Any simple way to convert 24fps video to 60fps? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 42 Old 11-23-2012, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I've seen the Avisynth framerate doubling threads, but I can't understand them at all. Is there any simple, " Input Output " software that does all the job in one place? I really want to watch my stuff in 60fps, but I just can't get all the avisynth stuff to work frown.gif
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post #2 of 42 Old 11-23-2012, 02:29 PM
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Perhaps using SmoothVideo Project (SVP) is the quickest way to convert 24fps to 60fps. Avisynth + ffdshow video processor + SVP Lite in any DirectShow player.
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post #3 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 02:36 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the reply, but is there a tutorial on how to do it? I have absolutely no idea about that stuff.
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post #4 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 03:12 AM
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Install all three:

- Avisynth 2.5.8
- ffdshow (any recent build should work)
- SVP 3.1.2 Lite.

In MPC-HC settings > External Filters, add ffdshow raw video filter below LAV Video Decoder (or whatever video decoder you like) and set it to "Prefer".



That's it. If you see



then SVP is working. As long as ffdshow (either video decoder or raw video filter) is loaded in the video playback filter chain, SVP will work with any DirectShow video player (ffdshow remote API calls SVP). You can configure SVP via SVP Manager in the system tray.



For further details, check SVP wiki FAQ and Forums.
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post #5 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 02:52 PM
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This is exactly what you are looking for:

http://www.spirton.com/convert-videos-to-60fps/

It might look complex, but follow the step-by-step and you are on your way.
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post #6 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 03:24 PM
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The difference is

- Smooth Video Project: real-time conversion
- InterFrame: non real-time conversion, i.e. you create a new video file @60fps.

It's something like DVD upconversion to HD in real-time vs. create a HD file from a DVD (the latter was popular when there were few actual HD video files). I prefer the real-time conversion: better algorithms will be available with hardware improvement.
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post #7 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 04:49 PM
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SVP will only work with 32bit players such as MPC-HC, Jriver MC, Potplayer, Zoomplayer and a few others, it will not work with Windows Media Player (WMP). If you use Windows Media Center the links below provide possible workarounds.

The link below points to all the parts required, using the included MPC-HC player is the best way to start.

http://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Download

Quick start : http://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Quick_start

Here are a couple of guides

http://www.svp-team.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=284

Translated from Russian,
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://rimsky.net/Read/RimPack/4.htm
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post #8 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 05:29 PM
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Actually SVP works with WMP 32-bit, just as with other 32-bit DirectShow players.



The point is insert ffdshow Video Decoder or ffdshow raw video filter in the filter chain somehow. In the above

LAV Splitter --> ffdshow Video Decoder --> EVR

(It looks like ffdshow raw video filter can't come after LAV Video Decoder inside WMP, so I set ffdshow Video Decoder to the preferred H.264 DirectShow decoder, that won't affect MPC-HC or ZP.)

I would rather recommend SVP Lite. Any build of MPC-HC / ffdshow should work.
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post #9 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 06:02 PM
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What kind of hardware do you need for this renethx ?

Can you do it with an i5 3570k and no video card?

How about my 2600k and HD6870 ?

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post #10 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The point is insert ffdshow Video Decoder or ffdshow raw video filter in the filter chain somehow. In the above
LAV Splitter --> ffdshow Video Decoder --> EVR
(It looks like ffdshow raw video filter can't come after LAV Video Decoder inside WMP, so I set ffdshow Video Decoder to the preferred H.264 DirectShow decoder, that won't affect MPC-HC or ZP.)
.

It does not work out of the box, I did something similar with Win7DSFilterTweaker to get it to run. The context of my comment to the OP is the need to apply workarounds such as Win7DSFilter and what you described above.
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post #11 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 10:07 PM
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I assume you know the key added to Windows 7: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\DirectShow\Preferred. The key overrides merit values. The default H.264 decoder is Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder. It is enough to replace it with ffdshow Video Decoder. Details.
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post #12 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I assume you know the key add to Windows 7: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\DirectShow\Preferred. The key overrides merit values. The default H.264 decoder is Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder. It is enough to replace it with ffdshow Video Decoder. Details.

Yes. I think we should not derail the thread with the more complex discussions until the OP can get SVP running.
It should really be brought up on MPC-HC on the first attempt..
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post #13 of 42 Old 11-24-2012, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

What kind of hardware do you need for this renethx ?
Can you do it with an i5 3570k and no video card?
How about my 2600k and HD6870 ?

Yes, 3570K + iGPU should be good under EVR + default 1920x1080@24 profile. Here is CPU usage with 3570K + iGPU + default 1920x1080@24 profile during a 2min playback of a 1080p24 H.264 mkv file:



and the average GPU usage:

85.5% (a bit high smile.gif, because OpenCL is on)

I saw only 1 dropped frame during 2 min playback.

If you are going to add madVR, you will need a good discrete card. 2600K + HD6870 should be a good choice.
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post #14 of 42 Old 11-25-2012, 02:34 PM
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Renethx - is the above (2600K + HD6870) a recommendation to achieve excellent playback using SVP and madVR. In the realms of other discussions this appeared initially to be overkill, or is this just the territory we are in to run these applications effectively.

I presently have an i3 2100, coupled with a Nvidia GT430 which seems to produce high levels of 'dropped frames', using the madVR, mpc-hc, SVP combination. Would you recommend the above combo as the minimum requirement or is there a combination down the scale which will work as effectively.
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post #15 of 42 Old 11-25-2012, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

Renethx - is the above (2600K + HD6870) a recommendation to achieve excellent playback using SVP and madVR. In the realms of other discussions this appeared initially to be overkill, or is this just the territory we are in to run these applications effectively.
I presently have an i3 2100, coupled with a Nvidia GT430 which seems to produce high levels of 'dropped frames', using the madVR, mpc-hc, SVP combination. Would you recommend the above combo as the minimum requirement or is there a combination down the scale which will work as effectively.

I don't know about renethx's comments, but in my experience you need some high end hardware to run SVP and MadVR. I've played around with it on my overclocked i5 3570k and 6870. SVP is all software processing, and it really hammered my processor on some clips. I don't think an i3 is going to cut it. I suspect an i7 is probably best. As for MadVR it's all handled by the video card. Your card can probably handle some of the lower end algorithms. It won't be able to handle the newer fancier ones though. Using Jinc hammers my card pretty good. I can run four taps, which is quite frankly plenty, eight taps brings it to it's knees.

The moral of the story is for basic playback you don't need much. You hear this repeated all the time. To play on the bleeding edge, with all the fancy processing, you need serious hardware though.
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post #16 of 42 Old 11-25-2012, 05:35 PM
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OpenCL is the key here. In my previous post, 3570K + iGPU under EVR can handle Full HD SVP just fine if OpenCL is turned on (but GPU usage is 85%), however CPU is pegged with lots of dropped frames if it is off (GPU usage is low ~35%). SNB does not support OpenCL, while IVB supports it. AMD/NVIDIA discrete cards support OpenCL, of course.
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post #17 of 42 Old 11-25-2012, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

Renethx - is the above (2600K + HD6870) a recommendation to achieve excellent playback using SVP and madVR. In the realms of other discussions this appeared initially to be overkill, or is this just the territory we are in to run these applications effectively.
I presently have an i3 2100, coupled with a Nvidia GT430 which seems to produce high levels of 'dropped frames', using the madVR, mpc-hc, SVP combination. Would you recommend the above combo as the minimum requirement or is there a combination down the scale which will work as effectively.

3570K + HD 7850 or GTX 650 Ti is a good choice for almost all videophile purposes (madVR Jinc3+AR / Jinc3+AR, SVP, 4K; except for SD/HD to 4K UHD Jinc upscaling), or HD 7870 / GTX 660 for Jinc4+AR / Jinc4+AR. Here are some results.

- Core i5-3570K (default clock)
- DDR3-1600 2 x 2GB
- Radeon HD 7850 / GTX 650 Ti
- MPC-HC, LAV Video Decoder 0.53.2 (DXVA2CB [DXVA2 native won't work if ffdshow is inserted]), ffdshow raw video filter, madVR 0.85.1 (Jinc3+AR / Jinc3+AR), SVP 3.1.2 (default profiles)

CPU / GPU usage were measured when a 2min SD film and a 2min HD film were played back.

HD 7850

SD film --> HD



Average rendering time ~7.7 ms

SD film --> HD with SVP



Average rendering time ~7.9 ms

SD film --> HD with SVP / OpenCL off



Average rendering time ~7.6 ms

SD video --> HD



Average rendering time ~8.3 ms

720p video --> HD



Average rendering time ~9.4 ms

HD film



Average rendering time ~6.8 ms

HD film with SVP



Average rendering time ~6.7 ms

HD film with SVP / OpenCL off



Average rendering time ~6.5 ms

HD i video



Average rendering time ~7.9 ms

HD p video



Average rendering time ~6.7 ms
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post #18 of 42 Old 11-25-2012, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

Renethx - is the above (2600K + HD6870) a recommendation to achieve excellent playback using SVP and madVR. In the realms of other discussions this appeared initially to be overkill, or is this just the territory we are in to run these applications effectively.

I don't think it was a specific recommendation. It's just what I have already so I asked. I think his mention of them specific was in reply to my specific question if it would work well or not in my case.

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post #19 of 42 Old 11-26-2012, 12:51 AM
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Thanks guys - that gives me and my wallet plenty to think about.

With limited testing I quite like SVP and what it produces, will need to consider whether I like it that much to drop a considerable amount of cash on it.
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post #20 of 42 Old 11-26-2012, 01:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to all who answered. Well, I was able to get SVP to work, and it seems pretty good. Is there anyway to convert the actual video to 60fps? I have lots of HD movies, and some play fine while others seem to have some sort of 'lag', kind of a choppy video I would say. Is this normal or should I change some settings? I just built my pc a month ago, specs are :

i5 3570k stock clocks
XFX HD7870 2GB
8 GB DDR3 1600mhz ram
120GB kingston SSD
1TB WD caviar green drive
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post #21 of 42 Old 11-26-2012, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrFriendlyNoob View Post

Thanks to all who answered. Well, I was able to get SVP to work, and it seems pretty good. Is there anyway to convert the actual video to 60fps? I have lots of HD movies, and some play fine while others seem to have some sort of 'lag', kind of a choppy video I would say. Is this normal or should I change some settings? I just built my pc a month

Interframe http://www.spirton.com/convert-videos-to-60fps/

It gives you the smoothness but you lose image sharpness as the video is subjected to another round of lossy compression.

Lag is usually the CPU or GPU running out of cycles or both. I suggest installing the MadVR renderer, it has some very detailed stats including rendertime.
On 60fps there is 16.67ms to render and present the frame.
Ctrl-J when running the player will bring up the stats screen. (The EVR renderer can also do the same, perhaps someone else can post the info, I have not used it for a while)

You should also create a profile for each resolution you use, sharing the same profile may lead to one or all of them having issues, in general you should have at least 3 basic profiles 480p, 720p and 1080p, a further extension is to create separate ones for 60fps, 30fps and 24fps. SVP picks the right defaults given the correct resolution and refresh rate, go with those initially.

Get MadVR here http://madshi.net/madVR.zip
Info thread on MadVR http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228

If the CPU is the bottleneck, bring up task manager to check that none of the CPU cores are overloaded. SVP typically overloads some but not all cores, so the overall utilization may be 30% but one of the cores is at 90% or more.

You can look at GPU load using a tool like GPU-Z
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

Check that Open-CL is enabled as your card supports it.
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post #22 of 42 Old 11-27-2012, 02:51 AM
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Been playing around with this - waiting on my new hardware arriving - yeah dropped for an i5 3570k and HD 7850. While playing I decided to check out the mpc-hc sourceforge page to see whether they had resolved a chapter skip issue I was having. Decided to have a look at the xvid ru website (http://www.xvidvideo.ru/) and came across a new (well for me it was) incarnation of mpc-hc, now re-born as mpc-be. Its in beta at the moment, but it seems more suited to SVP, than the sourceforge mpc-hc - less motion artifacts and of course for me chapter skips work.

Anybody else trialling/using it?
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post #23 of 42 Old 11-27-2012, 03:32 AM
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interesting.

B&W cm5
Pioneer Elite SC-27
Panasonic 50" GT50
HTPC - i5, ATI 7790
Crappy Klipsch sub
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post #24 of 42 Old 11-27-2012, 03:54 AM
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XvidVideo.RU is inactive (the last svn is 1.6.3.4992, 2012-06-03). Try XhmikosR's builds. MPC-HC.1.6.5.6262.x86.exe is the latest (2012-11-27), although the latest may not be the best.
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post #25 of 42 Old 11-27-2012, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

XvidVideo.RU is inactive (the last svn is 1.6.3.4992, 2012-06-03). Try XhmikosR's builds. MPC-HC.1.6.5.6262.x86.exe is the latest (2012-11-27), although the latest may not be the best.

Yeah should have checked the dates of releases - just thought with the change of name that it was a new incarnation - that'll teach me to look more closely in the future, though there has been activity on the mpc-be builds beyond the date quoted on the mpc-hc project..

Thanks for the link.

Unfortunately the chapter skip bug is still evident in these builds - skips chapter marks incorrectly ie from 1 to 3, 6 to 9 etc (though not necessarily in that order, this is just an example of the type of behaviour experienced).
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post #26 of 42 Old 11-27-2012, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

Yeah should have checked the dates of releases - just thought with the change of name that it was a new incarnation - that'll teach me to look more closely in the future, though there has been activity on the mpc-be builds beyond the date quoted on the mpc-hc project..
Thanks for the link.
Unfortunately the chapter skip bug is still evident in these builds - skips chapter marks incorrectly ie from 1 to 3, 6 to 9 etc (though not necessarily in that order, this is just an example of the type of behaviour experienced).

mpc-be is a fork of the mpc-hc project.
It is available on Sourceforce http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpcbe/

I took a look at the latest 1.1.031.1239, it is about 3%-5% quicker in the time it takes to render a frame, in a few cases it was as high as 10% compared to MPC-HC 1.6.5.6238

I see less interpolation artifacts with mpc-be as you noted.

It could also be MPC-HC 1.6.5.x is somewhat broken as it drops about 2-3 frames/sec if SVP is running but inactive ie interpolation off when deinterlacing 1080i->1080p@60. with CUVID
Stop SVP and the problem goes away. ( I use SVP's profiles to disable frame interpolation when the source is 60fps)

The production 1.6.4.x does not have the issue. MPC-BE is also OK..

As for the chapter skip problem, have you tried using the Haali splitter ?
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post #27 of 42 Old 11-28-2012, 12:19 AM
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Are these 'interpolation' artifacts just something we have to live with as a result of what the software is attempting to achieve. I see it almost as a 'ghosting' at certain scenes - usually, but not exclusively to movement in front of a dark background, or foliage. I put this down initially to the limitation of my cpu/gpu (13 2100 and GT430) and decided to upgrade to an i5/HD7850 combo. Am I likely to see this with the increased power available to me with this combination. I don't have them as yet, but would hate to drop that amount of money on something that isn't going to resolve one of the issues.
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post #28 of 42 Old 11-28-2012, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

I see it almost as a 'ghosting' at certain scenes - usually, but not exclusively to movement in front of a dark background, or foliage.

Try:

Frames Interpolation Mode: 2M

in the profile.
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post #29 of 42 Old 11-28-2012, 02:13 AM
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Is there anything you can't resolve - your the man - again smile.gif

The question on improvement with better hardware stands though - any thoughts?
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post #30 of 42 Old 11-28-2012, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

Are these 'interpolation' artifacts just something we have to live with as a result of what the software is attempting to achieve. I see it almost as a 'ghosting' at certain scenes - usually, but not exclusively to movement in front of a dark background, or foliage. I put this down initially to the limitation of my cpu/gpu (13 2100 and GT430) and decided to upgrade to an i5/HD7850 combo. Am I likely to see this with the increased power available to me with this combination. I don't have them as yet, but would hate to drop that amount of money on something that isn't going to resolve one of the issues.

The problem can be mitigated to a large extent, the Standard or Simple Shaders produce the lowest artifacts (you really need to go looking for them in order to see it).
This are low complexity shaders so you could try it on the GT430.

Frame interpolation mode should be left at adaptive. (The "2M" shader is low in artifacts but you get a noticible amount of motion judder and some flickering during pans)

Artifacts masking should be set at normal or above. The GT430 may run out of cycles here. (Use GPU-Z to monitor the load as you are doing this).

All else can be left at defaults

A profile for the specific resolution and refresh rate should be created to get SVP to pick the right defaults.

MadVR should be used , enable the anti-ringing filters use lanczos or soft cubic, there is going to be a fair amount of edge enhancement from the interpolated frames (aka halos) so a 3 lobe filterr is enough
Jinc can be used when you get the 7850

These settings add a small amount of motion blurring duing pans which makes the result more like film and less of the "soap opera" effect

If you want to see how the 7850 compares http://www.svp-team.com/wiki/SVPmark:_online_results
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