PC picture quality not as good a Blueray player. - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 35 Old 12-04-2012, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi everyone, I have the LG CF181D projector.

I have decided to use a PC to play movies versus a dedicated BlueRay player however the picture quality does not seem very good.

Is there an issue with playing content on a PJ via a PC ? My PJ is focused properly.

The picture quality seems to be not as good as (1) watching the same movie on the PC's 15" 1080p display or (2) watching the same movie on the PJ using a BlueRay player.

Please let me know if I am not in the correct forum.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 35 Old 12-04-2012, 05:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
Dropkick Murphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18 Post(s)
Liked: 63
What are the specs on the PC? This is very significant information.

Dropkick Murphy is offline  
post #3 of 35 Old 12-04-2012, 08:43 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The PC is a Dell XPS 15z laptop with i7, 1080p, and 8g RAM.

I am starting to believe its my CF181D projector however I will have to confirm this tomorrow because the same movies play great on the laptop display, a 42" LCD and also one a 32" LED.

My movies are huge mkv files. For instance Gladiator 2000 Remastered Edition BluRay 1080p DTS is 20 Gig. I use VLC Player.

The only troubleshooting I can think of doing is to verify the HDMI cable is okay.

Can anyone else think of anything ?

The CF181D has a TrueMotion feature. Can this be useful ?
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #4 of 35 Old 12-05-2012, 06:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hdkhang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Is the projector doing 1:1 pixel mapping from both sources?

The first things that come to mind in these situations is usually a scaling issue or a levels output mismatch.
hdkhang is offline  
post #5 of 35 Old 12-05-2012, 11:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fitbrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 25
VLC doesn't do the best image quality. On a small screen you won't notice as much as a big screen. Try the trial version of JRiver Media Center in Red October HQ mode. If it works to your satisfaction you can either buy the software, or set up a free player like MPC-HC or MPC-BE with the same codecs/filters (LAV filters and MadVR). The important thing is to try a directshow player and see if that improves quality for you. JRiver is a free 14 or 30 day trial (I forget which) and automatically downloads, installs and configures the best free decoding components. I or others can help with setting it up. Almost everyone else can help with setting up MPC variants if you see a better image than VLC offers.
You may still find the standalone better, but I think it will be pretty close.

===========

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fitbrit is online now  
post #6 of 35 Old 12-06-2012, 06:12 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Mfusick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Western MA
Posts: 23,033
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 169 Post(s)
Liked: 852
You really think jriver looks better ?

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
Mfusick is offline  
post #7 of 35 Old 12-06-2012, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I did not know about the JRivers or XBMC until now.

I will try those tonight as soon as I get home.

I really, really, really want the HTPC route to work. I has been a dream for me since 1995.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #8 of 35 Old 12-06-2012, 12:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fitbrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

You really think jriver looks better ?

On a 61" or 120" screen? Yes.

===========

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fitbrit is online now  
post #9 of 35 Old 12-06-2012, 01:53 PM
Senior Member
 
NNate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I use MPC-HC + LAV + MadVR. Setup guide here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1357375/advanced-mpc-hc-setup-guide

On my 120" screen I can't tell much difference between my PS3 and PC playing Blu-ray. If anything, I think my PC looks better
NNate is offline  
post #10 of 35 Old 12-06-2012, 11:50 PM
Member
 
curiousmurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes I highly recommend Jrivers (+ turn on Red October feature)....so much easier to set up + highly stable software. If you like the picture quality you can later buy the software or install/ play with MPC-HC + Lav + MadVR. You should get the same result as JRivers.

I've spent lots of time experimenting with all the leading media streamers + software video players + bluray players and Madvr on the Jrivers/MPC-HC is very good,only so so so lightly behind in picture quality compared to the Oppo 93....this is on a new Epson 5010 projector + 120" screen.
curiousmurf is online now  
post #11 of 35 Old 12-07-2012, 08:46 AM
Senior Member
 
NNate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 282
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Not being forced to watch previews and FBI warnings makes the effort worth while IMO.
NNate is offline  
post #12 of 35 Old 12-07-2012, 08:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Free:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NNate View Post

I use MPC-HC + LAV + MadVR. Setup guide here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1357375/advanced-mpc-hc-setup-guide
On my 120" screen I can't tell much difference between my PS3 and PC playing Blu-ray. If anything, I think my PC looks better

$50 with occassional update fees:
Quote:
Originally Posted by curiousmurf View Post

Yes I highly recommend Jrivers (+ turn on Red October feature)....so much easier to set up + highly stable software. If you like the picture quality you can later buy the software or install/ play with MPC-HC + Lav + MadVR. You should get the same result as JRivers.
I've spent lots of time experimenting with all the leading media streamers + software video players + bluray players and Madvr on the Jrivers/MPC-HC is very good,only so so so lightly behind in picture quality compared to the Oppo 93....this is on a new Epson 5010 projector + 120" screen.

Sammy2 is offline  
post #13 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 11:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fitbrit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Free:
$50 with occassional update fees:

Yes, at least two of us have said that JRiver isn't free, but it's the easiest to set up to get the best picture quality. That quality can arguably be matched by free software that will require more in-depth configuration. (I say arguably, because there is more the video experience than just LAV and MadVR, e.g. frame/refresh rate synching, and other reclock like features. At least with the JRiver trial you can see what the best results will be - free for many days - and then you can decide to match that as closely as possible with free software. The main purpose of recommending JRiver is that it's free to try AND will give you LAV/MadVR with no user-input to download, install and configure them. If there's an improvement over VLC, you can then invest the time (as opposed to $50 in money) to download the free software and components and set them up. JRiver is a complex suite of advanced media centre tools, so it is not for everyone for everyday use.

===========

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fitbrit is online now  
post #14 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just tried JRiver and XMBC.

My issues previously is a sort a wave the moves across the screen when I am using VLC on my projector from my Dell XPS 15z i7 laptop. This only happens on my LG CF1811 projcetor screen. It does not happen on my laptop where all of my mkv files play perfect.

With JRiver it is larger gone however it still comes back an takes away what would be a very decent experience.

XMBC had less than VLC however it crashed.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #15 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 12:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JerryW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 33
A wave? Like the top part of the picture is shifted or otherwise not lined up corectly with the bottom part of the picture? If so, that sounds like tearing.

Copyright is not property, it is merely a temporary loan from the public domain.
JerryW is offline  
post #16 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No its not something like that.

Btw, this does not happen with my PS3 or separate blueray player where the image is perfect.

Imagine you are looking down at a movie through very clear water.
A coin is then dropped into the water. The coin is dropped away from the movie you are looking at.
Now imagine a single, small wave comes over your movie. Approximately 45 seconds later the second wave comes, etc, etc.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #17 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 12:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sammy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Right next to Wineville, CA
Posts: 9,835
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 189
That sounds like ringing.

What is the graphics unit of that laptop?

Sammy2 is offline  
post #18 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am not at home however I beleive its the NVIDIA GeForce GT 525M.

I am almost certain of this.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #19 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I feel embarassed to be tagged a Senior Member here however to not know what "tearing" and "ringing" means.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #20 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 03:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JerryW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 33
What part of the screen does the wave start on, which direction does it move and is it a straight line or curved and how wide is the line?

Here is what tearing looks liks like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tearing_%28simulated%29.jpg

I don't think it is ringing - ringing is when you have a high-contrast transition - like white to black and you get a sort of halo on both sides of the transition. Some people call it EE or Edge Ehancement when it really is just a side-effect of overly aggressive edge-enhancement (or extreme video compression).

See the first two pictures on this wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts

Copyright is not property, it is merely a temporary loan from the public domain.
JerryW is offline  
post #21 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It starts on top and moves down. It moves as if it were a subtle wave.

It sort of looks like "tear" in the picture however it moves.
JRivers does better with it than VLC did. With JRiver the wave would start at the top, go down 30%, and then disappear.

VLC had the wave almost reaching the bottom.

I have a powerful desktop coming Thursday and will try it again.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #22 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 07:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JerryW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 33
It is common for the tearing point to move - it is often an issue of mismatched timing between your video player software, the video card and the video display (not unlike when you are at a stop light and the cars in front of you have their turn signals on, but they are slightly different timing so they drift in and out of sync). It is not typically an issue of how fast a cpu or video card you have.

Try the MPC-HC player. It has settings that affect tearing, View (menu) -> Render Settings. Fiddle around with stuff in there if it doesn't work right out of the box.

Copyright is not property, it is merely a temporary loan from the public domain.
JerryW is offline  
post #23 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 07:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hdkhang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Definitely sounds like tearing.

Are you running windows 7? Also, do you have aero enabled?

The tricky part is that it only happens when you are connected to the projector. It could be a mismatch in the refresh rate.

In any case, the LG CFI (creative frame interpolation) feature should be disabled if it is enabled.
hdkhang is offline  
post #24 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Boy it sounds like I might be able to get somewhere.

I cannot access http://mpc-hc.sourceforge.net/downloads/ for some reason right now so in the meantime I will turn off Aero. and try it again.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #25 of 35 Old 12-10-2012, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Aieyieyie, I made a mistake.

I am not running Windows 7 anymore. I took the $39 Windows 8 offer and I am running Windows 8 which does not use Aero.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #26 of 35 Old 12-11-2012, 12:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JerryW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 33
I don't know why sourceforge is not responding.
But you can try videohelp.com - they keep copies of the latest and greatest video tools on their own site:

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Media-Player-Classic-Home-Cinema

Copyright is not property, it is merely a temporary loan from the public domain.
JerryW is offline  
post #27 of 35 Old 12-11-2012, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This morning before work I was able to sneak into the TV room to try MPC-HC. It showed "tearing".

My wife started calling "Where are you I need your help" before I could monkey around with View (menu) -> Render Settings. I will try this when I get home.

I just bought this on ebay ==> Gateway FX6860 Core i7-2600 8GB 1.5TB Radeon HD 6750. When it arrives on Thursday I will try it right away.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #28 of 35 Old 12-11-2012, 04:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
hdkhang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonybuchanan View Post

Aieyieyie, I made a mistake.
I am not running Windows 7 anymore. I took the $39 Windows 8 offer and I am running Windows 8 which does not use Aero.

That's fine. Windows 8 may not use aero in the traditional windows 7 sense of glass panes and what not, but it's the same deal underneath it all i.e. it's all hardware accelerated.

Windows 7 without aero enabled produced a lot of tearing even with the EVR renderer.

So at least we can rule that out. Are you able to check on the refresh rates between pc and projector and compare them to what you get with your LCD tvs?
hdkhang is offline  
post #29 of 35 Old 12-11-2012, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So far all of the players display "tearing".

The good news though is while trying players I noticed (again) the TrueMotion feature in the PJ menu and set it at high. This reduced "tearing" substantially.

MPC-HC froze when I tried changing some of the rendering settings. This happened twice.

I then started to focus a small 7 second section 16Gb Avatar mkv file and placed all of the players at this scene. This scene has tearing.

Believe it or not VLC seemed to show the least "tearing" of all of the players.

What I am going to do now is wait until my i7 desktop comes on Thursday and play the files through there to see if tearing is still present.

Thanks for your help everyone. I will report again Thursday evening.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
post #30 of 35 Old 12-13-2012, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
anthonybuchanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Okay I owe a huge apology to any HTPC belivers that read this thread and contributed thinking there may be a chink in the HTPC use case armor.

After receiving my new PC (Gateway FX6860 Core i7-2600 8GB 1.5TB Radeon HD 6750) and running the same mkv files I am happy to announce HTPC is awesome.

The images are outstanding. No more tearing. No more anything bad. Maybe there was just an issue with my Dell XPS i7 Geforce 525M laptop.

I ran VLC and JRiver anf thay both look awesome.

I might pay the $50 for JRiver if it plays BlueRay.

If I place a BlueRay movie (Prometheus for instance) into a SATA BlueRay drive will JRiver play it ?

Or will I need PowerDVD to play a BlueRay disk ?

My next step after getting a BlueRay player is to install my new InfiniTV 4. I can't belive I will be able to do so much now on a PC.

Thanks everyone.
anthonybuchanan is offline  
Reply Home Theater Computers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off