Here is what I am starting with.... What else do I need to add? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 01-29-2013, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I am wanting to have an HTPC. I am going to convert an old desktop I have to fill this void. Bellow you will see the specs of the computer.

I need to know if what I already have is sufficient and what else I need to add to it.

Windows 7 32 bit is installed. Would 64 bit give me any advantages?

I know I need a vid card as it is using integrated graphics now. (Or atleast I think)

I'm still trying to decide if I want to go with Ceton or Silicon Dust for the tuner.

Thanks for the help!!!

Processor a Main Circuit Board b
2.80 gigahertz Intel Core2 Duo
64 kilobyte primary memory cache
3072 kilobyte secondary memory cache
64-bit ready
Multi-core (2 total)
Not hyper-threaded Board: Dell Inc. 0G679R A00
Bus Clock: 266 megahertz

Drives Memory Modules c,d
499.96 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
482.12 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GH30N ATA Device [Optical drive]

ST3500620AS [Hard drive] (500.11 GB) -- drive 0, s/n 9QMAYESG, rev DE13, SMART Status: Healthy 3318 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory

Slot 'DIMM1' has 1024 MB (serial number 859C0D0D)
Slot 'DIMM2' has 1024 MB (serial number 776B0D6B)
Slot 'DIMM3' has 1024 MB (serial number 776B0DFB)
Slot 'DIMM4' has 1024 MB (serial number 776B0DF7)
Local Drive Volumes

c: (NTFS on drive 0) 499.96 GB 482.12 GB free

Network Drives
None discovered

Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller (2x) Intel(R) G33/G31 Express Chipset Family [Display adapter]

Bus Adapters Multimedia
Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2934
Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2935
Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2936
Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2937
Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2938
Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2939
Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 293A
Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 293C High Definition Audio Device
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post #2 of 25 Old 01-29-2013, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty11 View Post

I am wanting to have an HTPC. I am going to convert an old desktop I have to fill this void. Bellow you will see the specs of the computer.

I need to know if what I already have is sufficient and what else I need to add to it.

Other than a video card, you have a great system to serve as HTPC duties.

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Windows 7 32 bit is installed. Would 64 bit give me any advantages?

Absolutely none. You only have 4GB of RAM.

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I'm still trying to decide if I want to go with Ceton or Silicon Dust for the tuner.

I use the Silicon Dust HDHomerun Prime (2 of them), and record just fine on a Core2Duo machine. I prefer the HDHomeruns because I have multiple HTPCs in the house, and their tuner pooling is the main advantage.
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post #3 of 25 Old 01-29-2013, 07:37 PM
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The InfiniTV requires a PCI Express port. Make sure your motherboard has one of those (unless you're looking at the external USB version). Also, you're going to want something with HDMI out unless you're watching TV on a PC monitor. No advantage to 64-bit. Better off sticking with what you have. Installing CPU-Z (http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html) will give you a better idea what your hardware is capable of.

A 500 Gb drive seems like a lot, but you'll chew it up quickly once you start recording TV shows.
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post #4 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool.

What video card would you guys recommend?
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post #5 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 09:55 AM
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Check to see you have a PCI-e x 16 slot before you buy any video card! I've had great success with cheap $20 ATi cards like the HD4550, HD5450 & HD6450 - and I mean literally, $20

What's your display going to be? Any AVR/speakers or are you just tinkering with TV on a PC?
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post #6 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Andrew Hornfeck View Post

Check to see you have a PCI-e x 16 slot before you buy any video card! I've had great success with cheap $20 ATi cards like the HD4550, HD5450 & HD6450 - and I mean literally, $20

What's your display going to be? Any AVR/speakers or are you just tinkering with TV on a PC?

Display is going to be TV's and projector via extenders.
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post #7 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Puwaha View Post

Other than a video card, you have a great system to serve as HTPC duties.
Absolutely none. You only have 4GB of RAM.
I use the Silicon Dust HDHomerun Prime (2 of them), and record just fine on a Core2Duo machine. I prefer the HDHomeruns because I have multiple HTPCs in the house, and their tuner pooling is the main advantage.

32-bit Windows can only use a maximum of 4GB of memory across the whole system (including video memory). Using 64-bit will allow you to utilize all 4GB of what you have installed instead of the 3.3GB it is currently recognizing.
But as Puwaha stated, you're on the border of this limitation and you may not see a noticeable impact by going to 64-bit.

Also, with Windows 7 32-bit, you may have trouble using a hard drive over 2TB without chaning some setttings (use GUID instead of MBR) from their default. The only advantage of 64-bit is you can have more system memory and it is better at handling very large data files.

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post #8 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pioneer_Elte View Post

32-bit Windows can only use a maximum of 4GB of memory across the whole system (including video memory). Using 64-bit will allow you to utilize all 4GB of what you have installed instead of the 3.3GB it is currently recognizing.
But as Puwaha stated, you're on the border of this limitation and you may not see a noticeable impact by going to 64-bit.

Also, with Windows 7 32-bit, you may have trouble using a hard drive over 2TB without chaning some setttings (use GUID instead of MBR) from their default. The only advantage of 64-bit is you can have more system memory and it is better at handling very large data files.

So I guess then the question is: Is my motherboard capable of utilizing more than 4GB of ram & would this extram ram make any noticable difference in a HTPC setting?
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post #9 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 11:11 AM
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I disagree that a x64 system doesn't offer any benefits especially if you are using extenders or other functionality.

This isn't 2005. There is no reason to be scared of x64 these days unless you are using some really old hardware.
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post #10 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 11:12 AM
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So I guess then the question is: Is my motherboard capable of utilizing more than 4GB of ram & would this extram ram make any noticable difference in a HTPC setting?

Based on your printo"Not hyper-threaded Board: Dell Inc. 0G679R A00"00" it appears that you are using an Dell Inspiron 530/530s series computer and your motherboard maxes out at 4GB, so I would suggest that you use the money saved by staying with 32-bit and invest it in a dedicated video-card with HDMI out. Unless you plan on having many things open at once, you should be ok with what you have. Remember, if your system runs out of memory, it will start using the hard drive as virtual memory, so bumping up the amount Windows can use will help mitigate this if it occurs and using a SSD for only your boot-drive is also another workaround.

Check out this page on Microsoft's website on how to change your Virtual Memory setting: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/Change-the-size-of-virtual-memory

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post #11 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by assassin View Post

I disagree that a x64 system doesn't offer any benefits especially if you are using extenders or other functionality.

This isn't 2005. There is no reason to be scared of x64 these days unless you are using some really old hardware.

+1 to this.

However the OP already has Windows 7 x86 installed. I wouldn't re-install just for the sake of changing to x64. I would only re-install x64 if there's something that's not supported by x86 that's desired. I think that's what he's asking.

 

 

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post #12 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 11:16 AM
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I disagree that a x64 system doesn't offer any benefits especially if you are using extenders or other functionality.

This isn't 2005. There is no reason to be scared of x64 these days unless you are using some really old hardware.

I agree, but it appears he's trying to make use of an older Dell Inspiron for his HTPC and using 32-bit may give him less problems down the road as far as compatibily and drivers are concerned.
I think the best solution would be to determine if you can even get 64-bit drivers for your hardware without going through too much trouble. If you can't, that will make your decision easier.

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post #13 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 11:21 AM
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+1 on the HD6450. I'm running two of those (one on my workstation and one on an HTPC). Both work great. I use a passively cooled Gigabyte HD4550 on a different machine, too. Also works fine.
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post #14 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Pioneer_Elte View Post

I agree, but it appears he's trying to make use of an older Dell Inspiron for his HTPC and using 32-bit may give him less problems down the road as far as compatibily and drivers are concerned.
I think the best solution would be to determine if you can even get 64-bit drivers for your hardware without going through too much trouble. If you can't, that will make your decision easier.

Yes it is an Inspiron 530. I certainly don't mind refreshing the machine with 64 bit Win 7 if I need to. I just did a fresh install of 32 bit.
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post #15 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 02:03 PM
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After reviewing the Dell Inspiron 530 Manual it seems to have 2 PCI slots, 1 PCIe X 1 and 1 PCIe X 16 slots. He should be able to easily add a video card. And, my suggestion (seeing as I'm running several systems on Win 7 Home Premium x86) would be to address transitioning to 64-bit should he experience limitations down the road.
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post #16 of 25 Old 01-30-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Andrew Hornfeck View Post

After reviewing the Dell Inspiron 530 Manual it seems to have 2 PCI slots, 1 PCIe X 1 and 1 PCIe X 16 slots. He should be able to easily add a video card. And, my suggestion (seeing as I'm running several systems on Win 7 Home Premium x86) would be to address transitioning to 64-bit should he experience limitations down the road.

Would you recomend me going on and doing it now before I start adding software to my fresh install and have reinstall everything later on down the road?
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post #17 of 25 Old 01-31-2013, 03:41 PM
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So sorry -- I was NOT clear. I'd suggest sticking with the 32 bit you have already loaded... use it, it's there. If down the road you find issue then consider using 64-bit. Use what you have first (32bit OS), add the video card so you have HDMI, tuner.... wait a minute... you never said you need HDMI for anything!

What TV and how do you plan to connect to it? HDMI? If you're using extenders for the PJ then you may not even need a new video card... check your Device Manager and see what Video card your system has integrated - it may be sufficient, TRY IT! Load the latest drivers as well before you give up although If you need HDMI or something more powerful then spend a quick $20~30 on a HD4550, HD5450, or HD6450 and you're there!

Once the PC is displaying as you need on the TV, load/play a DVD and check out the TaskManager's CPU usage. This should be an easy test and should pass without much trouble seeing as DVD is only 720x480... without having a HD tuner you could download some sample mpeg-2 files (.ts or something) to stress your CPU/GPU even before you buy the CableCard device. These are baby steps toward your final system. You don't have to do them if you feel comfortable buying the video card, CableCard device and such as one step.
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post #18 of 25 Old 01-31-2013, 11:22 PM
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So sorry -- I was NOT clear. I'd suggest sticking with the 32 bit you have already loaded... use it, it's there. If down the road you find issue then consider using 64-bit.

Wait... I'm confused. What sort of "issue" would anyone have on a 32 bit OS, that a 64 bit OS would resolve? Genuine question.
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post #19 of 25 Old 01-31-2013, 11:53 PM
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Off the top of my head, extra memory needed for multiple extenders. 32bit cannot address more than ~4GB of RAM.
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post #20 of 25 Old 01-31-2013, 11:55 PM
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Wait... I'm confused. What sort of "issue" would anyone have on a 32 bit OS, that a 64 bit OS would resolve? Genuine question.

My understanding is that 64-bit systems are better for memory utilization and, in general, instances in which you're running big, demanding applications like Photoshop, video editing or scientific applications. Since people rarely do things like that on ordinary PC's, I usually recommend sticking with the more established 32-bit operating systems. My desktop PC is 64 bit (Since I run circuit simulators, Lab View and Matlab). Every other PC in the house is 32-bit.

There are quite a few posts here in which somebody has some nagging problem on a 64-bit Windows 7 install that you wouldn't have on a 32-bit system. Why take on the added hassle if there's really no performance-related reason for doing it?
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post #21 of 25 Old 02-01-2013, 05:58 AM
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My understanding is that 64-bit systems are better for memory utilization and, in general, instances in which you're running big, demanding applications like Photoshop, video editing or scientific applications. Since people rarely do things like that on ordinary PC's, I usually recommend sticking with the more established 32-bit operating systems. My desktop PC is 64 bit (Since I run circuit simulators, Lab View and Matlab). Every other PC in the house is 32-bit.

There are quite a few posts here in which somebody has some nagging problem on a 64-bit Windows 7 install that you wouldn't have on a 32-bit system. Why take on the added hassle if there's really no performance-related reason for doing it?

I agree with ajkrishock. I do Structural Analysis at work and have been using 64-bit Linux/Windows for almost 8 years. Currently, the only 64-bit software I have on my machine is the FEA software, everything else is 32-bit software. Keep in mind that just because you have a 64-bit OS, all of your stuff won't necessarily run any faster. You need to install/run the 64-bit version of the software to take advantage of 64-bit. Since many applications don't have both a 32-bit and 64-bit version, you won't reap the benefits. Think of it as having a 4K television but your cable signal only comes in at 1080i. Ignoring upscaling, you're still only getting a 1080i picture even though the tv is capable of 4K resolution.

Software aside, the only other advantage would be that Windows can see and use more than 4 GB of memory and handle large files easier (couple GB+ file size). Since your motherboard can only accept up to 4 GB of memory, and you are already there (3.3GB with Win 7-32bit), what ajkrishock, Andrew Hornfeck, myself and a few others are suggesting is to see if you actually utilize all of the memory that your system has first. If you don't, you won't see any of the benefits that switching to a 64-bit OS has to offer, and will pay for something you may not need.

If you do need all 4 GB of memory, then 64-bit is an option, but again you are already at you system's max memory and can't add anymore.

Hope this helps and doesn't make it more confusing.

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post #22 of 25 Old 02-01-2013, 07:00 AM
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There are plenty of valid reasons for running x64 but for HTPC purposes, the biggest is extenders. Even if the apps you are running are 32bit, each app may only have access to 4GB of RAM but using an x64 OS with more RAM will allow more x86 apps to use the additional RAM. An x86 OS will mean that each instance of apps can only share up to 4GB, but an x64 OS will allow them to share more than that but x86 apps will be limited to 4GB each instance.

4GB and x86 is sufficient for most HTPC installations (especially if not doing any transcoding) but the cost difference to go to 8GB and x64 is negligible these days. That said, I agree with Andrew. If you already have x86 installed, go ahead and try it before installing x64. If you are starting fresh, x64 is what I would recommend.
Quote:
There are quite a few posts here in which somebody has some nagging problem on a 64-bit Windows 7 install that you wouldn't have on a 32-bit system.
I have not run x86 since Vista was released and I've never had a problem related to x86/x64 apps. And I run some pretty obscure proprietary apps. XP x64 was a different story.
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post #23 of 25 Old 02-01-2013, 12:15 PM
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x64 will run any 32 bit HTPC application without issue... while allowing better memory utilization on the OS side... and all the x64 benefits...

I'm not sure why anyone with a choice would not use x64 > 32bit.

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post #24 of 25 Old 02-02-2013, 01:44 AM
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There are plenty of valid reasons for running x64 but for HTPC purposes, the biggest is extenders. Even if the apps you are running are 32bit, each app may only have access to 4GB of RAM but using an x64 OS with more RAM will allow more x86 apps to use the additional RAM. An x86 OS will mean that each instance of apps can only share up to 4GB, but an x64 OS will allow them to share more than that but x86 apps will be limited to 4GB each instance.

I'm not sure you explained that correctly. Each application gets a memory map/address space of 4GB to play with on a 32 bit system... regardless of the physical amount of memory you have installed. If you run two apps that want the full 4GB each (technically because of the way Windows works it only ever has access to 2GB of that 4GB virtual memory pool), and your system only has 4GB... then you swap to virtual memory as the MMU allows.

I'm sure you were meaning the physical 4GB is being shared... but it's important to make the distinction that the application does not give one flip about how much physical memory you have installed, and what other applications are running that it is sharing that physical memory with. That is the OS' job of providing that abstration layer

I totally understand how memory is mapped... I helped design a virtual memory system for a Motorola CPU that didn't have a dedicated MMU for the AmigaOS... waaaay back in the day... but no one has answered my question:

What sort of "issue" would anyone have on a 32 bit OS, that a 64 bit OS would resolve?
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post #25 of 25 Old 02-02-2013, 02:02 AM
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x64 will run any 32 bit HTPC application without issue... while allowing better memory utilization on the OS side... and all the x64 benefits...

I'm not sure why anyone with a choice would not use x64 > 32bit.

Because Windows' implementation of x64 is kind of borked? I mean two registry branches? Wow6432Node? Two system folders? Why are there 64bit applications and DLLs in the "System32" folder? Two program files folders? Requiring signed drivers on x64? No upgrade path from 32->64bit? Odd application compatibility issues... like do I run IE 32 bit or 64 bit? How about Media Player? Why doesn't my plugin work in IE 64? So do I install the 32 bit codecs, or the 64 bit ones?


(yes, I know these are all facetious questions... but they are all valid ones concerning Windows x64)
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