file. Video and audio will remain the same thus the only space saving will be due to only ripping the move with a single audio track and leaving behind things like extras, menus etc.
3. A mkv file quality is strictly based on whether a video and audio is re-encoded to a lower bit-rate. It has nothing to do with being on a hard disk or a dvd disk. Keep in mind that if you rip straight to mkv without doing any type of re-encoding you will be preserving the quality but file size will be between 20 to 35 GB per movie so they won't fit on a dvd disk.
4. Re-encoding so save file space is a very lenghty process that takes separate software like handbrake. You will be sacrificing quality for the sake of smaller file sizes.

Ripping, playback and re-encoding are separate events that require different kinds of software. How you do things will depend on what your ultimate goal is. You need to first decide what end results you want and then work backwards to get there.

In my opinion, a non re-encoded mkv is the best option due to preserving the original video and audio quality and universal compatability (just about every player now days can play mkv files). The primary drawback is file size but hard drives are fairly cheap these days.
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post #13 of 21 Old 07-19-2012, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor View Post

1. If you intend on ripping to mkv then you don't need BD playback software like powerDVD.yes this is the plan to insert a BD disc. into BD player then use MakeMKV to rip to HDD.
?w/ a process like this there is no need to watch the BD (this is why there is Powerdvd for folks that want to watch the BD in BD form correct).

so I can use any OEM BD player even if it has no SW included and do rips?

.
Ripping, playback and re-encoding are separate events that require different kinds of software. How you do things will depend on what your ultimate goal is. You need to first decide what end results you want and then work backwards to get there.

excellent explaination starting to see the light better.
In my opinion, a non re-encoded mkv is the best option due to preserving the original video and audio quality and universal compatability (just about every player now days can play mkv files). The primary drawback is file size but hard drives are fairly cheap these days.
I'm anixious to get started w/ BD rips, then try out handbrake. ?will handbrake reduce a large MKV file small enought to fit on a regular DVD? if yes on a % how much playback quaility is lost?

How doe's this look for a BD player? I'm assumming any dual type of CPU can operate this drive.
http://www.sony-optiarc.eu/products/archive/bluraydrivesnotebooks/bc5500s.html

Thanks STB

 

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post #14 of 21 Old 07-19-2012, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

I'm anixious to get started w/ BD rips, then try out handbrake. ?will handbrake reduce a large MKV file small enought to fit on a regular DVD? if yes on a % how much playback quaility is lost?
How doe's this look for a BD player? I'm assumming any dual type of CPU can operate this drive.
http://www.sony-optiarc.eu/products/archive/bluraydrivesnotebooks/bc5500s.html
Thanks STB

By regular DVD, I assume you're referring to a single layer disc which will result in an incredible amount of loss in video and audio if you're viewing the movie on a big screen tv. Why compress at all when hard drive space is so cheap?

The speed of ripping a disc depends mostly on the read speed of the BD drive, not the speed of the cpu or hard disc. With that laptop drive, it's probably going to rip at a max of 2x with 50 GB BDs.
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post #15 of 21 Old 07-19-2012, 01:04 PM
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I have got to ask, why are you targeting a regular DVD size? A "regular DVD" (single layer) can only hold about 4.3GB of data. A typical Blu-Ray movie averages between 20GB to 35GB with some much higher (Lord of the rings EE is about 70GB). So you want to shrink a 30GBs movie down to around 4GB. You do the math, that is a significant drop in the ammount of pixels that makeup each frame of the movie. While quality is subjective, I can tell you that to me that is a signifcant quality loss.

PowerDVD is strictly for watching the content of disks. It is not needed to rip or watch ripped movies. To rip BD disks all you need is a BD drive and the rippining software like makemkv or DVDFab etc. The one in the link should work fine. Keep in mind that ripping speed can vary between different BD drives and can take upwards of two hours to rip a movie depending on the size. Ripping basically means removing the copy protection and copying the contents from the disc to a hard drive where it can be either watched or further processed (i.e. re-encoded to a smaller file). When ripping you have several options on what to choose. You can rip to ISO, this rips the entire disc so you end up a a single file which contains everything except for the copy protection. You must mount the .iso image in a virtual drive and the the content will look like the physical disc. You can rip to BD structure, this will save the files and folders just like they are on the disc but no mounting is required. You must use a BD player to play the contents. The last option is to rip straight to .mkv and you end up with just the movie.

Ripping software like makemkv actually combine two steps. They remove the copy protection and convert (called re-muxing) the main movie into a .mkv container. No re-encoding is done so file size will be big. Software like Handbrake does NOT remove copy protection so you must either use something like AnyDVD in the background which removes the copy protection as the disc is being read by handbrake during the re-encoding process or you must first do the ripping and then use handbrake to re-encode. Be aware that re-encoding will take lot's of time. Depending on the power of your computer but you are still looking at 10-12 hours per movie.
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post #16 of 21 Old 07-21-2012, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The speed of ripping a disc depends mostly on the read speed of the BD drive, not the speed of the cpu or hard disc. With that laptop drive, it's probably going to rip at a max of 2x with 50 GB BDs.[/quote]think I'll reconcider my initial plan of a USB type BD reader for a faster more than 2-4X read rate.

how long doe's it take to rip a 2 hour show w/ a 2-4X BD reader? same ? for you'r 8X reader or higher rated reader?

Thanks STB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor View Post

I have got to ask, why are you targeting a regular DVD size? A "regular DVD" (single layer) can only hold about 4.3GB of data. A typical Blu-Ray movie averages between 20GB to 35GB with some much higher (Lord of the rings EE is about 70GB). So you want to shrink a 30GBs movie down to around 4GB. You do the math, that is a significant drop in the ammount of pixels that makeup each frame of the movie. While quality is subjective, I can tell you that to me that is a signifcant quality loss.
PowerDVD is strictly for watching the content of disks. It is not needed to rip or watch ripped movies. To rip BD disks all you need is a BD drive and the rippining software like makemkv or DVDFab etc. The one in the link should work fine. Keep in mind that ripping speed can vary between different BD drives and can take upwards of two hours to rip a movie depending on the size. Ripping basically means removing the copy protection and copying the contents from the disc to a hard drive where it can be either watched or further processed (i.e. re-encoded to a smaller file). When ripping you have several options on what to choose. You can rip to ISO, this rips the entire disc so you end up a a single file which contains everything except for the copy protection. You must mount the .iso image in a virtual drive and the the content will look like the physical disc. You can rip to BD structure, this will save the files and folders just like they are on the disc but no mounting is required. You must use a BD player to play the contents. The last option is to rip straight to .mkv and you end up with just the movie.
Ripping software like makemkv actually combine two steps. They remove the copy protection and convert (called re-muxing) the main movie into a .mkv container. No re-encoding is done so file size will be big. Software like Handbrake does NOT remove copy protection so you must either use something like AnyDVD in the background which removes the copy protection as the disc is being read by handbrake during the re-encoding process or you must first do the ripping and then use handbrake to re-encode. Be aware that re-encoding will take lot's of time. Depending on the power of your computer but you are still looking at 10-12 hours per movie.
the ? reguarding MKV files copied to a DVD was curiousitiy I have recently found out that I can't even copy a 1.1/2 hour WTV file to a DVD.
Sounds like HDD is the way.
Now I would like to pick a decent BD reader can you recommend a perferred BD player?

What would be the sensiable way of having a BD player USB would be the easiest also the slowest.

1.dissassemble my PC remove the regular DVD burner and swap in a BD and is it this simply just swap the SATA and power connections from DVD to BD drive?

2.or have both regular DVD and BD in same case. I'm starting to think the DVD burner is'nt much use, since I can't even copy a 1 1/2 hour show to DVD.

Thanks STB

 

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post #17 of 21 Old 07-21-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

The speed of ripping a disc depends mostly on the read speed of the BD drive, not the speed of the cpu or hard disc. With that laptop drive, it's probably going to rip at a max of 2x with 50 GB BDs. think I'll reconcider my initial plan of a USB type BD reader for a faster more than 2-4X read rate.
how long doe's it take to rip a 2 hour show w/ a 2-4X BD reader? same ? for you'r 8X reader or higher rated reader?
Thanks STB
the ? reguarding MKV files copied to a DVD was curiousitiy I have recently found out that I can't even copy a 1.1/2 hour WTV file to a DVD.
Sounds like HDD is the way.
Now I would like to pick a decent BD reader can you recommend a perferred BD player?
What would be the sensiable way of having a BD player USB would be the easiest also the slowest.
1.dissassemble my PC remove the regular DVD burner and swap in a BD and is it this simply just swap the SATA and power connections from DVD to BD drive?
2.or have both regular DVD and BD in same case. I'm starting to think the DVD burner is'nt much use, since I can't even copy a 1 1/2 hour show to DVD.
Thanks STB

If you get a 8x read speed player like this one it can rip a two hour movie in about 40 minutes. Also this is a BD and DVD burner so you don't need a separate DVD burner. Just replace your current DVD burner. Unplug the power and sata connectors on the old one and plug them in the replacement, that is all.
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post #18 of 21 Old 07-22-2012, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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1.How is possiable to burn nine hours of High-Definition video on a write-once BD-R disc or a rewritable BD-RE disc?

2. and doe's this include WTV and MKV files? or what type of HD video files is Liton referring to? I'm thinking the MKV files are mearsured in size rather than time so this nine hour would'nt apply to MKVs.


3.also these burnt BD-R discs will they playback on differnt BD players?

4.I'm assumming the slowest burn time is used kindof like extended long play? doe's this type of recording effect the quaility?

5.I'm not farmiaril w/ LITE-ON
are they known for good customer service?
usalley a co. w/out a 800 surport phone # indicates lower service.

just to clairify writer, burner or (copy to) are the same?
Player and reader are the same?
Thanks STB

 

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post #19 of 21 Old 07-22-2012, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

1.How is possiable to burn nine hours of High-Definition video on a write-once BD-R disc or a rewritable BD-RE disc?
2. and doe's this include WTV and MKV files? or what type of HD video files is Liton referring to? I'm thinking the MKV files are mearsured in size rather than time so this nine hour would'nt apply to MKVs.
3.also these burnt BD-R discs will they playback on differnt BD players?
4.I'm assumming the slowest burn time is used kindof like extended long play? doe's this type of recording effect the quaility?
5.I'm not farmiaril w/ LITE-ON
are they known for good customer service?
usalley a co. w/out a 800 surport phone # indicates lower service.
just to clairify writer, burner or (copy to) are the same?
Player and reader are the same?
Thanks STB

1. I believe that anything capable of 720p is defined as high-definition. By having non-HD audio and 720p video, its possible to get 9 hours onto a double-layer 50 GB blank.

2. The description probably refers to files in an avchd format which is is the standard for BDs.

3. The BD-r discs will playback in many players if it is burned in an avchd format. Not all players are happy with burned discs but this is very rare these days.

4. The burn time has nothing to do with playing time. BDs play back at 1x, there is not other playback speed (i.e. there is no such thing as variable playback speed). Shorter movies just use up less space.

5. Lite-on is an optical drive manufacturer that has been around for years. I have an old 2x Lite-on burner and an LG 8x BD-reader. Both have been problem-free. Can't comment on either company's customer service since I rarely, if ever, contact customer service unless it is to return a defective product.

The term writer and burner are interchangeable and the same thing. Not sure what you mean by "copy to".

The term player could refer to hardware or software. For hardware, player and burner are interchangeable.
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-22-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevethebrain View Post

1.How is possiable to burn nine hours of High-Definition video on a write-once BD-R disc or a rewritable BD-RE disc?
2. and doe's this include WTV and MKV files? or what type of HD video files is Liton referring to? I'm thinking the MKV files are mearsured in size rather than time so this nine hour would'nt apply to MKVs.
3.also these burnt BD-R discs will they playback on differnt BD players?
4.I'm assumming the slowest burn time is used kindof like extended long play? doe's this type of recording effect the quaility?
5.I'm not farmiaril w/ LITE-ON
are they known for good customer service?
usalley a co. w/out a 800 surport phone # indicates lower service.
just to clairify writer, burner or (copy to) are the same?
Player and reader are the same?
Thanks STB

Audit13 has already answered these questions but I will try to expand a little bit.

1. "High-definition" or HDTV primarily takes into account the number of lines that make up the picture 720p, 1080i and 1080p are all considered "high-definition" for comparison, 480i is considered "standard definition" and it has been around since the inception of TV back in the 30s. There is also 480p which is called Enhanced Definition or EDTV. There are other factors like aspect ratio 16x9 for high-def vs 4x3 for standard def. What it DOESN'T take into account is bit-rate which is the main determining factor of quality and thus file-size. I can take a 2-hr 720p video and encode it with a low bit-rate like 4MBits/Sec and the file size would be less 5GB at the same time I can take the same 2-hr movie 1080p movie and encode it a very high bit-rate like 20MBits/s and the file size would be around 20GB. Both would be considered "high-def" but the 1080p movie would be of much higher quality. So if I encode at 720p resolution and 4MBits/s I can easily fit 9 hours of video on a BD disc.

2. WTV is a container developed by Microsoft and only used by Media Center. Here in the US it contains MPEG2 encoded files from cable TV. MPEG2 is not a very efficient encoder especially when compared to h264 which is much more efficient meaning quality is retained much more at lower bit rates. Do some reading about mpeg2 vs h264 encoded files.

3. What determines whether a BD disc will play in a BD player is how the files are written/burned onto the disc. Unless specifically stated that the BD player supports mkv files, every BD player expect the discs to be in the BD structure made up of specific folders and specific files (aka AVCHD). Kind like a DVD player expects to see DVD structure which is made up of a VIDEO_TS folder containing VOB files which are nothing more than MPEG2 encoded files but guess what, if you write/burn a MPEG2 file onto a DVD and stick it in a DVD player, it won't play because it is not in the correct structure.

4. Burning times have nothing to do with quality. Burning or writing to a disc is just transferring the digital data from your hard drive to the disc. The quality was pre-determined when the video file was encoded. You are thinking in analog and not digital. Once the video file is created the quality is set. Where you play it from be it from a hard drive or a dvd disc or a BD disc makes absolutely no difference. It's like taking a photograph with a digital camera. The quality is determined when the picture is taken by how you set the camera. It doesn't make any difference where you store that digital photo once it is taken. You can put it on hard drive or a flash drive or a dvd disc or any other medium you can think of. When you view that picture, it will look the same.

5. Lite-on is a very well respected manufacturer for BD/DVD burners/writers. I have had several of their products and I have never had to call them so I can't speak for their support. Usually with these types of devices it will either work or it will fail very quickly in which case you just return it from the place where you purchased it for a replacement.

Burners is just another term for a writer. It comes from the action the device uses (a laser) to burn or etch a very small pit to signify a bit onto the surface of the disc.


Don't take this the wrong way but this is a fairly advanced topic and based on your questions you lack the basic knowledge of how digital video and audio is encoded and how different encoding, containers, and file structure affects what you do. Unless you spend some time reading and become more knowledgeable about these concepts you will find it very frustrating.
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post #21 of 21 Old 07-22-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Zagor View Post

Unless you spend some time reading and become more knowledgeable about these concepts you will find it very frustrating.

Frustrating is putting it mildly. I went through a very steep learning curve before figuring out how things worked. I would say it took me months of trial and error, along with lots of forum searches.

I've used TSMuxer, DVDFab, AnyDVDHD, Makemkv, Ripbot, ClownBD, Stream Extractor, etc. Lots of time spent with trial and error until I understood exactly what worked and didn't work for me.
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