H.265/HEVC finalized - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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H.264's replacement is here, although it will be a long time before its in use looks like - one H.265 decoder at CES was a quad core just to decode HEVC. Anyhoo, here:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/147000-h-265-standard-finalized-could-finally-replace-mpeg-2-and-usher-in-uhdtv

Hopefully MPEG 2 will now die out.

Interesting, no?
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post #2 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 01:10 PM
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So my i3-550 won't handle it? What's so wrong with h.264 and MPEG2 anyhow? I need to spend more $$ to handle this format?

I am wondering if the CableCo's really want to do that for STB's.. Oh, they'll just pass it on so they don't care do they.

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post #3 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

H.264's replacement is here, although it will be a long time before its in use looks like - one H.265 decoder at CES was a quad core just to decode HEVC. Anyhoo, here:

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/147000-h-265-standard-finalized-could-finally-replace-mpeg-2-and-usher-in-uhdtv

Hopefully MPEG 2 will now die out.

Interesting, no?

MPEG 2 can't die out very rapidly. It's the DVD standard and the ATSC broadcast standard. All the existing equipment would have to change. It would have a nice impact on streaming however.
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post #4 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rcrach View Post

MPEG 2 can't die out very rapidly. It's the DVD standard and the ATSC broadcast standard. All the existing equipment would have to change. It would have a nice impact on streaming however.

Old standards die hard, just look at all those "professional" laptops that still include vga ports because they use old projection equipment with vga ports smile.gif
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post #5 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

So my i3-550 won't handle it? What's so wrong with h.264 and MPEG2 anyhow? I need to spend more $$ to handle this format?

I am wondering if the CableCo's really want to do that for STB's.. Oh, they'll just pass it on so they don't care do they.

Simple - taking up less space with a higher bandwidth data stream. UHD/4K, high frame rate, full frame 3D, bluray streaming, more HD channels, more interactive commercials, etc etc etc.

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post #6 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 01:52 PM
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I know. I just hate having to spend more money to upgrade my stuff, whether it be "my stuff" or other's stuff from the CableCo because they aren't going to absorb it. What I have works fine and is paid for.

Fortunately there will be a bit of time to accommodate this and hopefully it can be done with a GPU upgrade and not a whole system upgrade.

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post #7 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd say a GPU upgrade will do it, but H.265 is way better for streaming that MPEG-2 and H.264. I hope it will die out in the broadcast space, at least.
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post #8 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiddles88 View Post

I'd say a GPU upgrade will do it, but H.265 is way better for streaming that MPEG-2 and H.264. I hope it will die out in the broadcast space, at least.

I wonder if the GT-430 I have already will deal with it.

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post #9 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 02:35 PM
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It will not. That is just wishful thinking.

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post #10 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 02:55 PM
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Okay maybe that is an opinion from the dictator or do you have some more information that supports that opinion. tongue.gif

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post #11 of 33 Old 01-30-2013, 03:07 PM
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Okay maybe that is an opinion from the dictator or do you have some more information that supports that opinion. tongue.gif

No, it has to be pointy
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post #12 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 05:44 AM
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Lol

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #13 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 08:09 AM
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Does anybody know for a fact if an nVidia GT430 is powerfull enough for decoding of h.265?

I searched but could not find this.

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post #14 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 08:18 AM
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Wouldn't the GPU chipset have to be built with support for h.265 in mind? Or am I as wrong as can be?
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post #15 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post

Wouldn't the GPU chipset have to be built with support for h.265 in mind? Or am I as wrong as can be?

Probably for h/w decoding but maybe f/w can make the h/w do it.

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post #16 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 08:46 AM
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h264 was standardized like 10 years ago and it didn't really become mainstream until 2008 or 2009 (I guess that's debatable - ask the "encoding scene"). I know Pure View for Nvidia cards didn't enable hardware acceleration until a year or two after it was adopted as the next standard.

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post #17 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Probably for h/w decoding but maybe f/w can make the h/w do it.

Yes and no. There are 2 ways of getting hardware decoding out of modern GPUs

First method is using the built in video processing unit in the GPU (what Nvidia calls PureVideo for example), which is a very limited chip, made specifically to decode certain codecs (h.264,VC-1,MPEG2) and that`s about it. You can probably forget about that route.

Second one is accessing the power of a modern GPUs shaders, via an API like CUDA (what Nev uses for his LAV Decoders) or OpenCL etc to code a decoder for h.265. This is a far more flexible solution in terms of computing power and flexibility of those shaders. Depending on the floating point and integer power needed to decode h.265 , it`s possibile that the GT430 may or may not have the power to do it. Until the world (developers who are involved in writing decoder/libraries for such applications) see some specs and whitepapers for h.264, nobody knows, only the developers who were involved in creating the standard.
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post #18 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 10:01 AM
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That was as good an answer as can be expected at this time. Until LAV or another decoder is re-written to decode h.265 we will not know what chip will be the minimum chip that is able to decode it fast enough to avoid dropped frames.

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post #19 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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The really depressing part is that it will take forever for HEVC to get to the current state of H.264. As soon as your introduce change a lot people just flip out.
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post #20 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 01:04 PM
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I was still using xvid until some time in 2010 or 2011

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post #21 of 33 Old 01-31-2013, 01:31 PM
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True.

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post #22 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post

Wouldn't the GPU chipset have to be built with support for h.265 in mind? Or am I as wrong as can be?

You are correct. It should be self-evident that the card does not contain an h265 decoder - the GPU was designed circa 2009, went on sale in 2010 and h265 was just standardized years later. It is going to be at least one more generation before a regular nvidia GPU has an h265 hardware decoder.

As for a shader or OpenCL based decoder, that ain't going to happen either. The GT430 has bottom of the barrel math performance, generally struggling to even match the performance of some of the lower-end cards of the previous generation. I couldn't find a solid reference, but h265 is expected to be significantly more math intensive to decode than h264 is.

Plus, nobody has an h264 decoder native to either OpenCL or CUDA (ok CORE has one that is part CUDA, but it ain't open source). Greeneyez was incorrect when he stated that the LAV filter uses CUDA. What the LAV filter uses is CUVID which is Nvidia's way of exposing the card's own h264 hardware decoder through CUDA. Under the hood, it is exactly the same part of the GPU that decodes video via DXVA - LAV does not contain an h264 decoder itself, it only knows how to use the hardware decoders.

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post #23 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 04:24 AM
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Now that is better. From further reading and a PM to renethx I now know a bit more about video cards. Basically no video cards sold today will decode h.265 and the only solution for older cards is software decoding in the CPU. It is a good thing this will take a while and will probably be when I upgrade my video card.

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post #24 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 06:07 AM
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Also, the first generation of cards with H.265 support will probably not support MVC decoding as that extention to the spec is not expected until 2014.
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post #25 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 07:03 AM
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So I have forever in computer terms. I'm not compelled to upgrade my video card for jinc in madVR but will do it when h.265 is prevelent.

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post #26 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 10:59 AM
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So I have forever in computer terms
And a day.
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post #27 of 33 Old 02-01-2013, 11:00 AM
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LOL!

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post #28 of 33 Old 02-10-2013, 08:22 AM
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H.265/HEVC will be implemented way more faster than H.264
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post #29 of 33 Old 02-10-2013, 08:25 AM
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From what source to you garner this?

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post #30 of 33 Old 02-10-2013, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

From what source to you garner this?

H.265 have been in the works for years, software & hardware companies have been testing h.265 for years as well, many have working solutions continually improving

http://www.researchandmarkets.com/research/82svx6/hevc_decoding_in

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/docomo-to-license-hevc-decoding-software-2013-02-04

There will be a announcement from Sony later this month
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