Mfusick's How to build an affordable 30TB Flexraid media server: Information Requested.! - Page 31 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #901 of 3786 Old 05-10-2013, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
I think your right and its .5 meter that does not

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #902 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 04:34 AM
Member
 
donysious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
How did you guys mount the ssd in the norco hot swap bays ? I have looked at options from icy dock and vantec. Anything I should know about them before I purchase them. Any comparability issues ? I am going to use an ssd in a norco 4224.
donysious is offline  
post #903 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by donysious View Post

How did you guys mount the ssd in the norco hot swap bays ? I have looked at options from icy dock and vantec. Anything I should know about them before I purchase them. Any comparability issues ? I am going to use an ssd in a norco 4224.

There is plenty of room on the top. It comes with a few brackets to mounts 2.5" HDD's.

You don't need anything for that. It comes with the Norco's.

Take a look in some of the pics I posted earlier:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post



Look at those beautiful beasts ^






You can see there is plenty of space for multiple SSD if you wanted and also slim line optical drives. Norco comes with a few different mounting options and plates for them.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #904 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 11:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
amarshonarbangla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 39
I forget, why are you running two separate servers?
amarshonarbangla is offline  
post #905 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 11:30 AM
Member
 
donysious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 60
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

There is plenty of room on the top. It comes with a few brackets to mounts 2.5" HDD's.

You don't need anything for that. It comes with the Norco's.

Take a look in some of the pics I posted earlier:
You can see there is plenty of space for multiple SSD if you wanted and also slim line optical drives. Norco comes with a few different mounting options and plates for them.

I only have 24 Sata ports with the mobo and 2 cards. I am getting a norco 4224. So I just want to mount it in the hot swap bays and be done with it. I dont have anymore ports to mount it inside the case. Even if I did then one bay will still be empty.
donysious is offline  
post #906 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

I forget, why are you running two separate servers?

I am not.

I am running a single 30TB server in my home with Flexraid. (it used to be 20TB biggrin.gif )

I have currently: 12 Seagate 3TB 7200.14's (8 on the IBM and 4 on the Z77 SATA2 ports)

I have a 120GB VERTEX 3 SSD as the OS drive on a Sata 3 port (Z77 Intel) and running my original WHS2011 since it was $35 and I own it already legit. It works wonderfully.

Soon I will add a second IBM card and expand my drives further. I have room for 8 more drives.



The second machine with the Samsung SSD I built for someone else. I've built a few of these now.
I have done 4 builds with the Norco 4220 + Flexraid + WHS. I just happen to have a picture handy of those ones.

Wondering if I should open a business building these things. I get a PM occassionally from forum members looking for basically these. Now that I have built a bunch of them it's pretty easy to get set up properly with little fuss. Something that took me hours and hours of tinkering the first time.

The norco case is a bit more serious than some people want, but swapping that out for a cheaper more simpler desktop or micro ITX node is easy enough as well. (Cheaper too wink.gif )

Seems like all the rage about building a HTPC in the last two years has now shifted towards building affordable media servers. I could build and design a pretty nice media server for cheap money, something that was not so true a few years ago

Mobo $50
RAm $35
CPU $35
PSU $50
Case $40
$210 or so before hard drives. Adding storage is basically $40 per TB in drive cost these days. Going seriously big and beyond mobo ports might add another $100 for a good IBM or Supermicro SATA x8 card.

I'm likely to hit 50TB+ in my single server before I'd need a second one.

4TB x 8 = 32TB + 12 x 3TB = 36TB. Minus 12TB for parity (triple 4TB drives) That means in a single 20 bay Norco 4220 you can easily go 50TB plus, and have protection for 3 simulatenous drive failures.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #907 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760




















-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #908 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760






























-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #909 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760





































-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #910 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760





















-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #911 of 3786 Old 05-11-2013, 04:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
amarshonarbangla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Nice pictures. I love looking at pictures of people's servers smile.gif
amarshonarbangla is offline  
post #912 of 3786 Old 05-12-2013, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Thanks smile.gif

I had them available figured I'd slap some up.

I have a bunch more on another memory card from another build.

Soon.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #913 of 3786 Old 05-14-2013, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
When I started this thread: (over 12 months ago)
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1404685/cheapest-ever-htpc-thats-decent-proud-of-myself/0_100



I bought a few Asrock H61 US3S motherboards for $44.99 each. I picked them out because I like Asrock, how fast it boots up, and for $44 I got support for LGA1155 socket with USB3.0 and SATA3 ports. Ideal for a cheap HTPC IMO. That was important back then, but common today.
I ended up using one as a media server (Pentium G630 CPU + Asrock H61 + 8GB DDR3 ) and tried out flexraid. That was my first media server I built on the cheap. It cost me a few hundred bucks to get up and running. I have since upgraded my flexraid server to a Z77 mobo, a new CPU, New ram, Added more HDD's and IBM Sata card. Also upgraded the PSU, upgraded the case to Norco 4220... etc. So what started out as a really cheap media server ended up expanding as evidenced in this thread. tongue.gif

I found use for the original parts I bought when I started this thread in a another HTPC for my brother as a gift. Thought I would share. I still believe dollar for dollar this is a great value for what you get. Here is the outcome of the original purchases I made at the beginning of this thread today:

$44.99 -Asrock H61 Mobo with USB3.0 and Sata3
$61.99 -Pentium G630 2.7ghz dual core CPU (G2020 better today)
$31.99 -Crucial 8GB DDR3 1600mhz (4GBx2) ram Kit
$49.99 OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD
$17.99 Coolermaster 430watt PSU
$54.99 Coolermaster MILO 03 Case
$0.00 WD Green 3TB HDD (Removed from an external I have had for years)
$261.94 (Add about $100 if you had to buy the 3TB HDD or wanted it.)


Not a bad little machine for that price. USB3.0, Sata 3, with 120GB SSD and 8GB DDR3 Ram. Really no shortcuts even by todays standards. It runs cool and quiet too biggrin.gif
















I bough much of these parts over a year ago (before IVY came out) and I am still proud by the value and functionality it represents. It blows my mind when I see people saying they will wait for Haswell, just like it did a year ago when I saw people saying they are waiting for IVY BRIDGE.
Sure an IVY might be a little better than my G630 CPU I bought over a year ago (2.7ghz dual core) but what real world benefit is achieved??? This stuff changes so fast it's pointless to try to keep up. Buy based on reasonable value and functionality That's my advice This little HTPC is competitive by today's standards for very low $$$.






Here is the external I cracked open: (Originally got for $99)




-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #914 of 3786 Old 05-17-2013, 05:02 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Seagate 3TB 7200.14 is $99 again FYI

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #915 of 3786 Old 05-18-2013, 11:24 PM
Member
 
pchannan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Seagate 3TB 7200.14 is $99 again FYI

Where?
pchannan is offline  
post #916 of 3786 Old 05-19-2013, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Going.. Going... Gone frown.gif

I saw on slick deal.net. They pop up from time to time. Tiger was doing $99 and the Egg was $109.

I did see newegg has the 4TB Seagate for $149 which is a fair deal

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #917 of 3786 Old 05-21-2013, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
My next upgrade is to move my parity to 4TB so I can employ 4TB drives. Probably when I add my second IBM card.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #918 of 3786 Old 05-21-2013, 08:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
amarshonarbangla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,239
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Instead of adding a second HBA, have you thought buying a SAS expander?
amarshonarbangla is offline  
post #919 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 01:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
AVTechMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The State of Michigan
Posts: 633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 36
I had previously asked this question in PM, for which I've gotten a good answer, but was suggested to post here to where I can get some more feedback on Flexraid's day-to-day use.


Currently now I have the small unRAID server I have been using for my media, but my rackmount server from Tams should be arriving today and I am contemplating on what to run on that system since that will be my new main media server.

I was considering trying out FlexRAID for myself to see how well it works, except in my case I am going to use it with WS2012E. A few questions I have are: how long have you had it running since putting your flexraid system together? Does it run stable on a 24/7 basis, and what OS are you using in conjunction with flexraid?

In reading some of the Flexraid wiki they have a cruise control mode where it hides all of the data drives and once added to the pool it combines into one drive letter. I would be curious if I could see the individual folder from the data drives in 'My Computer', especially when using it with the Mediabrowser configurator when I need to specify specific paths on where my media is when watching movies or TV shows.

I'll continue to do my research on Flexraid and learn more about it. Thanks for any feedback!
AVTechMan is offline  
post #920 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 03:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
politby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: N59.45817 E18.39345
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 62
I am running Flexraid on 2012 Essentials. Rock solid. Current uptime is something like 32 days since the last Windows Update reboot.

It runs in cruise control mode, currently I have 16 drives in the pool, two 3TB parity drives.

It runs My Movies server, Plex, Squeezebox server, Oscam, Airvideo, my son's Minecraft server (in addition to all the usual Windows server stuff).

Why would you need to access the individual drives? Just create a Flexraid pool and organize your media into folders, e.g. V:\Movies, V:\Kids, etc. and point MB to them.
politby is offline  
post #921 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 05:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Elpee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

...
In reading some of the Flexraid wiki they have a cruise control mode where it hides all of the data drives and once added to the pool it combines into one drive letter. I would be curious if I could see the individual folder from the data drives in 'My Computer', especially when using it with the Mediabrowser configurator when I need to specify specific paths on where my media is when watching movies or TV shows.

...
That's true. After you setup Flexraid for your drives, all the drives are gone. You can only access to your individual folders (not drives) thru storage pool. mad.gif
It's a good setup for noobs who may mess up drives after Flexraid. But I know for sure, advanced users hate to see this.
If you really care of it, snapraid is your right choice. Go and try it! biggrin.gif
Elpee is offline  
post #922 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Instead of adding a second HBA, have you thought buying a SAS expander?


I guess the answer is no. Lol

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #923 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
You can see individual drives in Flexraid. Just stop the pool. Lol. One drive turns into many.

Why would you need to see individual drives on a storage server ?

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #924 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 05:48 AM
Senior Member
 
Elpee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 384
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You can see individual drives in Flexraid. Just stop the pool. Lol. One drive turns into many.
Sorry, but no way...
Using your pool, you can see folders in your drives. Once you stop the pool, you're blind again. In other words, nothing you can see in 'My Computer'.
Why do I need to see individual drives on a storage server. I want to control all my drives. Say, I just added some TV shows and movies I just ripped to the pool, but I don't know where exactly they are in my drives. How do I know I should yank which drive out from the pool, bring it to my friend house and watch it there?
Elpee is offline  
post #925 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Turn off pooling and access each drive.

But I'd copy to an external personally than yanking out and risking my server HDD.
Or copy to blank HDD in hot swap bay....

That how I roll.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #926 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 06:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
politby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: N59.45817 E18.39345
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Hey, I can see a debate coming... smile.gif

If you want to have individual drives, don't do pooling. Pooling is for those of us who don't want to keep track of individual drives.

I think you can get individual drive access by running Flexraid in custom mode.
politby is offline  
post #927 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,339
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 760
Once you understand how Flexraid works its really not an issue. It keeps things organized in folders. Something you add into a folder would remain on a single drive containing that folder. Once that HDD is totally full it would make another folder named the same on another HDD that has most spare area. Your files are not thrown around randomly ....

Accessing individual drives isn't really an issue

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #928 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 10:37 AM
Senior Member
 
acejh1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Just use expert mode following this guide

This way each drive can still be accessed outside of the pool if needed, no need to stop the pool, just make sure you don't open the same file from the source drive and the pool at the same time.

I sometimes write directly to the source drives if I need data in a specific place, it shows up in the pool fine straight away.
acejh1987 is offline  
post #929 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 12:30 PM
Senior Member
 
facke02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 457
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by politby View Post

I am running Flexraid on 2012 Essentials. Rock solid. Current uptime is something like 32 days since the last Windows Update reboot.

I've found this to be the opposite on my WSE 2012 server. I had issues with FlexRAID and WSE Dashboard, like moving folders to the pool. Issues with security and the recycle bin. Yes, there is a hack for the RB but it isn't fool proof. The raid component worked perfectly, pooling gave me problems. I also used Expert mode to configure everything.

Ken
facke02 is offline  
post #930 of 3786 Old 05-22-2013, 10:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
politby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: N59.45817 E18.39345
Posts: 1,401
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by facke02 View Post

I've found this to be the opposite on my WSE 2012 server. I had issues with FlexRAID and WSE Dashboard, like moving folders to the pool. Issues with security and the recycle bin. Yes, there is a hack for the RB but it isn't fool proof. The raid component worked perfectly, pooling gave me problems. I also used Expert mode to configure everything.

Odd. I have had zero issues. Maybe your problems have to do with Expert mode?
I also created all my shares in the pool from the WSE dashboard, not from within Flexraid.

I am not seeing the 100 MB/s transfer rates Mfusick is claiming, though.
politby is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

Tags
Flexraid , Intel Core I5 4670k 3 4ghz Lga 1150 Quad Core Desktop Processor , Intel Core I3 4130 3 4 3 Fclga 1150 Processor Bx80646i34130 , Asrock , Asrock Z87m Extreme4 Lga1150 Intel Z87 Chipset Ddr3 Quad Crossfirex Quad Sli Sata3 Usb3 0 Microatx M , Asus , Asus Us , Asus Computer , Asus Components , Norco , Asus Computer International Direct , Flexraid Raid F , Seagate , Seagate Hard Drives , Seagate Freeagent Theater 1080p Hd Media Player Stcea201 Rk , Hitachi , Dell , Windows 7 Vista Xp Media Center Mce Pc Remote Control And Infrared Receiver , Hp Oem Window Media Center Mce Pc Remote Control And Infrared Receiver For Windows7 Vista Xp Home Pr , Intel , Intel Core I5 3570 3 4 Ghz Processor , Intel Pentium G2020 2 9ghz Lga 1155 Dual Core Desktop Processor , Intel Pentium G3220 3 0ghz Lga 1150 Dual Core Desktop Processor , Amd , Amd A10 6700 Richland 4 2ghz Socket Fm2 65w Quad Core Desktop Processor Amd Radeon Hd Ad6700okhlbox , Amd A6 5400k 3 6ghz Socket Fm2 Dual Core Desktop Processor , Amd A8 5600k 3 6ghz Socket Fm2 Quad Core Desk
Gear in this thread - 1080p by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off