Ceton card in Hyper-V? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 07-24-2012, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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So here's an interesting idea I had..

I have a gaming rig that I currently have Windows 7 on, and run 24/7 as my HTPC/Media Center.

Once Server 2012 hits RTM, I will be installing that for testing purposes in my house, and rather than have two PCs on at all times (my gaming rig and this server), I'd rather have just the one turned on and build a Hyper-V environment to help support it. So basically I'd install the Ceton card into the server (it's a beefy box, Xeon, 24GB RAM, etc), and then build a Windows 7 or 8 VM to use as my media center.

How do I go about bridging the Ceton tuners into a VM through 2012 server, I suppose is the question. I have seen guides but they all rely on the idea that you have Media Center installed already.

Any tips would be appreciated... I'm sure I can figure it out, but I don't want to have a lot of downtime because I'll miss recorded shows smile.gif

Thanks!
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post #2 of 26 Old 07-24-2012, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hercules View Post

So here's an interesting idea I had..
I have a gaming rig that I currently have Windows 7 on, and run 24/7 as my HTPC/Media Center.
Once Server 2012 hits RTM, I will be installing that for testing purposes in my house, and rather than have two PCs on at all times (my gaming rig and this server), I'd rather have just the one turned on and build a Hyper-V environment to help support it. So basically I'd install the Ceton card into the server (it's a beefy box, Xeon, 24GB RAM, etc), and then build a Windows 7 or 8 VM to use as my media center.
How do I go about bridging the Ceton tuners into a VM through 2012 server, I suppose is the question. I have seen guides but they all rely on the idea that you have Media Center installed already.
Any tips would be appreciated... I'm sure I can figure it out, but I don't want to have a lot of downtime because I'll miss recorded shows smile.gif
Thanks!

Unless you are using an extender for all viewing, this won't really work. Virtualizing the Ceton or passing it through to a VM is possible, but you'll most likely not be able to pass the HDCP check w/o passing through an HDCP capable video card (even then, it's a crapshoot if it'll work). If you're worried about downtime, or have an SO who would be upset by a couple of days worth of downtime, it's probably not a good idea, unfortunately. It took me quite awhile to get the kinks worked out with getting the Ceton running in an ESXi Win7 VM. My wife and daughter were not pleased with me.

Hyper-V will be included in the Win8 pro install, as I understand it, so you could probably use that as your media center entirely and then setup whatever other VMs you wanted.
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post #3 of 26 Old 07-24-2012, 01:02 PM - Thread Starter
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An extender *will* be used for all viewing. I never watch content on my machine, it's always offloaded to my Xboxes (I have two).
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post #4 of 26 Old 07-24-2012, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Hercules View Post

An extender *will* be used for all viewing. I never watch content on my machine, it's always offloaded to my Xboxes (I have two).

That definitely simplifies it then--same setup as I have at home, but with ESXi. Hyper-V in Server 2008 did not support PCI Passthrough at all from my understanding, so hopefully they have updated it for Server 2012. The other option, like I mentioned, would be to use regular Windows 8 as the media center and use the Hyper-V implementation on it to run whatever other VMs you want to.
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post #5 of 26 Old 07-24-2012, 05:15 PM
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I've configured this before by carving out a separate network for the InfiniTV and manually bridging it.

Quality Assurance Manager, Ceton Corporation
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post #6 of 26 Old 07-25-2012, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mcturkey View Post

Unless you are using an extender for all viewing, this won't really work. Virtualizing the Ceton or passing it through to a VM is possible, but you'll most likely not be able to pass the HDCP check w/o passing through an HDCP capable video card (even then, it's a crapshoot if it'll work). If you're worried about downtime, or have an SO who would be upset by a couple of days worth of downtime, it's probably not a good idea, unfortunately. It took me quite awhile to get the kinks worked out with getting the Ceton running in an ESXi Win7 VM. My wife and daughter were not pleased with me.
Hyper-V will be included in the Win8 pro install, as I understand it, so you could probably use that as your media center entirely and then setup whatever other VMs you wanted.

Well not realy, you need to install DCA, and all would be fine. The Ceton card would have to be installed in the Host OS, as the PCi pass through is not fully supported for tunners.

I am running 7MC in a Hyper-V VM just fine using extenders. You need the network cable card tunners, a dedicated hard drive for the recordings and I recommend a dedicated Network card. Create a Virtual Network with the network card dedicated to 7MC, it will help eliminate stuttering and the HD will help eliminate lag from buffering over a network. Missingremote has a hack for getting the DCA and playready to pass.

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post #7 of 26 Old 07-25-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Why wouldn't the PCIe passthrough work?
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post #8 of 26 Old 07-25-2012, 10:27 AM
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Hello,

I had some luck with this. But after a power outtage I had problems with my ceton showing up and working in my Win7 ESXi virual machine....

Also I had passed through an $80 NIC to help with the bandwidth as streaming to multiple clients got choppy...but it didn't help a lot over all.

I am pretty new to ESXi so maybe there was more that I could do but I chose to put it back into my main HTPC.
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post #9 of 26 Old 07-25-2012, 10:28 AM
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post #10 of 26 Old 07-26-2012, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Why wouldn't the PCIe passthrough work?

We are talking about Hyper-V - meaning MS Windows 2008 R2 or was this referenceing ESXi VMWare? Hyper-V is a MS term and in all of my testing PCI is not passed through in a Hyper-V system, only in VMWare.

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post #11 of 26 Old 07-26-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:

I mentioned this in my post.
Thanks fo rposting the link.

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post #12 of 26 Old 07-26-2012, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skybolt View Post

We are talking about Hyper-V - meaning MS Windows 2008 R2 or was this referenceing ESXi VMWare? Hyper-V is a MS term and in all of my testing PCI is not passed through in a Hyper-V system, only in VMWare.

Correct - Hyper-V 2008 does not support PCI passthrough. It may support it in Server 2012, but I have not played with that yet so I can't be sure.
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post #13 of 26 Old 02-11-2013, 01:23 PM
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Looking at going the virtualization route. Did a google search, but didn't bring anything up on Hyper-V Server 2012 supporting PCI pass through, can anyone confirm that?
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post #14 of 26 Old 02-11-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ncarty97 View Post

Looking at going the virtualization route. Did a google search, but didn't bring anything up on Hyper-V Server 2012 supporting PCI pass through, can anyone confirm that?

It doesn't look like MS is supporting any kind of pass through for PCI or USB. I did find a utility that passes USB into a Hyper-V VM, and works real well. Google "USB Redirector", it redirects through TCP. I have SageTv in a Hyper-V VM working with this right now, passing in the HD-PVR. It is usng component video and SP/DIF capture just fine. No help with PCI though, sorry. Haven't tried it with 7MC yet either.

I currently have 7MC in a VM, using the prime as a capture source, and that works great. I have been using it for ~7 months now without an issue. 360's for clients though smile.gif

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post #15 of 26 Old 02-11-2013, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ncarty97 View Post

Looking at going the virtualization route. Did a google search, but didn't bring anything up on Hyper-V Server 2012 supporting PCI pass through, can anyone confirm that?

If you already have a Ceton InfiniTV then be advised that Hyper-V will not pass-through PCI cards. If you haven't bought a cable card tuner I would suggest getting the Silicon Dust HDHomerun since its network-based and will work with any VM platform just fine.

By the way, VMWare, Xen, and KVM all support PCI passthrough to various extents. If you are not committed to using Hyper-V then one of the other platforms will work for your needs most likely.
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post #16 of 26 Old 02-11-2013, 06:04 PM
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You will also have an issue with the virtual network switch and flow control with xboxes.
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post #17 of 26 Old 02-11-2013, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

If you already have a Ceton InfiniTV then be advised that Hyper-V will not pass-through PCI cards. If you haven't bought a cable card tuner I would suggest getting the Silicon Dust HDHomerun since its network-based and will work with any VM platform just fine.

By the way, VMWare, Xen, and KVM all support PCI passthrough to various extents. If you are not committed to using Hyper-V then one of the other platforms will work for your needs most likely.

I'm not committed one way or another, someone just suggested Hyper-V so I was looking into it. The Win8 Console for it seems nice, but not required. I do already have an InfiniTV4, but I am not 100% against moving to a Prime to make things work.

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Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

You will also have an issue with the virtual network switch and flow control with xboxes.

Does that issue present with ESXi as well? I've read people using that here.
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post #18 of 26 Old 02-11-2013, 08:24 PM
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ESXi (eSexy wink.gif) seems to be most popular hypervisor for media implementations. I say go with that.
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post #19 of 26 Old 02-11-2013, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncarty97 View Post

I'm not committed one way or another, someone just suggested Hyper-V so I was looking into it. The Win8 Console for it seems nice, but not required. I do already have an InfiniTV4, but I am not 100% against moving to a Prime to make things work.

Hyper-V is really great if you are only virtualizing microsoft OSes.... or don't need advanced virtualization features.

Getting passthrough to work on VMWare requires very specific hardware, and not all devices will passthrough. Even if it does work you could get PSODs (Pink Screen Of Death)... because VMWare only officially support a few NICs and HBAs as passing-through.

Quote:
Does that issue present with ESXi as well? I've read people using that here.

I have an Xbox 360 and an older Logitech extender both working from a pretty minimal Windows 7 VM running on VMWare. The VMWare box is only running a single core Sempron (unlocked to dual core) and it works pretty well for serving those two extenders in addition to running 4 other VMs.

(The Sempron box is a temporary back-end, but it works so well, it's kind of criminal to take it down.)
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post #20 of 26 Old 02-12-2013, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Hyper-V is really great if you are only virtualizing microsoft OSes.... or don't need advanced virtualization features.

Getting passthrough to work on VMWare requires very specific hardware, and not all devices will passthrough. Even if it does work you could get PSODs (Pink Screen Of Death)... because VMWare only officially support a few NICs and HBAs as passing-through.
I have an Xbox 360 and an older Logitech extender both working from a pretty minimal Windows 7 VM running on VMWare. The VMWare box is only running a single core Sempron (unlocked to dual core) and it works pretty well for serving those two extenders in addition to running 4 other VMs.

(The Sempron box is a temporary back-end, but it works so well, it's kind of criminal to take it down.)

I ran a virtualized HTPC for awhile under ESXi 5.0u1 with two Xbox 360 extenders. 5.1 broke PCI passthrough, so while the Ceton was never a supported device, it worked fine until 5.1. If you're going to go the route of a Ceton under ESXi, stick to 5.0.
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post #21 of 26 Old 02-12-2013, 05:57 AM
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I'd heard that, thanks. Is there anything in particular that I would want 5.1 over 5.0 for?

My plan (so far) is to have 2, possible three VM's running:

1) WHS2011
2) Some OS running nothing but Plex Media Server
3) Potentially the HTPC with some CableCard to serve as the 'hub' for three extenders (though it is doubtful more than two will ever be used at the same time).

I have some curiosity for trying out Linux (like Ubuntu or something) so I might add another VM now and then to try that out, but probably nothing running long term there. Only other thing I could see myself setting up would be possible a web host. Right now I serve up a photo album and contact manager using the WHS2011. I've had no compelling reason to split those off (especially since I am using the free homeserver.com address to get access to it outside my lan), but maybe at some point I will.
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post #22 of 26 Old 02-12-2013, 08:44 AM
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5.1 has some common non-Intel NIC drivers baked in, but I've seen nothing functionally different between the two.

I highly suggest you use good Intel NICs for VMWare... the Intel CT desktop series NICs are cheap and work well.
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post #23 of 26 Old 02-12-2013, 08:57 AM
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Thanks!
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post #24 of 26 Old 04-20-2013, 11:14 AM
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I want to install ceton on a 7MC and install 2 or 3 VM's running in the background as 7MC extenders. I plan on installing splashtop all each 7MC that way I can login and watch TV from 4 different devices at the same time. Any advice on the best method for this?
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post #25 of 26 Old 04-20-2013, 02:15 PM
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There is no way to have 7MC extenders as VM or any PC. MC Extender requires dedicated extender hardware like Xbox or Ceton Echo.
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post #26 of 26 Old 04-20-2013, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

There is no way to have 7MC extenders as VM or any PC. MC Extender requires dedicated extender hardware like Xbox or Ceton Echo.

Oh NOT extenders but setup as network tuners. Ceton allows other 7MC to be used at network tuners.
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