Mfusick's How to build an affordable 30TB Flexraid media server: Information Requested.! - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

I use a simple rule of thumb to use one parity drive for ever 5-6 data drives. I currently run FlexRaid with 13 drives (8 from SAS controller, 5 from On-Board + 1 OS), with 11 for data and 2 for parity.

Nev has some good advice here^

There is no hard rule to follow; it's much more a soft rule or common practice.

Everything I've seen basically has people running one parity from 3-8 drives, and 2 parity for 8+. Of coarse if you wanted protection from simultaneous failure you can run 2 parity with less than 8 drives. I'm not sure it's a clear decision what's exactly right for everyone you might have to make a judgement call.

I'm going to 2 parity drives and planning on running both from my Motherboard ports.

I'm not 100% why I'm doing this. Lol. Seemed a good idea. Anyone have opinion on parity off mobo header versus sata card ?

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Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post


Sadly my tower is now full, i should probably invest in a 24 bay 19" case some time, but the available hdd space should be fine until next year.


I have been there and done that. biggrin.gif

I went through same issue.

Quote:
My first drive ever failed this week, going to install the replacement this evening and see my first real-world experience how flexraid manages the restore process.

Please report how it goes I'm very interested in hearing your results.

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post #1262 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 06:41 AM
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Those of you running flexraid in real time parity mode, what are your write speeds like? I ask only because I just tried out windows storage spaces and it was abysmal write speed.
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post #1263 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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If you want real time then you want flexraid T and not F. I am using F with snapshot.

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post #1264 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 09:15 AM
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If you want realtime, you should try tRAID. RAID F's realtime implementation isn't that great.
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post #1265 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

If you want realtime, you should try tRAID. RAID F's realtime implementation isn't that great.

I've tried to download tRaid from their site but gotten a 404 error.
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post #1266 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 11:00 AM
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You need to register on the forums and find the beta release forum, where tRAID is currently being offered.

I might switch to tRAID one day in the future once its out of beta and has proven its reliabilty, until then, i'm fine with Snapshot RAID F.
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post #1267 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

You need to register on the forums and find the beta release forum, where tRAID is currently being offered.

I might switch to tRAID one day in the future once its out of beta and has proven its reliabilty, until then, i'm fine with Snapshot RAID F.

I've registered on their forum...a user there pointed me to the right direction. I have a spare server I can use for a test environment before putting it into actual service. Just need to get a few hard drives to test.
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post #1268 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

You need to register on the forums and find the beta release forum, where tRAID is currently being offered.

I might switch to tRAID one day in the future once its out of beta and has proven its reliabilty, until then, i'm fine with Snapshot RAID F.

Snapshot works much better for a media server. Even if you delete or add files it's a perfectly solution. It's only when your files themselves change (like editing a word document and re saving it with same file name) that you would want T RAID.

Any changes you make since the last update would be lost- so if you change your files often you might want real time. For me, I use my server for storage and 99% of everything I do is adding new files, deleting files etc... Flexraid-F works good for me.

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post #1269 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 02:07 PM
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I'm running two 4TB USB as my parity drives and at 2.0 speeds!
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post #1270 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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2.0 USB speed? eek.gif Dude! That is SLOW !

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post #1271 of 4593 Old 08-13-2013, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Please report how it goes I'm very interested in hearing your results.

Restore worked just fine. It took quite a few hours to fully restore the 3TB drive, and my snapshot was a bit out of date, but nothing big, i only moved some files around and they were restored in their old positions, so no data lost, just some sorting work lost. smile.gif
I'm now running a full validate to make sure everything is fine.
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post #1272 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 06:52 AM
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Yeah really slow, but I set the update for when I'm not using it so I don't really mind. When I eventually upgrade the server though, USB 3.0 speeds will be nice, or I will just follow your upcoming guide and yank out the drives. I tried a USB 3.0 card but it kept crapping out.
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post #1273 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

Restore worked just fine. It took quite a few hours to fully restore the 3TB drive, and my snapshot was a bit out of date, but nothing big, i only moved some files around and they were restored in their old positions, so no data lost, just some sorting work lost. smile.gif
I'm now running a full validate to make sure everything is fine.

Cool!

Glad to hear !

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post #1274 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shepP View Post

Yeah really slow, but I set the update for when I'm not using it so I don't really mind. When I eventually upgrade the server though, USB 3.0 speeds will be nice, or I will just follow your upcoming guide and yank out the drives. I tried a USB 3.0 card but it kept crapping out.

At that speed my update would take until the year 2146 tongue.gif

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post #1275 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 07:05 AM
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What kind of write speeds would I see with raidt and 2 parity discs?
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post #1276 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DotJun View Post

What kind of write speeds would I see with raidt and 2 parity discs?


I run Flexraid - F with snapshot so no clue I never tried it. Why would you want it over F?
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Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

It really depends on what the array contains.
For instance, I have an array made up of movies, full backup images, and zipped up VMs. RAID-F's Snapshot RAID has been working fantastic for me on that array.
I have another array where I have downloads, software data, documents, and whatnot. On that array, I was using RAID-F's RT RAID until tRAID now.

In all, I would recommend Transparent RAID above everything else as it works equally well for real-time data as it does for snapshot data.
Most users will typically only want one array and not want to do the separation of snapshot data vs real-time data. Basically, most users will want to configure an all purpose massive array.
Snapshot RAID is great, but when you find yourself having to do a lot of daily updates, then a real-time solution might be best.
So, even if your data is 95% snapshot data and only 5% real-time data, you might not feel like separating them. In which case, tRAID works the best.

Snapshot RAID is more flexible no question asked; supporting network drives, flash disks, specific folders or files, file exclusions, partial and fuzzy recovery in worst cases, etc.
However, I think Transparent RAID has a much greater edge for being a "one size fits all". smile.gif

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post #1277 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I run Flexraid - F with snapshot so no clue I never tried it. Why would you want it over F?
I don't like the idea of not having access to my data during a rebuild. I don't like the idea of my data being compromised until the appointed snapshot time.
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post #1278 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 10:32 AM
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RAID is always about compromise, its never a 100% protection.
I'm fine with my data not being 100% protected for a few hours until my next update task runs, if that means i don't get the performance degredation of FlexRaids realtime raid implementation.

"Real" RAID Implementations are fast while providing realtime protection, but instead they don't give you direct access to the discs if your array should fail (which imho is a really nice bonus, if one disc too many fails, you don't lose everything)

Compromises everywhere!
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post #1279 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I don't like the idea of not having access to my data during a rebuild. I don't like the idea of my data being compromised until the appointed snapshot time.

You can access your data when running an update. You can even add files to the server. Not sure what your talking about. You always have access.

My back up is every 24 hours. So worst case I lose anything I added or changed in the last 24 hours. Acceptable to me.

You can also cancel an update or a validation if you wanted access at that time without any hinderance of that process. Then run it again when your done.

You should run such things when the server is not being used. Your fear is misplaced because it's not supposed to be an issue. (it is not for me)

"rebuild" is only for a failed drive. How often does that happen ??? For me- Never so far. Nev just did it once for the first time. Does not sound like it was a big deal.

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post #1280 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 12:37 PM
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At that speed my update would take until the year 2146 tongue.gif

I think it's about an hour to update 16 gigs. It would probably be quicker if my server OS was an SSD drive :P
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post #1281 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by shepP View Post

I think it's about an hour to update 16 gigs. It would probably be quicker if my server OS was an SSD drive :P

An hour for 16 gigs seems slow. An SSD does not speed up update times.
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post #1282 of 4593 Old 08-14-2013, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You can access your data when running an update. You can even add files to the server. Not sure what your talking about. You always have access.

My back up is every 24 hours. So worst case I lose anything I added or changed in the last 24 hours. Acceptable to me.

You can also cancel an update or a validation if you wanted access at that time without any hinderance of that process. Then run it again when your done.

You should run such things when the server is not being used. Your fear is misplaced because it's not supposed to be an issue. (it is not for me)

"rebuild" is only for a failed drive. How often does that happen ??? For me- Never so far. Nev just did it once for the first time. Does not sound like it was a big deal.
That's what I was talking about. On a failed drive you cannot access your data that is on the failed drive, and if you are using 3tb drives, is a lot of data.

I agree that if I was only housing media then it would be fine to use snapshot though.

Direct access to the non-failed discs during a rebuild is nice but not as nice as having access to your full array of data during a rebuild.

One more thing, it's only a non-issue until it is one.
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post #1283 of 4593 Old 08-15-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

An hour for 16 gigs seems slow. An SSD does not speed up update times.

2.0 is pretty slow. I guess it can be anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour and 15. The SSD is an inside joke smile.gif
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post #1284 of 4593 Old 08-15-2013, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shepP View Post

2.0 is pretty slow. I guess it can be anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour and 15. The SSD is an inside joke smile.gif
More like your system is slow. wink.gif
Check that your system does not have a lot of small files with slow access to them.

Else, people running 100TB arrays using FlexRAID would be the most patient people on earth.
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post #1285 of 4593 Old 08-15-2013, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

More like your system is slow. wink.gif
Check that your system does not have a lot of small files with slow access to them.

Else, people running 100TB arrays using FlexRAID would be the most patient people on earth.

Thanks for the advice. It's almost all media files but I will check nonetheless.
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post #1286 of 4593 Old 08-15-2013, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shepP View Post

2.0 is pretty slow. I guess it can be anywhere between 45 minutes to an hour and 15. The SSD is an inside joke smile.gif

Took 8 mins to update a 16GB file
Code:
[2013-08-15 21:18:26,486] INFO : Executing update...
[2013-08-15 21:18:26,515] INFO : [update] started at: Thu Aug 15 21:18:26 EDT 2013
[2013-08-15 21:18:29,310] INFO : Using RAID engine Tx
[2013-08-15 21:19:09,424] INFO : Total process size = 17180917760
[2013-08-15 21:19:09,424] INFO : Max data size = 2962022727680
[2013-08-15 21:19:09,424] INFO : DRU1 size=2962022727680
[2013-08-15 21:19:09,424] INFO : DRU2 size=1941459435520
[2013-08-15 21:26:31,834] INFO : Successful UPDATE operation!
[2013-08-15 21:26:32,397] INFO : [update] completed at: Thu Aug 15 21:26:32 EDT 2013
[2013-08-15 21:26:36,909] INFO : Sending email alert - message=[Pool][UPDATE] SUCCESS
[2013-08-15 21:26:41,470] INFO : [Pool][UPDATE] SUCCESS - emailed...

Check your system. There's a huge bottleneck somewhere.
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post #1287 of 4593 Old 08-16-2013, 04:33 AM
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mmmm sounds like I do have a big bottleneck. Maybe this will explain why I'm still getting the occasional audio drop out with dts-hd. Instead of looking at the network I better look at the server itself! Here is my morning update log frown.gif

[2013-08-16 06:00:01,845] INFO : [update] started at: Fri Aug 16 06:00:01 EDT 2013
[2013-08-16 06:00:06,548] INFO : Using RAID engine Tx
[2013-08-16 06:01:51,923] INFO : Total process size = 12929990656
[2013-08-16 06:01:51,923] INFO : Max data size = 2918998605824
[2013-08-16 06:01:51,923] INFO : DRU1 size=2770597838848
[2013-08-16 06:01:51,923] INFO : DRU2 size=2918998605824
[2013-08-16 06:01:51,923] INFO : DRU3 size=1496399740928
[2013-08-16 06:01:51,923] INFO : DRU4 size=0
[2013-08-16 06:01:51,923] INFO : DRU5 size=327989329920
[2013-08-16 06:01:51,924] INFO : DRU6 size=1946683441152
[2013-08-16 06:29:06,918] INFO : Successful UPDATE operation!
[2013-08-16 06:29:07,144] INFO : [update] completed at: Fri Aug 16 06:29:07 EDT 2013
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post #1288 of 4593 Old 08-19-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you running gigabit lan ? Ever tested your LAN speed?

The best thing to do is test each individual hard drive. Then test the pool. Then test your LAN speed.

The results will show you the area of concern which we can focus in on and troubleshoot.

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post #1289 of 4593 Old 08-19-2013, 01:31 PM
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Ok sound like a solid plan. What program should I use to test my drives?
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post #1290 of 4593 Old 08-19-2013, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shepP View Post

Ok sound like a solid plan. What program should I use to test my drives?

Any HDD bench program should work. or you could simply try to do a copy and paste and record the results. Once you get your SSD installed what you can do it put a video file on your desktop. Copy it. Then paste it to each drive and record the results. Theoretically, If you are copy from SSD you should be limited by the HDD write Speed. Do the reverse you should be limited by the HDD read speed and not the SSD write speed.

Rude way, but it's real world and it works. That, or any HDD benchmark that records write and read speed.

I would test each drive, then you can test your pool by doing the SSD thing. (benchmarks look funny on your flexraid pool because flexraid uses RAM cache)

If you have faster than 80MB/sec on all your drives then your drives are good. If they are slower we can take a deeper look at the situation.

After we confirm the drives all perform fast - we can test LAN speed. That is most likely your issue with DTS-HDmaster. I am thinking no gigabit switch, or sub optimal cable/ends.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

What's using RAM as cache? FlexRAID or ATTO?

Doubt it's ATTO otherwise the disks outside of FR pool would get those kind of speeds as well.

Doubt it's FR either. Real-world transfers would have been faster unless it was programmed to use RAM only during benchmarking.

EDIT
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461478/what-kind-of-speeds-do-you-guys-get-on-your-flexraid-pool#post_23040330

Use this to test your LAN speed:

http://www.totusoft.com/lanspeed1.html

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