New Vector SSD looks very interesting. Is this the BEST NEW SSD for 2013 ? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
I wanted to share some interesting SSD reading I just did.


Just read a pretty good write up about the new Vector SSD at Anandtech. The benchmarks appear very impressive. It's just killing many of the SSD's people used to think are good. I guess it shows how fast PC hardware changes. I wonder if this is a taste of things to come with other brands?

It's interesting to read the best two performing SSD's use a proprietary controller that appears superior to most SSD's using Marvel or Sandforce. Samsung 840PRO and the new Vector. This appears to set them apart and ahead of the pack in performance.


The article also makes mention of a longer validation process for the VECTOR; that's certainly been an Achilles heal for OCZ in the past having rushed previous models to market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnandtechArticle 
The design cycle for Vector is the longest OCZ has ever endured. It took OCZ 18 months to bring the Vector SSD to market, compared to less than 12 months for previous designs. The additional time was used not only to coordinate teams across the globe, but also to put Vector through more testing and validation than any previous OCZ SSD. It's impossible to guarantee a flawless drive, but doing considerably more testing can't hurt.

Here is a link to the article:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6363/ocz-vector-review-256gb/






There is a bunch more really good reviews popping up which certainly reinforces some of the Anandtech article. Here is a few:

Maximum PC:
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/ocz_vector_256gb_ssd_review

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximumPC 
OCZ is claiming this drive is all-around fast, and can not only read and write like the dickens but also boasts extremely high IOPS performance and longevity, as it is backing the drive with an impressive five-year warranty.

In testing the Vector’s performance was extremely impressive, making it one of the fastest SSDs we have ever tested. In our sequential read and write tests using CrystalDiskMark, the Vector sat right around 500MB/s for both read and write speeds, which is top-of-the-charts. In our ATTO 64k compressible data test the Vector basically saturated the SATA interface completely, burying the needle at 522MB/s write speed and 514MB/s read speeds.

In our real word PCMark Vantage test the Vector took top marks with its score of 74k, with the Neutron trailing by a smidgen at 73K and the Samsung 840 Pro back at 56k. All three drives are smokin’ fast, but the OCZ is the fastest we’ve seen yet. Although let’s make it clear: The SATA interface is clearly the impediment at this point to increased performance of SSD performance not plugged directly into a PCIe slot.



There is another great review here: StorageReview.
http://www.storagereview.com/ocz_vector_ssd_review

Quote:
Originally Posted by StorageReview 
This is OCZ though, and if we know anything about the company it's that they like to ensure their high-end SSDs have top-tier performance. The case is no different with the Vector, which brings burst sequential reads and writes of 550MB/s and 530MB/s to the table, along with random read and write IOPS of 100,000 and 95,000 respectively. OCZ calls this scale of performance the "fastest sustained computing experience there is;" a point that may be hard to argue in many cases as we dive into this review


I am pleased to see the amount of attention given to the reliability concerns, it looks like a solid effort on OCZ part to clean up a mostly deserved bad reputation for reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by StorageReview 
The reliability message is one that OCZ hammers home with the Vector. In fact they're quick to point out that the Vector is the most extensively tested consumer SSD they've ever released and the Barefoot 3 controller has been through a very long validation cycle. Early versions of Vector were also distributed to beta users, of which StorageReview was a member. Before each Vector ships, it undergoes a burn-in procedure to flush any issues prior to shipment, leading to fewer returns and DOA issues. OCZ is also making a change to their firmware protocol, which they can now that they aren't beholden to an external controller company. Firmware updates will undergo a longer validation cycle and will likely be much less frequent than what has been the case historically with SandForce-based SSDs.



Here is a couple more reviews:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/58083-ocz-vector-256gb-ssd-review.html


http://www.techspot.com/review/609-ocz-vector-ssd/
Quote:
The OCZ Vector was a beast in the 4K-64 thread test with a throughput of 368.2MB/s, making it 35% faster than the Samsung SSD 840 Pro and 51% faster than the Vertex 4.





The benchmarks appear quite impressive on this little beast. The advantage over older controllers and SSD's appears pretty obvious in some benchmarks from Anandtech:






I've had my eye on the Samsung 840Pro and I have been looking for an upgrade to a 256GB SSD. To say I am not interested in this new SSD would be a lie. I think it's going to come down to this new VECTOR and the Samsung840 are the new Kings of the SSDs. It's amazing to me how much products can change and improve so quickly. It seemed like SSD was here to stay for a while this time last year, and that performance would remain unchanged for a significant period. Those best selling SSD's from 12 months ago based on Sandforce and Marvel controllers like the Vertex3 and the CrucialM4 just seem old and slow already. And, it's interesting to see how both Samsung and OCZ have differentiated themselves from the other SSD's with proprietary SSD controllers that set them apart in relative performance from the majority of other SSD's based on Marvel/Sandforce. I guess it pays to own your own controller company, and make your own controllers as both Samsung and OCZ are demonstrating.



and,



Lastly....



<---- in before someone bashes OCZ biggrin.gif

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
You aren't going to notice a 10% increased benchmark in real world htpc applications.

But if you are susceptible to the placebo effect (which is very real) then knock yourself out.
assassin is online now  
post #3 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:25 PM
 
cybrsage's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 8,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 147
Would you notice 51% faster?

"making it 35% faster than the Samsung SSD 840 Pro and 51% faster than the Vertex 4"
cybrsage is offline  
post #4 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:29 PM
Member
 
sidefx79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Would you notice 51% faster?
"making it 35% faster than the Samsung SSD 840 Pro and 51% faster than the Vertex 4"

Depends... if original wait time on whatever I'm waiting for was 10 seconds maybe. If it's already 1 second and this makes it 0.49 seconds... probably not.
sidefx79 is offline  
post #5 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

You aren't going to notice a 10% increased benchmark in real world htpc applications.
But if you are susceptible to the placebo effect (which is very real) then knock yourself out.

While I agree in a HTPC, and would say any SSD probably is sufficient- I'd argue two things.

First- In a high end Desktop or workstation you would/could notice the difference much more. That's really what the Vector is. It's a higher end SSD intended for that. It's not intended for a HTPC. I just posted it here because I thought it was interesting to see how SSD's are changing.
If you wanted to build a high end HTPC or the ultimate HTPC it would be hard to do or lay claim you did without a top level SSD. But I imagine for 95% of HTPC applications your probably right and it's not a big deal real world for an ordinary person or non enthusiast.

And,

Second, You said 10% but in my glancing at the benchmark it's way more than that. In some benchmarks it's 50% better or faster than mainstream Marvel or Sandforce based drives like the Crucial M4 or Vertex/Agility/Intel
It's not even close in many. It's measurably superior. It even lays waste to the Vertex4 in a couple places, which was already much faster than most of the drives on the market. I think it would be way harder to find a benchmark it's only 10% better in versus a benchmark it's 25% or more better at. Your downplaying it a bit I think.

Cliff Notes:

I agree in ordinary basic HTPC it's overkill / not needed / unappreciated by most ordinary folks
I am very interested as a non HTPC SSD for my Desktop workstation as it's impressive performance is undeniable.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #6 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tong Chia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Would you notice 51% faster?
"making it 35% faster than the Samsung SSD 840 Pro and 51% faster than the Vertex 4"

I certainly would, thinking of getting one of these as a live TV buffer drive, which sees a lot of simultaneous read/writes. Early indications are that this is an IOPS monster.
I am punting on OCZ not being able to ask for as much for their drive as Samsung does for theirs, time will tell.

Another possibility is as the cache drive for my ZFS pool, OCZ is using 25nm MLC (3K write endurance) as opposed to the 20nm stuff. The IO perfromance looks good, hoping other reviews will say the same.
Tong Chia is offline  
post #7 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Would you notice 51% faster?
"making it 35% faster than the Samsung SSD 840 Pro and 51% faster than the Vertex 4"

Your beat me to it and stole my thunder.

Go easy on Assassin as he's mosty right in the context of his statement and this forum dedicated to HTPC. Remove the HTPC, or slant any build into an upper level performance or budget build and this of coarse will change significantly.

I'm not going to rush out and replace my perfectly fast and working SSD in my HTPC for this. And if you can buy Sandforce 120GB's for $50 there is little reason to spend $100+ on a higher end SSD for a basic HTPC build IMO.

But- I am guessing I might have one in my desktop in 2013 biggrin.gif

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #8 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post

I certainly would, thinking of getting one of these as a live TV buffer drive, which sees a lot of simultaneous read/writes. Early indications are that this is an IOPS monster.
I am punting on OCZ not being able to ask for as much for their drive as Samsung does for theirs, time will tell.

I concur.

The reputation of OCZ will not allow them to sell for Samsung prices, so as usual your going to get more performance for you dollar spent. This is already happening with the Vertex4, and it looks like the Vector is everything the Vertex4 was and more.
I think your going to see OCZ drop the Vertex4 into the market share stealing door buster prices. $79 for $128GB. Moving the flagship Vector into it's current position and relieving it of it's flag.

I'd wager on the Vector, and it's 5 year warranty- over the Samsung for a reasonable $$$ savings. I think this is what OCZ is counting on.

Reports of the Vertex4 seem to be much improved, not just on the superior performance but the reliability. The Vertex4 is far under the return rate of previous OCZ SSD's and steadily improving. The Vector appears to be everything the Vertex4 is and more, building on that foundation.

I am not even sure many SSD's come with a 5 year warranty anymore. Certainly not many with this level of performance to price ratio.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #9 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tong Chia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,140
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
OCZ did a good job with the Vertex4.
The only dark cloud with OCZ is whether they can stay in business long enough to see the new products take hold.
Tong Chia is offline  
post #10 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:45 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Sometimes I open the webpage here and think I am at Overclockers. Or Hard Forum.

Then I look at the web url and it says "avsforum.com/f/26/home-theater-computers" and I am immediately reminded that I am --- in fact --- in a forum that should be dedicated and geared towards HTPC discussion. At least that's what used to make this place so great.

But back on track --- the point I was trying to make is that a SSD for me in HTPC serves 2 great purposes. By far the most important is how quickly it opens and browses through large libraries. It takes literally about a second even with the slowest SATAIII SSD. So will I notice if that is improved by 10-50%? Not hardly. The second is in bootup time which with the rare exception of a system or Windows update rarely ever happens. And even then we are talking about 15 seconds maybe down to 10 seconds.
assassin is online now  
post #11 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post

OCZ did a good job with the Vertex4.
The only dark cloud with OCZ is whether they can stay in business long enough to see the new products take hold.

Agreed. Which is why the 5 year warranty on any company like this with a very cloudy future should be weighed cautiously.
assassin is online now  
post #12 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
vladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Your beat me to it and stole my thunder.
Go easy on Assassin as he's mosty right in the context of his statement and this forum dedicated to HTPC. Remove the HTPC, or slant any build into an upper level performance or budget build and this of coarse will change significantly.
I'm not going to rush out and replace my perfectly fast and working SSD in my HTPC for this. And if you can buy Sandforce 120GB's for $50 there is little reason to spend $100+ on a higher end SSD for a basic HTPC build IMO.
But- I am guessing I might have one in my desktop in 2013 biggrin.gif
You completely missed his point. The benchmark tests show 35%/51%. In real world applications (and especially HTPC), you will not see anywhere near that level of improvement.
vladd is offline  
post #13 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

You completely missed his point. The benchmark tests show 35%/51%. In real world applications (and especially HTPC), you will not see anywhere near that level of improvement.

They did.

But you did not.
assassin is online now  
post #14 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post

OCZ did a good job with the Vertex4.
The only dark cloud with OCZ is whether they can stay in business long enough to see the new products take hold.

A company that big ? Sure they will. They will lay off a bunch of people, trim the fat, and cut a bunch of non performing product lines. Just like all major corporations do to increase earnings or get back on track to delivering share holder wealth.

I would be very, very surprised to see OCZ go under. At least in the time of my warranty period. They would most likely sell or merge long before that. Remember they own PC power and cooling, and their own SSD controller MFG company (which makes the controller in this awesome SSD) There's value there. Someone would buy or merge before they just went out of business. That's my thinking anyways.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #15 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
vladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Then I look at the web url and it says "avsforum.com/f/26/home-theater-computers" and I am immediately reminded that I am --- in fact --- in a forum that should be dedicated and geared towards HTPC discussion. At least that's what used to make this place so great.
Lately, I have to keep checking that to make sure I'm in the right forum as well.
vladd is offline  
post #16 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
vladd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 5,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

They did.
But you did not.
That's twice we've agreed tonight. This forum is really going to .... in a handbasket. biggrin.gif
vladd is offline  
post #17 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 08:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tiddles88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Hint hint, one of these as a dump drive for downloads and extraction would be a great idea.

For desktop use, I won't be upgrading my old Samsung 830, apps start quickly and the system is fluid, which is all I bought it for. The Vector won't make it any more fluid. It'd be like putting in a 3770 over my i3, faster yes, but you won't use it.
Tiddles88 is offline  
post #18 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:01 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

A company that big ? Sure they will. They will lay off a bunch of people, trim the fat, and cut a bunch of non performing product lines. Just like all major corporations do to increase earnings or get back on track to delivering share holder wealth.
I would be very, very surprised to see OCZ go under. At least in the time of my warranty period. They would most likely sell or merge long before that. Remember they own PC power and cooling, and their own SSD controller MFG company (which makes the controller in this awesome SSD) There's value there. Someone would buy or merge before they just went out of business. That's my thinking anyways.

And a merger or sale would more than likely make your warranty useless as it may not be honored by the "new" company.

Not trying to bash OCZ at all. Merely trying to provide facts (plenty more information via Google about the current health of OCZ as a company)...
Quote:
OCZ Technology Group Inc. (NASDAQ: OCZ) was supposed to be a winner because of the growth potential in solid state drives and other components. The problem is that the revenue model can no longer be relied upon. OCZ’s earnings situation has become a disaster and the company now cannot properly handle its SEC filings. It has even tried layoffs. Many law firms have initiated class actions or investigations here. The company trades under book value, but it has no guidance now and the few analysts that follow it expect losses of $0.70 per share for 2012 and $0.13 per share for 2013. The losses are mounting and that management “shake-up” was less than comforting. At $1.31, its 52-week week range is $1.23 to $10.05, and its market value is now only $88 million. What can save OCZ: A turnaround success; a low-ball buyout offer; clarity in its guidance and in its quarterly filings; sudden increased customer attention.
assassin is online now  
post #19 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

You completely missed his point. The benchmark tests show 35%/51%. In real world applications (and especially HTPC), you will not see anywhere near that level of improvement.

I did ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

They did.
But you did not.

I think I heard, understood... and even confirmed my understanding your point. Moreover- I even agreed with it.

I specifically went out of my way to make reference about 2 distinct points of contention your making

1- HTPC doesn't need a SSD of this performance caliber. It's not needed and unappreciated. Real world use in a basic HTPC is not going to deliver much real world difference.

2- This is a HTPC forum- but it's also a PC forum. Most posters here are PC people. You have to be a PC person first before you can be a HTPC person. I said I was interested in this as it was an interesting reading- and showing some of the changes happening in SSD products. More specific than that I said I was not interested in is for my HTPC, but rather my desktop workstation- as this is the application it's designed for.

I'm not sure how this entire thread is not deserving of being in this forum, or being discussed. It's interesting (at least to me) to see how new proprietary controllers are changing newer SSD products and differentiating them from products we have seen, even recent ones launching in the last 6 months, using the basic Marvel or Sandforce controller.

And- I think the side effect of this all is going to be the Vertex4 emerging as the SSD of choice for HTPC. It's been out a while and proving pretty reliable. It's better performance than most SSDs and better 5 year warranty too. Sure you can beat up the company- but that is nothing new to OCZ. I've already seen it for $79 for the 128GB. The VECTOR taking it's flagship spot means the Vertex4 is probably going to slide down to Vertex3 like prices. Under $80 it's hard to hate on that for high performance and high value product. I think as the months continue to tick by with a proven solid track record for the Vertex4 and it's price erodes- This will happen. I'll bump this thread in 6 months if my prediction is right.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #20 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:08 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tiddles88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I'm not sure how this entire thread is not deserving of being in this forum, or being discussed. It's interesting (at least to me) to see how new proprietary controllers are changing newer SSD products and differentiating them from products we have seen, even recent ones launching in the last 6 months, using the basic Marvel or Sandforce controller.
And- I think the side effect of this all is going to be the Vertex4 emerging as the SSD of choice for HTPC. It's been out a while and proving pretty reliable. It's better performance than most SSDs and better 5 year warranty too. Sure you can beat up the company- but that is nothing new to OCZ. I've already seen it for $79 for the 128GB. The VECTOR taking it's flagship spot means the Vertex4 is probably going to slide down to Vertex3 like prices. Under $80 it's hard to hate on that for high performance and high value product. I think as the months continue to tick by with a proven solid track record for the Vertex4 and it's price erodes- This will happen. I'll bump this thread in 6 months if my prediction is right.



Its fascinating that these SSD's are running ARM cores as the main/major part of the controllers (along with some co-processors but I digress). I wouldn't be surprised if the future will be ARM centered.
Tiddles88 is offline  
post #21 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

2- This is a HTPC forum- but it's also a PC forum.

No, it is not. AVS is not a PC place. It is literally a site devoted to "Audio Video Science".

In the past this is what has made AVS stand out among the crowd and quite frankly what makes it so unique in a sea of other "PC" forums. As I stated before the denotation of this forum as clearly being a "HTPC" forum is obviously missed or just not appreciated by all.

While this type of thread would be met with "Ooohs and Aaahs" over at some of the PC forums here it is merely a yawn as quite frankly its not really that relevant to HTPC.

With that being said I am not saying it doesn't belong. Just don't be surprised when despite a 30-50% benchmark improvement it doesn't really translate to the forum where it was posted.
assassin is online now  
post #22 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

And a merger or sale would more than likely make your warranty useless as it may not be honored by the "new" company.
Not trying to bash OCZ at all. Merely trying to provide facts (plenty more information via Google about the current health of OCZ as a company)...

Here is your quote:
Quote:
OCZ Technology Group Inc. (NASDAQ: OCZ) was supposed to be a winner because of the growth potential in solid state drives and other components. The problem is that the revenue model can no longer be relied upon. OCZ’s earnings situation has become a disaster and the company now cannot properly handle its SEC filings. It has even tried layoffs. Many law firms have initiated class actions or investigations here. The company trades under book value, but it has no guidance now and the few analysts that follow it expect losses of $0.70 per share for 2012 and $0.13 per share for 2013. The losses are mounting and that management “shake-up” was less than comforting. At $1.31, its 52-week week range is $1.23 to $10.05, and its market value is now only $88 million. What can save OCZ: A turnaround success; a low-ball buyout offer; clarity in its guidance and in its quarterly filings; sudden increased customer attention.

Well.. Like I said. I'll bump this up in 6 months if I was right. I'll expect a "you told me so" biggrin.gif

Sure they have financial problems. There was error in accounting that did not account for rebating, or they gave out double rebates or something. It killed their projected earnings as they issued a warning and the stock crashed. To make it worse- OCZ could not file on time the earnings because of the massive accounting mistake needing to be corrected. This cause consumer confidence to erode- and further decay of the stock prices.

Your quote is exactly right however- As a major merger could turn things around.

Also- it's right when it says " losses are mounting and that management “shake-up” was less than comforting. At $1.31, its 52-week week range is $1.23 to $10.05, and its market value is now only $88 million. What can save OCZ: A turnaround success; a low-ball buyout offer; clarity in its guidance and in its quarterly filings; sudden increased customer attention"

There is a new CEO and MGMT. Check
Filling it's earnings and providing clarity to shareholders. Check,
Sudden increased customer attention. (like in the Vector and Vertex4) Check.

I think buying OCZ stock then selling options against as insurance could be a smart move. If it goes up you make $. If it does down you make $ Basically if it does nothing... you lose a little. Seems almost worth it.
Note: I am not doing it.

lol.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #23 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I think I heard, understood... and even confirmed my understanding your point. Moreover- I even agreed with it.

"They" is plural.
assassin is online now  
post #24 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:15 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Here is your quote:
Well.. Like I said. I'll bump this up in 6 months if I was right. I'll expect a "you told me so" biggrin.gif
Sure they have financial problems. There was error in accounting that did not account for rebating, or they gave out double rebates or something. It killed their projected earnings as they issued a warning and the stock crashed. To make it worse- OCZ could not file on time the earnings because of the massive accounting mistake needing to be corrected. This cause consumer confidence to erode- and further decay of the stock prices.
Your quote is exactly right however- As a major merger could turn things around.
Also- it's right when it says " losses are mounting and that management “shake-up” was less than comforting. At $1.31, its 52-week week range is $1.23 to $10.05, and its market value is now only $88 million. What can save OCZ: A turnaround success; a low-ball buyout offer; clarity in its guidance and in its quarterly filings; sudden increased customer attention"
There is a new CEO and MGMT. Check
Filling it's earnings and providing clarity to shareholders. Check,
Sudden increased customer attention. (like in the Vector and Vertex4) Check.
I think buying OCZ stock then selling options against as insurance could be a smart move. If it goes up you make $. If it does down you make $ Basically if it does nothing... you lose a little. Seems almost worth it.
Note: I am not doing it.
lol.

Sure. But banking on having that 5 year warranty is a gamble for you. Not for them. They figure if they are around in 5 years its because they beat the odds and it was a small gamble. Meanwhile they will sell you whatever warranty they want for the same reason. Its fantastic marketing and a smart move on their part. You are kidding yourself if you think its 100% because they believe in the reliability of a brand new product.
assassin is online now  
post #25 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

No, it is not. AVS is not a PC place. It is literally a site devoted to "Audio Video Science".
In the past this is what has made AVS stand out among the crowd and quite frankly what makes it so unique in a sea of other "PC" forums. As I stated before the denotation of this forum as clearly being a "HTPC" forum is obviously missed or just not appreciated by all.
While this type of thread would be met with "Ooohs and Aaahs" over at some of the PC forums here it is merely a yawn as quite frankly its not really that relevant to HTPC.
With that being said I am not saying it doesn't belong. Just don't be surprised when despite a 30-50% benchmark improvement it doesn't really translate to the forum where it was posted.

Your partly right. I do love AVS because of this. I am into home theater as much as I am into PC's. There's tons of PC forums, but only one AVS. No theater science forum is close to as good as AVS is.
You'll notice aside from my substantial post count- I have been a member here for 10 years.

I'll +1 your saying this too.

But to your point and back to the VECTOR SSD we are talking about....

It's got a pretty good thread going over at Anandtech: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285486

I am surprised by the mostly positive reaction it's getting. Anandtech is pretty well known for being ANTI OCZ.

Even the moderators will dish out an infraction if you say something good about OCZ.

SO... I guess times are changing for sure.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #26 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:23 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 12,938
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Your partly right. I do love AVS because of this. I am into home theater as much as I am into PC's. There's tons of PC forums, but only one AVS. No theater science forum is close to as good as AVS is.
You'll notice aside from my substantial post count- I have been a member here for 10 years.
I'll +1 your saying this too.
But to your point and back to the VECTOR SSD we are talking about....
It's got a pretty good thread going over at Anandtech: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2285486
I am surprised by the mostly positive reaction it's getting. Anandtech is pretty well known for being ANTI OCZ.
Even the moderators will dish out an infraction if you say something good about OCZ.
SO... I guess times are changing for sure.

Anandtech is a great forum as well and much more geared toward PC than HTPC.

Full disclosure: Anand and I created the HTPC forum there only a few months ago where I am proudly the moderator. I don't ban anyone for anything they say either way about OCZ. smile.gif I hope their products are as good as advertised for reliability as competition is good for all.
assassin is online now  
post #27 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Sure. But banking on having that 5 year warranty is a gamble for you. Not for them. They figure if they are around in 5 years its because they beat the odds and it was a small gamble. Meanwhile they will sell you whatever warranty they want for the same reason. Its fantastic marketing and a smart move on their part. You are kidding yourself if you think its 100% because they believe in the reliability of a brand new product.

Without starting a flame war you know my position on reliability: It's impossible to predict with any accuracy on any PC product.

And- The biggest question mark to me is not the financial health of OCZ but that it's still very new to market and unproven.

The majority of issues with products occurs when they are new to market. Particuarly for very new products rushed to market. I'd say the safe bet is let a few months of end user feeback develop versus adopting a totally new unproven product.

I do however- take some comfort in the extra level of effort OCZ appears to have taken in the product development, beta testing, and quality control of this product. It appears much improved. If everything the reviews say about this SSD remain true and it's reliability is demonstrated with user feedback this beast is going to be a force in the SSD market. Perhaps not in HTPC's- but I think OCZ might have a real winner on it's hands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Sure. But banking on having that 5 year warranty is a gamble for you. Not for them. They figure if they are around in 5 years its because they beat the odds and it was a small gamble. Meanwhile they will sell you whatever warranty they want for the same reason. Its fantastic marketing and a smart move on their part. You are kidding yourself if you think its 100% because they believe in the reliability of a brand new product.

And while you consider it a gamble- I think I approach it a bit more easy going.


We are talking about $80 SSDs in most cases around these parts - so keeping in context with HTPC applications I just don't see or feel the "fear" many around here do on the reliability issue.

As a whole- ALL SSD's are about 3.5% defective and rapidly improving. They are currently more reliable than ordinary HDD spinners we have used and lived with for many years. Oh-- they cost less too.

So I think the whole warranty reliability thing gets weighted a bit too much.

Here is worst case scenario. You spend $80 on an OCZ drive like the Vertex4 128GB for your HTPC because it's both cheaper,and faster than most others in it's class- while having a better 5 year warranty. Now- Two improbable things happen. (1) You have bad luck and your SSD dies or fails. (2) OCZ as a company also goes out of business, disappearing from the face of the earth leaving you high and dry in the next few years. What's the worst that happens ??? Your out $80 and you go buy a bigger faster SSD at that time for another $50 that you probably wanted anyways ??? I mean these are PC products we are talking about. My desktop SSD isn't even 12 months old yet and I am interested in a double sized and faster one like this 256GB VECTOR.

Not saying reliability isn't important as it certainly is. Just there is some inherent risk in purchasing any PC product that you just must assume.

The fact that OCZ has some of these question marks around them is a good thing IMO. It allows people like me to continue to purchase their products at below market prices and superior levels of performance. I think that's the best aspect of OCZ. Take that away... I'll probably go search out a better performer or value in another brand. That's just how I roll.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #28 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by assassin View Post

Anandtech is a great forum as well and much more geared toward PC than HTPC.
Full disclosure: Anand and I created the HTPC forum there only a few months ago where I am proudly the moderator. I don't ban anyone for anything they say either way about OCZ. smile.gif I hope their products are as good as advertised for reliability as competition is good for all.

Lol.

It's ok. I love it too. You know I have posted in your forum smile.gif

And- it's only one moderator in particular. (he owns a crucial M4 per his signature)

I could post a screen shot or a copy paste PM showing two infractions (undeserved) with an obvious personal bias against the message I was saying- and certainly not for the manner of behavior I was saying it.
It only bothers me because there is constant rampant OCZ bashing that goes unchecked often- which is one of the reasons why I take a little offense to it being a happy OCZ owner of 15 different SSD drives.

Sorry to be unclear or confuse you in anything. Your a great mod over there and most of them are pretty awesome too.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #29 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Tiddles88's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 583
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Hmmm, I may get one of these or a Vertex 4 as a scratch drive for downloads. Compressing and decompressing 15GB is breathtakingly slow for a standard HDD.
Tiddles88 is offline  
post #30 of 212 Old 11-27-2012, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 22,383
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 142 Post(s)
Liked: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

Hmmm, I may get one of these or a Vertex 4 as a scratch drive for downloads. Compressing and decompressing 15GB is breathtakingly slow for a standard HDD.

Are you talking about unzipping a winrar file or whatever ???? You would have to download or have located your files on this drive first to see the benefit. The size is the problem here.

I use a dual 1TB in RAID 0 array - it does about 160/MB reads according to my terracopy when pasting to SSD. It's fast enough for me- while providing me a 2TB scratch disk.

I wonder if Intel SSD cache could help or not ?????

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off