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post #301 of 323 Old 09-12-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Just like I said (and you quoted it) ^ rolleyes.gif

No one cares if I crushed three posts into one, or removed quotes I had. I did it to make it flow better, not plagiarize intentionally. I am not in school being graded on this stuff. You need to grow up. I am on my iphone and it's hard enough to copy and paste and edit already. If you take offense to it then fine so be it. But you just proved my point again- your more interested in proving me wrong (at anything) than the topic at hand or having any intelligent discussion on the actual subject. That's a lot more annoying IMO.

I care.

I am interested in an intelligent accurate conversation. With my corrections we are closer to that.

On your plagiarism: I posted everything today that I wrote from my gs3. It's not at all hard to copy and paste from a smartphone as you proved. Just next time be sure to cite your source (website address). It's just as easy to do as copying the material that you posted earlier today.

Honestly that's a pathetic excuse for plagiarism in a science forum. I don't even care if you plagiarize --- just don't try to pass it off as your own thought or experience. Again, this isn't the first time avs has caught you doing this.

Its takes literally two seconds to copy and paste your source even on a smartphone.
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post #302 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Correct !
Thanks for the clarification.

The difference between what RAID snobs call "Real Hardware RAID" and the type of hardware raid that they call "FAKE RAID" is that the fake raid lacks a dedicated (often proprietary and expensive) RAID controller and instead has a BIOS and interface that relies on your CPU and PC hardware to do the processing.

The major advantage of Fake-RAID is simply cost. Intel supports it with Intel Matrix Storage, and AMD has south bridge support too. For most users, especially if using a decent server chip set (or most non-budget conscious consumer motherboards), this is a “free” feature. For RAID 0 and RAID 1, especially using a south bridge/ PCH implementation, Fake-RAID can have solid performance due to high bandwidth, low latency interfaces to the CPU. Another advantage of Fake-RAID is that many implementations can be used by multiple operating systems. For example, one can format a FAT32 volume based on an ICH10R and then change host system operating systems to Linux and utilize the volume. Under software RAID scenarios, such as using ZFS volumes directly by Windows or Linux systems, is at minimum difficult but in most cases impossible.

Two caveats here are that most Fake-RAID solutions, are limited to at most RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 10, RAID 5, and RAID 50. With modern 2Tb and 3TB drives, double parity protection schemes such as RAID 6 become both practical and arguably necessary over single parity RAID 4 and RAID 5 implementations.

If you are are using your hardware and CPU to do the processing then it's "fake RAID" as compared to a dedicated RAID controller card that has it's own processor. The amount of processing power that is needed do do the RAID calculations is very negligible in comparison to today's powerful CPU's. This "fake RAID" has existed for many generations of chipsets now and CPU are so advanced you would never notice or feel any performance degradation of your system by using "FAKE RAID" as compared to real RAID.

Technically, FAKE raid is a cheap version of hardware raid that allows your existing hardware to do the raid controller processing and does not require an expensive proprietary dedicated RAID controller.

My main point I was making for simplicity was that it's a cheap version of hardware RAID and it's not software RAID.

I didnt know you were the guy from the serve the home website. Rest of post edited.............

Reason: Assassin cleared this up in the very next post.....

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post #303 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Just like I said (and you quoted it) ^ rolleyes.gif

No one cares if I crushed three posts into one, or removed quotes I had. I did it to make it flow better, not plagiarize intentionally. I am not in school being graded on this stuff. You need to grow up. I am on my iphone and it's hard enough to copy and paste and edit already. If you take offense to it then fine so be it. But you just proved my point again- your more interested in proving me wrong (at anything) than the topic at hand or having any intelligent discussion on the actual subject. That's a lot more annoying IMO.

Actually, that isnt true at all.
AVSforum cares as its spelled out clearly in their TOS the rules about posting others work and trying to pass it off as your own.

I would think many of the posters care also.
I know if I was here looking for advice (and I have been many times) I would be concerned if I found out the person giving me the advice was plagerizing their posts from others work. It would seriously worry me as to their credibility and if I should be following or trusting their advice.
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post #304 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 08:43 AM
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Very well I edited my post :

Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

"Fake RAID" does not sound a good term in that it's still a RAID = "redundant array" of IDs however it is implemented. Hardware RAID has a dedicated processor / memory for parity calculation. If the host (= CPU) does this, it is a fake hardware RAID (apart from a pure software RAID). Motherboard RAID and cheaper RAID cards belong to this. I looked at wiki and found a good term: Firmware/driver-based RAID

Correct !
Thanks for the clarification.

The difference between what RAID snobs call "Real Hardware RAID" and the type of hardware raid that they call "FAKE RAID" is that the fake raid lacks a dedicated (often proprietary and expensive) RAID controller and instead has a BIOS and interface that relies on your CPU and PC hardware to do the processing.
Quote:
The major advantage of Fake-RAID is simply cost. Intel supports it with Intel Matrix Storage, and AMD has south bridge support too. For most users, especially if using a decent server chip set (or most non-budget conscious consumer motherboards), this is a “free” feature. For RAID 0 and RAID 1, especially using a south bridge/ PCH implementation, Fake-RAID can have solid performance due to high bandwidth, low latency interfaces to the CPU. Another advantage of Fake-RAID is that many implementations can be used by multiple operating systems. For example, one can format a FAT32 volume based on an ICH10R and then change host system operating systems to Linux and utilize the volume. Under software RAID scenarios, such as using ZFS volumes directly by Windows or Linux systems, is at minimum difficult but in most cases impossible.

Two caveats here are that most Fake-RAID solutions, are limited to at most RAID 0, RAID 1, RAID 10, RAID 5, and RAID 50. With modern 2Tb and 3TB drives, double parity protection schemes such as RAID 6 become both practical and arguably necessary over single parity RAID 4 and RAID 5 implementations.

If you are are using your hardware and CPU to do the processing then it's "fake RAID" as compared to a dedicated RAID controller card that has it's own processor. The amount of processing power that is needed do do the RAID calculations is very negligible in comparison to today's powerful CPU's. This "fake RAID" has existed for many generations of chipsets now and CPU are so advanced you would never notice or feel any performance degradation of your system by using "FAKE RAID" as compared to real RAID.

Technically, FAKE raid is a cheap version of hardware raid that allows your existing hardware to do the raid controller processing and does not require an expensive proprietary dedicated RAID controller.

My main point I was making for simplicity was that it's a cheap version of hardware RAID and it's not software RAID.

-

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post #305 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 08:47 AM
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And back to the point - I still don't see how you can call whatever fake RAID is.. Software RAID.

Suggesting its software RAID, its like software RAID, or its the same as software RAID is wrong. I guess I need to ask if that is being done to oppose me on an individual personal level or if anyone actually believes or wants to argue they are the same thing, or even like each other from a user perspective. ?

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post #306 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Actually, that isnt true at all.
AVSforum cares as its spelled out clearly in their TOS the rules about posting others work and trying to pass it off as your own.

I would think many of the posters care also.
I know if I was here looking for advice (and I have been many times) I would be concerned if I found out the person giving me the advice was plagerizing their posts from others work. It would seriously worry me as to their credibility and if I should be following or trusting their advice.

Thanks. Glad someone else spoke up. I agree with you 100% (which was why I brought it to attention).

I agree that we should move on. Let the accused party learn from this and not do it again.
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post #307 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

And back to the point - I still don't see how you can call whatever fake RAID is.. Software RAID.

Nobody is saying fake raid is the same as software raid. Fake raid just far more similar to software raid than it is to hardware raid. It's also sufficiently different from either that it needs its own category.

Hardware raid is not just a pricier version of fake raid. Think of it like a whole separate NAS that connects directly to the bus and fits inside the chassis. It has its own separate cpu/ram/os. It has its own flash drive or battery (or both) so it can preserve state even if the host machine is shut down or has crashed. You can yank a controller out of one running machine and move it to another running machine without powering down either machine or the array. BT;DT. On some controllers, you can even remotely talk to them without going through the host machine. It's a totally different animal.
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post #308 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricN View Post

Nobody is saying fake raid is the same as software raid. Fake raid just far more similar to software raid than it is to hardware raid. It's also sufficiently different from either that it needs its own category.

Hardware raid is not just a pricier version of fake raid. Think of it like a whole separate NAS that connects directly to the bus and fits inside the chassis. It has its own separate cpu/ram/os. It has its own flash drive or battery (or both) so it can preserve state even if the host machine is shut down or has crashed. You can yank a controller out of one running machine and move it to another running machine without powering down either machine or the array. BT;DT. On some controllers, you can even remotely talk to them without going through the host machine. It's a totally different animal.

I think he thought we were making up Fake Raid on our own. The reality is that it already exists and we did nothing of the sort. We didn't make it up or coin the term --- its already there and has been for a long time.

And as you say its completely relevant that it has its own category and to say it doesn't or minimize the difference is being disingenuous. People considering these options really need to know the facts, limitations, strengths, etc when making a decision on what to use.
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post #309 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricN View Post

Nobody is saying fake raid is the same as software raid. Fake raid just far more similar to software raid than it is to hardware raid. It's also sufficiently different from either that it needs its own category.

Hardware raid is not just a pricier version of fake raid. Think of it like a whole separate NAS that connects directly to the bus and fits inside the chassis. It has its own separate cpu/ram/os. It has its own flash drive or battery (or both) so it can preserve state even if the host machine is shut down or has crashed. You can yank a controller out of one running machine and move it to another running machine without powering down either machine or the array. BT;DT. On some controllers, you can even remotely talk to them without going through the host machine. It's a totally different animal.

Well said, EricN.
Can you (or somebody else) please list several names/ models of popular, reliable hardwar raid cards that I can self-educate or buy if I can stand?
Thank you.
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post #310 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 11:54 AM
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Someone made it up though! Why not you? or me for that matter.

Not sure whats more interesting, the topic or the squabbling.

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post #311 of 323 Old 09-13-2013, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpee View Post


Can you (or somebody else) please list several names/ models of popular, reliable hardwar raid cards that I can self-educate or buy if I can stand?
Thank you.

For example,

LSI MegaRAID SAS 9271-4i
LSI MegaRAID SAS 9271-8i

They have a 800MHz IBM PowerPC processor.
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post #312 of 323 Old 09-16-2013, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpee View Post

Well said, EricN.
Can you (or somebody else) please list several names/ models of popular, reliable hardwar raid cards that I can self-educate or buy if I can stand?
Thank you.

What is your budget and what kind or raid do you want to run ? What HDD's and hardware ?

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post #313 of 323 Old 09-16-2013, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

For example,

LSI MegaRAID SAS 9271-4i
LSI MegaRAID SAS 9271-8i

They have a 800MHz IBM PowerPC processor.

Thanks, but sorry, damn I couldn't figure out which ones are true hardware RAID cards which ones are FAKE raid cards. We base on price, cache memory, or ... else?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=LSI+card&N=-1&isNodeId=1

Help!
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post #314 of 323 Old 09-16-2013, 06:48 PM
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I would first check the specs and see if there is mentioned a processor name (e.g. Intel IOP348, IBM PowerPC).
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post #315 of 323 Old 11-05-2013, 05:55 AM
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EricN, I see your point here. So what would you recommend as a strategy for the movies part of a media collection of say 8-10 TB against 1) disk failure and 2) backup.

Cybrsage, you have chosen to go with snapraid. How is your setup and why have you chosen the setup you have?

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post #316 of 323 Old 11-05-2013, 06:07 AM
 
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I am bouncing back and forth between snapraid and disparity. I liked disparity a lot, but each time I did a check on the parity it showed me lots of errors. OK, it was only twice, but that is enough to make me worry. I moved to snapraid to see if it would have the same issues.

Apparently, I have a hardware issue I have to try and track down. When running the check on snapraid, my PC reboots with a 124 code - which means a hardware issue caused the reboot. I ran MEMTEST and no issues found...am now looking for a good hardware testing software.

EDIT: The problem appeared rather quickly (about an hour) in snapraid 5.0 beta - but so far it has not appeared in snapraid 4.4 after 4 hours of running a parity check. I will know for sure in another 5 hours if it ran successfully.

EDIT EDIT: SnapRaid 4.4 successfully completed the check of my 11 TB of data without rebooting. I am going to download SnapRaid 5.0 again and give it a test.
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post #317 of 323 Old 11-07-2013, 10:12 AM
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I hope you get it fixed. How do you handle the issue that it is only a snapshot, and if you change the contents of the drives during the day, the parity will not work, no?

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post #318 of 323 Old 11-07-2013, 05:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroinx View Post

I hope you get it fixed. How do you handle the issue that it is only a snapshot, and if you change the contents of the drives during the day, the parity will not work, no?

It protects my storage drives. They only change when I rip a movie to them, so I know exactly when they will change. When I change the contents of a drive, I just run the parity recalculation afterwards.
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post #319 of 323 Old 11-08-2013, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

It protects my storage drives. They only change when I rip a movie to them, so I know exactly when they will change. When I change the contents of a drive, I just run the parity recalculation afterwards.

I guess that if you plan after it, and keep changing contents such as imagesbyname on a separate disk, then it is not a big deal. I wonder if the MB3 makes changes now and again to movie folders and data. That could screw things up and trash the plan.

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post #320 of 323 Old 11-08-2013, 06:04 AM
 
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I manually control the downloading of metadata and images. I have too many movies that the automated systems decide are something other than what they are and overwrite that movie's info with junk and replace the carefully selected images with incorrect ones. I have movies that only existed on VHS that I digitized, for example. In my opinion, just say no to an automated system deciding things for you. smile.gif My images, etc, only change when I tell them to.
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post #321 of 323 Old 11-08-2013, 11:54 AM
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And you can set filters to not include certain types of files in snapraid. I filter out the metadata with these lines:
Code:
exclude metadata/
exclude backdrop*.jpg
exclude banner.jpg
exclude folder.jpg
exclude series.xml
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post #322 of 323 Old 11-14-2013, 03:57 AM
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If you change a file, then lose that drive, then yes- you will lose changes in that file. But the rest is up to date.
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post #323 of 323 Old 05-11-2014, 12:20 PM
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I have been using unRAID for 4 years now, came from RAID 5 (6) 1.5TB Seagate 7200.11 (motherboard - XFX - which died 3 months later - thank God I moved out of hw raid) After moving to unRAID I upgraded to 2TB drives and added more drives.

I have never used FlexRaid (or SnapRaid) so I can't comment on those, but as far as unRAID goes, I have had 0 problems, and I actually host a lot of services on my unRAID box. I have Plex, AirVideo, Twonky, Subsonic, Sick Beard (tv shows search), CouchPotato (movies search), Headphones (msuic search), Transmission (torrents dl), SABnzbd (newsgroup dl), FTP, SSH, heyu & x10commander (X10 home automation), HP laser printer shared and probably other services I forgot to mention.

My current setup:
System: ASRock - 880GM-LE
CPU: AMD PhenomTM II X4 905e - 2.5 GHz
Cache: 512 kB
Memory: 8704 MB - 667 MHz
Network: 1000Mb/s - Full Duplex
Drives: (12) 2TB drives (WDEARX) DATA & parity drives, and (1) 500GB drive (WD5003ABYX) cache drive.

I like unRAID for many reasons, I can host all the services I need, it doesn't stripe my data, I like the fact that it boots off of a USB stick - which I have 2 exact copies and I backup every month or so (and even if I lost both the working USB and the backup one, I can still read my data using reiserFS), and all the drives except the cache (where I host all the services - reason why I chose enterprise drive) drive go to sleep when not in use, extending the life of the drives and energy efficient.

You're setting up a server, not a workstation, correct?
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