Cannot believe all this time I never configured my TV settings for a Television rather than Flat Panel with my flat screen TV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Years!

I finally discovered setting media center for flat panel (I have an LED Tv on the wall) is not correct and zooms some of the image...

I changed to Television and can see the difference, it is weird though, that you can actually see more in the centering and sizing video then the reference image shows...

I also made the registry changes to fix the margins for the menus and guide etc..

I wonder how many out there dont know about this?

All of this was discovered by wondering why, when using 411 info debug, it said TV_mode false.....Now it says True
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post #2 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 09:10 AM
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I think that the scan issues can be dependent on your TV and its settings too. I have mine set to Flat Panel and I am not having this issue at all.

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post #3 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Same here, or so I thought. I set my TV for full pixel and every test image and video is perfect.

However, now in Television setting, you can in fact see MORE of the screen as proved by playing back the centering and sizing test video in media center.

Instead of seeing the women holding the pool sticks right up to the edge of the screen I can now see past the pool sticks for the first time ever
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post #4 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I think that the scan issues can be dependent on your TV and its settings too. I have mine set to Flat Panel and I am not having this issue at all.

Have you tested your overscan?

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post #5 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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By test, what do you mean? I have overscan set to 0 in the ATI control panel.

Here is where I discovered the changes I made, again, this was trigger my seeing TV mode as false in debug mode and doing a good search.

http://experts.windows.com/frms/windows_entertainment_and_connected_home/f/115/t/103348.aspx

Take a look down the thread and you can see screen shots of the sizing test video in media center. Mine looked like the first one for the last 4years. After changing to TV it now looks like the 2nd one where you can actually see MORE of the video than the reference image.
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post #6 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I think that the scan issues can be dependent on your TV and its settings too. I have mine set to Flat Panel and I am not having this issue at all.

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Originally Posted by Andy_Steb View Post

Have you tested your overscan?

It looks exactly the same using either Flat Panel or TV for me.

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post #7 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 10:23 AM
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I saw that problem previously mentioned somewhere & then set WMC to Television. I do like the explanation given in the link provided above. Why do the registry hack if setting to Television solves the problem?
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post #8 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I did the registry hack to adjust the margins and make the TV guide fill out the screen better, the way it did before, rather than look smaller with space on all 4 sides.
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post #9 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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If that's the case then your TV may in fact be doing the overscan for you.

What type of TV is it?
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post #10 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 11:02 AM
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Setting it to TV tells Media center NOT to apply any of its own over-scanning to the picture.

If your TV is over-scanning then everything is fine(except for the fact that your over-scanning). IF your TV is set up with 1:1 pixel mapping, then the Media center interface will be tucked in from the edges. The registry changes just move the mediacenter interface back out to the edges.

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post #11 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 11:03 AM
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I have a Samsung LN40-650A.

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post #12 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I have a Samsung LN40-650A.

Samsungs are weird. On mine how the image is displayed, and even what control I have over the color settings, etc., depends on how I name the input on the TV. To get proper (no) overscan I need to name the input "PC."
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post #13 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 11:13 AM
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http://www.w6rz.net/avshd709/MP4-2c.exe

Basic Sttings
5-Sharpness & Overscan.mp4

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post #14 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Andy_Steb View Post

http://www.w6rz.net/avshd709/MP4-2c.exe

Basic Sttings
5-Sharpness & Overscan.mp4

Are we really supposed to download and run this .exe file? eek.gif

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post #15 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 01:53 PM
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post #16 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 02:23 PM
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The downside is that TV is meant to be overscanned. I have numerous channels that display junk (sometimes flickering) along the top edge when WMC is configured for "Television". My local NBC HD channel displays a bright white pixel in the upper left corner at all times. So, I leave WMC set to "Flat Panel", which hides this noise like any STB would, and it's fine, because I use it only for Recorded TV. I use XBMC for everything else, and it is configured with zero overscan, so I get the 1:1 pixel mapping for everything I watch in XBMC. Using two programs like this means no compromising on settings or tedious flipping back and forth between settings. (The TV of course is set to Full Pixel at all times.)
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post #17 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Steb View Post

Setting it to TV tells Media center NOT to apply any of its own over-scanning to the picture.

If your TV is over-scanning then everything is fine(except for the fact that your over-scanning). IF your TV is set up with 1:1 pixel mapping, then the Media center interface will be tucked in from the edges. The registry changes just move the mediacenter interface back out to the edges.

Got it, the registry hack only affects the look of WMC & does not affect the movie picture size.
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post #18 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

The downside is that TV is meant to be overscanned. I have numerous channels that display junk (sometimes flickering) along the top edge when WMC is configured for "Television". My local NBC HD channel displays a bright white pixel in the upper left corner at all times. So, I leave WMC set to "Flat Panel", which hides this noise like any STB would, and it's fine, because I use it only for Recorded TV. I use XBMC for everything else, and it is configured with zero overscan, so I get the 1:1 pixel mapping for everything I watch in XBMC. Using two programs like this means no compromising on settings or tedious flipping back and forth between settings. (The TV of course is set to Full Pixel at all times.)

Excellent point.
My HD channels are fine. Some of my SD has garbage on the top edge. I have a cable card tuner so i have no reason to watch SD. My player of choice is mediacenter player, so having no overscan for me is important for my HD MKV's.

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post #19 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

The downside is that TV is meant to be overscanned. I have numerous channels that display junk (sometimes flickering) along the top edge when WMC is configured for "Television". My local NBC HD channel displays a bright white pixel in the upper left corner at all times. So, I leave WMC set to "Flat Panel", which hides this noise like any STB would, and it's fine, because I use it only for Recorded TV. I use XBMC for everything else, and it is configured with zero overscan, so I get the 1:1 pixel mapping for everything I watch in XBMC. Using two programs like this means no compromising on settings or tedious flipping back and forth between settings. (The TV of course is set to Full Pixel at all times.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy_Steb View Post

Excellent point.
My HD channels are fine. Some of my SD has garbage on the top edge. I have a cable card tuner so i have no reason to watch SD. My player of choice is mediacenter player, so having no overscan for me is important for my HD MKV's.

This is it right here.

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post #20 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

The downside is that TV is meant to be overscanned. I have numerous channels that display junk (sometimes flickering) along the top edge when WMC is configured for "Television". My local NBC HD channel displays a bright white pixel in the upper left corner at all times. So, I leave WMC set to "Flat Panel", which hides this noise like any STB would, and it's fine, because I use it only for Recorded TV. I use XBMC for everything else, and it is configured with zero overscan, so I get the 1:1 pixel mapping for everything I watch in XBMC. Using two programs like this means no compromising on settings or tedious flipping back and forth between settings. (The TV of course is set to Full Pixel at all times.)

That white line is the old SD VBI signal. Google it, what it is and why you get it when you watch old SD shows on HD channels is pretty interesting.

Looky here!
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post #21 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

The downside is that TV is meant to be overscanned. I have numerous channels that display junk (sometimes flickering) along the top edge when WMC is configured for "Television". My local NBC HD channel displays a bright white pixel in the upper left corner at all times. So, I leave WMC set to "Flat Panel", which hides this noise like any STB would, and it's fine, because I use it only for Recorded TV. I use XBMC for everything else, and it is configured with zero overscan, so I get the 1:1 pixel mapping for everything I watch in XBMC. Using two programs like this means no compromising on settings or tedious flipping back and forth between settings. (The TV of course is set to Full Pixel at all times.)

That white line is the old SD VBI signal. Google it, what it is and why you get it when you watch old SD shows on HD channels is pretty interesting.

Again, the bright white pixel in the upper left corner on my local NBC HD channel is always present, including during all HD shows like Law & Order SVU, Smash, Parks & Recreation, etc. Examining a screen shot in a paint program, it's actually a line of about 10 gray pixels that starts with a bright white one that's easily visible under normal viewing conditions. For whatever reason, NBC doesn't fill the full frame along the top, leaving a black bar about 10-15 pixels tall, and it displays this junk along the top edge. I've also seen other top-of-the-frame glitches on other HD channels in HD content, but it is more rare. Of course, whenever they switch to SD content, it's often there. (This is with my HD Homerun Prime Cablecard tuner, but I remember seeing the same thing a few years ago with Clear QAM when I first learned about the "Flat Panel" vs "Television" difference. It was this that made me abandon the "Television" experiment and go back to "Flat Panel", which is what I had always used, Nothing has changed since then.)

My take on it is that broadcast TV is meant to be overscanned, and you're not going to lose anything valuable by letting it work as designed. In fact, when you disable it, besides the top-line glitches, banners and scoreboards in various programs appear weirdly shifted into the interior of the picture, talking heads are smaller, and so forth, and everything just looks a little off. I suppose eliminating scaling might make some programs a tiny bit sharper, but I don't know that it's observable under normal conditions. Assuming you keep your TV in its Full Pixel mode, the only thing you really gain by eliminating overscan in WMC is the ability to show DVDs, MKVs, and whatnot in WMC without overscanning them, which is actually desirable and proper. I suppose people who care about this and want to use WMC for everything will simply have to put up with whatever glitches it reveals in their broadcast TV. Fortunately, I'm able to use WMC just for broadcast TV and XBMC for everything else, so I get overscanning for broadcast TV, while I get 1:1 pixel mapping for DVDs, MKVs, etc, including somewhat ironically, TV shows distributed in those formats, where the failure to overscan isn't a problem. (FWIW, this was not one of the reasons I started using XBMC. It's just something I realized after using XBMC for a while.)
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post #22 of 22 Old 02-08-2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawfish View Post

My take on it is that broadcast TV is meant to be overscanned, and you're not going to lose anything valuable by letting it work as designed. In fact, when you disable it, besides the top-line glitches, banners and scoreboards in various programs appear weirdly shifted into the interior of the picture, talking heads are smaller, and so forth, and everything just looks a little off. I suppose eliminating scaling might make some programs a tiny bit sharper, but I don't know that it's observable under normal conditions. Assuming you keep your TV in its Full Pixel mode, the only thing you really gain by eliminating overscan in WMC is the ability to show DVDs, MKVs, and whatnot in WMC without overscanning them, which is actually desirable and proper. I suppose people who care about this and want to use WMC for everything will simply have to put up with whatever glitches it reveals in their broadcast TV. Fortunately, I'm able to use WMC just for broadcast TV and XBMC for everything else, so I get overscanning for broadcast TV, while I get 1:1 pixel mapping for DVDs, MKVs, etc, including somewhat ironically, TV shows distributed in those formats, where the failure to overscan isn't a problem. (FWIW, this was not one of the reasons I started using XBMC. It's just something I realized after using XBMC for a while.)

On second thought, ISTR that in "Flat Panel" mode, Media Center doesn't use overscan when displaying a test pattern I have in MP4 format, so maybe it leaves video that isn't broadcast TV alone. If this is true, and the only thing affected is broadcast TV, then it is not necessary to disable WMC overscan to make other video look right. For the people playing pool, you want it to look like the inset picture, as apparently, this applies only to broadcast TV. If correct, there goes the only legit reason I saw for choosing "Television" over "Flat Panel" when using a display that is in its 1:1 "Full Pixel" mode.
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