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post #3631 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by techmattr View Post
If the card is detected it's only going to run x4. You have two PCIe 3.0 slots that function in dual x8 capacity and one PCIe 2.0 slot at x4.

If you're going to spend that kind of money on a motherboard I certainly wouldn't get an ASRock. I'd go with a proven board like the X9DAX-7F-O. If you're going to do it.... do it right.
Link me.

I can use my 4770k in it ?

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post #3632 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 07:04 AM
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Link me.

I can use my 4770k in it ?
Of course not It's dual socket 2011.

SuperBiiz $709.99

Honestly though when I need more than 16 drives in my media server I'll just switch out the 8 port cards for 16 port cards and start using 6TB or larger drives.
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post #3633 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok that is an option (the bigger cards)

Suggestions for cards that do more than 8 drives (budget) [reasonable priced] ?

I could swap one out. Really I don't think x4 speed would be all that bad. What is the max speed of x4 ? Would 8 7200rpm drives that average 110mb/sec saturate that? How badly ?
I guess I could just run the 3rd card x4.

What I really should do is sell off my server (minus drives) preconfigured to someone that wants it, capitalize on my sweat equity setting it up for someone that desired that, and use the money to step up to full enterprise level hardware. I just hate scrapping all that cash- I have a decent amount invested in my server (even with great deals I have gotten)

I think a mobo swap makes the most sense when I upgrade my desktop, and hand down the 4770k. Something with a card built in, or enough PCI slots. I basically need 8/8/8/8 for a long term strategy so I might need either a socket 2011 or just upgrade my PCI card.

I don't need 20 more drives, but I would like to run 4-8 more. My drives are too new to start swapping them out. I have never even done an RMA on any of them yet.

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post #3634 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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the 850pro is almost double the price of the evo, but also has a 10 year warranty. its supposed to have very consistent throughput. i ordered 2 840 pros for my new workstation as raid0. the next morning heard about the 850 pros. cancelled the order and got the 850pro preordered.
for htpc, i think evo would be fine, higher capacity at lower cost.
PRO!!

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Hey guys,

Thought this was not HTPC related and you guys seem inline technically with the way i like to go.
I am building a new workstation with a 4790k and a bunch of SSDs. I was thinking of Raid 0 for two 256GB Samsung 850 Pros for OS/apps, a 256GB Intel 530 SSD for files and apps and a 3GB hdd for storage backup.
I know benchmarks show the improvement in Raid 0, but now i am not sure what to do. Should i do that or get a single 512GB 850 pro instead?

I am a speed freak. I will find a way to complain about 10GHz CPU with 100GB ram. Just wondering if its worth the trouble or raid 0.

thanks.

RAID 0 for sure has a noticeable increase in speed, in some cases double.

The major reason why it's good is because with old SATA3 tech a fast SSD like those Sammy PRO will indeed saturate a sata3 port. That means you hit a limit in speed there, so RAID 0 is able to get around that limit by scaling across multiple SATA3 ports and essentially spreading out the bandwidth across them. For this reason you don't really need super fast SSD in RAID 0 - it's better still, but not super important. 4 cheap SSD's in RAID 0 should be faster than a single Samsung PRO. As you go with faster SSD you get better performance in the small areas like random writes and reads and all that stuff- basically the controller is the difference there. The NAND being faster in the PRO is a bonus too.

I'd say do the RAID 0. But set up a backup plan so you can recover or restore easily. There is many option here, but if you can use something like crash plan or you can use something like a server - or even if you do manually on a non RAID drive and create a back up you should be ok. I find RAID 0 on SSD actually very reliable myself, I know technically my odds of failure are twice as higher because either drive can crash and I lose. As you add drives your risk increases, so 4 drive array any one of the 4 drives fails you lose. But even still I never seem to have trouble with this. SSD are reliable. I don't have any failures, and I use old cheap drives. I am running a 4 x 120GB right now in my desktop.

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post #3635 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 09:34 AM
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thanks. here is one more follow up then:

For this build, i am looking at the Asus Z97i-Plus This motherboard has 4 SATA ports.
Port 1 and 2 would be used for the RAID0 for OS.
Port 3 would be for the 3rd SSD, and the 4th for the HDD.

I don't have the motherboard yet, but was looking through the manual. I saw this in the raid setup section: Due to chipset limitation, when SATA ports are set to RAID mode, all SATA ports run at RAID mode together.

Does that mean all 4 drives will end up being in the raid array? Or do I just add 2 to the raid array and leave the other 2 out and OS will run them as independent drives but still in RAID mode, not AHCI? If the 2nd is accurate, will changing the 3rd or 4th drive break the array, screwing it all up? Last time i tried raid was over 12 years ago.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #3636 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 09:37 AM
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That just means you can't run 2 drives in AHCI mode and 2 drives in RAID mode. You can configure whatever drives you want in the array configuration utility pre Windows boot. AHCI mode doesn't matter when you're running RAID since RAID mode has all of the benefits of AHCI mode and even uses the same drivers in the OS. The only utility that sees the difference is Samsung's Magician software and it will still apply all the optimizations anyway.
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post #3637 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Ok that is an option (the bigger cards)

Suggestions for cards that do more than 8 drives (budget) [reasonable priced] ?
9201-16i

Newegg has a decent price on these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118142

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That just means you can't run 2 drives in AHCI mode and 2 drives in RAID mode. You can configure whatever drives you want in the array configuration utility pre Windows boot. AHCI mode doesn't matter when you're running RAID since RAID mode has all of the benefits of AHCI mode and even uses the same drivers in the OS. The only utility that sees the difference is Samsung's Magician software and it will still apply all the optimizations anyway.
perfect, thanks. i still have the flexibility with this motherboard then.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #3639 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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perfect, thanks. i still have the flexibility with this motherboard then.
Make sure you get a motherboard with at least 2 more SATA ports than you need. That is my advice. RAID 0 arrays eat them up.

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post #3640 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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9201-16i

Newegg has a decent price on these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118142
$369 !

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post #3641 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 10:28 AM
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Make sure you get a motherboard with at least 2 more SATA ports than you need. That is my advice. RAID 0 arrays eat them up.
mini itx build in a node 304. not too many options for z97 boards.
I like the ASUS boards. 4 ports: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813132122
The MSI boards have weird socket position which will mess with larger noctua coolers
I just saw a gigabyte with 6 ports. will have to check out reviews: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128720
2nd gigabyte with 5 ports: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128719

i have a 20TB server, so 4 with the ASUS for the workstation will be ok i think.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #3642 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 11:34 AM
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$369 !
Well, don't forget the 9211-8i is actually $200~$250. The only reason you can get them so cheap on eBay is because they come in almost every default Dell or IBM server build and often times aren't used... so they get dumped on eBay for a few quick bucks. The 16 port cards are less common. Typically if you need that much storage you're purchasing a dedicated storage device. So there is little real world practical use for a 16 (or more) port HBA outside of a media server...
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post #3643 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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OK need some quick help...

Working on HTPC I built my buddy. It's got a 3TB in it full of movies. It would not boot when I got it, just a blinking light. After swapping out SSD for another I decided to try the old one when I noticed in BIOS the boot order was wrong. Sure enough.. it boots right back up! Nice.

But- the D drive (3TB ) is showing as RAW. I can format it, but I don't want to do that. It is full of movies and TV shows.

Ideas how to fix this ? Or why it happened?

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post #3644 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 01:14 PM
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The only way that is going to happen is if it's no longer on the controller it was formatted on... or if you switch from IDE to AHCI (essentially a different controller at that point) or if the partition was manually deleted. I'm pretty sure you already know most branded external drives have their own controller and they often don't work when you move them internally.
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post #3645 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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It basically fixed itself. I ran chk dsk and restarted and the drive came back. The the intel software said a disk was disconnected on port 0 or whatever port it really was... then it was raw again.

Rebooted. Same. Ran it again and rebooted it was back.

Any ideas the problem ? PSU? or the HDD itself? Or the Sata Cable ? Or the Sata controller/mobo ?

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The only way that is going to happen is if it's no longer on the controller it was formatted on... or if you switch from IDE to AHCI (essentially a different controller at that point) or if the partition was manually deleted. I'm pretty sure you already know most branded external drives have their own controller and they often don't work when you move them internally.
It is internal. I shucked it and formatted it clean when I built this machine for him. He wanted a HTPC for $200 so I did my best. Honestly this machine is a SH!T SHOW... lol.

It's a old school H61 board (no sata 3) but with the cheapo sata 3 upgrade dual ports from a third party. It has a 60GB Vertex in it, a G530 CPU, one stick of 4GB ddr1066. A 7200.14 3tb for storage. And the PSU is.. wait for it....

One of those I shucked from a case that came with PSU, i think the case and PSU cost like $29 together. I hate machines like this... so much crap it's tough to shovel through it. I wonder if it's a bad HDD, a bad PSU just crapping out, or something else. Thoughts?


The HDD seems to be losing power or connection while the PC is running... it appears that anyways. On reboot I am able to recover and get the HDD to show again. The HDD seems to work ok.. I can copy and paste to it (until it disconnects).

I just swapped out the Sata cable, and moved it to the third party sata 3 port. It seems to be better now.. but who knows ??? The PSU is so crappy I almost want to just blame it. It's crappy enough to deserve the blame even if it's innocent. lol.

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post #3646 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 01:42 PM
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It basically fixed itself. I ran chk dsk and restarted and the drive came back. The the intel software said a disk was disconnected on port 0 or whatever port it really was... then it was raw again.

Rebooted. Same. Ran it again and rebooted it was back.

Any ideas the problem ? PSU? or the HDD itself? Or the Sata Cable ? Or the Sata controller/mobo ?
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It is internal. I shucked it and formatted it clean when I built this machine for him. He wanted a HTPC for $200 so I did my best. Honestly this machine is a SH!T SHOW... lol.

It's a old school H61 board (no sata 3) but with the cheapo sata 3 upgrade dual ports from a third party. It has a 60GB Vertex in it, a G530 CPU, one stick of 4GB ddr1066. A 7200.14 3tb for storage. And the PSU is.. wait for it....

One of those I shucked from a case that came with PSU, i think the case and PSU cost like $29 together. I hate machines like this... so much crap it's tough to shovel through it. I wonder if it's a bad HDD, a bad PSU just crapping out, or something else. Thoughts?
Start swapping. It's rare for a controller to go bad like that or even components on a motherboard in general. Even if it is some crappy ASMedia or something.

The most likely to fail in that machine are PSU, SSD, HDD, RAM, motherboard, CPU. In that order according to the parts listed. The most likely according the symptoms would be the HDD or PSU. It's symptomatic of a controller failure but I still doubt that's the issue.

Oh yea... then you have stupid scenarios like a bad SATA cable....
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post #3647 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 01:48 PM
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One of those I shucked from a case that came with PSU, i think the case and PSU cost like $29 together
Lolz, I put one of those together, but I paid $40 for it like a sucker since it was gift time and I couldn't wait for a sale. The one I bought was the raidmax atx-mid tower with a raidmax 400W psu. The PSU is ridonculously loud to me, but fortunately nobody else seems to notice. Still goes strong, but they only use it as a PlexHT-openelec machine to share my server (boots from a thumb drive) so the only things that need to keep working are the psu, ram, and usb
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Lolz, I put one of those together, but I paid $40 for it like a sucker since it was gift time and I couldn't wait for a sale. The one I bought was the raidmax atx-mid tower with a raidmax 400W psu. The PSU is ridonculously loud to me, but fortunately nobody else seems to notice. Still goes strong, but they only use it as a PlexHT-openelec machine to share my server (boots from a thumb drive) so the only things that need to keep working are the psu, ram, and usb
lulz. This PSU literally does not have a brand on it. Basically you can go to Newegg and click on normal PC cases... sort by cheapest (and check off includes PSU) and the cheapest one there is a little bit better than the one I stole this PSU from.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811148044

I am pretty sure this one ^ is better.

lol.

But although I want to blame it, could it be something else ?

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The last time I used one of those PSUs was in a re-purpose build for my dad. I went to their house one night for dinner and he asked me to come to his office. I walk in his office and he asks "what's the computer doing?" I look over at the computer and little fire balls were coming out of the back of it and it was making loud popping noises. I said "I think it's committing suicide." The paint on the wall behind it started turning black so we turned it off. Hilarious that it was still at the desktop and performing fine though. Aside from the fireballs.
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post #3650 of 3660 Old Yesterday, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The last time I used one of those PSUs was in a re-purpose build for my dad. I went to their house one night for dinner and he asked me to come to his office. I walk in his office and he asks "what's the computer doing?" I look over at the computer and little fire balls were coming out of the back of it and it was making loud popping noises. I said "I think it's committing suicide." The paint on the wall behind it started turning black so we turned it off. Hilarious that it was still at the desktop and performing fine though. Aside from the fireballs.

lol. Crappy PSU's are awesome. I know they should suck... but for some reason sometimes they defy all expectations and do not.

I usually consult johnny guru for PSU info, they seem to be the best and most thorough review site for really telling it like it is about PSU. You rarely see pro review sites hammer a product and then exclaim it sucks, but johnny guru loves doing that.

Want to laugh hard?

Read a few:

Death of a Gutless Wonder III: The Labors of Hercules
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=324

Death of a Gutless Wonder V: Uncool to the Max:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=379

Death of a Gutless Wonder IV: Aces Low
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=335

Here is a very recent review of the Coolermaster (very popular) model:
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=386

They trashed it

I love their reviews I always laugh, but I also know when PSU is good because they are equally good at the high end stuff.

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Is BTRFS ready for prime-time in this application? I was thinking about a Solaris ZFS RaidZ2 solution but Solaris has such a small hardware base while Linux works with nearly everything.
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I usually consult johnny guru for PSU info, they seem to be the best and most thorough review site for really telling it like it is about PSU. You rarely see pro review sites hammer a product and then exclaim it sucks, but johnny guru loves doing that.
Yep, best PSU reviews around. Those guys know there stuff

Also it's Jonny not Johnny
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$369 !
Keep the IBM card for your expansion case, sell off the 2 Dell cards. Use the 9201-16i for your main server case.


Bandwidth wise, running a m1015 at 4x won't be any different than running a 9201-16i at 8x. So you don't need to buy anything, unless your wanting a 16 bay expansion case.

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The last time I used one of those PSUs was in a re-purpose build for my dad. I went to their house one night for dinner and he asked me to come to his office. I walk in his office and he asks "what's the computer doing?" I look over at the computer and little fire balls were coming out of the back of it and it was making loud popping noises. I said "I think it's committing suicide." The paint on the wall behind it started turning black so we turned it off. Hilarious that it was still at the desktop and performing fine though. Aside from the fireballs.
I seem to always get invited to someones house for dinner when little fireballs are coming out the back.

Did you ask your father how long has it been spitting fireballs?

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Is BTRFS ready for prime-time in this application? I was thinking about a Solaris ZFS RaidZ2 solution but Solaris has such a small hardware base while Linux works with nearly everything.
That's why there is FreeBSD.
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I seem to always get invited to someones house for dinner when little fireballs are coming out the back.

Did you ask your father how long has it been spitting fireballs?
lol. It started doing that just a minute or so before we got there for dinner. If it had done it before he never saw it in action. At the time I built him a new one with quality parts.... now he just uses a laptop with an external drive and a tablet for every day use. Plus they have a Synology for backups that syncs with my Synology.
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post #3657 of 3660 Old Today, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by techmattr View Post
lol. It started doing that just a minute or so before we got there for dinner. If it had done it before he never saw it in action.
You sure it wasn't this PSU: http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=324

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post #3658 of 3660 Old Today, 08:12 AM
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Haha. This thing was way older than that. There were no labels on this thing of any kind. No idea why I thought it was OK to use in a system.....
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post #3659 of 3660 Old Today, 10:09 AM
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Not having the time to read all these pages of posts I apologize in advance if this has already been discussed...

Linux software raid is more than adequate for home playback. It's cheap, but most importantly it's the easiest to recover. I have done several reinstalls of the OS, and an entire PC replacement (except for the system drive). When I booted up the new hardware, it all just worked like it did on the old hardware.

Using special hardware and controllers can put you at risk when things break...

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post #3660 of 3660 Old Today, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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You are talking about unraid ? Or something more advanced?

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