Best HDTV Connection Ideas for my HTC setup - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 12-31-2012, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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So here is my current setup:

I have a 1920x1080monitor and a 1080p hdtv hooked up to a 'monoprice' VGA Amplifier Splitter. The HDTV is hooked up via a VGA 75ft cable to that aforementioned splitter. The cable wire goes under the trailer I live in, and back inside.

It works: It allows anything I display on the bedroom monitor to show on the tv in the living room. (That monitor is actually the 2nd monitor..in the bedroom) That would be Windows Media Center and/or Netflix, Pandora, or the web...or just reading documents on a big huge monitor.

The TV reads the signal as 1920x1080@60hz hooked up via VGA... Here are the issues though: The colors are slightly weird: I've tried fiddling with all the controls I can. There are 'Phase/Clock/Brightness/Contrast... auto adjust...' Advanced PC settings..... Sometimes the Yellows are just way too yellow, and the green is way too green! I've tried fiddling with the 'Color Temperature' but that doesn't help. On my TV there are no controls for actual Color settings?!?! If you look really close to the TV, you can see the pixels are shimming... Also the mouse cursor has a shadow, as other things do.

btw: My TV is a TCL L42FHDE30 42-Inch

At one point I converted the signal to HDMI. However the converter I had did not work in 1080p mode, but only in 720p mode. I believe it was a defective product. I sent that product back. I didn't think to check the colors at the time. Also I believe the contrast ratio is not as good as watching 1080i cable tv as well. Note: I do not have a blue-ray player to really see a true 1080p experience. But I can see a 1080i picture from cable. The defective product I had was a "Etekcity Video VGA to HDMI 1080P Converter/Adapter"

Questions/solutions:
Would it be worth it to buy another converter to go from VGA to HDMI? Note: I'm stuck with the basically buried VGA 75ft cable... So I would need to convert that to HDMI. I would just need a better converter than the one above.

Is the length of the cable the problem, and that is why my colors are weird? (and not fixable...) or because of the cheap tv, you know, it was black friday deal...
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post #2 of 32 Old 12-31-2012, 04:28 PM
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Cable length for VGA is a problem, and it can affect color accuracy. Though I've seen "shimmering" on cheap HDMI-enabled TVs too.

Check Monoprice for a 75 foot HDMI cable... you may also need an HDMI amplifier for that length too.
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post #3 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Umm... Re-read my message above. I have an amplifier from Monoprice already. Specifically the MSV-102 400mhz is supposed to support a cable length of 300ft.

Edit: Oh you think I should dig up the cable and change it all to HDMI. Well that is not an option at this point.
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post #4 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Cable length for VGA is a problem, and it can affect color accuracy. Though I've seen "shimmering" on cheap HDMI-enabled TVs too.
Check Monoprice for a 75 foot HDMI cable... you may also need an HDMI amplifier for that length too.

+1

I've determined this myself. I use long runs all over.

Good advice

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #5 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjr3d View Post

Umm... Re-read my message above. I have an amplifier from Monoprice already. Specifically the MSV-102 400mhz is supposed to support a cable length of 300ft.
Edit: Oh you think I should dig up the cable and change it all to HDMI. Well that is not an option at this point.

Did you bury the VGA cable or was it already there? Is the "buried" cable in a conduit? If so, just tie one end of the VGA cable to a 75ft HDMI cable and pull it through the conduit. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to fix. If the VGA cable is literally just buried with no conduit, how old is the cable? Could the sheathing have deteriorated?
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post #6 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I just setup everything within the last month. Drilled holes in the floor and pulled the wire through.

1st problem in switching to hdmi: My 24in wide 1080p monitor does not have a HDMI input. (pretty weird isn't it... but it was cheap.) - Recall that my TV mimics this monitors display. This is by my design.

So in order to switch to HDMI: I would need...

1) To junk my VGA Amplifier splitter, and get a HDMI amplifier splitter
2) junk my current long VGA wire, and install a HDMI 75ft wire.
3) Buy a HDMI to VGA converter (for my monitor...)

So all of this: would cost money and time (not to mention the alienation of the wife)... Maybe I'll do it next year. I'll live with some pain for now. I was hoping for some advice on some other tweaks you guys can give me. Not stuff that is just going to be too expensive and time consuming.
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post #7 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 08:18 PM
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Can you check with a shorter cable by moving the tv or computer, assuming you hadn't don't so yet? Try to see if it's the cable length, the amplifier, or the tv itself that is to blame.
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note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #8 of 32 Old 01-01-2013, 10:05 PM
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Just as aliaskary77 said, move the TV closer to your computer and try a normal 6 ft VGA cable. If it looks great, then you know your signal chain is causing the problem, either the 75ft VGA cable, or the amplifier. If it doesn't look better with the short 6ft VGA cable, then it's your TV, and there isn't a lot you can do with that.

Make sure your TV is calibrated too, do a google search for your model tv and "calibration settings" to see if someone has already dialed in a good picture with your TV. Then match their settings to yours, and only slightly adjust it to your tastes.
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post #9 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 03:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Just as aliaskary77 said, move the TV closer to your computer and try a normal 6 ft VGA cable. If it looks great, then you know your signal chain is causing the problem, either the 75ft VGA cable, or the amplifier. If it doesn't look better with the short 6ft VGA cable, then it's your TV, and there isn't a lot you can do with that.
Make sure your TV is calibrated too, do a google search for your model tv and "calibration settings" to see if someone has already dialed in a good picture with your TV. Then match their settings to yours, and only slightly adjust it to your tastes.

That's good advice. What I was getting at from the beginning was that perhaps the VGA input to the HDTV was not a good one. (that they didn't pay enough attention to it, in favor of HDMI, so in my original post I was suggesting an after conversion.)

Calibration? - Is this website something to what your getting at? http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html The clock/phase test seems interesting, and I'm not able to perform it this morning, but I can later on that HDTV. The website points out that the 'automatic' adjustment does not work that well. What I have noticed, is that every time I click 'auto-adjust' I get different results.

Thankx,

Robert
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post #10 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 05:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Another question: Since I always try to do everything cut-rate, yet have all the features. (a program that gets me in trouble from time-time)... Could it also be the VGA cable quality that I've installed? This one was $20... there are some that cost more than $100 that would do the same job... http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&cs_id=1020103&p_id=3592&seq=1&format=2
It sounded good in its claims. But of course they all do. (lol sales people)
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post #11 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 06:03 AM
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longer runs can always introduce problems with signal degradation, especially analog. also being that long and under the house, it could be close to electric wires/signals or metal pipes, also causing problems, not to mention the temperature and weather.

start with the simple stuff then work forward. tv settings, shorter cable with and without amp, etc, etc.

i would think the cheaper cable with the amp would have been sufficient.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #12 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Recall that test page? http://www.techmind.org/lcd/phasing.html linked earlier. I believe it looks different (that is better). At my work machine than it does on both of my monitors/tvs at home. I need to investigate further, or perhaps the amplifier. I can also test it on my main monitor. Not through the amp. btw... I did get to test for a couple of mins this morning, but was not able to elminate shimmering with the phase settings manually on the hdtv.
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post #13 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 08:06 AM
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something interesting. at work, i went to that link. i have 2 identical LG monitors; one one dvi, one on vga.

the dvi was perfect. the vga one was shimmering in a horizontal pattern. never really thought anything of the image as it seemed ok. it was evident with that 1 pixel checkerboard pattern. hit the autoadjust button and it looks fine now. not sure what it adjusted.

the hdtv may not have the same setting options is a computer monitor, but seems plausible its the tv. can you adjust refresh rates on the gpu? i know on vga and lcd, 60Hz is the standard so you will probably not be able to change it. what about color depth, 16 bit instead of 32 bit?

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #14 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I could investigate to see if I can go under 60hz. But I know 60 is maximum. Colordepth... would I really want to dumb down from to 16bit? but I'll check it out.
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post #15 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 08:36 AM
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i figured you cant change refresh rate outputting to lcd, just some thoughts to adjust signal to troubleshoot before spending on a $100 cable. dont have to keep that settings once you figure out where the problem lies.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #16 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I prolly will switch to hdmi sometime next year when its warm. (barring, that it is not some other small thing).. See the steps I laid out in post #6 above. However, do you have a recommendation to run CatV, instead of HDMI? Or get another 24AWG hdmi... I say another because see this sob story:...

Note: I actually had a long HDMI wire. With no amp. It was from a company called bluekangaroos. I would not recommend them, because they sent me a cut-rate 28AWG cord when the specs for this cord clearly are marked 24AWG - http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=223302331&rand=506a9f0a-8122-4941-8116-9885e3f4b715&loc=111&pageFormat=20&rs=1&dispType=wrwRevSec Of course I gave them a bad review, and sent the cord back. When I did have the cord, it didn't work and I received only a picture that flipped. After sending that cord back, I decided to go in a different direction, that is to go VGA... bad decision I guess.
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post #17 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertkjr3d View Post

Another question: Since I always try to do everything cut-rate, yet have all the features. (a program that gets me in trouble from time-time)... Could it also be the VGA cable quality that I've installed? This one was $20... there are some that cost more than $100 that would do the same job... http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10201&cs_id=1020103&p_id=3592&seq=1&format=2
It sounded good in its claims. But of course they all do. (lol sales people)

For the price it seems worth a try.

The gold standard in RGB cabling is called RGBHV - 5 independent pieces of high-conductivity (18 gauge solid copper center conductor quad shielded) RG-6 for each line. Terminate the RG6 cable ends with compression-type BNC connectors and add a short BNC to DB15 adapter cable to match up with your equipment. That will use up a Benjamin real easy-like but the performance is hard to beat.
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post #18 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

For the price it seems worth a try.
The gold standard in RGB cabling is called RGBHV - 5 independent pieces of high-conductivity (18 gauge solid copper center conductor quad shielded) RG-6 for each line. Terminate the RG6 cable ends with compression-type BNC connectors and add a short BNC to DB15 adapter cable to match up with your equipment. That will use up a Benjamin real easy-like but the performance is hard to beat.

Umm some of what you spoke is above my head. The 'compression-type-BNC connectors'? I think I would rather go in the direction of HDMI, or CatV... See my later posts. Or should I really - reconsider getting a super-more expensive VGA cable?

Edit: Also i think for that cable, I would need a bigger hole on both ends, in my house to fit it through... It sounds like it has huge ends.
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post #19 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

For the price it seems worth a try.
The gold standard in RGB cabling is called RGBHV - 5 independent pieces of high-conductivity (18 gauge solid copper center conductor quad shielded) RG-6 for each line. Terminate the RG6 cable ends with compression-type BNC connectors and add a short BNC to DB15 adapter cable to match up with your equipment. That will use up a Benjamin real easy-like but the performance is hard to beat.

Ok I'm just learning what RGBHV is... I'll investigate, and maybe this is another solution that I can put in next summer. This may even be preferable, now that I look at it. Thank you.
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post #20 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

For the price it seems worth a try.
The gold standard in RGB cabling is called RGBHV - 5 independent pieces of high-conductivity (18 gauge solid copper center conductor quad shielded) RG-6 for each line. Terminate the RG6 cable ends with compression-type BNC connectors and add a short BNC to DB15 adapter cable to match up with your equipment. That will use up a Benjamin real easy-like but the performance is hard to beat.

So you mean something like this: (Links would have been helpful... ) http://www.buy.com/prod/atlona-home-at19082l-23-video-cable-for-video-device-tv-projector/211603155.html?listingId=235166765

Then I would need an adapter from the seperate BNC ends back to VGA... This seems a little odd to go from one format to another.
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post #21 of 32 Old 01-02-2013, 10:37 AM
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I would suggest trying out the troubleshooting steps previously stated and report back first. It may not even be the cable that is the problem.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #22 of 32 Old 01-04-2013, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok update: I grabbed the TV unhooked it and walked it to the bedroom... and and. It exhibited all the same symptoms. I fumbled around with the controls, and I couldn't get it any better. The picture was much better on my monitor. Since my TV gets a great picture from my Cable through HDMI which is 1080i. I will make this conclusion:

So 'Aliaskary77' is correct... Its the TV. (At least its the VGA connection.. It stinks) At 1920x1080@60 it does not handle the picture correctly. However I bet it would work correctly if I converted to HDMI... This I said even in the original thread. I mean a VGA to HDMI converter. I just need to plug into the HDMI spot, instead of the VGA slot... or... convert the entire system to HDMI as laid out in Post #6

Another test is to drop the Resolution... And see if the TV will handle something smaller, and show a good picture. (but that would only be a test... Because I'm staying with 1920x1080) But still this current test shows that I need to complain to TCL - tech support (My TV). But, nothing will likely come of that.

Thankx,

Robert
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post #23 of 32 Old 01-04-2013, 03:25 PM
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hate being the lucky winner. I know you get a great deal on the tv so would have hoped it would be a simple fix like a setting.

how long ago did you get the tv? can it be returned? just wondering if the price of the tv, cost of redoing cable, a different cable, you might be better of returning the tv for a better one with vga that works.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #24 of 32 Old 01-04-2013, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not doing that... Even before I had the TV, many models didn't even allow a VGA signal at that high a resolution, and thought I had to connect HDMI, and I had it all set to do so. (recall the sob story in post #16)

I'm thinking as a short-term fix about this product, and this goes back to post #1 - http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-13219&scode=GS401&CAWELAID=1149810154 This would use the already existing VGA wire, and hopefully it will work better than the product I had from etekcity that did not work in 1080p mode. (On that, also see post #1)

edit: earlier you had mentioned to drop the color depth to 16bit. I did try that one. But I noticed right away on both the monitor and the TV that, If I ran video, that I would see odd shading that was just weird. So even if I did get a bonus in better color balance, I had lost depth... so that was not an option.
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post #25 of 32 Old 01-15-2013, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought that 'short-term' fix. The picture is so-much-better!!! Brilliant, crisp!

BUT! I'm getting the same problem I had before with the other converter. I don't know why. I'm receiving flashing on the TV. As if it is not getting enough signal through the wire. Here is the odd scoop. So I have questions:
The VGA2HDMI converter above includes a USB-Power kit. I had it plugged into the TVs USB (500ma 5v out) - I had lying around a (1amp-1000ma 5v out USB - that I could plug into the wall socket adapter... and it works better... but still flips.) So is it possible I need more power?

The VGA2HDMI says it wants 5watts 500ma. But if more power causes it to get better, than I'm inclined to give it more power. Is it also possibly a 'Ground-Loop - Issue?'

Edit: I found my Android Tablet USB adapter uses a 2amp 5v - 10watt output - but the picture does not improve. Also after swapping, it degrades while swapping. I realized I should not be hot-swapping. I'm leaving voltage in the line, or something. I've been reading up on this stuff. Another website suggests to leave stuff unplugged for a short-while.
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post #26 of 32 Old 01-16-2013, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to test an extension cord. Plugging the TV into the same outlet as the computer. I've had this problem before with my audio system. I solved that with a 'Ground Loop isolator' (a poor solution). As a longer term solution, but not expensive: What about this product: http://www.adorama.com/ACD080B004K.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Shopping%20Site&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=gbase

and please tell me I wouldn't have to put one on both ends. Ideally it would go on the computer end, as it is designed.
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post #27 of 32 Old 01-17-2013, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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No to the line conditioner, nor an extension cord did not do anything, but I did try it. Another thread did school me on how that was not going to work.

But what I did find is that VGA2HDMI product I bought is extremely touchy. I found if you get it near other things, this will get the TV flashing, more and more.
It operates by 1) USB out - which I plugged into the TVs USB power 5watt. 2) I had a short 1.5ft HDMI cable. - 3) I had my 75ft run VGA cable

For short periods of time, it would run ok. I tried moving the cable contraption around. I had it working, and I thought it was good, and I went to bed. I woke up in the morning... and guess what--- Flashing.
So on to trying more things:

So I above I tried sheild the cable above with tape, but that didn't work. The next thing I did was:

1) I found a longer HDMI cable - 10ft. - 2) I plugged the USB power into the wall via a USB adapter I had laying around that almost matches the power requirements exactly (mentioned in a earlier thread).
--- Now I can get the whole contraption away from any power sources... and now no flashes.

Brilliant picture!! Crisp! woohoo! Edit: if anybody does buy the VGA2HDMI product - make sure you get the version with the USB power. I've seen versions of the same product that don't come with that.)

Edit: here is the actual link to the product I bought... http://www.ebay.com/itm/261119834299?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
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post #28 of 32 Old 01-17-2013, 08:01 AM
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glad its all settled for not much more $$.

note: the post above is my opinion. as such, when reading any recommendations from me, please do you research and seek out other recommendations and make up your own mind on your next course of action. i mean, most reasonable adults should know that, but it seems this should be stated anyways.
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post #29 of 32 Old 01-17-2013, 11:04 AM
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USB out - which I plugged into the TVs USB power 5watt.

Chances are the 'flashing' was because this thing wasn't getting enough current.
Without negotiation, a USB port can only supply up to 500mA....2.5W....not 5.
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post #30 of 32 Old 01-17-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Chances are the 'flashing' was because this thing wasn't getting enough current.
Without negotiation, a USB port can only supply up to 500mA....2.5W....not 5.

Now I think about it. You have a point. However read post #25 (because I did try in the wall before)
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