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post #4471 of 4498 Old 05-13-2015, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NNate View Post
I bought a new 4TB drive I want to add as a DRU to my Cruise Control Raid-F setup. It'll be an empty disk.

Currently I have 2x4TB PPUs, so no issue there.

If I add the disk, will it need to do a full parity recalc? If so, maybe this is a good time to switch to Expert Mode as @Quaraxkad is a much bigger fan of? I feel like I have a full grasp on all the concepts now, but I just hate to mess with something that's working smoothly. The first few weeks were painful in dealing with Verify/Validate failures.

It should just copy the old ppu.
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post #4472 of 4498 Old 05-13-2015, 11:01 AM
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Which FlexRaid are most people using here, tRAID or RAID-F?

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post #4473 of 4498 Old 05-28-2015, 06:00 AM
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Fry's is having a one day sale today on Seagate 6tb for $159
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post #4474 of 4498 Old 05-28-2015, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Link ? Or in store only ?
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post #4475 of 4498 Old 05-28-2015, 10:49 AM
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post #4476 of 4498 Old 06-29-2015, 12:45 PM
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Trying to search for something in this thread is an exercise in frustration, so I'm going to ask this for the umpteenth time. As of this month, what SATA expansion cards are recommended by you guys? I'm not talking about those SAS expanders (or whatever they're called). I have a fairly large case that I've been using for my server (WHS 2011). I currently have four, three gig drives in there, plus smaller system drive (containing two partitions). I plan on removing the smaller drive and replacing it with an SSD, so to replace the lost partition, I hope to add another 3 or 4 GB drive. I am out of SATA ports though.

I think I have room for two more drives. In any case, it's not in the cards to replace the case this year (I meant to do that!). My next goal will be to add pooling.

Thanks.

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post #4477 of 4498 Old 06-29-2015, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebo View Post
Trying to search for something in this thread is an exercise in frustration, so I'm going to ask this for the umpteenth time. As of this month, what SATA expansion cards are recommended by you guys? I'm not talking about those SAS expanders (or whatever they're called). I have a fairly large case that I've been using for my server (WHS 2011). I currently have four, three gig drives in there, plus smaller system drive (containing two partitions). I plan on removing the smaller drive and replacing it with an SSD, so to replace the lost partition, I hope to add another 3 or 4 GB drive. I am out of SATA ports though.
I believe the popular options are (still) either a Plug'n'Play HBA Card such as this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-792-_-Product

Or search the Bay for a (potentially cheaper) IBM m1015, or Dell h310 card and flash them to IT mode. The price of the m1015 cards have crept up to about the same price as the SuperMicro Card I listed. The SuperMicro card might even be worth the premium to not have to deal with flashing the card.

Any of them will allow an additional 8 drives off the two SAS ports, along with some breakout cables.

Robnix said in another post he was going to list a couple of m1015 cards in the classifieds tomorrow, already flashed.

Quote:
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Just in case there's any interest, I have 12 4TB drives for sale in the classifeids, and 2 IT Flashed M1015 cards that I'll be posting tomorrow.


Last edited by wiley165; 06-29-2015 at 01:26 PM.
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post #4478 of 4498 Old 06-29-2015, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leebo View Post
Trying to search for something in this thread is an exercise in frustration, so I'm going to ask this for the umpteenth time. As of this month, what SATA expansion cards are recommended by you guys? I'm not talking about those SAS expanders (or whatever they're called). I have a fairly large case that I've been using for my server (WHS 2011). I currently have four, three gig drives in there, plus smaller system drive (containing two partitions). I plan on removing the smaller drive and replacing it with an SSD, so to replace the lost partition, I hope to add another 3 or 4 GB drive. I am out of SATA ports though.

I think I have room for two more drives. In any case, it's not in the cards to replace the case this year (I meant to do that!). My next goal will be to add pooling.

Thanks.

Signature edited to appease the OCD's
If you're talking about SATA Port Multipliers (the SATA equivalent of SAS Expanders) I wouldn't bother for a single drive. More trouble than it's worth. Unluess you're also out of expansion slots on your motherboard, throw a cheap (sub $30) PCIe x1 SATA card in and be done with it. I've had good luck with the Silicon Image based cards, but pretty much any of them should work. Marvell is also used on motherboards with extra sata ports so those should be good too.

I wouldn't bother with any of those 8 port cards that everyone one here uses unless you plan on upgrading everything else later. They are way overkill for just adding a single drive.
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RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #4479 of 4498 Old 06-29-2015, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
If you're talking about SATA Port Multipliers (the SATA equivalent of SAS Expanders) I wouldn't bother for a single drive. More trouble than it's worth. Unluess you're also out of expansion slots on your motherboard, throw a cheap (sub $30) PCIe x1 SATA card in and be done with it. I've had good luck with the Silicon Image based cards, but pretty much any of them should work. Marvell is also used on motherboards with extra sata ports so those should be good too.

I wouldn't bother with any of those 8 port cards that everyone one here uses unless you plan on upgrading everything else later. They are way overkill for just adding a single drive.
Yes, my apologies if I was not clear enough (though I did say no SAS cards). I just want to add one or two more drives, and I'm out of SATA ports. I have no use for 8 more SATA ports, not until I decide to replace my case (if ever).

Thanks for the input. That's exactly what I was looking for.

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post #4480 of 4498 Old 07-25-2015, 11:33 PM
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How do you back up one of these things? Spend the big bucks to build a duplicate and pay to colo it offsite? Don't bother and pray your parity system will save you?
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post #4481 of 4498 Old 07-26-2015, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bizwig View Post
How do you back up one of these things? Spend the big bucks to build a duplicate and pay to colo it offsite? Don't bother and pray your parity system will save you?
How do you backup your BluRay collection?

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #4482 of 4498 Old 07-31-2015, 05:46 AM
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does anyone know how to properly setup email notification in flexraid using gmail?

HTPC are awesome get one today!
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post #4483 of 4498 Old 07-31-2015, 10:04 AM
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does anyone know how to properly setup email notification in flexraid using gmail?
It's working for me with my gmail account. Open the System Control Panel and go to Notifications.

On the email tab:
Options: I checked all of the boxes (Active, SMART, SSL, TLS)
Host: smtp.gmail.com
Port: 465
Username: your gmail address
Password: your gmail password
Sender: Your gmail address
Recipient: the email address you want to send notifications to

In the lower options section I checked everything "On Success" and "On Failure".
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post #4484 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 02:05 PM
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Finally posted the HBA's if anyone's interested.

2 X 92xx Cards IT Mode Flashed

Looky here!
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post #4485 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
How do you backup your BluRay collection?
If you bought your Bluray your backup is the disc isn't it?

Looky here!
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post #4486 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 02:23 PM
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If you bought your Bluray your backup is the disc isn't it?
Obviously based on my signature I'm a big fan of making proper backups when warranted, but it never ceases to amaze me, the number of people on here that simply can't accept that other people don't care if their media collection is backed up.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #4487 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 02:50 PM
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Obviously based on my signature I'm a big fan of making proper backups when warranted, but it never ceases to amaze me, the number of people on here that simply can't accept that other people don't care if their media collection is backed up.
I do backup important documents and family photos but there's no way I'm spending the money to backup 40TB of music, movies and tv shows. Ain't gonna happen.
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post #4488 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 03:23 PM
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I do backup important documents and family photos but there's no way I'm spending the money to backup 40TB of music, movies and tv shows. Ain't gonna happen.
This is sort of the boat I am in. I have all the discs (save perhaps 1 or 2 of the Disney animations that my kids abused the disc playing too often). That means I do have a complete backup of my library, more or less. On the other hand, I'm not keen about spending the amount of time necessary to re-rip my library, after I finally figure out which discs need to be re-ripped on a failed drive.

When I put my system together, the 8 TB drives were still out on the horizon somewhere and the 6 TB drives were still charging a premium price per TB. That meant buying a truck-load of 4 TB drives. In order to decrease the chances of having to re-rip an entire drive, I used redundancy. No, it is not a substitute for a true backup, but it does act as a nice security blanket against loss of data and valuable time. If I were building the server today, I would be buying 8 TB drives and would, instead of having two parity drives, have a complete mirror/backup of my server and call it done. The price would be a tad steep for having 6 drives doing backup work, but given that I would be using at least one of those drives as a parity disk, that means only 5 "extra" drives as a one-time cost during the building of the server.

The price for a true backup, even of massive libraries is coming down in a hurry. The up-front expense can be a bit steep, but if it is rolled into the initial cost of a project, it is not as bad. Then, it's just a matter of keeping up with space on a 1:1 basis. Most folks I know that are at that 40 TB server level are down to adding 1- 2 TB of "permanent" media storage per year. Suddenly, even "small(ish)" drives can absorb multiple years of media additions.

Parity/redundancy is a nice compromise between cost and backup security though. I cannot imagine a collection that size without at least parity being used in an attempt to offset some of the threat to having to re-rip a substantial number (possibly many hundreds) of discs.
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post #4489 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by pm240sx View Post
does anyone know how to properly setup email notification in flexraid using gmail?

i had an issue using gmail all of a sudden. brahim provided more info:

http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php/....html#msg29836

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #4490 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 04:04 PM
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Most folks I know that are at that 40 TB server level are down to adding 1- 2 TB of "permanent" media storage per year. Suddenly, even "small(ish)" drives can absorb multiple years of media additions.
I decided a while back I won't be adding any more HDDs to increase storage space. I've been keeping about 1TB of free space on the pool drive for the past 6 months or so. When I want to put something new on the server I delete something else to make room. I have one new spare HDD on the shelf but that will only be put into service when I need to rebuild the data of a failed DRU.
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post #4491 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Aryn Ravenlocke View Post
If I were building the server today, I would be buying 8 TB drives and would, instead of having two parity drives, have a complete mirror/backup of my server and call it done. The price would be a tad steep for having 6 drives doing backup work, but given that I would be using at least one of those drives as a parity disk, that means only 5 "extra" drives as a one-time cost during the building of the server.
That's arguably insufficient. If all you do is hang the backup drives off the same server your backup becomes subject to your primary's failures of cpu, disk controllers, or memory. If you're using zfs or btrfs each set of disks still need their own parity drives.

There is also the matter of external threats i.e. fire, flood, lightning, and theft that argue your backup shouldn't be in the same place as the primary.

The extra redundancy of a second physical server may not be economically justifiable however.

Last edited by bizwig; 08-12-2015 at 04:15 PM.
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post #4492 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 05:22 PM
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That's arguably insufficient. If all you do is hang the backup drives off the same server your backup becomes subject to your primary's failures of cpu, disk controllers, or memory. If you're using zfs or btrfs each set of disks still need their own parity drives.

There is also the matter of external threats i.e. fire, flood, lightning, and theft that argue your backup shouldn't be in the same place as the primary.

The extra redundancy of a second physical server may not be economically justifiable however.
I'm not using zfs or btrfs. I could very easily make a mirror without any sort of parity. Agreed, a "proper" backup is off property. That sort of backup is overkill in my case. If I have the sort of catastrophic event that only an off-property backup could protect me from, I have much bigger worries/concerns on my hands than my media server. Also, I have sufficient insurance that, I would likely reinvest the payoff in a new approach and switch my entire library to Kaleidescape. Sure, I would loose about 1,000 movies that way (the older DVDs never transferred to BD and out of print), but either I still have the discs (and can still make a small setup work), or they were lost in the catastrophe as well and I'm out those movies regardless.

In order to have a "proper" off-site b/u, I wold not only have to have a second full server, I would have to have some place to set it up. I don't own a second home, so it seems unlikely that I would have such a space. I could invest time and money into a solution like Backblaze or one of their competitors. I looked into that when I built the system I currently have. Running 24/7/365, backing up my library was going to take roughly 18 months, and that was before I added the last 5 TB. That's just not a feasible solution. Nor would it be practical once it came time to do a full server restoration, as the service speeds just are not equipped to handle multiple TB load service to a single account.
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post #4493 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 05:25 PM
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I decided a while back I won't be adding any more HDDs to increase storage space. I've been keeping about 1TB of free space on the pool drive for the past 6 months or so. When I want to put something new on the server I delete something else to make room. I have one new spare HDD on the shelf but that will only be put into service when I need to rebuild the data of a failed DRU.
A mate of mine has taken the same approach. I'm not sure how much free space he has left on his rig, but I know it is about what he determined would be a year's worth of growth for him. Now, he just rotates media out as he adds something, but has the space available for wiggle-room in case something truly momentous comes along.
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post #4494 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 07:27 PM
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That's arguably insufficient.
And the point I was trying to make was that what is sufficient for one person may not be for someone else. Neither is wrong, just people have different tolerance levels for things like this.

When people used to ask me about backing up their personal data (usually after they'd already lost data due to lack of backup) I'd make some recommendations and they'd usually follow it up with "but that's so expensive" and I'd reply "What would you pay to get that data back if you lost it?" and they'd realize the value of keeping that data backed up. But that was data that either represented tons of work that couldn't be recreated easily or sentimental things that were irreplaceable.

If I asked that same question to people with dozens of terabytes of bluray rips, I'd get a pretty wide array of answers ranging to hundreds maybe thousands of dollars, down to zero. None of those answers are wrong, and they just represent the worth of having that data online because in most cases we're talking about people that own the blurays in the first place. They've lot some time and effort to rip the blurays, but nothing irreplaceable.

If somebody is comfortable keeping their backup set physically connected to the same server, I say let 'em. If they're comfortable not having a backup set, I say let 'em. If they're comfortable running single instead of multiple parity, I say let 'em. If they want to run without parity at all, then I say let 'em. If they want to just get a stack of external drives perched on a rickety shelf (with the aquarium, right above the server) plugged into some old knob-and-tube wiring that's had a penny jammed in where the fuse goes, I say let 'em.

Might you want to educate them on the benefits of using an offline, offsite backup rotation, in addition to relying on whatever parity or mirroring solution they're using? Absolutely! Nothing wrong with educating people, but let 'em make their own decisions.
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post #4495 of 4498 Old 08-12-2015, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post
I do backup important documents and family photos but there's no way I'm spending the money to backup 40TB of music, movies and tv shows. Ain't gonna happen.
Of course not, because for most people the benefit of doing that doesn't come anywhere close to offsetting the cost. I've got at least 3 copies of any important data at any given time, but I have dozens of terabytes of data that I don't bother to backup. I'm aware of the risks. If you are too then I say more power to ya.

RAID protection is only for failed drives. That's it. It's no replacement for a proper backup.
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post #4496 of 4498 Old 08-17-2015, 06:40 AM
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Now that I'm expanding my server into a second 24-bay case, I have a question... I've got an extra HBA with external SAS ports to pass through to the second case. The second case is empty except for a power supply and drives. Is there such a thing as an expansion port cover with SAS pass through ports, so I can plug in a short external SAS cable between the HBA and the second case back panel, and then an internal SAS to SATA breakout cable inside the second case? I haven't been able to find anything like that, I don't know if it exists or where to find it.

EDIT: OK, that turned out to be easier to find than I thought... As soon as I posted I realized I should just search for "8088 8087".... And I found exactly what I'm looking for on Amazon.

Last edited by Quaraxkad; 08-17-2015 at 06:44 AM.
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post #4497 of 4498 Old 08-23-2015, 07:00 PM
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Finally posted the HBA's if anyone's interested.

2 X 92xx Cards IT Mode Flashed
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

Is the above the correct cable to adapt to SATA drives for the above cards? I am about to order four from Monoprice since they are 15% off today.
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post #4498 of 4498 Old 08-23-2015, 08:00 PM
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http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

Is the above the correct cable to adapt to SATA drives for the above cards? I am about to order four from Monoprice since they are 15% off today.
Yes, that is correct.
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