Mfusick's How to build an affordable 30TB Flexraid media server: Information Requested.! - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Lol I am sure you meant 20TB and not 20GB. I was making fun your typo wink.gif Unless you really meant 20GB...

Lol... I didn't catch that.
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Since ZFS strips data, loosing more drives than the # of parity means losing all data. That really scares me frown.gif I know chances of that happening are slim to none, there's still a chance. Plus you will need a separate box for it unless you use bare-metal hypervisors to virtualize all your boxes in one. I have played around with FreeNAS quite a bit. The features it offers for a free product is amazing. ZFS really does intrigue me quite a bit, but integration within Windows was a BIG plus for me when it comes to FlexRAID.

Agreed... ZFS isn't for everyone. I was mainly attracted to it for data integrity (bit-rot). I know FlexRAID supposedly has support for finding bit-rot though either the Verify or Validate function (I forget which one is which)... Bit one thing caught my eye... The developer of FlexRAID is now working on a "ZFS-like" product and data integrity is one of ZFS' big claims to fame. That made me worried about what really FlexRAID is doing during those validate/verify runs. Plus I think I would have more faith in an enterprise product.
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post #542 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Advantage of Flexraid is data is still on drives even if machine or controller card die

It's the same with ZFS. Though not in the raw data aspect like with FlexRAID... No argument there.

ZFS doesn't care which controller your disks are on and you can take the whole set of disks to another system and be up and running in no time. Though you do need the whole set of disks or at least a quorum.
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post #543 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 10:32 AM
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Why would you not want to share the whole drive?

That's what I do. That is what I want. I don't want to share individual folders. That is a mess.

Sometimes you want different folder permissions for your different folders/shares. For instance, I make my music and photos share read-only for everyone but my special account so no one can accidentally delete something. And especially in the case of music so media player doesn't try to overwrite my metadata and put crappy lo-res covers in my music folders.

I think you are supposed to setup the shares within the FlexRAID console, not via windows.
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post #544 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Sometimes you want different folder permissions for your different folders/shares. For instance, I make my music and photos share read-only for everyone but my special account so no one can accidentally delete something. And especially in the case of music so media player doesn't try to overwrite my metadata and put crappy lo-res covers in my music folders.

I think you are supposed to setup the shares within the FlexRAID console, not via windows.

You have to setup the shares in Windows first then, apply the same settings in FlexRAID smile.gif
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post #545 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Lol... I didn't catch that.
Agreed... ZFS isn't for everyone. I was mainly attracted to it for data integrity (bit-rot). I know FlexRAID supposedly has support for finding bit-rot though either the Verify or Validate function (I forget which one is which)... Bit one thing caught my eye... The developer of FlexRAID is now working on a "ZFS-like" product and data integrity is one of ZFS' big claims to fame. That made me worried about what really FlexRAID is doing during those validate/verify runs. Plus I think I would have more faith in an enterprise product.

Yea, Brahim's implementation will be called NZFS, which is supposed to be coming out this Spring or so. It's sounding very interesting from whatever little I have read in his blogs thus far.
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post #546 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I do both! smile.gif

I set up full rights share in windows on the entire drive.

Then I do the same inside flexraid.

I share my "V:" drive which is my flexraid drive. The entire drive gets shared with full read and write to all machines. I have a few.

It's just the wife and I. She does not use much PC stuff at all... Just the front ends on the HTPC's. She saves locally on her laptop which I then move pictures and stuff to the server for her.

I don't have the fear of someone in my home deleting something at all. It's basically just me.

We might try for kids this year. But is should be a few years before I worry about that and the deletion of my stuff tongue.gif

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post #547 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

You have to setup the shares in Windows first then, apply the same settings in FlexRAID smile.gif

I always found this very confusing. Why are there separate sharing permissions in FlexRAID? What happens if the Windows and Flexraid permissions don't agree?
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post #548 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 01:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Well- I can tell you the hard way. It's not shared eek.gif

The solution is to log onto the server and "share" them. not a big deal at all.

I found that before I set up shares in Flexraid- sometimes it would lose it's share permissions. I would have to go and set it again inside windows. When you share in both places it sticks. That is all.

Nothing big. If your drive isn't shared just go share it. It's only a few seconds and clicks to do. Once you set it to share- You want it to remain that way. That is why you do both.

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post #549 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 05:52 PM
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amarshonarbangla and Mfusick

Your saying that it's not shared because I initiated the share from the Flexraid "Server Shares" configuration?

I would . . .
  1. Delete Flexraid shares from web config
  2. Share drive from windows explorer
  3. Add the deleted share back to the flexraid config
  4. No more BSODs?

They changed the blue screen to a lighter color blue in windows 8 rolleyes.gif

According to this other guy, flexraid shares never work in W8 unless you disable UAC. Brahim acknowledged saying "wait for driver update" http://forum.flexraid.com/index.php/topic,1579.0.html

I'll still try the list above since it's faster than "waiting" smile.gif
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post #550 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 06:13 PM
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No you don't have to delete the config. Leave the pool as it is. You setup the shares in Windows first, then FlexRAID. So delete the shares from FlexRAID config. Then go into V: (or whatever letter you set your pool to be ) and share the folders from Windows first (right click> Share with > set permissions here). Only then would you apply those SAME settings in FlexRAID. Now I am not sure if it is a driver problem of W8, but the method you posted seems unnecessary and cumbersome.
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post #551 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 08:24 PM
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I meant delete the share from the config not the entire pool snapshot configuration

I did this, added the share from windows explorer, then added it back in flex raid

Still no access from other networked machines, fortunately no more blue screens though

Disabled uac, share works fine. Pity, I'll be watching the thread over in the tracker
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post #552 of 3748 Old 02-11-2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

I meant delete the share from the config not the entire pool snapshot configuration

I did this, added the share from windows explorer, then added it back in flex raid

Still no access from other networked machines, fortunately no more blue screens though

Disabled uac, share works fine. Pity, I'll be watching the thread over in the tracker

Oh misread.

Atleast it's working now. Sort of...
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post #553 of 3748 Old 02-12-2013, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Is this windows 8 only problem ???

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post #554 of 3748 Old 02-12-2013, 10:39 AM
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I've not heard anyone else experience it, I'd say W8 only
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post #555 of 3748 Old 02-12-2013, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

As your data grows, you expose yourself to greater risk with FlexRAID. With ZFS' self-healing filesystem and data integrity... it protects against silent data corruption/bit-rot... and does this on the fly, and in a scheduled "scrub." Granted FlexRAID offers something similar with it's "Verify" function, but this effectively renders your server unusable for hours or even days depending on how much data you have. You have to run a whole verify job too, or it's worthless... so during those painful hours or days, don't change any data on your server, because there is no way to run an update. Don't try to watch a movie, or hope that your DVR-HTPCs hard drives don't fill up, because you won't be able to move DVR recordings.


What's the big deal about bit-rot? There are numerous examples, but a real life study of 1.5 million HDDs in the NetApp database found that on average 1 in 90 SATA drives will have silent corruption... which is not caught by hardware RAID verification processes (much less software.) For a RAID-5 system that works out to one undetected error for every 67 TB of data read. On a full 3TB HDD you can easily hit that 67TB in no time.
I know where you are going with this argument. And the ability to pull a hard drive and have access to the raw NTFS files is a good safety-net. But think about this... how many times have you ever done this with a WHSv1, SnapRAID or FlexRAID hard drive? In fact the only time you would ever do this is in a catastrophic server failure, or you are decommissioning a server. You don't just yank hard drives out of your server unless they are bad.

This doesn't happen very often, to almost render this plus for FlexRAID pretty moot. As long as you haven't lost more than your fault-tolerance disks, you can import a ZFS set of disks into another server with near instant access... with one simple command. And you can do this hardware-agnostically, just as with a single NTFS/FlexRAID disk.
Agreed. I did state that my needs had outgrown FlexRAID. ZFS is an enterprise class product versus a one-man show (no matter how talented that one man may be)... so who do you trust your data to? It's not just movies we are talking about here. It's music, photos, backups, documents, and much more... and more importantly your precious and expensive time.


Here are some other pros for ZFS as compared to FlexRAID:

1. No need for hardware RAID cards. ZFS was designed with cheap commodity hard drives in mind, not expensive RAID-capable or enterprise disks. Granted FlexRAID fits into this category as well... except when it comes to bit-rot which is more prevalent in commodity consumer-level hard drives.

2. No need for "checkdisk" or "fsck" type apps to correct filesystem problems... Besides, those apps take your data offline to check, meaning you can't stream movies while chkdsk runs on a 3TB hard drive!

3. Pooled storage without the need to re-run first-time parity when you add more hard drives. Calculating that first parity can take a long time in FlexRAID. Every time you add a new HDD to FlexRAID, you must run the first parity sync all over again, and with every new disk the process gets longer and longer. ZFS adds disks instantly.

4. ZFS pools stay online if you are rebuilding a RAID-Z set. With FlexRAID, your pool is offline while you rebuild.

5. Instantly create your pool/filesystem - No need to wait hours while the first parity build takes place, it's on the fly with ZFS.

6. True RAID-Z ability... mix and match RAID levels in the same pool... mix and match RAID-0, RAID-1, RAID-5, etc.

7. Snapshots/Rollback - Make a snapshot, and you now have a "Time-Machine"-like set of data saved with no extra effort or disk space. Only changes to the snapshot are written to disk. You can run snapshots daily, hourly, or every minute if you are ultra-paranoid and have a lot of changing data. Snapshot-RAID cannot compete here.

8. Copy-on-Write - pull the power plug on your in the middle of a file write and nothing bad happens with ZFS Try that with your NTFS backed FlexRAID system.

9. ZFS is space efficient - built in compression (modern CPUs are more than able to keep up)... you can compress files on the fly to free up more hard disk space.

10. Huge filesystems... up to 16 exabytes Why would you ever need that much? Who could imagine a 4TB drive 10 years ago?

11. Deduplication... great for backups or sets that have a lot of the same data.

12. Simple backups: "zfs send" command

13. On the fly Encryption

14. It's free! No need to purchase an OS license or RAID license.


It's worth noting that even Brahim recognizes that FlexRAID isn't perfect for every user and is trying to implement ZFS-like features in his "NZFS" product.

This was the original post that got me looking into ZFS.

I have decided to remain with Flexraid for the time...

But I am curious to play more and learn more about ZFS.

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post #556 of 3748 Old 02-12-2013, 01:07 PM
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It's not for every situation but if you have a few disks and an extra machine laying around (or VM capability) it could be fun to learn.
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post #557 of 3748 Old 02-12-2013, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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We are messed up about what we consider "fun" are we not ?

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post #558 of 3748 Old 02-12-2013, 04:35 PM
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We are messed up about what we consider "fun" are we not ?

You have no idea. I like living in the fringe of technology. Sometimes you find something simple and/or brilliant there.
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post #559 of 3748 Old 02-13-2013, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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So what's your next "project" ?

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post #560 of 3748 Old 02-13-2013, 06:17 AM
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Puwaha - what OS/distro do you use for ZFS?
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post #561 of 3748 Old 02-13-2013, 08:22 AM
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So what's your next "project" ?

I'm building a couple of new HTPCs to replace a couple of old Core2Duo machines. Nothing fancy. One will be Trinity based to see for myself if it can do everything I want. The other will recycle an i7 I have for SVP duties.

Then when my RMAed 2TB drive shows up I'll be adding it and two more 2TB drives to my ZFS pool.

Lastly I think I want to rebuild my VMWare server as it was a temporary machine that runs on a Sempron processor that may be hitting its limits with the number of VMs it can run well.

Beyond that, I want to play with the new releases of XBMC, Plex, and see if Windows 8 media center is worth the migration.

Oh yeah, I need to perfect the VPN session from my in-laws HTPC to my home network. It's working fine but will time-out when they aren't using it. I think a simple scheduled task to ping a machine on my network will keep it up permanently. I want to share my HD Homerun primes with them as well do they can watch live TV.

So... yeah nothing going on here. biggrin.gif
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post #562 of 3748 Old 02-13-2013, 08:27 AM
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Puwaha - what OS/distro do you use for ZFS?

OpenIndiana which is a Solaris derivative. Make sure to install the Napp-it tool (from napp-it.org) to get a really impressive web interface to control ZFS.

I played with the FreeBSD offerings (FreeNAS and NAS4Free) but I didn't like their ports of ZFS. They just seem clunky and performance wasnt as good. VZFS was built on Solaris and works best there.
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post #563 of 3748 Old 02-13-2013, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

OpenIndiana which is a Solaris derivative. Make sure to install the Napp-it tool (from napp-it.org) to get a really impressive web interface to control ZFS.

I played with the FreeBSD offerings (FreeNAS and NAS4Free) but I didn't like their ports of ZFS. They just seem clunky and performance wasnt as good. VZFS was built on Solaris and works best there.

Thanks! Could be a fun project for the long weekend!
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post #564 of 3748 Old 02-13-2013, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

I'm building a couple of new HTPCs to replace a couple of old Core2Duo machines. Nothing fancy. One will be Trinity based to see for myself if it can do everything I want. The other will recycle an i7 I have for SVP duties.



Do you like SVP? How do you have it set up. I have been playing with it on my 2600k and 6870 X2 card. It's almost video game looking. Kinda strange to me. Is it possible to be "too good" ??

What settings you use ? What else do you use with it ? (I am SVP noob and appreciate the advice)

I am not sure my HTPC is up to the task of SVP. (3570k) I would need add beefy video card.

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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post


Then when my RMAed 2TB drive shows up I'll be adding it and two more 2TB drives to my ZFS pool.

What brand and model HDD's ???

I have a couple Greens to send out frown.gif

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Oh yeah, I need to perfect the VPN session from my in-laws HTPC to my home network. It's working fine but will time-out when they aren't using it. I think a simple scheduled task to ping a machine on my network will keep it up permanently. I want to share my HD Homerun primes with them as well do they can watch live TV.

D

I am so ridiculously interested in this project for my parents. You told me about it once before. I would love to hear more about this.

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post #565 of 3748 Old 02-13-2013, 07:24 PM
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Do you like SVP? How do you have it set up. I have been playing with it on my 2600k and 6870 X2 card. It's almost video game looking. Kinda strange to me. Is it possible to be "too good" ??

What settings you use ? What else do you use with it ? (I am SVP noob and appreciate the advice)

I really do. I haven't played with the newer versions though. The one I use is an older version that allows you to set profiles based on how much smoothing you want. I always used 1.5 as it smoothed out 24fps without giving it that soap opera effect. I don't mind the SOE, but my wife thinks it's weird.

I'll have to do some research to see what the equivalent setting is on the newer versions. I received my case today from the egg, so I hope to start putting the older i7 back together tonight.

Quote:
I am not sure my HTPC is up to the task of SVP. (3570k) I would need add beefy video card.

It really depends on the level of smoothing you want. If you just want a little, I'd say your i5 might be fine. If you want a lot, then i7 definitely. The GPU helps, but most of SVP is still CPU-bound.

Quote:
What brand and model HDD's ???

It was a brand new Seagate ST2000DM001. It's the first HD i've ever had go bad within the first few days. I just paid the $10 advance shipping fee so they will send me a replacement so I don't have to wait 4-6 weeks.

Quote:
I have a couple Greens to send out frown.gif

I understand the pain. I've also got a 2TB WD green that I took from an external unit, so no exchange for me. And an older 1.5TB Seagate that I also took from an external unit... so once again... mad.gif I think I'm through with pulling drives from external units, unless the deal is just too good to pass up.

Quote:
I am so ridiculously interested in this project for my parents. You told me about it once before. I would love to hear more about this.

The key to all of this is that we both have 50MB/s fiber connections, I don't know how well it would work on a cable system. If you are in the same city, it might be fine.
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post #566 of 3748 Old 02-14-2013, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Parents are Right down street

BtW you can RMA that external cracked open. Just use serial # on drive and set up online. Use standard process.

I've done it and got a new drive.

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post #567 of 3748 Old 02-15-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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So you actually stream from your server over the web ???

Plex might make sense for that.

I dunno

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post #568 of 3748 Old 02-15-2013, 10:54 AM
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He's talking about VPN. That way, your parents can access your stuff as if they were in your network. That's where the high speed internet part comes in.
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post #569 of 3748 Old 02-15-2013, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Yum. I want.

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post #570 of 3748 Old 02-15-2013, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Yum. I want.

Where's your server log thingie thread mad.gif
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