New AMD A10 for a HTPC? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 10-02-2012, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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My current htpc can't do lossless audio and has some other weaknesses, so I'm thinking about rebuilding my system around one of these new processors. Thoughts/opinions?
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post #2 of 35 Old 10-02-2012, 06:58 PM
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Can't do lossless audio? Why not? I'm not sure why the processor would be an issue for lossless audio.

Your own goals for the HTPC might be quite different than most. An A10 is for extensive mutli-tasking. Are you planning something like that? For a true HTPC, I think most (and I do) target low power consumption overall once the performance goals are reached.
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post #3 of 35 Old 10-02-2012, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I suppose I should have been more specific....my current HTPC can't do lossless audio via the onboard graphics/HDMI. I could add a graphics card to do it, but in an era where onboard graphics and/or APU-type chips are capable of doing what I want, I'd rather not. smile.gif
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post #4 of 35 Old 10-02-2012, 08:52 PM
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SVP for sticking @ 60Hz in TVs/Movies would require quad core to work well. I would't care if the auto refresh changing properly changed refresh rates in XBMC and/or MPC-HC.... but they don't and require context menus to be propped up so smooth out the video (issue for like 4 years now?).

anyways... I can't do SVP on my main HTPC which is a dual core I3 2100, whereas my 3 year old laptop with a mobile quad core i7 can do it quite well. That alone is a reason I'm looking for the mobile A10 as a replacement for my primary HTPC... the added graphics core performance in the A10 is just gravy over the discrete 6450 I've got right now.
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post #5 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 01:18 PM
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Anandtech says the A10 is close, maybe slightly behind, to the i3 in CPU performance, but blows the i3 and Intel HD4000 away graphics wise. It does have a TDP of 100W though, and power consumption is big, especially under load. Still, I'm very, very interested in an A10 to replace my AMD E-350.
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post #6 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rc05 View Post

Anandtech says the A10 is close, maybe slightly behind, to the i3 in CPU performance, but blows the i3 and Intel HD4000 away graphics wise. It does have a TDP of 100W though, and power consumption is big, especially under load. Still, I'm very, very interested in an A10 to replace my AMD E-350.

Why? For 1080p? 100w tdp doesn't make much sense.


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post #7 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 03:21 PM
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I agree. APU's are rather crap. Anandtech just put CPU benchmarks. They are not impressive. For 1080p a G540 is sufficient unless you must have 23.976 rock solid playback with Nvidia (if you care, that is).
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post #8 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 05:24 PM
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The only thing the E-350 can't seem to do for me is deinterlace some WMC content. Lines are especially noticeable on animation. I can't get a video card because I only have 1 PCIe slot and it's occupied by a ceton tuner. But now that I think about it, 100W TDP (if I have that correct) is huge.
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post #9 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 06:41 PM
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I say go for it. Winter's coming on and you can never have enough space heaters...tongue.gif


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post #10 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 08:15 PM
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Wow, even the multithreading performance is neck and neck with a core i3 (dual core). That's really bad! I don't even think the very best desktop A10 APU can do SVP. I'm really reconsidering now. I may just have to build a new intel based quad core (lowest TDP) and put in another 6450 or something in order to do SVP.

*sigh*
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post #11 of 35 Old 10-03-2012, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

I say go for it. Winter's coming on and you can never have enough space heaters...tongue.gif

I live in California, it's still 70 degrees in the winter biggrin.gif. The only reason I'm considering one of the Trinity processors is because of my deinterlacing problems. I assume it can't be fixed with such low processing power on the E-350. But I guess I'll look into Intel.
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post #12 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 01:00 PM
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So will the A10-5700 at 65W not the the Retail market?
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post #13 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 03:15 PM
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The A10-5700 is in-stock at TigerDirect.com for $129.99.

 

 

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post #14 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 03:52 PM
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ahh yes it is http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4501107&CatId=7182

So I'm looking at the benchmarks of the A10-5700 and the i3-3225 seams like the A10 is actually a more powerful CPU or am i looking at these benchmarks all wrong?

AMD A10-5700 APU - 65W
Passmark CPU Mark - 6913
Rank - 91



Intel Core i3-3225 - 55W
Passmark CPU Mark - 4727
Rank - 181
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post #15 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by im bored View Post

ahh yes it is http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4501107&CatId=7182
So I'm looking at the benchmarks of the A10-5700 and the i3-3225 seams like the A10 is actually a more powerful CPU or am i looking at these benchmarks all wrong?
AMD A10-5700 APU - 65W
Passmark CPU Mark - 6913
Rank - 91

Intel Core i3-3225 - 55W
Passmark CPU Mark - 4727
Rank - 181

Passmark is rubbish. Look here, AMD gets smashed, only saviour is the gaming grunt (if you don't game, it isn't worth it.):

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/A10-5800K-vs-Core-i3-3220-CPU-Review/1646
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post #16 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 04:40 PM
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good read thank you.
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post #17 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by im bored View Post

ahh yes it is http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4501107&CatId=7182
So I'm looking at the benchmarks of the A10-5700 and the i3-3225 seams like the A10 is actually a more powerful CPU or am i looking at these benchmarks all wrong?
AMD A10-5700 APU - 65W
Passmark CPU Mark - 6913
Rank - 91

Intel Core i3-3225 - 55W
Passmark CPU Mark - 4727
Rank - 181

Yes, but people will say its a quad core vs dual core. I think its more a price per performance thing, and benchmarks will not be completely consistent across every test.
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post #18 of 35 Old 10-04-2012, 10:58 PM
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AMD's best 4 cores can barely match Intel's more or less mid range dual core. AMD's architecture and the way their processors "tick" is just poor. Price doesn't even come into it. A 3220 is roughly the same price (within $10) of an A10. If you know you can use an A10, by all means go for it. Just for most people an i3 is sufficient (right now anyway).
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post #19 of 35 Old 10-05-2012, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

AMD's best 4 cores can barely match Intel's more or less mid range dual core. AMD's architecture and the way their processors "tick" is just poor. Price doesn't even come into it. A 3220 is roughly the same price (within $10) of an A10. If you know you can use an A10, by all means go for it. Just for most people an i3 is sufficient (right now anyway).

AMD's quad core is not exactly a full blown quad core, as two cores share some architecture. I believe the design was designed with high core count in mind like the less optimized 8 core bulldozer chips. Its not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Either way APU's are obviously aimed for low to mid range systems say under $500, anyone opting for a high end system will go for a stronger cpu with discrete graphics with the graphics card alone costing a couple hundred bucks. Your average user who does multimedia(including us HTPC guys), email, web browsing, productivity has absolutely no need for a high end system these days. With consuls unfortunately taking over the gaming market there is very little use for high end systems at all any more, they are becoming a very niche market. I read that intel would not accept any design improvements for Haswell that would increase power consumption, so even intel is stressing all out performance less.

P.S. I'm typing this from my underwhelming amd e450 based laptop, that I'm perfectly happy with for laptop use.
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post #20 of 35 Old 10-05-2012, 08:05 PM
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On the CPU side an A10 is similar to an i3. On the video side it is 10x better, but an i3 is "enough" if you are just doing playback and not playing any 3D games. I think use model decides which is better for you.
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post #21 of 35 Old 10-05-2012, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

AMD's quad core is not exactly a full blown quad core, as two cores share some architecture. I believe the design was designed with high core count in mind like the less optimized 8 core bulldozer chips. Its not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Either way APU's are obviously aimed for low to mid range systems say under $500, anyone opting for a high end system will go for a stronger cpu with discrete graphics with the graphics card alone costing a couple hundred bucks. Your average user who does multimedia(including us HTPC guys), email, web browsing, productivity has absolutely no need for a high end system these days. With consuls unfortunately taking over the gaming market there is very little use for high end systems at all any more, they are becoming a very niche market. I read that intel would not accept any design improvements for Haswell that would increase power consumption, so even intel is stressing all out performance less.
P.S. I'm typing this from my underwhelming amd e450 based laptop, that I'm perfectly happy with for laptop use.

Pffft, consoles are taking over nothing. Look at the Witcher 2, look at Metro 2033, look at Crysis and Far Cry, look at Sleeping Dogs; those are games built for PC maxed out, not 6yr old tech that is slower than your phone. If you haven't experienced a high end gaming PC, then you wouldn't have a clue what I mean. Consoles are utter trash for any sort of enthusiast. These enthusiasts are going nowhere and the last thing they are are "very niche". Anyway, for your *average* user, an i3 is far better in terms of CPU grunt and power consumption than AMD's APU's.
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post #22 of 35 Old 10-06-2012, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lespurgeon View Post

On the CPU side an A10 is similar to an i3. On the video side it is 10x better, but an i3 is "enough" if you are just doing playback and not playing any 3D games. I think use model decides which is better for you.

Celerons and intel dual cores are the sweet spot for the average HTPC IMO. i3 is on the overkill side. You dont gain much if anything on the IGP side with an i3, and on the processing side, it's a lot of overkill. Atom/Zacate is 'enough' for the average HTPC as it will work and play about anything you throw at it. Celeron/DualCore is the sweet spot as it will have better performance for front end and other general processing as well as better de-interlacing and such on the graphics side. If you arent going to mess with anything beyond the standard quality settings, anything more then that isnt really that beneficial. Now if your going to set it up for some extensive post processing such as madVR, then the step up beyond that level is worth while. Basicly for people just using HTPC for TV/DVR, downloaded or ripped movies including high bitrate 264/mkv's and such, bluray, etc using standard codecs just arent going to see much benefit going beyond a celeron/dual core setup. Of course if the machine serves other purposes such as gaming, or you do a lot of encoding vs just decoding, etc, then all that is out the window and you will benefit from extra power to suit your needs.
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post #23 of 35 Old 10-06-2012, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

Pffft, consoles are taking over nothing. Look at the Witcher 2, look at Metro 2033, look at Crysis and Far Cry, look at Sleeping Dogs; those are games built for PC maxed out, not 6yr old tech that is slower than your phone. If you haven't experienced a high end gaming PC, then you wouldn't have a clue what I mean. Consoles are utter trash for any sort of enthusiast. These enthusiasts are going nowhere and the last thing they are are "very niche". Anyway, for your *average* user, an i3 is far better in terms of CPU grunt and power consumption than AMD's APU's.

Core i3 is far from a slam dunk for general use for people with no discrete graphics card. If you look at the charts trinity absolutely kills intel chips whenever the graphics part of the apu comes into play. Buying a trinity HTPC vs Core i3 allows users to be able to play lots of games at 1080p, and handle anything when it comes to HTPC duties. By the way game makers are making way more profit off of consuls so this is their focus, how many games are released for the PC that aren't also on the consul? Also I do have a gaming rig that currently plays everything on the market, its SB core i5, 8 gigs of ram with gts450 thinking of upgrading to a HD 7850.
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post #24 of 35 Old 10-06-2012, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by C17chief View Post

Celerons and intel dual cores are the sweet spot for the average HTPC IMO. i3 is on the overkill side. You dont gain much if anything on the IGP side with an i3, and on the processing side, it's a lot of overkill. Atom/Zacate is 'enough' for the average HTPC as it will work and play about anything you throw at it. Celeron/DualCore is the sweet spot as it will have better performance for front end and other general processing as well as better de-interlacing and such on the graphics side. If you arent going to mess with anything beyond the standard quality settings, anything more then that isnt really that beneficial. Now if your going to set it up for some extensive post processing such as madVR, then the step up beyond that level is worth while. Basicly for people just using HTPC for TV/DVR, downloaded or ripped movies including high bitrate 264/mkv's and such, bluray, etc using standard codecs just arent going to see much benefit going beyond a celeron/dual core setup. Of course if the machine serves other purposes such as gaming, or you do a lot of encoding vs just decoding, etc, then all that is out the window and you will benefit from extra power to suit your needs.

Zacate could have been a great HTPC chip except for the fact that flash and silverlight never fixed their software to be efficiently accelerated in hardware. It still doesn't make a bad HTPC and I still use the crap out of mine as my secondary HTPC, sole DVR, and home monitoring. It still beats almost everything out there for power consumption. Basically we don't need a cpu any more powerful than a 2.0ghz dual core 2 duo for our use, so yes a celeron G530 is substantially more powerful than whats needed.
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post #25 of 35 Old 10-06-2012, 12:28 PM
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I have an i3 for a HTPC, and it's OK, but I can't run MadVR on it, which I need to do to get better graphics from DVDs put on a 92 inch screen. Currently, my Oppo blows away my HTPC for this functionality, but I never use the Oppo unless I'm doing this test.

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post #26 of 35 Old 10-06-2012, 01:05 PM
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I was putting together a dual core atom/ion nettop and for the hell of it threw on mpc-hc with LAV and madVR. It stuttered a little at default settings but runs fine on bilinear with cuvid.
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post #27 of 35 Old 10-06-2012, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Core i3 is far from a slam dunk for general use for people with no discrete graphics card. If you look at the charts trinity absolutely kills intel chips whenever the graphics part of the apu comes into play. Buying a trinity HTPC vs Core i3 allows users to be able to play lots of games at 1080p, and handle anything when it comes to HTPC duties. By the way game makers are making way more profit off of consuls so this is their focus, how many games are released for the PC that aren't also on the consul? Also I do have a gaming rig that currently plays everything on the market, its SB core i5, 8 gigs of ram with gts450 thinking of upgrading to a HD 7850.

1080p at low/medium, not maxed for that APU. Which defeats the purpose to my mind of PC gaming. Same with your 450 or 7850. You won't run any new PC game completely pushed up. Even High will be pushing it over the next year. There are a stack of games on PC that are designed for them - they have DirectX 11, DOF, HBAO, tessellation, high res textures and more. They are not cut down completely like consoles are. Yes the graphics of APU's are great, but look at the downsides - poor single threaded and IPC performance and a big fat TDP. For most, an i3 is the sufficient and superior choice.
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Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

1080p at low/medium, not maxed for that APU. Which defeats the purpose to my mind of PC gaming. Same with your 450 or 7850. You won't run any new PC game completely pushed up. Even High will be pushing it over the next year. There are a stack of games on PC that are designed for them - they have DirectX 11, DOF, HBAO, tessellation, high res textures and more. They are not cut down completely like consoles are. Yes the graphics of APU's are great, but look at the downsides - poor single threaded and IPC performance and a big fat TDP. For most, an i3 is the sufficient and superior choice.

Crysis 2 played really well on my GTS450 at 1080p, pretty sure I had setting set to high. Typically I don't buy games until they drop below $30 so I'm always about a year behind anyways. The main reason I haven't dropped the gts450 in favor of the 7850 is that its still performing pretty decent. By the way currently considering Deus Ex: Human Revolution $14.99 and one year old, it doesn't pay to have the newest game.

by the way I agree about the TDP and would only recommend 65W versions of trinity.
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post #29 of 35 Old 10-06-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruiner View Post

I was putting together a dual core atom/ion nettop and for the hell of it threw on mpc-hc with LAV and madVR. It stuttered a little at default settings but runs fine on bilinear with cuvid.

The main issue with atom and zacate is streaming HD, neither flash or silverlight have been optimized very well for hardware acceleration. There doesn't seem to be enough demand either to where they seem motivated to fix this issue.
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post #30 of 35 Old 10-06-2012, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Crysis 2 played really well on my GTS450 at 1080p, pretty sure I had setting set to high. Typically I don't buy games until they drop below $30 so I'm always about a year behind anyways. The main reason I haven't dropped the gts450 in favor of the 7850 is that its still performing pretty decent. By the way currently considering Deus Ex: Human Revolution $14.99 and one year old, it doesn't pay to have the newest game.
by the way I agree about the TDP and would only recommend 65W versions of trinity.

That makes sense. I set all settings to Extreme on my 7950. High would be more or less doable on DirectX 9 or 10.
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