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post #631 of 1446 Old 10-29-2013, 07:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Mfusick, note that I said development is all but dead, not that the software won't still work. There hasn't been a WMC update in ages..

They updated WMC when they put out Win8.1, which was not that long ago. The three modern versions of WMC are:

Windows 8.1 - 6.3.9200.16384
Windows 8 - 6.2.9600.16384
Windows 7 - 6.1.7601.17514
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post #632 of 1446 Old 10-29-2013, 07:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

Most people aren't bothered by this the way you and I are, so they might be simply ignoring.

AFAIK, there will not be custom entrypoints available in MB3 classic. I know this forum isn't relevant now, but if anyone has a different reference saying they will have such entrypoints then please share http://community.mediabrowser.tv/permalinks/14563/mb3-classic-entry


FWIW, it will probably be easiest for MB3 to hook into WMC for Live TV, Recorded TV, and Recording Schedule / Guide. One of the links in my signature shows a pretty sweet way to do this with XBMC even though it's not a mainstream supported feature of XBMC. I'm sure the MB team can come up with something equally or more impressive. As long as your HTPC is running off an SSD you are not going to notice much delay. I've been sure of other things that didn't pan out, so grain of salt advice

I find it odd they do not carry over the MB2.6 setup info.
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post #633 of 1446 Old 10-29-2013, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

The registry hack has nothing to do with WMC but is GPU specific. With AMD you can set this in CCC but with intel and nVidia you need to to the "hack" which is a simple as running madshi's script to do it for you.

The flat panel issue really isn't an issue because when WMC was initially written, flat panel meant LCD desktop monitor as flat panel TV's were just then coming to market. As flat panel TV's are a TV and not a monitor, they expect input just like any other TV does so selecting TV instead make perfect sense.

Also, just so nobody gets any misinformation from you, I want to correct you here. It most certainly does have something to do with WMC sending out video level blacks (16-235). A post from Foxbat121 on these forums sums it up perfectly:
Quote:
All Panasonic TVs are using 16-235 video range while PCs normally use 0-255 PC range. But if you connect PC to TV via HDMI, most video card will convert PC range to video range on HDMI port. Some video card let you pick output type. Some may not. On the PC side of things, Windows desktop and most applications output full PC range, including WMP. However, Windows Media Center by default output limited video range. I'm not sure how a HDMI output of the video card will do to the WMC default output (convert twice? YEP, it does and washes out blacks). I always apply registry hack to force WMC output full range because I typically use PC monitor for viewing and NEVER use TVs for my PC to avoid such confusions.

There is no fool proof way to guarantee the consistent color space matching between PC and TVs. Just remember, all regular video sources are encoded as limited range. TVs are typically designed to handle the limited range, any conversion to other range will introduce unnecessary conversion artifacts in the middle.

Here's more info on it here: http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/06/fixing-media-centers-poor-black-levels.html

Most programs send out a 0-255 signal and let the video card keep it if it's connected DVI to a monitor, or converts it to 16-235 if connected through HDMI. WMC, however, does not do this and requires the registry hack for every GPU that defaults to 16-235 conversion for its hdmi output.
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post #634 of 1446 Old 10-29-2013, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

They updated WMC when they put out Win8.1, which was not that long ago. The three modern versions of WMC are:

Windows 8.1 - 6.3.9200.16384
Windows 8 - 6.2.9200.16384
Windows 7 - 6.1.7601.17514

Thanks, what additional features were added?
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post #635 of 1446 Old 10-29-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Thanks, what additional features were added?
None, lol
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post #636 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

The registry hack has nothing to do with WMC but is GPU specific. With AMD you can set this in CCC but with intel and nVidia you need to to the "hack" which is a simple as running madshi's script to do it for you.

The flat panel issue really isn't an issue because when WMC was initially written, flat panel meant LCD desktop monitor as flat panel TV's were just then coming to market. As flat panel TV's are a TV and not a monitor, they expect input just like any other TV does so selecting TV instead make perfect sense.

Also, just so nobody gets any misinformation from you, I want to correct you here. It most certainly does have something to do with WMC sending out video level blacks (16-235). A post from Foxbat121 on these forums sums it up perfectly:
Quote:
All Panasonic TVs are using 16-235 video range while PCs normally use 0-255 PC range. But if you connect PC to TV via HDMI, most video card will convert PC range to video range on HDMI port. Some video card let you pick output type. Some may not. On the PC side of things, Windows desktop and most applications output full PC range, including WMP. However, Windows Media Center by default output limited video range. I'm not sure how a HDMI output of the video card will do to the WMC default output (convert twice? YEP, it does and washes out blacks). I always apply registry hack to force WMC output full range because I typically use PC monitor for viewing and NEVER use TVs for my PC to avoid such confusions.

There is no fool proof way to guarantee the consistent color space matching between PC and TVs. Just remember, all regular video sources are encoded as limited range. TVs are typically designed to handle the limited range, any conversion to other range will introduce unnecessary conversion artifacts in the middle.

Here's more info on it here: http://www.hack7mc.com/2009/06/fixing-media-centers-poor-black-levels.html

Most programs send out a 0-255 signal and let the video card keep it if it's connected DVI to a monitor, or converts it to 16-235 if connected through HDMI. WMC, however, does not do this and requires the registry hack for every GPU that defaults to 16-235 conversion for its hdmi output.

I understand all this and applied the registry hack. My point is that intel and nVidia will let not allow 0-255 without the hack whereas AMD will, in my understanding of the issue. My point is and remains that my HTPC is an appliance.. Sure it takes a bit of work and time to set it up but it really isn't that big of deal considering the vast benefit it provides.

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post #637 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

They updated WMC when they put out Win8.1, which was not that long ago. The three modern versions of WMC are:

Windows 8.1 - 6.3.9200.16384
Windows 8 - 6.2.9200.16384
Windows 7 - 6.1.7601.17514

Thanks, what additional features were added?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Thanks, what additional features were added?
None, lol

I run Win7, but yeah I haven't read or heard that there is anything new here other than removal of the "exclusive mode" and that occurred in Win8 actually. The thing is that this doesn't matter. Even when Win7 is out of extended support it isn't likely that it will just quit working because it is no longer in support. The only thing that concerns me slightly is that the guide data will be ended at that time but since WMC, including guide date, is included in Win8 for an additional fee it would seem that it would be provided at least until the end extended support for that product which is January 10, 2023, over 9 years from now so there is some time for something else to come along and replace it anyhow and I am not going to fret this at this time. The worst case is that Microsoft figures a way to charge a fee for guide data support or an alternate source needs to be hacked into WMC. I have far larger issues to loose sleep over in my life than any of this.

Back on point, MB3 is a fine product now in beta testing. I just cannot wait until the MB3 Theater is out to test which is when again, Luke??

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post #638 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post


Back on point, MB3 is a fine product now in beta testing. I just cannot wait until the MB3 Theater is out to test which is when again, Luke??

Soon.
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post #639 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I understand all this and applied the registry hack. My point is that intel and nVidia will let not allow 0-255 without the hack whereas AMD will, in my understanding of the issue. My point is and remains that my HTPC is an appliance.. Sure it takes a bit of work and time to set it up but it really isn't that big of deal considering the vast benefit it provides.

Umm, you said it has nothing to do with WMC. It actually has everything to do with WMC as it's the program sending out 16-235 instead of 0-255. You need to change the registry for AMD cards as well if you leave your CCC settings at default. If you mess with the CCC settings, then you will need to change all your other video players (eg MPC-HC) settings as well, as they default to 0-255. WMC is the odd duck.
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post #640 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 07:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emcdade View Post

Thanks, what additional features were added?

None, but new features has never been a requirement for an update.
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post #641 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 07:04 AM
 
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Anyone know if MB3 will ever be setup to import the settings from MB2.6? It is a lot of work to setup MB3 the way my MB2.6 is setup.
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post #642 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Anyone know if MB3 will ever be setup to import the settings from MB2.6? It is a lot of work to setup MB3 the way my MB2.6 is setup.

Such as?
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post #643 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 07:20 AM
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I didn't find it all that difficult but I use Diamond Theme which is pretty simple to set up.

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post #644 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 07:38 AM
 
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I have to manually select the folder.jpg used in all of my collections:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage 
No problem with setting up collections again, just wondering why it automatically understands and uses the folder.jpg in the movie folders but ignores it in the collections folders. Should it be called something other than folder.jpg?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeMB 
I think this is just an mb2 convention that hasn't been brought forward to it yet. collections have the ability to hold multiple media paths. internally we create a folder that represents the collection and that's where the images go when you edit them through the web interface.

Now it just so happens that your collection only has one path, so naturally you would expect images contained within to apply to the collection. and that does make sense.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1455591/media-browser-3-is-coming/420#post_23739354


Also, the shortcut issue is making me not have most of my videos showing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage 
The shortcut issue - would have to revisit it and decide how to use the shortcuts since they do not work like they did in MB2. That is huge since my movies are spread out over a couple of HDDs and about half my movies are non-categorized so they fall into the "Other Movies" collection.
The other issue is that every time I finished watching a BluRay in WinDVD 11 (not 11.5, but 11.0) and pressed stop, then either the Back key or the Green Button key on my Microsoft Remote Control, it would return me to a blank blue screen. The screen is the default WMC backdrop screen. At that point it would freeze WMC and I would have to CTRL-ALT-DEL out of it and fight Windows over closing WMC from the Task Manager. I did not bother to research much into that due to the shortcut issue. If I have to change how my shortcuts work then I am not going to change due to the huge number of shortcuts I have (around 100 or so). They all point to drive letters like in my previous post (and reposted, below).

In MB2, I use the following for my "Other Movies" collection and it does not work in MB3:

M:\DVD\Movies\Shortcut to What Dreams May Come (actual folder is located on the N:\ drive)
M:\DVD\Movies\Shortcut to 21 (actual folder is located on the O:\ drive)
M:\DVD\Movies\Shortcut to Arlington Road (actual folder is on the S:\ drive)

In MB2 the collection would populate with the movies, in MB3 it is an empty collection.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1455591/media-browser-3-is-coming/450#post_23740813


These things worked in MB2.6 but do not work in MB3 (unless they have been added since my posts). I understand that a major revision number is not necessarily backwards compatible. smile.gif
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post #645 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 07:49 AM
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Have you posted these in our forums? That's really the best place to make sure it doesn't get lost. And it also helps give us an idea of how many people are affected.

We are doing our best to make things easy but, it is a brand new application with no shared components whatsoever with MB2. There are a lot of undocumented, magic features that work in MB2 just by dropping certain files in certain locations. I want to move away from that sort of thing and get to a point where every feature is configurable through the web interface. That way everybody knows about it and everybody has a chance to use it. So it's a difficult balance between moving forward vs supporting every last MB2 convention. We support quite a few MB2 features but at some point we have to move forward. Look at how long everyone has had to wait for MBT (and are still waiting).
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post #646 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by lukemb View Post

Have you posted these in our forums? That's really the best place to make sure it doesn't get lost. And it also helps give us an idea of how many people are affected.

We are doing our best to make things easy but, it is a brand new application with no shared components whatsoever with MB2. There are a lot of undocumented, magic features that work in MB2 just by dropping certain files in certain locations. I want to move away from that sort of thing and get to a point where every feature is configurable through the web interface. That way everybody knows about it and everybody has a chance to use it. So it's a difficult balance between moving forward vs supporting every last MB2 convention. We support quite a few MB2 features but at some point we have to move forward. Look at how long everyone has had to wait for MBT (and are still waiting).

HEAR HEAR!

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post #647 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 10:13 AM
 
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Have you posted these in our forums? That's really the best place to make sure it doesn't get lost. And it also helps give us an idea of how many people are affected.

We are doing our best to make things easy but, it is a brand new application with no shared components whatsoever with MB2. There are a lot of undocumented, magic features that work in MB2 just by dropping certain files in certain locations. I want to move away from that sort of thing and get to a point where every feature is configurable through the web interface. That way everybody knows about it and everybody has a chance to use it. So it's a difficult balance between moving forward vs supporting every last MB2 convention. We support quite a few MB2 features but at some point we have to move forward. Look at how long everyone has had to wait for MBT (and are still waiting).

Nope, but I will.
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post #648 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 10:21 AM
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Every time I get an email alert for this thread, I get excited... 'Maybe this time MBT really is coming, it's not just another tease or off-topic discussion!'

Remember the story about the boy who cried wolf... you can only fool people so many times. I'm just about to give up and concentrate my energies on XBMC.
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post #649 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 10:25 AM
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What happens in this thread is not under the control of the Media Browser development team so the "boy who cried wolf" analogy doesn't fit.

The server works well as does MB3 Classic and the android app. Use it now and enjoy it.

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post #650 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 10:43 AM
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Every time I get an email alert for this thread, I get excited... 'Maybe this time MBT really is coming, it's not just another tease or off-topic discussion!'

Remember the story about the boy who cried wolf... you can only fool people so many times. I'm just about to give up and concentrate my energies on XBMC.

Everyone please cease posting in this thread until MBT is released!

Oops, I guess this sent out an alert too. Sorry.

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post #651 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 10:53 AM
 
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Have you posted these in our forums? That's really the best place to make sure it doesn't get lost. And it also helps give us an idea of how many people are affected.

Errr...not sure where to post it on your forums. I am not even sure, any more, what version of MB3 is the best for me to use. I will use one HTPC which also houses all the HDDs where the movies are located, nothing more.
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post #652 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukemb View Post

Have you posted these in our forums? That's really the best place to make sure it doesn't get lost. And it also helps give us an idea of how many people are affected.

Errr...not sure where to post it on your forums. I am not even sure, any more, what version of MB3 is the best for me to use. I will use one HTPC which also houses all the HDDs where the movies are located, nothing more.

MB3 Theater feature requests

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post #653 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 11:42 AM
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The Windows 8.1 client is already looking really impressive.
I'm actually looking forward to it more than "Theater".
Would love to use this with my RT tablet.

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post #654 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 12:44 PM
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Such as?

One of the big things to import for people with large collections would probably be watched/unwatched status.

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post #655 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 01:12 PM
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It's true, ideally we'd have a way to transport that. But luckily that can be done with the trakt plugin, so there is at least a way to do it, even if not a built-in one.
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post #656 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by pittsoccer33 View Post

yikes from that thread it looks like ill be moving on from media browser completely. the developers make it sound like my current version will quit working entirely.

I would've thought entry point usage was much more common. why leave one main menu screen just to go into another one?

I never understood why people weren't concerned with entry points. I just couldn't go back and forth between two different menus that both had items labeled Movies and TV, so I set up entrypoints just like you with WMC, Mediabrowser, and MCThemer. Then an update borked my changes and I never got around to fixing it again, then switched. There is a pretty good WMC backend for XBMC if you are using Comcast or Fios w/o HBO. Anyway, for the "ONE MENU to RULE them ALL" crowd, I suppose you and I are in a minority of a minority niche

Please tell me the link in MB Theater doesn't take you to this page

eek.gif

Specific entry points to WMC are extremely easy to do and should be done. Anything less is pure lazy / unfinished
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post #657 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 03:30 PM
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this is how I have it set up



My HTPC front end set up
Integration for whole home ATSC, CableCARD, FM radio, Blu-Ray, HD-DVD, DVD, VHS control & capture, video games, and archived & streaming media playback
Mironto's Panasonic plasma black level restoration guide
Restore the initial MLL on a 2009 Panasonic plasma
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post #658 of 1446 Old 10-30-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Slayer View Post

I never understood why people weren't concerned with entry points. I just couldn't go back and forth between two different menus that both had items labeled Movies and TV, so I set up entrypoints just like you with WMC, Mediabrowser, and MCThemer. Then an update borked my changes and I never got around to fixing it again, then switched. There is a pretty good WMC backend for XBMC if you are using Comcast or Fios w/o HBO. Anyway, for the "ONE MENU to RULE them ALL" crowd, I suppose you and I are in a minority of a minority niche

Please tell me the link in MB Theater doesn't take you to this page

eek.gif

Specific entry points to WMC are extremely easy to do and should be done. Anything less is pure lazy / unfinished

I agree. With entry points you can have a much better integrated solution. For example, you could click on a " Live TV" link inside MB and open the live TV inside WMC. When you click back, you won't go to the WMC main page, but back to MB.

this is not specific to XBMC, it just uses the app launcher XBMC plug-in (I think that's the name) to invoke an external app that handles the different entry points.
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post #659 of 1446 Old 10-31-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by danbez View Post

I agree. With entry points you can have a much better integrated solution. For example, you could click on a " Live TV" link inside MB and open the live TV inside WMC. When you click back, you won't go to the WMC main page, but back to MB.

this is not specific to XBMC, it just uses the app launcher XBMC plug-in (I think that's the name) to invoke an external app that handles the different entry points.

Two things. . .

1) Yes it would be much better, but it doesn't immediately solve the back button issue. For example, you can create all the WMC entry point shortcuts you want (to your desktop or taskbar just to verify) but they don't exit when you press the back button. Instead they return to the main menu of WMC.

2) Nothing about the wmc/xbmc shortcut solution I was referring to is specifically tied to xbmc. You are correct it uses the app launcher (advanced launcher) which can be invoked for just about anything including WMC shortcuts. The other piece is a nifty WMC plugin and application written by krustyreturns that actually does detect the back button being pressed to the top level menu and exits instead (returning to your prior application). Through a little trial and error we got rid of the dos prompts and quick desktop view as well, making it look seamless full screen to full screen.


Finally, as demonstrated by pittsoccer33, it was possible to make full use of the WMC menu as entrypoints to separate mediabrowser collections. Everything looks pretty slick that way, but now that MB3 will run standalone it is much easier just to go the other way and create specific shortcuts to WMC with a "back to MB3 capability" built-in
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post #660 of 1446 Old 10-31-2013, 11:53 AM
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Where can I find the MB3 server and latest Classic edition to dowload as full installables?

I want to download them now to try on this machine but keep them to install on a new build a bit later on.

I don;t like setup.exes that usually insist on downloading a full copy every time you run them. It wastes bandwidth for one thing!
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