Anyone using SVP ??? What is the best combination of "perfectionist" software applications for optimal quality playback ???? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 12-23-2012, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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What's the rage in high end these days?

SVP / madVr ?

What combo's is everyone using and why ?

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post #2 of 21 Old 12-23-2012, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess non one uses SVP ?

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post #3 of 21 Old 12-23-2012, 06:33 PM
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For MadVR renethx has multiple suggestions for minimum GPU specs. If you want to use SVP on top of that I highly suggest top-end i5 or i7 CPUs depending on the level of smoothing you want. Then you'll want to pair it with a GPU (nVidia is the best due to its Cuda abilities) a couple of steps above you MadVR starting point.

Best is a Sandy Bridge-E processor and an nVidia 660-680. That should get you enough overhead to do both.

The SVP website has a link to a google-docs spreadsheet that shows synthetic and real-world benchmarks with SVP. It shows that SB-E is required for 60fps for HD sources at the "highest" level of smoothing. That may be overkill if you are just looking for a 1.5x smoothing setup. The 1.5x settings will take the rough edges off of pans and fast action without giving you the soap-opera effect.

I finally got one of those fancy 120Hz TVs and SVP on a good HTPC rig beats the internal smoothing hands-down.
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post #4 of 21 Old 12-23-2012, 07:05 PM
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SVP uses the OpenCL compute API. AMD's implementation is the best and the 7970 is almost 2X faster that the GTX680 in SVP.

I came to this conclusion after going thru 2 GTX680s before the tech at my local shop suggested I try the 7970 GHz edition.

The GTX680 is about as fast the as the 7850 in SVP.

The best setup is a Nvidia/AMD hybrid especially with LAV filters, with NVIDIA doing the decoding and AMD doing the rendering with MadVR and SVP

As for the processor buy one with the largest number of memory channels and the biggest cache your budget allows, I would not go lower than an i7-3750, as for the GPU something like an AMD 7850, I would not use Nvidia for OpenCL due to the floating point performance.
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post #5 of 21 Old 12-23-2012, 07:42 PM
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I did not know that about the OpenCL performance, Tong Chia. That's good info, seeing as I prefer AMD video over nVidias, but the nVidias have always been touted as the compute leader.

The reason I didn't want to suggest an AMD card is due to the wierd DXVA Copy-Back setup and potential performance hit in LAV or having to use the Cyberlink HAM decoder. Seems a bit more complicated to setup initially.
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post #6 of 21 Old 12-23-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

The reason I didn't want to suggest an AMD card is due to the wierd DXVA Copy-Back setup and potential performance hit in LAV or having to use the Cyberlink HAM decoder. Seems a bit more complicated to setup initially.

I use the AMD/NVIDIA hybrid setup so that I can continue using CUVID particularly the keep the nice 50/60p deinterlacing feature. I found HAM to be buggy on the newer cards when used with SVP, I get a lot of crashes when I fast forward.

NVIDIA cut out a lot of the FP hardware from Kepler in the gaming version of which the GTX680 is a part of. Fermi is somewhat better but , I lose the 4K H.264 decoder, it is still slower than the current AMD cards.

Nvidia's OpenCL implementation is quite dumb, if you have 2 cards plugged in it will use one and leave the other idle, it will start load balancing only if SLI can be enabled.

AMD's version is the polar opposite, I see both the Radeon and GeForce and the CPU doing real work. Overall far better utilization of available compute resources.
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post #7 of 21 Old 12-24-2012, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

For MadVR renethx has multiple suggestions for minimum GPU specs. If you want to use SVP on top of that I highly suggest top-end i5 or i7 CPUs depending on the level of smoothing you want. Then you'll want to pair it with a GPU (nVidia is the best due to its Cuda abilities) a couple of steps above you MadVR starting point.
Best is a Sandy Bridge-E processor and an nVidia 660-680. That should get you enough overhead to do both.
The SVP website has a link to a google-docs spreadsheet that shows synthetic and real-world benchmarks with SVP. It shows that SB-E is required for 60fps for HD sources at the "highest" level of smoothing. That may be overkill if you are just looking for a 1.5x smoothing setup. The 1.5x settings will take the rough edges off of pans and fast action without giving you the soap-opera effect.
I finally got one of those fancy 120Hz TVs and SVP on a good HTPC rig beats the internal smoothing hands-down.

I have a 2600k and HD6870 X2 now.

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post #8 of 21 Old 12-24-2012, 09:08 AM
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What's SVP?
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post #9 of 21 Old 12-24-2012, 09:57 AM
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Smooth Video Project www.SVP-team.com
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post #10 of 21 Old 12-26-2012, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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What's SVP?

higher end video application to create additional frames

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post #11 of 21 Old 12-26-2012, 10:14 AM
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By the way your 2600k and 6870 should be a really good platform to test SVP. It's free to try.

You aren't using this as your main HTPC it's your desktop, right?
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post #12 of 21 Old 12-26-2012, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

By the way your 2600k and 6870 should be a really good platform to test SVP. It's free to try.
You aren't using this as your main HTPC it's your desktop, right?

Right.

My HTPC has a 3570k.

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post #13 of 21 Old 12-27-2012, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

By the way your 2600k and 6870 should be a really good platform to test SVP. It's free to try.
You aren't using this as your main HTPC it's your desktop, right?

What is the minimum ???

My 3570k in my HTPC is not much slower than my 2600k in my desktop.

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post #14 of 21 Old 12-27-2012, 12:22 PM
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3750K is OK for starters, when running SVP keep an eye on the task manager load graphs and see that no individual core is near 90% consistently.

Once you get it going you will get a better idea of the kind of CPU you will need. One of my older setups is a i7 950@4GHz and it will do 2K frame interpolation to 60fps without any drops The 3750K is not too far behind, since it is a K-series, you can overclock. The only downside of the midrange i7 is the low memory bandwidth, SVP is a memory hog (It is one of the few 32bit apps that needs > 2Gb, so Win7 64bit is a must, for 32 bit apps get up to 3Gb)
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post #15 of 21 Old 12-27-2012, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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3750K is OK for starters, when running SVP keep an eye on the task manager load graphs and see that no individual core is near 90% consistently.
Once you get it going you will get a better idea of the kind of CPU you will need. One of my older setups is a i7 950@4GHz and it will do 2K frame interpolation to 60fps without any drops The 3750K is not too far behind, since it is a K-series, you can overclock. The only downside of the midrange i7 is the low memory bandwidth, SVP is a memory hog (It is one of the few 32bit apps that needs > 2Gb, so Win7 64bit is a must, for 32 bit apps get up to 3Gb)

I could overclock. It's on a Z77 board. I have 8GB DDR3 with my HTPC and 3570k.

I have 16GB DDR3 with my 2600k.

Of coarse- both are x64 PRO. It's not a big deal if I needed to swap 16GB with 8GB from one machine to the other. I guess it's not really a big deal if I swapped either machine. I run the HTPC now with integrated graphics. 2600k is a gaming build with video cards.

I could easily swap either machine or components- but I just don't see the value in it yet.

Do you think it makes a big difference?

What other parts of your system do you have?

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post #16 of 21 Old 12-27-2012, 12:59 PM
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I'm curious whats the visual difference between SVP framerate interpolation and adjustable framerate interpolation available on most >240hz LCD TVs besides the processing being done outside the PC?  I get pretty nice results when I set framerate interpolation on my TV to 30%; which equals to about 72fps on 24fps source material.  Frames are matched perfectly with vertical refresh rate since its all done within the TV.  TV detects both 24.000fps using reclock (which is what I use) or 23.976fps.

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post #17 of 21 Old 12-27-2012, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I could overclock. It's on a Z77 board. I have 8GB DDR3 with my HTPC and 3570k.
I have 16GB DDR3 with my 2600k.
Of coarse- both are x64 PRO. It's not a big deal if I needed to swap 16GB with 8GB from one machine to the other. I guess it's not really a big deal if I swapped either machine. I run the HTPC now with integrated graphics. 2600k is a gaming build with video cards.
I could easily swap either machine or components- but I just don't see the value in it yet.
Do you think it makes a big difference?
What other parts of your system do you have?

Try out SVP on your gaming machine, there is no need to swap anything out. SVP is a 32bit app, so it can never use more than 4Gb.

Intel's OpenCL implementation on the quick sync devices needs serious work, SVP chokes on it.

I use 2GPUs one for decoding (Nvidia GTX460) and the other for MadVR/SVP(AMD 7970 GHz edn). The hybrid setup reduces GPU overhead traffic considerably.
The i7 950 is a development machine, my HTPC is a Shuttle Breadbox with a i7-990X, it will be replaced soon as I need more space for 2GPUs.
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post #18 of 21 Old 12-27-2012, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

I'm curious whats the visual difference between SVP framerate interpolation and adjustable framerate interpolation available on most >240hz LCD TVs besides the processing being done outside the PC?  I get pretty nice results when I set framerate interpolation on my TV to 30%; which equals to about 72fps on 24fps source material.  Frames are matched perfectly with vertical refresh rate since its all done within the TV.  TV detects both 24.000fps using reclock (which is what I use) or 23.976fps.

The basics are the same, the difference is how each scheme treats fast moving scene changes and the resultant motion artifacts is an indication of the accuracy of that effort. I assume your TV doing proper interpolation and not frame insertion/deletion ala pull up/down schemes of the past.

SVP's motion estimation is vector adaptive and it uses multiframe lookahead to see how the scene changes much like a multipass H.264 encoder.
It can do this as it has enough memory in the PC to do so, most SoC based implementations used in TVs do not have the luxury.

Things may change when CE manufacturers can afford to dedicate 4-8Gb of memory for video processing.

The other difference is the amount of processing power that is available, in order to perform good motion estimation, the interpolator needs to search both forward and back in time and this is mathematically complex, and is why GPUs are so useful for this task.

In many respects the motion estimation engine in SVP is not too different from those used in multipass high end H.264 encoders, except it works in real time.
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post #19 of 21 Old 12-27-2012, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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What display and theater equipment do you have Tong Chia ?

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post #20 of 21 Old 12-27-2012, 05:53 PM
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What display and theater equipment do you have Tong Chia ?

Display
Panasonic P65VT50 65" Plasma

Frontends
Shuttle SX58/i7-990X/X-25E 64Gb/6Gb/Nvidia GTX460
Oppo BDP-83
Sonos ZP90
Logitech Squeezebox Radio + Boom + Touch
HDHomerun Classic + MCard Prime
Beagleboard XM XBMC ARM extenders

HTPC Software:
JRiver MC16
XBMC
MPC-HC
MadVR/SVP/LAV
Foobar

Backend/NAS
Xeon E3-1230/16Gb/Solaris 11.1/ZFS/24TB
WMC PVR in Virtualbox VM
Logitech Media Server
Netatalk AFP Server
Mediatomb DLNA Server
MT-DAAPD/iTunes Server

Processors
Onkyo PR-SC885
DVDO Edge for HDMI switching and HDMI audio splitting to pre-pro
Audyssey/SVS AS-EQ1

5.1 Speakers/Amps
Main: Martin Logan Summit /Aragon Palladium 1K
Center: Martin Logan Stage/Emotiva XPA1
Rears: Martin Logan Scripts/Wyred4Sound/Bang&Olufssen Ice Power
Sub: Velodyne HGS18
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post #21 of 21 Old 02-11-2013, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKANET View Post

I'm curious whats the visual difference between SVP framerate interpolation and adjustable framerate interpolation available on most >240hz LCD TVs besides the processing being done outside the PC?  I get pretty nice results when I set framerate interpolation on my TV to 30%; which equals to about 72fps on 24fps source material.  Frames are matched perfectly with vertical refresh rate since its all done within the TV.  TV detects both 24.000fps using reclock (which is what I use) or 23.976fps.

ReneTHX had a good post in another thread about this I believe.

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