A first look at NZFS and replacing unRAID with NZFS’s Transparent RAID (tRAID) - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 411 Old 07-11-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I think I am going to stay with Flexraid for a while longer... I like it and it works well for how I use it.

That doesn't make sense. I will assume you mean FlexRAID RAID-F. rolleyes.gif

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post #392 of 411 Old 07-11-2013, 06:47 PM
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I know .. the names rolleyes.gif

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post #393 of 411 Old 08-21-2013, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post

It appears that it can be used to erase multiple drives on multiple computers simultaneously from a single PC UI. UnRAID only erases a single disk installed on the same server, but not yet added to the array, at least when running pre-clear from a command line. I haven't done it in a while so I don't recall if unRAID can pre-clear multiple drives from the web GUI. In any case, I'm not sure how this would be a useful feature for HTPC users with a media server.

stock unraid can not ,
you would need to use screen to start multiple session and run preclear script with in each session for each drive you want to preclear.
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post #394 of 411 Old 08-25-2013, 11:10 PM
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Do either the old or new version of FlexRAID support the usage of different sized drives?
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post #395 of 411 Old 08-26-2013, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockDawg View Post

Do either the old or new version of FlexRAID support the usage of different sized drives?

Both do. Only limitation is that your parity drive needs to be at least as big as the largest drive.
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post #396 of 411 Old 08-26-2013, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Acesfullup View Post

BTW, WTF is NZFS?

Am I the only one who sees no or little relation to ZFS proper? This tread contains comments that imply NZFS is somehow related to ZFS proper. Unfortunately, this confusion has neither been corrected nor confirmed by the author.

Best I can tell, the product aims to be some type of multi-parity Raid 4 kernel driver. I welcome any correction, refutation or expansion of this assumption.

From my admittedly limited knowledge of NZFS, it appears to share ABSOLUTELY NO code with the CDDL from Oracle. Nor does it appear to share ZFS' principle architectural goal (filesystem checksums in order to combat bit rot) found in all current and historic ZFS variants (Open Solaris/Oracle/Open Indiana/illumos/FUSE/et al.)

Please answer this question: will NZFS implement ANY of the major features of ZFS as originally proposed by Sun [1]?

Dynamic striping across all devices to maximize throughput
Copy-on-write design makes most disk writes sequential
Multiple block sizes, automatically chosen to match workload
Explicit I/O priority with deadline scheduling
Globally optimal I/O sorting and aggregation
Multiple independent prefetch streams with automatic length and stride detection
Unlimited, instantaneous read/write snapshots
Parallel, constant-time directory operations

[1] http://web.archive.org/web/20071015014209/http://www.sun.com/2004-0914/feature/

Thanks for providing any clarity.
Exactly!
I'm still waiting for anyone to acknowledge let alone answer your question.
This kind of marketing BS annoys the crap out of me, let's copy a well known acronym (ZFS), change one of the words (Zetabyte to Zion) then claim to be surprised when people confuse or make some connection between these two completely unrelated products.
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post #397 of 411 Old 08-26-2013, 09:35 PM
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Oh dear. rolleyes.gif
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post #398 of 411 Old 10-11-2013, 09:04 AM
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back to the original topic, Anyone using this new T raid version of Flexraid ?

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post #399 of 411 Old 10-11-2013, 11:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expat444 View Post

Exactly!
I'm still waiting for anyone to acknowledge let alone answer your question.
This kind of marketing BS annoys the crap out of me, let's copy a well known acronym (ZFS), change one of the words (Zetabyte to Zion) then claim to be surprised when people confuse or make some connection between these two completely unrelated products.

Maybe it has not been answered since the program author has vanished again?
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post #400 of 411 Old 10-12-2013, 11:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Maybe it has not been answered since the program author has vanished again?
More like busy at work. These things don't get built chatting. wink.gif
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post #401 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Ah, memory lane! biggrin.gif

Anyway, just updating as it was a case of put-up or shut-up. A lot has changed since this tongue in cheek flame war. tongue.gif
Transparent RAID now features Storage Accelerators, which were the last planned features. This is on top of all the performance features implemented.

With this Transparent RAID makes a very nice stop-gap till NZFS is out and shakes things a bit. cool.gif
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post #402 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

Ah, memory lane! biggrin.gif

Anyway, just updating as it was a case of put-up or shut-up. A lot has changed since this tongue in cheek flame war. tongue.gif
Transparent RAID now features Storage Accelerators, which were the last planned features. This is on top of all the performance features implemented.

With this Transparent RAID makes a very nice stop-gap till NZFS is out and shakes things a bit. cool.gif

Would you mind discussing the advantages and disadvantages are it relates to a media server of T vs F ???

I think many would benefit from that. F raid is very popular around here (for good reason) but I am not sure the majority of people understand the differences or advantages and disadvantages of them.

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post #403 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectrumbx View Post

Ah, memory lane! biggrin.gif

Anyway, just updating as it was a case of put-up or shut-up. A lot has changed since this tongue in cheek flame war. tongue.gif
Transparent RAID now features Storage Accelerators, which were the last planned features. This is on top of all the performance features implemented.

With this Transparent RAID makes a very nice stop-gap till NZFS is out and shakes things a bit. cool.gif

Yawn.
I think you already posted about how NZFS was going to shake up the media storage world (about 1 year and 3 weeks ago if my math is right), how you were going to stomp out Unraid and
some of the other less fortunate storage options currently in use, blah blah so on and so forth.

Excuse me if I dont get overly excited...
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post #404 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 12:52 PM
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what I would like to understand is WHY do we need tRaid or NZFS when BTRFS is out and getting accepted by mainstream distros?
what this 2 file systems can give us that BTRFS does not even today?

BTRFS :
#1. Native FS built right into kernel and supported by comunity
#2 Native CoW support (i know ZFS does it too)
#3 CheckSum on file Level (not sure if this is considerer to be stable yet but if not it is coming )
#4 Natively Support RAID level 0/1/10( confirmed stable) 5/6 still marked as experimental but getting there.
#5 accepted by RedHeat and openSuse , Ubuntu (as of OpenSuse v13.1 fully integrated and can be used on bootable system volume i.e. you can install whole system on a BTRFS root partition and boot right from it.)
#6 fully replace/remove need for any other RAID (md) and LVM setup. as it natively support multi-volume RAID and LVM configuration with block devices of different type and size
#7 support mounting subvolumes directly

Anything I missed ?

so my question stands
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post #405 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vl1969 View Post

what I would like to understand is WHY do we need tRaid or NZFS when BTRFS is out and getting accepted by mainstream distros?
what this 2 file systems can give us that BTRFS does not even today?

BTRFS :
#1. Native FS built right into kernel and supported by comunity
#2 Native CoW support (i know ZFS does it too)
#3 CheckSum on file Level (not sure if this is considerer to be stable yet but if not it is coming )
#4 Natively Support RAID level 0/1/10( confirmed stable) 5/6 still marked as experimental but getting there.
#5 accepted by RedHeat and openSuse , Ubuntu (as of OpenSuse v13.1 fully integrated and can be used on bootable system volume i.e. you can install whole system on a BTRFS root partition and boot right from it.)
#6 fully replace/remove need for any other RAID (md) and LVM setup. as it natively support multi-volume RAID and LVM configuration with block devices of different type and size
#7 support mounting subvolumes directly

Anything I missed ?

so my question stands

Err, support for Windows users?

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post #406 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 01:17 PM
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I'm not sure you can mix and match drive sizes/add drives with data already on them to BTRFS...plus unlimited parity drives
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post #407 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 02:04 PM
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you definitely can mix/match drive size and type .
BTRFS does Raid in chunks so it can use devices of different size.
you just can not
fill the larger device to the brim until you have enough of small devices to fill the capacity.

as for windows support, well it's not there yet. sorry that is so far is only drawback I can see.

PS>> why do you need unlimited Parity drives? each RAID level have it's own number or parity drives any how.
and as said before BTRFS does RAID in chunks striping data
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post #408 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 02:21 PM
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I'll let spectrumbx answer the rest since I don't know enough...but you missed that you can add drives with data already on them
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post #409 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rc05 View Post

I'll let spectrumbx answer the rest since I don't know enough...but you missed that you can add drives with data already on them

And pull drives out of the RAID and read them like a normal drive in any machine.

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post #410 of 411 Old 03-05-2014, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vl1969 View Post

what I would like to understand is WHY do we need tRaid or NZFS when BTRFS is out and getting accepted by mainstream distros?
what this 2 file systems can give us that BTRFS does not even today?
....

Anything I missed ?

so my question stands
Yes, you've missed a lot. Some details of NZFS have not been revealed yet. tongue.gif
As far as how BTRFS compares to Transparent RAID, see bryansj's answer as a major example of what you are missing out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Yawn.
I think you already posted about how NZFS was going to shake up the media storage world (about 1 year and 3 weeks ago if my math is right), how you were going to stomp out Unraid and
some of the other less fortunate storage options currently in use, blah blah so on and so forth.

Excuse me if I dont get overly excited...
Well, excuse me for taking a breather to create a byproduct that fills a gap till then. rolleyes.gif
If you aren't following the development of Transparent RAID, then I fully understand your position. It lacks the necessary marketing to inform potential users what they are truly getting. The product is very much underground, which is unfortunate as it trumps everything else in its category.
Plus, I think that many are awaiting the Linux version before converting. For users already on a Linux solution, converting to Windows requires migration rather than a simple switch as promised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Would you mind discussing the advantages and disadvantages are it relates to a media server of T vs F ???

I think many would benefit from that. F raid is very popular around here (for good reason) but I am not sure the majority of people understand the differences or advantages and disadvantages of them.
Comparisons were made here: http://www.flexraid.com/2013/10/04/table-comparison-of-transparent-raid-vs-raid-over-file-system/ and http://www.flexraid.com/faq-items/transparent-raid-vs-raid-over-file-system/.

However, we can summarize things a bit here.

1. Transparent RAID (tRAID) is not a replacement for RAID over File System (RAID-F). As it stands, RAID-F is being redesigned. So, expect more awesomeness out of it in the near future. wink.gif

2. RAID-F is far more flexible and hence its greater popularity. Today, the number of users choosing RAID-F is greater than the number of users choosing tRAID even though tRAID is newer and much more polished. On the same token, tRAID is just not well known or understood, and that might have something to do with it.

3. Transparent RAID has one major thing over RAID-F: it is real-time. Though, this can be viewed as a strike depending on how you view things.
For a lot of users, Snapshot RAID works perfect and fits well with the way they use and interact with their data. For other users, however, their usage simply requires a real-time parity solution.
Transparent RAID was created to provide that real-time parity aspect while providing as much of the benefits found in RAID-F as possible.

4. To re-enforce the previous point, if Real-Time RAID over File System (RT RAID) had lived to its promises, Transparent would not have been created. As it stands, RT RAID is still experimental and only works in limited deployment scenarios.

5. Now, the one thing tRAID has over RAID-F is rather big if you require it. Transparent RAID provides Online Disk Expansion, Contraction, and Recovery. The data on the failed disk is reconstructed live - and so, there is less downtime compared to RAID-F. If your data changes continuously, you really don't have an option as Snapshot RAID won't do.

6. Being new, Transparent RAID just much more polished and much more feature rich, but this will change with the already started RAID-F redesign.

So, all in all, it is purely about whether one needs real-time protection or not.
I personally recommend Transparent RAID as it has most the key RAID-F features while providing real-time protection and features. It is also much easier to use and maintain once configured. Still, this recommendation comes from a personal preference and prospective users should evaluate both products to decide which one to choose.
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post #411 of 411 Old 03-09-2014, 11:02 AM
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Thanks for the Intelligent reply biggrin.gif

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