New IvyBridge SFF HTPC - PC-Q05 + i3-3225 [WIP] - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 09-13-2012, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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This will be a record of my first attempt at building a HTPC that is small form factor, low power, low noise but with video processing capabilities to rival was is generally only achieved with larger builds. Follow me on this journey that will cover from Day 1 hardware build through final software installation and configuration.

Goal:
What I will use this build for is my primary 10-foot experience front end. Its job will be to playback/stream media off a shared storage appliance in the equipment closet. While I'm a big fan of HTPCs, I feel a keyboard/mouse/desktop has no place in the living room. If this were 'my' system, I wouldnt mind. However I want to ensure a guest of mine can pickup the remote and easily understand how to use the system.

Motherboard - Intel DQ77KB:
I chose this board primarily for its Thin Mini-ITX form factor, IvyBridge support. 2x SATA 6Gb/s ports + mSATA. 2x Intel GbE. On board DC-DC PSU

CPU/GPU - Intel i3-3225:
This CPU was chosen because it stays under my 65W thermal envelope limit(55W for this particular CPU), and my requirement for Intel's fastest available on-die GPU - HD 4000.

RAM - Samsung 30nm Low Voltage DDR3:
Samsung Green memory was chosen for its factory low voltage and relatively low latency specs. Drive them at 1.5v instead of the stock 1.35v and pushing them past factory specs is an easy task. Also the black PCB and low-profile looks neat.

SDD - Crucial M4 mSATA SSD:
An SSD was a requirement for this build. Given the motherboard provides a mPCI-E slot that support mSATA, I jumped at the opportunity to lower the power consumption/requirement for the system while at the same time help with cable management inside the chassis. Sadly, while this SSD model supports a 6Gb/s interface, the motherboard electrically only supports a 3Gb/s link on the mPCI-E port. A tradeoff I ultimately decided was acceptable. A future upgrade/tweak can be to use a full size 2.5" SSD on one of the two motherboard provided 6Gb/s ports to allow an increase in disk I/O.

Chassis - Lian-Li PC-Q05 Thin mini-ITX Chassis:
This is one of, literally, only a handful of purpose built thin mini-itx chassis available at this time. Comprised entirely of black anodized aluminum and standing under 4.5cm, it was easily my first choice. My second choice went to Akasa and their Euler chassis. Also, its minimalist aesthetics will look great with decor in the living area, appearing to be more a high-end device than a tacky box riddled with blue LED's, a trend that so many current CE devices unfortunately seem to follow.

I/O panel profile:


RAM/SSD:


Assembled motherboard along with BluRay box for size perspective:


Empty chassis, with included accessories:


Assembled chassis, front and rear:


The build:
Assembling the motherboard*/cpu/ram/ssd was straightforward.

*Note: Because of the design of the Intel HTS1155LP thermal solution; the unit must be installed on the motherboard before the board is installed into the chassis. This is because the heatsink uses a backplate that sits underneath the motherboard.

I initially struggled to get the board sit flush with the front panel and motherboard mounting holes to align with the motherboard standoffs because of these 2 small screws off to the side of the heatsink fins. They were small and I overlooked them. Once I noticed and corrected the placement the board fell right into place.


I'm a long time Lian-Li fan for their build quality and precision machining. I have to say with each new build I expect them to wow me even more than the last and this chassis was no exception. That said and given the fact that this chassis is clearly a 'one-off' for them I have some personal room- for-improvement comments/suggestions:
1- You can see where there is significant wasted space even in this small/compact chassis. Had the cage been positioned horizontally instead of vertically a few inches could have been shaved along the Y-axis dimension of the chassis.
2- The ability to place the fan in either a push or pull configuration is appreciated. However if the fan is oriented in a pull configuration(opposite to its current position), the hot air passing over the fins would not exactly be tunneled or directed outside the chassis. This could adversely affect chassis temps. Mandating a push configuration could again have shaved a few inches along the chassis' Y-axis dimension.
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post #2 of 25 Old 09-13-2012, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 25 Old 09-13-2012, 10:58 AM
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Wow, what timing. I am trying to narrow down parts for a mini-itx build myself with basically the same goal as you.

I had totally forgot about the thin mini-itx spec that Intel introduced with their 6 series. I didn't know they had a 7 series equivalent.

I was considering a standard Intel board, but I'll switch to this one. My only question is the case and if it is what I want. Like you said, there are few choices that take advantage of it. Ill be following your build closely. I was hoping to get parts ordered soon though, so hopefully you can get case pictures up soon. That would help me alot. Thanks for sharing.
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post #4 of 25 Old 09-13-2012, 02:25 PM
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I'll be interested in hearing your impression of how loud the system is once its all done.

I like that case, but I agree that they really wasted some space that could have been used to shrink the dimensions.

When I heard about the slim boards, I was hoping to see a smaller footprint then this Lian Li, but I could live with it considering the lack of options.
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post #5 of 25 Old 09-13-2012, 09:04 PM
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What are you planning to do for remote control? Since there is no built in IR with that case, itll have to be added.

Another annoying thing is that that DQ77 board lacks the CIR header that Intel's DH61 thin mini itx has, which means you cant just get a CIR reciever. If you have another solution other then using a usb based reciever, that would be great.
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post #6 of 25 Old 09-18-2012, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

I'll be interested in hearing your impression of how loud the system is once its all done.
I like that case, but I agree that they really wasted some space that could have been used to shrink the dimensions.
When I heard about the slim boards, I was hoping to see a smaller footprint then this Lian Li, but I could live with it considering the lack of options.

The noise levels on the machine are great, standing even 1-2 ft from the unit its completely silent. When watching movies that go silent for a few seconds or very low volume speech which is when you normally notice all sorts of sounds around the living area(AC, fridge, etc) the machine is absolutely silent. I could not have been more impressed with how silent the build is.
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post #7 of 25 Old 09-18-2012, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

What are you planning to do for remote control? Since there is no built in IR with that case, itll have to be added.
Another annoying thing is that that DQ77 board lacks the CIR header that Intel's DH61 thin mini itx has, which means you cant just get a CIR reciever. If you have another solution other then using a usb based reciever, that would be great.

The missing CIR header was a miss for this board but Im currently evaluating two options:

1. Lenovo N5902 Enhanced Multimedia Remote with Backlit Keyboard
I currently own the previous model of this same remote(N5901) which lacks the backlit keyboard and is a more glossy finish/material for the body of the remote.

2. XBMC iOS Remote
commiting to the XBMC native iOS app for remote would bring some 'coolness' to the whole setup; but it means that control/selection of media is now driven by the iOS device and not on the screen itself. To me that takes away from the time spent on skinning XBMC and setting up the views the way I like them because ultimately youll be staring at the screen on the iPod touch up until you hit 'Play' and then youll look up at the TV.

im leaning more towards the Lenovo remote as its backlit and might make navigating XBMC a little easier. Or whos to say i cant do a mix of both? smile.gif
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post #8 of 25 Old 09-19-2012, 05:56 PM
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Hey r3zon8,

Is there any added benefit to using low voltage RAM when you're forced to run it at 1.5v as opposed to 1.35v? Doesn't it defeat the purpose of having made the purchase in the first place? I was considering the kit you listed as I have the same mobo, but decided on this Kingston ValueRAM after having read that low voltage wouldn't work.
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post #9 of 25 Old 09-19-2012, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post

The missing CIR header was a miss for this board but Im currently evaluating two options:
1. Lenovo N5902 Enhanced Multimedia Remote with Backlit Keyboard
I currently own the previous model of this same remote(N5901) which lacks the backlit keyboard and is a more glossy finish/material for the body of the remote.
2. XBMC iOS Remote
commiting to the XBMC native iOS app for remote would bring some 'coolness' to the whole setup; but it means that control/selection of media is now driven by the iOS device and not on the screen itself. To me that takes away from the time spent on skinning XBMC and setting up the views the way I like them because ultimately youll be staring at the screen on the iPod touch up until you hit 'Play' and then youll look up at the TV.
im leaning more towards the Lenovo remote as its backlit and might make navigating XBMC a little easier. Or whos to say i cant do a mix of both? smile.gif

You can use the XBMC iOS remotes (which one btw, there are 3 smile.gif ) as a regular remote, using up/down/right/left buttons / swipe gestures, instead of browsing your libraries from them.
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post #10 of 25 Old 09-20-2012, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post

The missing CIR header was a miss for this board but Im currently evaluating two options:

I'm not sure what advantages CIR has over this: http://shop.inteset.com/Products/14-usb-internal-infrared-ir-receiver-only-with-cable-and-mounting-bracket.aspx.

I've had good luck with this Inteset solution working with my generic Anyware WMCE remote. Yes, it can put the system to sleep and wake it up with the MCE power button.
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post #11 of 25 Old 09-20-2012, 11:58 AM
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Yeah I'm curious too why CIR is wanted over USB?
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post #12 of 25 Old 09-20-2012, 08:33 PM
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I'm curious about what the cost ended up being!

Quick Newegg pricing shows:

$139.99 Intel DQ77KB
$144.99 Intel i3-3225
$22.49 (4G) Samsung 30nm Low Voltage DDR3 (I'm guessing here)
$119.99 (128G) Crucial M4 mSATA SSD
$79.99 Lian-Li PC-Q05 Thin mini-ITX Chassis:
______
$507

Close?
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post #13 of 25 Old 09-20-2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post

My second choice went to Akasa and their Euler chassis.
Looks nice, but I can't seem to find any place that is selling that case.
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post #14 of 25 Old 09-20-2012, 10:26 PM
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Looks very nice.

Where is PSU?

Good time to buy computers and computer parts: NEVER
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post #15 of 25 Old 09-20-2012, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by galileo2000 View Post

Looks very nice.
Where is PSU?

The board has DC input, so OP is probably going to use an external power brick. Nice way of preventing cable spaghetti and lowering temps.
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post #16 of 25 Old 09-21-2012, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post

The missing CIR header was a miss for this board but Im currently evaluating two options:
1. Lenovo N5902 Enhanced Multimedia Remote with Backlit Keyboard
I currently own the previous model of this same remote(N5901) which lacks the backlit keyboard and is a more glossy finish/material for the body of the remote.
2. XBMC iOS Remote
commiting to the XBMC native iOS app for remote would bring some 'coolness' to the whole setup; but it means that control/selection of media is now driven by the iOS device and not on the screen itself. To me that takes away from the time spent on skinning XBMC and setting up the views the way I like them because ultimately youll be staring at the screen on the iPod touch up until you hit 'Play' and then youll look up at the TV.
im leaning more towards the Lenovo remote as its backlit and might make navigating XBMC a little easier. Or whos to say i cant do a mix of both? smile.gif


I have the older Lenovo Remote as well, but I mainly use that for maintenance. For my main home theater tasks, I'm using a harmony, so I will definitely need to use some sort of ir reciever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazebo View Post

I'm not sure what advantages CIR has over this: http://shop.inteset.com/Products/14-usb-internal-infrared-ir-receiver-only-with-cable-and-mounting-bracket.aspx.
I've had good luck with this Inteset solution working with my generic Anyware WMCE remote. Yes, it can put the system to sleep and wake it up with the MCE power button.


Well from my research, it seemed that CIR was simply more reliable and easier to setup since it was integrated in the board. It can also allow you to turn on your htpc with the power button (not just when its asleep, but completely off). Its not a deal breaker, but it would have been a nice option imo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlv View Post

I'm curious about what the cost ended up being!
Quick Newegg pricing shows:
$139.99 Intel DQ77KB
$144.99 Intel i3-3225
$22.49 (4G) Samsung 30nm Low Voltage DDR3 (I'm guessing here)
$119.99 (128G) Crucial M4 mSATA SSD
$79.99 Lian-Li PC-Q05 Thin mini-ITX Chassis:
______
$507
Close?



In my own build thread, I have decided on a similar build based on the positive impressions here and elsewhere about the case. I was able to get the price to about 570, which included a 160w Ac Adapter from Mini-Box. So for reference, here is the cost for my build:

DQ77KB - 139.99 (amazon)
Intel i3 3225 - 139.99 (tiger direct sale)
Intel Thin MiniITX heatsink/fan combo - $25 (amazon)
8GB Kingston DDR3 Sodimm - $35 (amazon)
Samsung 830 128GB SSD - $96 (amazon)
Lian Li PC-Q05 Case - $81 (amazon)
Mini-Box 160w AC Adapter - $50 (http://www.mini-box.com/19v-8-4A-160-Watt-AC-DC-Power-Adapter)

Total: ~$567


So the board and processor really balloon the costs. You could go with say an Intel G860 instead and save ~$80. There are not many choices in motherboards, so the only way to save there would be to go with a MiniITX case instead of this thin MiniITX
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post #17 of 25 Old 10-09-2012, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Hey r3zon8,
Is there any added benefit to using low voltage RAM when you're forced to run it at 1.5v as opposed to 1.35v? Doesn't it defeat the purpose of having made the purchase in the first place? I was considering the kit you listed as I have the same mobo, but decided on this Kingston ValueRAM after having read that low voltage wouldn't work.

You're not forced to run the memory at 1.5v. You can run these DIMMs at 1.35v by setting the voltage at the BIOS level and keeping the timings/latency to factory specs. I did not experience the limitation on my DQ77KB as that user did...possibly my updated BIOS? The release notes for the current BIOS list 'improved memory compatability' as a note.

The added benefits are two fold in my opinion:

By being able to run the DIMMs at 1.35v at factory timings you could shave a bit of power consumption off the box...Honestly whos to say how important that really is but you can argue there's a tangible benefit.

The second benefit being that benchmarks/reviews have shown that madVR can greatly benefit from reduced latencies and greater memory bandwidth. Running the DIMMs at 1.5v(a normal voltage for other DIMMs) can yield the needed bandwidth.

Bonus benefit...the low profile DIMMs look great! No real benefit here, just personal preference.
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post #18 of 25 Old 10-09-2012, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEyez View Post

You can use the XBMC iOS remotes (which one btw, there are 3 smile.gif ) as a regular remote, using up/down/right/left buttons / swipe gestures, instead of browsing your libraries from them.

Thanks for the tip!

Im currently using an old Samsung Fascinate as a dedicated XBMC remote; more pics will follow shortly.
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post #19 of 25 Old 10-09-2012, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlv View Post

I'm curious about what the cost ended up being!
Quick Newegg pricing shows:
$139.99 Intel DQ77KB
$144.99 Intel i3-3225
$22.49 (4G) Samsung 30nm Low Voltage DDR3 (I'm guessing here)
$119.99 (128G) Crucial M4 mSATA SSD
$79.99 Lian-Li PC-Q05 Thin mini-ITX Chassis:
______
$507
Close?

Youre close, but with these changes:

1. Samsung 8GB(2x4GB) Kit - $45
2. 64GB m4 mSATA SSD - $63
3. My PC-Q05 was on sale on Newegg when i purchased. 20% off so $64
4. I had an old 90W Dell PowerBrick lying around the office from a D430 with the exact Inner/Outer Diamter specs - $0
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post #20 of 25 Old 10-10-2012, 07:44 AM
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So is this box pretty much just for streaming? If it is your ram and cpu are way overkill.
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post #21 of 25 Old 10-10-2012, 10:25 AM
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I'm not sure about his build, but mine is using similar hardware and my goal with it is to play back all of my movies and tv shows that I have stored locally on my server (bluray rips, etc) along with online streaming.

The online streaming doesn't need that much cpu, but the local playback might if I use MadVR. So for me, it was more about buying a little future proofing. Not to mention that the i3-3225 buys me 4K support is a little bonus vs say a G620/860. This is a box I plan on leaning on for many years, so I didn't mind spending a bit more upfront to handle loads for quite some time.

I went with 8GB of ram too, but for me it was just a matter of pricing. 4GB saved me very little, so I might as well get the most I would ever need on the system. Heck, I might even use this thing for some encoding considering the cpu.
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post #22 of 25 Old 10-10-2012, 07:35 PM
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Gotta agree. the i3-3225 is the best bang for a buck at the moment.
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post #23 of 25 Old 10-10-2012, 08:04 PM
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Gotta agree. the i3-3225 is the best bang for a buck at the moment.

I think the i3-2100 at $80 is a better deal personally. That's almost 50% less for a gigantic CPU.
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post #24 of 25 Old 10-21-2012, 02:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3zon8 View Post

This will be a record of my first attempt at building a HTPC that is small form factor, low power, low noise but with video processing capabilities to rival was is generally only achieved with larger builds...

Hi - I'm very happy to have discovered your post, as this was exactly the build I was looking at! So I must thank you for sharing your great build notes - your post is really helpful.

I was about to order the same components when I stumbled across an eye-widening comment in another blog about the audio of this board, as it is apparently aimed at 'executives' (which I didn't expect, it seems great for an HTPC to me).

So I looked on the Intel site, and sure enough their specs talk about it having "2+2 channel audio" (here and here). I'm aiming for at least 5.1 audio for my HTPC and, as you specifically mention you're building this for HTPC duty as well, could I trouble you to give us some insight into the audio configuration you're using yours in? I'm crossing my fingers this is another example of a typo on the Intel site... wink.gif
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post #25 of 25 Old 10-21-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
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I think the i3-2100 at $80 is a better deal personally. That's almost 50% less for a gigantic CPU.

The i3-2100 doesn't have 4K support, so in that regard it's not as future proof. Whether that makes sense from a financial standpoint (by the time 4k material is available, it's likely that Intel's cheapest $50 proc will easily support it) is another thing entirely.
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