Windows 8 - my verdict. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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After spending months with the pre-release versions and a few days with the release versions, here's my verdict in one word.

Verdict: ptooey

Longer verdict: ugh...agh...ouch...wtf...what were they thinking....jesus christ...oh for crying out loud....really?

My personal opinion is that Windows 8 is crap. It's Microsoft's feeble attempt to catch up to the Android and Apple UIs, and they butchered what was good in Windows, and didn't come close to their competitors UIs. I did give them the benefit of doubt, by buying a copy of Pro and the Media Center "pack", but sadly I'll chalk that up as a tax write off.

Since, Microsoft doesn't seem to be listening to their users, what's the common person supposed to do? Why, short their stock, of course! Yes sir, I'm short their stock, as Windows 8 is an unmitigated disaster, and I have no other way to complain to Microsoft.

Good luck Mr Balmer.
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post #2 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 08:38 AM
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It probably doesn't surprise you, but my verdict is almost completely the opposite. See you in ten years down the road, and we'll see who was right.

Geoff Coupe
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post #3 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh, 10 years later is a whole different thing. smile.gif When Windows "9" or whatever they call it, comes out, I'll most certainly reevaluate my stance. But as things stand "now", my opinion is what it is.
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post #4 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by gcoupe View Post

It probably doesn't surprise you, but my verdict is almost completely the opposite. See you in ten years down the road, and we'll see who was right.

+1

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post #5 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gcoupe View Post

It probably doesn't surprise you, but my verdict is almost completely the opposite. See you in ten years down the road, and we'll see who was right.

+1 as well

tired of seeing people poop on win8. like it or not, 99% of the OS is vastly improved and just as intuitive as before, while being faster and smoother. the 1% (WMC) apparently is the same. i dont know because i dont use it.

MetroUI is a good or a bad thing, depending on how you use the OS. on my htpc it is a good thing.
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post #6 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 09:34 AM
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The general pinion that I've seen is that Win 8 kinda sucks at first impression, but longer exposure tends to soften the opinion to the point where people start liking it. I just installed it on one of my PCs and it's a whole new interface to get used to on the surface. Once you get past the Metro layout, it's not all the different from Windows 7 underneath. It just takes some getting used to the new user interface and the way you access things. It's pretty clear that Win 8 was designed for touch screens, such as tablets, but it still works well with a mouse and keyboard.

What I want to know is what genius came up with the name "Charm Bar?" How exactly is it supposed to "charm" me?rolleyes.gif
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post #7 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 09:50 AM
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I bought the Pro disk version and I'm not "feeling it".

My issues mainly stem from drivers on my Macbook Air (no facetime camera, no gestures, no brightness controls, etc) and less with the OS, but there are still problems with the fit and finish of Win8.

For example, it is so jarring to go from Metro to Desktop... for instance, there is a Windows update on Metro and another on desktop. There is IE10 on Metro and IE10 on desktop...
It's almost like the desktop was supposed to be "Win8" and Metro is some sort of HP/Dell/Samsung overlay that immediately gets uninstalled on first boot with the rest of the trial editions.

I really want to buy in to the whole Win8/Wp8/xbox/metro MS philosophy, but it's so weird how you never know if whatever you click will dump you to the desktop. What if I want to go back to Metro...? Now I have a desktop environment that's running programs separate from Metro programs? I found a couple of times where I was looking for a IE window forgetting that I had left that instance running in Metro.

I'll keep the disk around, but I'm not as excited for Win8 as I was a week ago.
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post #8 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Once you get past the Metro layout, it's not all the different from Windows 7 underneath.
Bingo. Exactomundo. Right on target. Eggzactly.

And hence why....the $64,000 question. What exactly was the pressing need for the Metro UI? I don't disagree that the internals are better than Windows 7, to a degree, but this Metro crap kills all those benefits.
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It just takes some getting used to the new user interface and the way you access things.
I don't want to "take some getting used to". I want something that I'm paying for, to be better than what I paid for last time. If it's only marginally better...
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It's pretty clear that Win 8 was designed for touch screens, such as tablets, but it still works well with a mouse and keyboard.
And that's where Microsoft failed. The vast majority of their users don't use tablets and never will (well, that's my prediction). They use a mouse and keyboard, and MS just pissed off that vast majority.
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post #9 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 10:39 AM
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Throw on a start menu replacement app and boot directly to the desktop. That leaves you with a "standard" windows UI that boots faster and runs snappier than Win7. Now that creative has fixed the drivers for my titanium HD, I love Win8. Almost as much as I loved 7 when it launched.
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post #10 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Thrillho View Post

Throw on a start menu replacement app and boot directly to the desktop.

Why would I buy Windows 8 just to install third party addons that make it look like Windows 7 (which I already have) but probably don't work as good?

Last time I played with shell replacements it was a disaster.
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That leaves you with a "standard" windows UI that boots faster and runs snappier than Win7.

Does it? Does a fresh install of Windows 8 really run any faster than a similarly fresh WIndows 7 build?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #11 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 11:17 AM
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I have to ask, why did you need another thread for just stating your opinion without any reasons why? OP could easily have just posted in the current Win 8 thread saying "I don't like it".

I'm curious about MCE. With the Metro UI, is it really necessary? Can't you just put links/tiles to things like a photo app/PowerDVD/MPC-HD/Netflix/whatever? It seems to already be a 10 foot UI, so why the desire to use MCE afterwards? The only advantage I can think of is if you have a fairly large library of movies stored. Maybe someone can just make an app for that?
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post #12 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 11:38 AM
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I've not tried it and willing to give it a chance. I just have one question that I can't seem to find an definitive answer to (have not looked hard yet). Can you use Win8 exactly the same as Win7 in their Desktop "app"? Example:



I've heard that multitasking is a lot harder in Win8, which is why I am asking this question. I normally have a bunch of programs open and if I can't switch through them easily using the taskbar (like in the screenshot), then I will never use Win8.

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post #13 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilpaxim View Post

I'm curious about MCE. With the Metro UI, is it really necessary? Can't you just put links/tiles to things like a photo app/PowerDVD/MPC-HD/Netflix/whatever? It seems to already be a 10 foot UI, so why the desire to use MCE afterwards? The only advantage I can think of is if you have a fairly large library of movies stored. Maybe someone can just make an app for that?
That's what I'd hoped. And Metro certainly has the potential to do that. But I can't think of any reason to use a PC to do any of the things you listed. We pretty much have to use MCE for cable tv, and there's no way to parse that out into metro functions AFAIK. Can you even navigate Metro with an MCE remote? Don't know, never tried, but it would be a good first step. Maybe some of you Win 8 fans could put something useful together and make all us haters eat our words.


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post #14 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

I've heard that multitasking is a lot harder in Win8, which is why I am asking this question. I normally have a bunch of programs open and if I can't switch through them easily using the taskbar (like in the screenshot), then I will never use Win8.
Task "switching" is no problem in Metro. It's having multiple window up at the same time that's the problem. AFAICT, it's not possible in metro because all windows frames and controls are gone. Each app is full screen when you switch to it. In desktop mode, multi-tasking still works fine. But if you have to resort to that, you may as well stick with Win 7.


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post #15 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TeddyP View Post

I've heard that multitasking is a lot harder in Win8, which is why I am asking this question. I normally have a bunch of programs open and if I can't switch through them easily using the taskbar (like in the screenshot), then I will never use Win8.

There's still a taskbar, and you can still run non-Metro apps in Windows. The problem for me is that well first there's no start menu, it's a start screen (which is of no use to me, I don't use anything that supports live tiles, and even if I did, I don't sit there looking at the start screen anyway so it's all a waste). If that were all, then it wouldn't be a big deal. The big thing for me is that there's no telling when you start something if it's going to be a "desktop" app, or a "metro", and if you get into a metro app there's no (obvious) way to close it other than maybe using gestures or something which are entirely counter intuitive with a keyboard/mouse.

The problem for me is that Windows 8 is really two separate OS's, it's a (probably reasonably good) tablet OS, and an somewhat incomplete desktop OS. They moved a lot of settings into Metro, with dumbed-down, tablet-friendly settings/interface.

What it really comes down to for me is Metro is "jarring" and obtrusively inserts itself into my workflow, and there are no benefits to balance that out, there's no super great new feature to justify learning or putting up with Metro.

Now for an HTPC I can see where it could theoretically be nice, but I think that future is a long ways out at this point. Especially when metro apps have to come through the Microsoft app store, so I wouldn't expect to see things like MPC-HC have metro versions anytime soon. I think Microsoft has shown very clearly that they don't understand or care about the HTPC market.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #16 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by snappjay View Post

I bought the Pro disk version and I'm not "feeling it".
My issues mainly stem from drivers on my Macbook Air (no facetime camera, no gestures, no brightness controls, etc) and less with the OS, but there are still problems with the fit and finish of Win8.
For example, it is so jarring to go from Metro to Desktop... for instance, there is a Windows update on Metro and another on desktop. There is IE10 on Metro and IE10 on desktop...
It's almost like the desktop was supposed to be "Win8" and Metro is some sort of HP/Dell/Samsung overlay that immediately gets uninstalled on first boot with the rest of the trial editions.
I really want to buy in to the whole Win8/Wp8/xbox/metro MS philosophy, but it's so weird how you never know if whatever you click will dump you to the desktop. What if I want to go back to Metro...? Now I have a desktop environment that's running programs separate from Metro programs? I found a couple of times where I was looking for a IE window forgetting that I had left that instance running in Metro.
I'll keep the disk around, but I'm not as excited for Win8 as I was a week ago.

You summed it up perfectly with the line I bolded.

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post #17 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 12:21 PM
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i for one notice a large difference in the speed of my computer, in desktop mode, compared to windows 7. i am not sure if the entire os is hardware accelerated or just certain parts, but i believe its making a big difference on my pc. either that or if its not actually accelerated, the whole OS is much faster, more responsive and much smoother than windows 7. and i am comparing a dual core 1.8ghz with a 7200rpm drive and 2 gigs ram to a quad core 2.4ghz with a SSD and 8 gigs of ram. the win8 machine is just faster in every aspect for me..

*edit*

i guess it was everything..

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/133318-windows-8-graphics-microsoft-has-hardware-accelerated-all-the-things
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post #18 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 12:47 PM
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Well I've clean installed 8 on all my systems and I'd recommend everyone switch, especially if you have a modern 7 system. All the improvements - for only $15.
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post #19 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 01:35 PM
 
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I hated the Metro UI for the first few days - and then I noticed I could right click and remove the stupid ones...then I noticed I could right click on a desktop icon and add it to the start menu and it appears on the Metro UI. I now like it.

If you dislike it, simply click the Desktop tile and boom - you are at the desktop. If you want to find a problem, either click in the lower right hand corner to bring up Metro or use the Windows key to do it. Type the name of what you want and there it is. Sure, you might have to select Settings if it not an app...
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post #20 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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We can put lipstick on a pig, but.....you get my point. smile.gif

Metro is an unnecessary distraction and adds (if not reduce) ZERO value to the desktop experience. And that's Microsoft's biggest market. I wish they could have focused on other aspects of the system, instead of this stupid UI battle.
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post #21 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

If you dislike it, simply click the Desktop tile and boom - you are at the desktop.

That's the thing though, you can't avoid Metro. If it was just the start screen it wouldn't be a big deal, it's that they converted every (or most) of the other OS stuff to metro so you never know when you're going to get thrown into fullscreen metroland with no (other than Alt+F4) way to get out.
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If you want to find a problem, either click in the lower right hand corner to bring up Metro or use the Windows key to do it.

I don't think that's what you were going for, but I agree, all you have to do is hit the Windows key or the lower left to find the problem wink.gif
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Type the name of what you want and there it is. Sure, you might have to select Settings if it not an app...

Yup another problem and a step backwards.

It really comes down to this, if I want tablet functionality I'll get a tablet, like a Nexus 10 (which would have a few things I'd actually use). If a tablet doesn't do what I want, I need a laptop/desktop and I don't want or need a tablet OS there.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #22 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

That's the thing though, you can't avoid Metro. If it was just the start screen it wouldn't be a big deal, it's that they converted every (or most) of the other OS stuff to metro so you never know when you're going to get thrown into fullscreen metroland with no (other than Alt+F4) way to get out.
I don't think that's what you were going for, but I agree, all you have to do is hit the Windows key or the lower left to find the problem wink.gif
Yup another problem and a step backwards.
It really comes down to this, if I want tablet functionality I'll get a tablet, like a Nexus 10 (which would have a few things I'd actually use). If a tablet doesn't do what I want, I need a laptop/desktop and I don't want or need a tablet OS there.

Fullscreen metroland is only when you use Metro apps. Nothing else. Everything else is like 7 (just improved).You can still search on the start menu, pin etc.
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post #23 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

It really comes down to this, if I want tablet functionality I'll get a tablet, like a Nexus 10 (which would have a few things I'd actually use). If a tablet doesn't do what I want, I need a laptop/desktop and I don't want or need a tablet OS there.
Nope, what I want is Origami computing. Have a tablet that I can use as a tablet, and then plug into multiple monitors and use keyboard/mouse as my desktop. I have the possibility of doing this with a Windows 8 device. Can't do it with iPad and other such devices.

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Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

Fullscreen metroland is only when you use Metro apps. Nothing else.
Or basic OS tasks like log off (which is now in a completely different place from power options).
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Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

Everything else is like 7 (just improved).You can still search on the start menu, pin etc.
Having to perform extra steps to do the same thing you used to in less time/steps is not "improved".
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post #25 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

Fullscreen metroland is only when you use Metro apps. Nothing else. Everything else is like 7 (just improved).You can still search on the start menu, pin etc.

Did they change that from release preview? I ended up in metroland quite a bit trying to change settings and the like in release preview. As far as startscreen search, yeah, but it doesn't work as good as it does in 7.
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Nope, what I want is Origami computing. Have a tablet that I can use as a tablet, and then plug into multiple monitors and use keyboard/mouse as my desktop. I have the possibility of doing this with a Windows 8 device. Can't do it with iPad and other such devices.

I can see the appeal, the Surface Pro sounded pretty cool when it was first announced. But thinking about it more, I want a pretty high powered PC for editing/developing my digital photos (right now it's an i7 920 with 12GB of ram and a 256GB SSD) and whatever else I want to do, there's no way a tablet is going to have that much power. Or if it did, it wouldn't really be a tablet and have tablet-like battery life and lightness. For me a tablet (eg Surface Pro) would be a pretty big sacrifice to replace my desktop and something as powerful as my desktop wouldn't work well as a portable device.

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #26 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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What I find "mind boggling" is the sheer audacity of the decision makers at Microsoft, who think Metro is somehow useful/needed/required/wanted/whatever for DESKTOP USERS. If they want to make a shiny new Apple like UI for "tabletic devices", create a freaking separate SKU/build and leave the crap out of the base build.

I can see this whole Surface thing going down the same path as Microsoft's webtv deal. We all remember how that ended. Microsoft seems to be forgetting what it's good at, and is grasping at straws to appease Wall St.
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post #27 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 03:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

That's the thing though, you can't avoid Metro. If it was just the start screen it wouldn't be a big deal, it's that they converted every (or most) of the other OS stuff to metro so you never know when you're going to get thrown into fullscreen metroland with no (other than Alt+F4) way to get out.

It IS the start screen. You click the Desktop tile and you are out of the start screen and onto the desktop. It really is that easy. If you want to use Diablo III (and that is the reason you are going to the desktop), just add D3 to the Metro and click it instead of going to the desktop and double clicking it. It really is that easy.

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I don't think that's what you were going for, but I agree, all you have to do is hit the Windows key or the lower left to find the problem wink.gif

Heh, meant Program.
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Yup another problem and a step backwards.

Why is it a problem? You either manually hunt down your program or you just type its name. If you start typing and backspace the letters away, you get to see all the programs you have and you can still manually hunt them down as before.
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It really comes down to this, if I want tablet functionality I'll get a tablet, like a Nexus 10 (which would have a few things I'd actually use). If a tablet doesn't do what I want, I need a laptop/desktop and I don't want or need a tablet OS there.

The same type of thing was said when the GUI was added to the OS...people decried it as a problem, slowing down the system, dumbing things down, not meant for "real" users, etc. Now even UNIX has a GUI.
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post #28 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 03:03 PM
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I upgraded this weekend.

I don't mind the UI, I mean it looks nice and all, but these are my 2 issues with it.

1) The UI is useless until ALL applications are "native" to Windowss 8. If I click on an application within that UI (Windows Media Center, for example) it takes me completely out of that UI into the "classic" desktop. Then, if I want to go back into the new UI, I have to click/keyboard press to get back into it to either look at that UI, and/or launch another application from it. ...............What's the point then? Why wouldn't I just stay on the classic desktop to eliminate that 1 extra step? I'm going to have all of those shortcuts on my classic desktop, but I'm going to click back into the new UI just so I can click on the shortcut from there? What? It just doesn't work. The new UI doesn't make sense to use until ALL applications work directly inside it, and I'm not 100% sure that will ever even happen.
2) Why do I even care about all the new things that the UI adds? There's an "app" that has an actively updating tile for new emails, new IM's, calendar reminders, and status updates? Oh hey guess what? My phone that's sitting right next to me does all of those EXACT same things, and if I'm doing something on the PC, I'm betting that I will look to my phone before I go back to that UI and out of the program I'm messing with. Or my iPad.

If MS "invented" all of the functions of this UI, it would be brilliant. As it stands, they're just adding these functions to one more in a long line of places that we already utilize them. It visually looks nice, for the most part. But I'm just not seeing the point to most of it beyond "Well every device does this stuff, PC's better start doing them too."
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post #29 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 03:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Or basic OS tasks like log off (which is now in a completely different place from power options). Having to perform extra steps to do the same thing you used to in less time/steps is not "improved".

Instead of going to the lower left, clicking Start, clicking Shutdown, then clicking which kind you want, you go to the lower or upper right to activate the charm (slide out panel), click Config, Click Shutdown, then click which kind you want. Same number of steps.
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post #30 of 622 Old 10-29-2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Instead of going to the lower left, clicking Start, clicking Shutdown, then clicking which kind you want, you go to the lower or upper right to activate the charm (slide out panel), click Config, Click Shutdown, then click which kind you want. Same number of steps.
I no longer have Win8 on a machine at the moment so I can't verify but going by Server 2012:

  1. Move mouse to top/bottom right to display charm.
  2. Move mouse to middle right and click Settings charm.
  3. Move mouse to bottom right and click Power.
  4. Click Shut Down.


According to your instructions for Win8 (which I will verify later tonight)
  1. Move mouse to top/bottom right to display charm.
  2. Click Config charm.
  3. Click Shutdown.
  4. Click desired Shut Down option.


Win7:
  1. Click Start.
  2. Click Shut Down.


So no... not the same number of steps (and much less mouse movement). And that's only one example.
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