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post #91 of 622 Old 11-02-2012, 10:43 PM
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If you spend $5 on Start8, most of the complaints here disappear, and you are left with a desktop OS that is noticeably faster and more power efficient than Windows 7 was, with a number of good UI improvements (such as the new explorer, file transfer UI etc.) without any of the Metro UI. (Start8 brings back the Windows 7 start menu, can disable the hot-corners, and will boot straight to the desktop)

"But why do I have to buy software to fix Windows 8" you cry. You don't. Windows 8 is not "broken" it's different. Different is not the same as broken, or worse.
Personally I don't like the Metro start screen, so I chose to buy it, but it's certainly not required. (there are also free apps that do similar things, but Start8 is by far the most polished in my testing)
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Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

I've heard that multitasking is a lot harder in Win8, which is why I am asking this question. I normally have a bunch of programs open and if I can't switch through them easily using the taskbar (like in the screenshot), then I will never use Win8.
It's almost the same as Windows 7. Alt + Tab switches between all applications, and your running applications will be on the taskbar just like Windows 7.
Win + Tab has been replaced and now switches between Metro apps rather than the Aero Flip in Windows 7. (did anyone ever use that?)

There is also a new task switcher for Metro apps that can be accessed via hot-corners on the left hand side of the screen. (note: the desktop, and all programs that run inside it, is classed as a single Metro app)
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Originally Posted by vladd View Post

...

So no... not the same number of steps (and much less mouse movement). And that's only one example.
Most users simply close the lid on their notebooks, or hit the power button to shut down their desktops. Most keyboards also have a power button on them these days. The software option is mostly redundant in 2012.
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

A new UI should be intuitive and easy to use.
Most of the complaints I see here are not about the UI being unintuitive, but rather things not behaving the same way that they used to. Those are two separate things. Just because something has changed, does not make it unintuitive.
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Originally Posted by snappjay View Post

My issues mainly stem from drivers on my Macbook Air (no facetime camera, no gestures, no brightness controls, etc) and less with the OS
You're probably fine installing the Windows 7 boot camp package for those things. Apple seems to be distancing themselves from Windows again these days though, with them dropping support for Safari, and it's ridiculous that they don't have a driver pack ready for Windows 8 on day one.
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Originally Posted by duff99 View Post

Windows 8 is not trying to improve desktop software. They're just trying to prop up their tablet OS by messing with their core market.
Actually, there are a considerable number of back-end changes, UI changes and new features that are big improvements to the desktop experience with Windows 8. You just have to look beyond the Metro start screen to realize that.

There is an improved explorer UI, file transfers have been completely redone on the back-end and have a much nicer UI now, Hyper-V Virtualization is now a core windows application rather than being limited to servers, memory usage throughout the OS is lowered, power management is considerably improved, there's a great new Task Manager, general UI/system performance is up, SSDs are handled better and should perform faster, there's now a standard anti-virus/anti-malware solution built into Windows, there are now parental controls built into the OS, there's a whole new filesystem (ReFS) there's a new file history function.

And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.
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Originally Posted by tman247 View Post

Copying files is almost entirely dependant on your network speed and the device you're copying to. I can get 70-80MB/s copying large movie files to my WHS on 7, I doubt very much I'd be looking at 700MB/s in Windows 8 (on the same Gb NIC!) smile.gif
But they will definitely be faster. SMB 3.0 is a huge improvement.
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post #92 of 622 Old 11-02-2012, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Most users simply close the lid on their notebooks, or hit the power button to shut down their desktops. Most keyboards also have a power button on them these days. The software option is mostly redundant in 2012.
I don't know anyone in my daily life who actually hits the power button, on the keyboard or the case, to shut down their desktop. They all do it with a mouse or, in rare instances, keyboard navigation. Not to mention that this is an HTPC forum where many users do not even have a keyboard attached.
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Most of the complaints I see here are not about the UI being unintuitive, but rather things not behaving the same way that they used to. Those are two separate things. Just because something has changed, does not make it unintuitive.
An OS can change and be intuitive but Win8 is not a good example of this. Vista/Win7 did not behave the way XP did in many respects but they were very intuitive. The Metro/Desktop hybrid is not intuitive at all. It has the feel of two incomplete OSes placed together just to be able to do everything (very similar to WinME although nowhere near the abomination that was).
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post #93 of 622 Old 11-02-2012, 11:12 PM
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I just installed Windows 8 on my primary HTPC. Its where I get all my television and I and my family rely on it for all of our movies and music. I can say, that after the learning curve, we are really enjoying Windows 8. The app centric model is perfect and really very nice. Its close to replacing XBMC for me with just the Metro interface. It works very well for the 10foot interface. Hulu is great. Much much better then the desktop app. Its nice I can check email fast.

I have the Lenovo Lighted mouse keyboard as my primary means. I'v been able to move around in Metro without much trouble. The scrolling is done very will as it has a dedicated touch surface for scrolling and side scrolls perfectly and smooth. When more apps get build, I'll enjoy Windows 8 more.
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post #94 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico66 View Post

"control userpasswords2" and "netplwiz" do the same thing. And this still works in Win8 (non domain environment.) But if you're using an email account to logon, then you need to specify this account name in the netplwiz UI (+ the matching passord).

Er, as I said, I used NETPLWIZ, and it still won't autologon...

The particular system that I'm doing this on is our HTPC, and it is set up with just one account, which is a local account (i.e. not linked to a Microsoft account).

Since there is just the one account, it is also an Administrator account (the first account in Windows 8 is always set up as an Administrator class account).

But NETPLWIZ is not working for me. I see that other people are saying that it does - have you actually got this to work on your own Windows 8 setups, or are you just expecting it to work (as I was)?

Thanks.

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post #95 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by gcoupe View Post

Er, as I said, I used NETPLWIZ, and it still won't autologon...
The particular system that I'm doing this on is our HTPC, and it is set up with just one account, which is a local account (i.e. not linked to a Microsoft account).
Since there is just the one account, it is also an Administrator account (the first account in Windows 8 is always set up as an Administrator class account).
But NETPLWIZ is not working for me. I see that other people are saying that it does - have you actually got this to work on your own Windows 8 setups, or are you just expecting it to work (as I was)?
Thanks.
control userpasswords2 works on my system. (local account)
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post #96 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 05:30 AM
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Odd. Neither Control userpasswords2 nor NETPLWIZ (both of which take me to the same place) have any effect on my system. Autologon just doesn't work...

Geoff Coupe
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post #97 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 05:37 AM
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Worked fine for me. Just open up a command prompt and type "netplwiz" without the quotes and hit enter. It brings up the dialog window for allowing users to log on without having to type in a password. Uncheck the box and hit Apply. You'll be prompted to enter and confirm your password and then you're done.
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post #98 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 05:50 AM
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Yes, netplwiz worked fine for me on Windows 8. It's of the first tings I did after upgrading to Windows 8 yesterday.
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post #99 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

Worked fine for me. Just open up a command prompt and type "netplwiz" without the quotes and hit enter. It brings up the dialog window for allowing users to log on without having to type in a password. Uncheck the box and hit Apply. You'll be prompted to enter and confirm your password and then you're done.
And that's exactly what I did - but it won't autologon... Sigh.

Geoff Coupe
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post #100 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gcoupe View Post

And that's exactly what I did - but it won't autologon... Sigh.

The netplwiz sets the password your pc will use to autologon. It does not actually set your user password though.
Do a ctrl-alt-delete and select "Change a password"

Had me stumped for a little while too.
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post #101 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 07:44 AM
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My final verdict is that metro is less productive than the standard desktop. I can see that it might eventually be easier to learn and simpler to use if MS forces all developers to make programs that launch in the metro interface. When you have to use metro and the desktop you are using two distinct systems, so that's obviously not simpler. But the thing I'm having the biggest issue is that working within metro makes it much harder to multitask. You can't resize open programs and rearrange them on your screen so that its easy to view and work in all of them and there are no tabs to go back and forth between them. You can push an open program to the side and open another program in a larger window next to it, but its just not the same. I don't think people are going to like it on a tablet if it keeps dropping back into desktop mode, and I think desktop users might find working in metro slows them down.

Anyone know if win8 tablets enforce metro only, or do you keep popping back to the desktop?
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post #102 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jprovence View Post

I just installed Windows 8 on my primary HTPC. Its where I get all my television and I and my family rely on it for all of our movies and music. I can say, that after the learning curve, we are really enjoying Windows 8. The app centric model is perfect and really very nice. Its close to replacing XBMC for me with just the Metro interface. It works very well for the 10foot interface. Hulu is great. Much much better then the desktop app. Its nice I can check email fast.
I have the Lenovo Lighted mouse keyboard as my primary means. I'v been able to move around in Metro without much trouble. The scrolling is done very will as it has a dedicated touch surface for scrolling and side scrolls perfectly and smooth. When more apps get build, I'll enjoy Windows 8 more.

Yes, I think metro might be good for entertainment devices: HTPC, tablets, etc, I'm just not sure people are going to like it as much for productivity. Since this is a HTPC forum though, I think metro could be a great interface for us, providing the major players make native metro apps. So far the only really good native metro app is from netflix. We need an amazon steaming app, hulu basic app, and maybe itunes(fat chance) It would be nice if media center was shredded into different apps such as DVR/live TV app, disc player app, locally stored media app, etc.
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post #103 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boke01 View Post

The netplwiz sets the password your pc will use to autologon. It does not actually set your user password though.
Do a ctrl-alt-delete and select "Change a password"
Had me stumped for a little while too.

Nope, that wasn't it. I already had a password on the account, and used it in the autologon setup as well.

I finally got it working. What I did was to add another account - this time with a Microsoft account - and then delete this second account. Now the original account is logging on automatically without any other changes having been done.

It looks as though there was a glitch somewhere, and something has cleared it along the line...

Geoff Coupe
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post #104 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

If you spend $5 on Start8, most of the complaints here disappear, and you are left with a desktop OS that is noticeably faster and more power efficient than Windows 7 was, with a number of good UI improvements (such as the new explorer, file transfer UI etc.) without any of the Metro UI. (Start8 brings back the Windows 7 start menu, can disable the hot-corners, and will boot straight to the desktop)
"But why do I have to buy software to fix Windows 8" you cry. You don't. Windows 8 is not "broken" it's different. Different is not the same as broken, or worse.
Personally I don't like the Metro start screen, so I chose to buy it, but it's certainly not required. (there are also free apps that do similar things, but Start8 is by far the most polished in my testing)
It's almost the same as Windows 7. Alt + Tab switches between all applications, and your running applications will be on the taskbar just like Windows 7.
Win + Tab has been replaced and now switches between Metro apps rather than the Aero Flip in Windows 7. (did anyone ever use that?)
There is also a new task switcher for Metro apps that can be accessed via hot-corners on the left hand side of the screen. (note: the desktop, and all programs that run inside it, is classed as a single Metro app)
Most users simply close the lid on their notebooks, or hit the power button to shut down their desktops. Most keyboards also have a power button on them these days. The software option is mostly redundant in 2012.
Most of the complaints I see here are not about the UI being unintuitive, but rather things not behaving the same way that they used to. Those are two separate things. Just because something has changed, does not make it unintuitive.
You're probably fine installing the Windows 7 boot camp package for those things. Apple seems to be distancing themselves from Windows again these days though, with them dropping support for Safari, and it's ridiculous that they don't have a driver pack ready for Windows 8 on day one.
Actually, there are a considerable number of back-end changes, UI changes and new features that are big improvements to the desktop experience with Windows 8. You just have to look beyond the Metro start screen to realize that.
There is an improved explorer UI, file transfers have been completely redone on the back-end and have a much nicer UI now, Hyper-V Virtualization is now a core windows application rather than being limited to servers, memory usage throughout the OS is lowered, power management is considerably improved, there's a great new Task Manager, general UI/system performance is up, SSDs are handled better and should perform faster, there's now a standard anti-virus/anti-malware solution built into Windows, there are now parental controls built into the OS, there's a whole new filesystem (ReFS) there's a new file history function.
And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.
But they will definitely be faster. SMB 3.0 is a huge improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

I don't know anyone in my daily life who actually hits the power button, on the keyboard or the case, to shut down their desktop. They all do it with a mouse or, in rare instances, keyboard navigation. Not to mention that this is an HTPC forum where many users do not even have a keyboard attached.
An OS can change and be intuitive but Win8 is not a good example of this. Vista/Win7 did not behave the way XP did in many respects but they were very intuitive. The Metro/Desktop hybrid is not intuitive at all. It has the feel of two incomplete OSes placed together just to be able to do everything (very similar to WinME although nowhere near the abomination that was).

Vladd try Start8, it'll make all the difference.
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post #105 of 622 Old 11-03-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

Anyone know if win8 tablets enforce metro only, or do you keep popping back to the desktop?
Windows RT tablets (ARM CPUs - iPad competitors) can only run Metro apps, with the exception of MS Office, which runs on the desktop.
Windows 8 Pro tablets (x86 CPUs - convertible laptops) can run both desktop and Metro apps.
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post #106 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 07:52 AM
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Ive now been using Win8 since Friday, and I have to say, I love it. For those who want to use it purely as "Win7" can do so without seeing any of the new [Metro] stuff. Just have to install one lightweight program called Classic Shell -- it even boots you straight to Desktop. Though even without this program, Metro is a non-issue. I honestly can't think of one complaint about Win8 after 3 days of hardcore-power-user use. It kinda has made me wonder how anyone could complain about it! I was expecting something much worse. I was also unsure how it would all work for someone like me, a business/production hardcore user.

As for Metro.... it's just like having a tablet/phone interface (with apps) for those who want it for certain stuff, but you don't have to use it at all if you don't want to. Though I can totally understand why M$ built it this way. It's actually a smart move by them in the grand scheme of things. I now kinda wish I had a Win8 tablet/phone instead of Android... and this is coming from a hard-core Android user/fan. Because I would love the ability to my tablet (or phone) as a Desktop or Tablet-style (Metro) interface... all in one piece of hardware, and/or across multiple hardware (laptop/PC/Tablet/Phone).

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post #107 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 08:44 AM
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Most users simply close the lid on their notebooks, or hit the power button to shut down their desktops. Most keyboards also have a power button on them these days. The software option is mostly redundant in 2012.

Who in their right mind would essentially pull the plug on their computer to shut down? The only time you use the power button is when the computer has crashed and it won't respond. Do these people you know enjoy rebuilding their outlook folders every time they cut the power to their desktops? I was under the assumption that closing the lid on a laptop was basically putting it in standby mode or hibernation. I purchased a Compaq 100B for my htpc in June, and there is no power button on the keyboard. There was a Dell purchase at work last month and I don't recall a power off button, but I'll check. That is just not the way Window PC's work. Just think about how Window updates are handled during a proper shutdown.
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post #108 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 09:03 AM
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Huh? the power button hasn't immediately cut power for a very long time. It just sends a shutdown message to the OS. Unless you hold it down for 2 to 4 seconds.
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post #109 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 09:47 AM
 
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If there is no power button, how do you turn it on?
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post #110 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

If there is no power button, how do you turn it on?

The machine has a power button. The person I was responding to said current keyboards have power buttons on them.
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post #111 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jeffkro View Post

My final verdict is that metro is less productive than the standard desktop. I can see that it might eventually be easier to learn and simpler to use if MS forces all developers to make programs that launch in the metro interface. When you have to use metro and the desktop you are using two distinct systems, so that's obviously not simpler. But the thing I'm having the biggest issue is that working within metro makes it much harder to multitask. You can't resize open programs and rearrange them on your screen so that its easy to view and work in all of them and there are no tabs to go back and forth between them. You can push an open program to the side and open another program in a larger window next to it, but its just not the same. I don't think people are going to like it on a tablet if it keeps dropping back into desktop mode, and I think desktop users might find working in metro slows them down.
Anyone know if win8 tablets enforce metro only, or do you keep popping back to the desktop?

That's a deal breaker for me. I use a 37 inch monitor at work and have many programs open at once, usually several showing on my display at any time.

I can't see buying win8 just to learn a completely different operating system. I'm going to buy a new laptop very soon with win7 on it, so I don't have to wipe the win8 off the drive.

Bob
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post #112 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

That's a deal breaker for me. I use a 37 inch monitor at work and have many programs open at once, usually several showing on my display at any time.
I can't see buying win8 just to learn a completely different operating system. I'm going to buy a new laptop very soon with win7 on it, so I don't have to wipe the win8 off the drive.

You can use Windows 8 exactly like you use Windows 7. If you download one of the many start menu replacements available for Windows 8, you never even have to look at the metro interface at all.
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post #113 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

You can use Windows 8 exactly like you use Windows 7. If you download one of the many start menu replacements available for Windows 8, you never even have to look at the metro interface at all.

Why would I want to do that, when I can just get a Win 7 machine? Heck, I spend enough hours fiddling with my two HTPCs; why put more time on top of that to tweak an OS that doesn't provide any benefits (that I can see, anyway) over win7?

Bob
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post #114 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

Why would I want to do that, when I can just get a Win 7 machine? Heck, I spend enough hours fiddling with my two HTPCs; why put more time on top of that to tweak an OS that doesn't provide any benefits (that I can see, anyway) over win7?

I don't think there's anything wrong with Windows 7. I'm just saying I wouldn't rush out to get a Windows 7 laptop just to avoid Windows 8 for the reasons you described. Windows 8 does not hamper the multi-tasking from Windows 7 in any way.
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post #115 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

I don't think there's anything wrong with Windows 7. I'm just saying I wouldn't rush out to get a Windows 7 laptop just to avoid Windows 8 for the reasons you described. Windows 8 does not hamper the multi-tasking from Windows 7 in any way.

Are there any benefits to Win8 over Win7? This laptop is for my wife an to replace an aging Dell with win7. Something that looks like win7 for her is going to be much, much better than having her learn a new interface, especially for an interface where I cannot help her (as I don't plan on upgrading any of my other computers, which I build myself, until Win9, since they're WMC computers, and I don't see win8 being useful for WMC computers).

Bob
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post #116 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

Are there any benefits to Win8 over Win7? This laptop is for my wife an to replace an aging Dell with win7. Something that looks like win7 for her is going to be much, much better than having her learn a new interface, especially for an interface where I cannot help her (as I don't plan on upgrading any of my other computers, which I build myself, until Win9, since they're WMC computers, and I don't see win8 being useful for WMC computers).

Speed. Everything is faster and/or hardware accelerated. There is no learning curve. Everything on 7 works the same as 8 (minus some hardware that doesn't have Win 8 drivers). The Desktop tile is all you need. The Start screen can be left alone. I've wiped Win 7 from all 3 of my systems to 8, and I'm not going back.
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post #117 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

Are there any benefits to Win8 over Win7? This laptop is for my wife an to replace an aging Dell with win7. Something that looks like win7 for her is going to be much, much better than having her learn a new interface, especially for an interface where I cannot help her (as I don't plan on upgrading any of my other computers, which I build myself, until Win9, since they're WMC computers, and I don't see win8 being useful for WMC computers).

There are a few benefits like an improved copy and paste dialog, improved task manager, File History, and some others but nothing major. Honestly I wouldn't worry about it either way. For HTPC users their are some concerns with Windows 8 like Media Browser not working.
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post #118 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ctviggen View Post

That's a deal breaker for me. I use a 37 inch monitor at work and have many programs open at once, usually several showing on my display at any time.
I can't see buying win8 just to learn a completely different operating system. I'm going to buy a new laptop very soon with win7 on it, so I don't have to wipe the win8 off the drive.
It shouldn't be a deal breaker. There is no need to use Metro or the "apps" at all. Ive been using Win8 for 3 days now and haven't used Metro at all... well, besides just checking it out to see what it offers. But I have been using Win8 exactly the same as I always have with Win7/XP, and with multiple monitors (3 of them). And just for reference... The main programs I use simultaneously are: Photoshop, 2 Firefox browsers (with like 20 tabs), OpenOffice (Word, Excel), Web editor (HTML/PHP,etc), Notepad, FTP, and WinAmp. I also use Adobe Premiere, FruityLoops and other editing software in my free time, along with everything else I just listed.

For me, Win8 is exactly like Win7. If you were looking over my shoulder right now, you would never know I was using Win8.

But I do understand the fear of it all. If you look back at this thread, I posted and had the same worries and concerns. But after getting it and using it, all of those worries flew out the window. I am glad I made the jump. Because now I use Windows the same as I always have, plus with the added benefit of having the latest and greatest.

Oh, here are a few screen shots:

Multiple windows:



With start menu (Metro not needed):



So yeah, if you are planning on a new laptop, you might as well get Win8 IMO. You will be happy you did (like I was). I was in the same boat as you and would consider myself an extreme power-user.

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post #119 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 01:00 PM
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^^^^^

Pffft, do you really need a start menu replacement? I find it odd to use a start menu now after using 8 constantly, its a vestige of something redundant.
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post #120 of 622 Old 11-04-2012, 01:05 PM
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My wife uses her laptop to watch TV via HD homerun/prime via WMC. I can't remember what the final determination about WMC and Win8 was. Do I need a particular version of Win8? Do I need to buy WMC?

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