Another RGB Color Space Question/Confirmation Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 01-14-2013, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello all,

You probably get this question alot, but I cannot find any solid information after several hours of research so I thought I'd post my experience/questions and get opinions on my setup. Basically I want to know what RGB color space I should be using at each point in my HTPC chain.

Pertinent information:

1. GTX680 (310.90 beta drivers) -> Denon AVR-2809CI via HDMI
2. Denon AVR-2809CI -> Pioneer KRP-500M via HDMI
3. Media player is PotPlayer using LAVFilters + LAV Video + MadVR

Here's how I've had it set up for as long as I can remember: RGB Full is being output by the graphic card thanks to the RGB registry fix. The TV is set to RGB Full. And finally, MadVR is also set to RGB Full. So RGB Full at all points in my chain results in the correct black level.

However, setting both the TV and MadVR to RGB Limited results in almost the exact same black level. I say almost because Limited results in an extremely slight increase in black level. But for all intents and purposes it's exactly the same. Finally, setting the graphic card's output to RGB Limited, the TV to Limited, and MadVR to Full also results in the correct black level.

Does this sound correct? If it is, could someone explain how and why all of these settings work? I'd really like to wrap my head around this and understand it. If it's not correct, then I'm guessing there's something else in the chain affecting things. I tried messing with my receivers HDMI settings, but it resulted in no change. Same for LAVFilters/LAV Video settings.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 10 Old 01-15-2013, 07:30 PM
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Hey there, sorry I can't answer your question, but I'm experiencing problems with my colorspace and your line about the RGB registry fix intrigued me. Have you got information on this and what its designed to overcome?

Thankyou.
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post #3 of 10 Old 01-16-2013, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVO13 View Post

Hey there, sorry I can't answer your question, but I'm experiencing problems with my colorspace and your line about the RGB registry fix intrigued me. Have you got information on this and what its designed to overcome?

Thankyou.

nVidia cards can only send RGB limited over HDMI wihout a registry hack.

This small utility allows you to toggle between RGB limited and RGB full: http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/?p=83
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post #4 of 10 Old 01-16-2013, 08:15 AM
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The key here is match player output with display. So, if your player is set to full range, your display must be set to full range. But there is a twist. The nVidia card will convert full range into limited if you let it do it (without the hack). In that case, you TV needs to be in limited mode. If your player is set to limited, your video card must be in RGB full mode so that it does not double convert. Your TV is set to limited, you are fine as well.

This is only good for one thing: your specific player software. The entire PC desktop and majority of the software are still operating on full range mode. Try to view a photo, play back a video in WMP or play a game in a limited-limited setup, you will notice colors are wrong. So, in that sense, it is best to set PC side to to full range and use graphics card settsing (hacks) to match your TV settings.

The downside of the full range setup is that you can't calibrate display with it because it can't pass black-than-black bars as well white-then-white bars for calibration.
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post #5 of 10 Old 01-16-2013, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

The key here is match player output with display. So, if your player is set to full range, your display must be set to full range. But there is a twist. The nVidia card will convert full range into limited if you let it do it (without the hack). In that case, you TV needs to be in limited mode. If your player is set to limited, your video card must be in RGB full mode so that it does not double convert. Your TV is set to limited, you are fine as well.

This is only good for one thing: your specific player software. The entire PC desktop and majority of the software are still operating on full range mode. Try to view a photo, play back a video in WMP or play a game in a limited-limited setup, you will notice colors are wrong. So, in that sense, it is best to set PC side to to full range and use graphics card settsing (hacks) to match your TV settings.

The downside of the full range setup is that you can't calibrate display with it because it can't pass black-than-black bars as well white-then-white bars for calibration.

Thanks for your reply, Foxbat. I'm still a bit confused though.

If I'm understanding you correctly, the optimal settings for my setup would be RGB Full from video card -> RGB Limited set on TV -> RGB Limited set in MadVR? To be clear, I don't care about anything but the video quality of PotPlayer.

When you mention the downside of the full range setup is not being able to be calibrated, do you mean the full -> full -> full configuration I described in my first post? This is very important because I am getting this setup calibrated next week.

Thanks again!
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post #6 of 10 Old 01-16-2013, 10:56 AM
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Then the optimal settings is

MadVR->Limited
NVidia -> Full
TV->Limited

This way you keep BTB and WTW information for black and white level calibrations if you need to play the calibration video from MadVR (and only from MadVR). Whenever you set MadVR to full range, BTB and WTW information are clipped from the MadVR output already. There is no way to get it back afterwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iorek View Post

If I'm understanding you correctly, the optimal settings for my setup would be RGB Full from video card -> RGB Limited set on TV -> RGB Limited set in MadVR? To be clear, I don't care about anything but the video quality of PotPlayer.

Correct on above.
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post #7 of 10 Old 01-16-2013, 08:28 PM
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I hope you don't mind me piggybacking on this thread as I have a similar question, but I'm using an AMD Card.
I have the driver set to full range RGB, as well as madvr. However, I'm not sure if my TV can even support full range RGB. (sony 46ex500) there are no options in the menu to select limited or full range. what is the proper configuration for my TV? thanks.
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post #8 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 06:51 AM
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Either set your video card driver to limited range or MadVR to limited but not both. Consumer TVs all defaults to limited range RGB with some give you the option to configure full range RGB.

Limited range RGB is a concumer electronics industry standard. DVD players, blu ray players, cable box, satellite box, TV, camcorders all use this standard.

Full range RGB a PC standard, PCs and PC monitors use this standard.

PCs and TVs are hardly match made in heaven smile.gif
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post #9 of 10 Old 01-17-2013, 08:47 AM
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if you put the TV in 'PC Mode' however, the TV will (all the ones that i know of) will default to full RGB as they will be expecting pc input
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post #10 of 10 Old 01-18-2013, 12:20 AM
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my tv doesn't have a pc mode. It does however have a mode called GRAPHICS. I wonder if that is the same thing?

edit: just checked the manual and it says:

To view PC content set Scene Select to
Graphics, Wide Mode to Full, and Display Area to Full Pixel.

does this mean it is displaing full range rgb in graphics mode?
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