WMC is washed out after calibration - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 09-16-2012, 03:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MSL_DK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I hope I can make myself understood with my limited English.

I am the unlucky owner of an ATI card where I have set the pixel format to "Full RGB" I then "calibrated" using ACP HD 709 - Version 2c with MPC-HC and madVR (0-255) with the result that WMC is washed out and without contrast.

Is there a solution to this problem?
MSL_DK is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 09-16-2012, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MSL_DK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Can I calibrate windows / wmc using spyder4 express and then calibrate mpc-hc/madvr and create a .3dlut for use in madvr. Will it do the job?
MSL_DK is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 09-16-2012, 05:19 AM
Senior Member
 
SteelWill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 487
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Try making this change to your registry:


Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Debug\ehPresenter.dll]
"NominalRange"=dword:00000001


If that doesn't work try running this:
http://www.upsilonsoftware.com/company/6-website/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12

Either of those should fix media center without throwing anything else off.
SteelWill is offline  
post #4 of 15 Old 09-16-2012, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MSL_DK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelWill View Post

Try making this change to your registry:
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Debug\ehPresenter.dll]
"NominalRange"=dword:00000001
If that doesn't work try running this:
http://www.upsilonsoftware.com/company/6-website/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12
Either of those should fix media center without throwing anything else off.

As I understand it, so it does not affect anything other than the video playback ... it is wmc interface which is washed out

EDIT:
I do not use WMC to play video I use only mpc-hc/madvr through media browser
MSL_DK is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 09-16-2012, 08:15 AM
Senior Member
 
SteelWill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 487
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Yes, the options I posted just affect HD video levels in WMC. Sorry, it doesn't look like that's what you're looking for.
SteelWill is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 09-16-2012, 11:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mike99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,987
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 45
I had the same problem. If you Google WMC black levels you will get several results. It appears WMC does not use the proper black levels.

I recently installed an HD 6450 video card & the only Pixel Format setting that made WMC black levels correct was the "Full RGB". Problem is everything else looked too dark (MPC-HC, WMPlayer, Blu-ray player). The other 3 Pixel Format settings worked great for everything but WMC.

I did the registry hack & it only affects WMC and now it matches everything else. From what I can figure the HDTV is expecting 16-235 color which supposedly other consumer equipment uses. You might want to choose one of the other Pixel Formats & re-calibrate. And of course do the registry hack. I'm told you need a blank last line under the "NominalRange"=dword:00000001.
Mike99 is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 09-17-2012, 01:27 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
MSL_DK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Denmark
Posts: 116
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

I had the same problem. If you Google WMC black levels you will get several results. It appears WMC does not use the proper black levels.
I recently installed an HD 6450 video card & the only Pixel Format setting that made WMC black levels correct was the "Full RGB". Problem is everything else looked too dark (MPC-HC, WMPlayer, Blu-ray player). The other 3 Pixel Format settings worked great for everything but WMC.
I did the registry hack & it only affects WMC and now it matches everything else. From what I can figure the HDTV is expecting 16-235 color which supposedly other consumer equipment uses. You might want to choose one of the other Pixel Formats & re-calibrate. And of course do the registry hack. I'm told you need a blank last line under the "NominalRange"=dword:00000001.

Nothing helps ... WMC interface expects 16-235. change in regedit helps only the video played through WMC.

Okay ... here are my settings.

GFX = RGB 4:4:4 pixel format PC Standard (Full RGB) (0-255)
Samsung TV = NORMAL (0-255)
madVR = 0-255

These settings looks perfect for video playback through MPC-HC, but WMC is washed out.
MSL_DK is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 09-17-2012, 04:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mike99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,987
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 45
Did you do the registry hack?
Did you change the ATI Pixel Format to something other than the Full RGB?
Did you recalibrate after doing these?

If not, then WMC will always look washed out.

I think the important thing is NOT using Full RGB. IMO if you calibrate with this setting then you are not calibrating correctly, you are calibrating for the wrong color range.
Mike99 is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 09-18-2012, 05:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mike99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,987
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 45
This is a lengthy explanation. Maybe just read the first page or two.
http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/114/p/59322/278264.aspx#278264
This comment on the last page basically summarizes things.
“My query is with the nominal range setting at 2, my understanding is that RGB content playing in media center will be converted to 16-235, where the graphics card will kindly convert it to 16-235 a second time on the way out the hdmi cable, washing out the picture?”

Here’s some more info.
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/calibrate-your-system/hdmi-black-levels-xvycc-rgb
Mike99 is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 09-21-2012, 06:33 AM
Senior Member
 
rsoares28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
My Panny VT25 was professionally ISFcalibrated. i just assumed whatever i plugged into the tv would benefit from that calibration. i didn't even think the pc would need to be fiddled with. Would it be a good idea to use this registry hack? I use the the on-board video from a i3 2100.

I notcied in the newest firmware from intel the limited/full setting has dissappeared. Maybe they are trying to fix the issue with the Full setting reverting to limited once you restart.

Will this hack give me the black level my tv is capable of?
rsoares28 is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 09-21-2012, 08:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Foxbat121's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 9,841
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsoares28 View Post

My Panny VT25 was professionally ISFcalibrated. i just assumed whatever i plugged into the tv would benefit from that calibration. i didn't even think the pc would need to be fiddled with. Would it be a good idea to use this registry hack? I use the the on-board video from a i3 2100.
I notcied in the newest firmware from intel the limited/full setting has dissappeared. Maybe they are trying to fix the issue with the Full setting reverting to limited once you restart.
Will this hack give me the black level my tv is capable of?

All Panasonic TVs are using 16-235 video range while PCs normally use 0-255 PC range. But if you connect PC to TV via HDMI, most video card will convert PC range to video range on HDMI port. Some video card let you pick output type. Some may not. On the PC side of things, Windows desktop and most applications output full PC range, including WMP. However, Windows Media Center by default output limited video range. I'm not sure how a HDMI output of the video card will do to the WMC default output (convert twice?). I always apply registry hack to force WMC output full range because I typically use PC monitor for viewing and NEVER use TVs for my PC to avoid such confusions.

There is no fool proof way to guarantee the consistent color space matching between PC and TVs. Just remember, all regular video sources are encoded as limited range. TVs are typically designed to handle the limited range, any conversion to other range will introduce unnecessary conversion artifacts in the middle.
Foxbat121 is online now  
post #12 of 15 Old 09-21-2012, 11:16 AM
Senior Member
 
rsoares28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Thanks for the reply. so i'll leave it as is
rsoares28 is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 09-21-2012, 03:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mike99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,987
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 45
When I used onboard mobo HDMI & WMC7 there was no problem. Supposedly WMC outputs 16-235 which is what my HDTV was expecting.

Then I added an HD 6450 video card and the blacks were washed out when using WMC7, unless I used the Full RGB setting in the CCC. But then I suffered black crush & lost shadow detail when using other video software.

If you only use WMC then Full RGB (0-255) is OK. But it's incorrect for everything else. That's because WMC will change 0-255 to 16-235 for your HDTV.

Take WMC out of the equation & the PC should output 16-235, so you need to set the video card to 16-235. But then if you use WMC it will automatically change the PC's 0-255 to 16-235. So you end up having both WMC & the video card do a conversion, which creates washed out blacks. In this scenario you need to change WMC to 0-255 so that it will be just like everything else being fed to the video card, and this is done using the registry hack.
Mike99 is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 09-21-2012, 05:59 PM
Senior Member
 
rsoares28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 302
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Ok i'm a little confused now. I do ONLY use WMC..... however with onboard graphics. Should i apply the hack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

When I used onboard mobo HDMI & WMC7 there was no problem. Supposedly WMC outputs 16-235 which is what my HDTV was expecting.
Then I added an HD 6450 video card and the blacks were washed out when using WMC7, unless I used the Full RGB setting in the CCC. But then I suffered black crush & lost shadow detail when using other video software.
If you only use WMC then Full RGB (0-255) is OK. But it's incorrect for everything else. That's because WMC will change 0-255 to 16-235 for your HDTV.
Take WMC out of the equation & the PC should output 16-235, so you need to set the video card to 16-235. But then if you use WMC it will automatically change the PC's 0-255 to 16-235. So you end up having both WMC & the video card do a conversion, which creates washed out blacks.
So you need to change WMC to 0-255 so that it will be just like everything else being fed to the video card, and this is done using the registry hack.[/quote
rsoares28 is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 09-21-2012, 11:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Mike99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,987
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 45
NO.

Just to make sure everything looks OK you can use WMC > Tasks > Settings > TV > Configure your TV or monitor.
There are some basic black level test patterns there. Go through the steps & let me know if your setup looks OK.

I edited the last sentence in my previous posting & hopefully it makes more sense.
Mike99 is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off