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post #91 of 118 Old 03-19-2013, 09:50 AM
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That's right. Let's all buy good old American Made CFL bulbs. What? There aren't any American Made CFLs? Is that because of the highly toxic pollution generated in their manufacture? Or maybe because of the labor intensity of twisting those cute double helices by hand? Chinese Sweat Shops to the rescue.
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post #92 of 118 Old 03-19-2013, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

That's right. Let's all buy good old American Made CFL bulbs. What? There aren't any American Made CFLs? Is that because of the highly toxic pollution generated in their manufacture? Or maybe because of the labor intensity of twisting those cute double helices by hand? Chinese Sweat Shops to the rescue.

You can buy american made incandescent, LED or halogen?
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post #93 of 118 Old 03-19-2013, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

That's right. Let's all buy good old American Made CFL bulbs. What? There aren't any American Made CFLs? Is that because of the highly toxic pollution generated in their manufacture? Or maybe because of the labor intensity of twisting those cute double helices by hand? Chinese Sweat Shops to the rescue.

You can buy american made incandescent, LED or halogen?
One such source: http://www.aerolights.com/index.html
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post #94 of 118 Old 03-19-2013, 11:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

I don't understand why people would actually buy incandescant.
Excess heat
Excess energy consumption
Short life span
High current requirements for the fixtures and wiring.
Seems like a very bad all around product.
Because the light from incandescent/halogen actually looks good? The light from CFL/LED is still really ugly.
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post #95 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 03:18 AM
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They do put fluoride in the water supply.. There is no doubt about that..

It is the problem with the where they get the fluoride from that is being questioned. The good fluoride found in toothpaste or, the garbage they put in the water is a carcinogenic/radioactive waste product that is causing several problems with children and adults today.

I really can't understand why anyone would say the light that CFLs produce actually looks good. Color blindness comes to mind, lol.
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post #96 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 04:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Because the light from incandescent/halogen actually looks good? The light from CFL/LED is still really ugly.

There are full spectrum bulbs if you are worried about how a cfl will affect the hues of your wall.
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post #97 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Because the light from incandescent/halogen actually looks good? The light from CFL/LED is still really ugly.

CREE LED's from Home Depot produce better light than any hot tungsten filament ever produced.

I never considered the glow of hot molten metal a good source of light. It has lots of reds and yellows in it.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #98 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post

They do put fluoride in the water supply.. There is no doubt about that..

It is the problem with the where they get the fluoride from that is being questioned. The good fluoride found in toothpaste or, the garbage they put in the water is a carcinogenic/radioactive waste product that is causing several problems with children and adults today.

I really can't understand why anyone would say the light that CFLs produce actually looks good. Color blindness comes to mind, lol.

Some of us are more concerned with the pollution that is created by generating more elecricity to keep those tungsten filaments hot, than with how the color of the walls looks for 3 hours that we use the lights.

If these are outdoor lights, bugs can't "see" LED light. But, even the specific "bug" incandescant or CFL lights attract bugs that rely on heat to locate light source. Besides, who cares what hue my outside walls are in the middle of the night? I don't.

Somebody just can't let go of the "old shoe"

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #99 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 10:42 AM
 
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Actually, heat plays little role in the bugs finding the light - and they find LEDs just fine:
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Back in 2009, we got excited when we heard that LED lights didn’t attract bugs. We do love LEDs for a variety of reasons already -- long, long life; low, low energy consumption; and good, high quality light. (Also, the cool factor.) The thought that they might also keep the bugs away seemed too good to be true until we saw some credible sources explaining that LED lights emit very little light in the UV spectrum, and that it’s UV light that attracts bugs.

Lo and behold, the thesis has not passed the test of time. It is true that most LED lights do not produce a significant amount of UV light. But, while the spectrum of light produced by LEDs can vary from light to light, it turns out that most do produce a significant amount of blue light.

Blue light, it turns out, also attracts bugs. I emailed Andrei Alyokhin, an entomology professor at the University of Maine, asking if he could “shed some light” on the matter. He responded:

“Insects are mostly attracted to UV light and blue light. They cannot really see red light. Warmth plays a minor, if any, role. So, insect attraction will depend on the wavelength of the LED light used by the homeowners.”
http://www.energycircle.com/blog/2011/08/17/correction-led-lights-do-attract-bugs
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post #100 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 01:31 PM
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Take a look at this other forum’s thread, especially message #13.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?345152-Ultimate-Light-Bulb-Test-Incandescent-v-Compact-Fluorescent-v-LED-Pop-Mechanics

That is what I usually see in articles about lamp spectra. There is no way a CFL gives off comparable color compared to other sources. If you Google you will find more of the same.

On a similar note, Home Depot, at least by me, has a display showing 3 different lamp color temperatures. You place your hands under a light to see how they look in warm, cool, or daylight lighting. The bulbs are not all the same type, IOW they use incandescent, CFL & LED. But it does give you an idea how color temperature affects what you see.

What I’ve read & tried, is using a daylight temperature bulb if you’re trying to figure out if those dark socks you have are black or dark blue. A warm color bulb does not have enough blue in it, so you need a daylight bulb or take your socks over to the window to get some natural daylight, presuming it’s daytime of course. A daylight bulb would be good in a walk-in closet but a warm lamp would usually be better in a living room.
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post #101 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike99 View Post

Take a look at this other forum’s thread, especially message #13.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?345152-Ultimate-Light-Bulb-Test-Incandescent-v-Compact-Fluorescent-v-LED-Pop-Mechanics

That is what I usually see in articles about lamp spectra. There is no way a CFL gives off comparable color compared to other sources. If you Google you will find more of the same.

Post 13 came to the conclusion that CFL's look good and work great for photography. It also said that RGB LED's suck.

Our interpretation of the machines say that CFL's put too much light out at RGB but that to people they look great.
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post #102 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 08:00 PM
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That, my friend, is a matter of opinion ..

"Look great" is a matter of subjectivity. "Look great" to whom?

In my humble opinion, they are horrible. The light they give off is so incredibly offensive. They strobe several times per second and cause headaches, nervous system issues and eventually people just snap and shoot up a whole building full of people.
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post #103 of 118 Old 03-20-2013, 08:28 PM
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That, my friend, is a matter of opinion ..
Actually it's a matter of science. There is a property of illumination known as 'Color Rendering Index' and most garden variety fluorescent bulbs rate pretty low. Here's a chart from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index


Edit: Also of note from that same article:
Quote:
Problems have been encountered attempting to use otherwise high CRI LED lighting on film and video sets. The color spectra of LED lighting primary colors does not match the expected color wavelength bandpasses of film emulsions and digital sensors. As a result, color rendition can be completely unpredictable in optical prints, transfers to digital media from film (DI's), and video camera recordings. This phenomenon with respect to motion picture film has been documented in an LED lighting evaluation series of tests produced by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences scientific staff.
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post #104 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post

That, my friend, is a matter of opinion ..

"Look great" is a matter of subjectivity. "Look great" to whom?

In my humble opinion, they are horrible. The light they give off is so incredibly offensive. They strobe several times per second and cause headaches, nervous system issues and eventually people just snap and shoot up a whole building full of people.

If you see the bulbs strobe then they are defective. Maybe you bought a really bad batch of bulbs and that is why you are saying such crazy things.
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post #105 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 07:02 AM
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No, it's not something you can see, it happens to many times per second, like interlaced TV.

It isn't a matter of science, I can say they look like hell and you can day they look great. What you were pointing out isn't a study of how great they look, it was a study of the degrees Kelvin the various lights are.

That doesn't speak for how natural the light looks to me or you.

Opinion.
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post #106 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Because the light from incandescent/halogen actually looks good? The light from CFL/LED is still really ugly.

I disagree. The LED bulbs I have all look great.
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post #107 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 07:22 AM
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They strobe something like 20k times a second. Once again if you can see this then your bulbs are defective. I have trouble believing that this gives people headaches. 60hz fluorescent tubes give me headaches so I believe that(newer ballasts are 20khz or so).

I like daylight bulbs, as far as seeing the difference in the light of CFL vs incandescent, they look the same to me. The idea that CFL's will make you go crazy and shoot people is just another ridiculous statement from you. Any proof?

I heard CFL's in a bunker killed Saddam Hussein.
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post #108 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 10:14 AM
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I've never seen so much cfl hate, very impressive
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post #109 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 11:26 AM
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- Reporting suggests that fluorescence lighting in contrast to incandescent light aggravate the symptoms of dyslexia. Probably the main problems are caused by UV radiation and blue light, emitted by cool white tubes (Irlen method 2008).


Neurological:
Headaches, dizziness, nausea, difficulty concentrating, memory loss,
irritability, depression, anxiety, insomnia, fatigue, weakness, tremors, muscle spasms,
numbness, tingling, altered reflexes, muscle and joint paint, leg/foot pain, flu-like
symptoms, fever. More severe reactions can include seizures, paralysis, psychosis and
stroke

"My son was extremely agitated when I used them in his bedroom lamp, because it too runs hot so, I used CFL's in there. Until I figured it out, he couldn't sleep, he was moody, agitated and aggressive. Once I did some research and figured out what it might be, I quickly replaced his light bulbs with regular ones and instantly, he was back to 'normal'. That was the end of CFL's in our house. So I continued to do more research on CFL's and discovered some things that disturbed me."

Personal experience of this woman, myself, and everyone with problems adjusting to the light including PSYCHOSIS which could cause a person to shoot up a building http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/11/harrisburg_man_who_murdered_hi.html could very well just be reason to leave the things on the shelf at the store and buy something more healthy.

The government has done all this research and still chooses to subsidize them (EPA Report posted earlier [for example]). Something tells me they like America medicated..
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post #110 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

I disagree. The LED bulbs I have all look great.
Buy some halogens with the same rating as the LEDs (e.g. 50W equivalent 2700K) and do a comparison. The LEDs are nowhere close when it comes to light quality and color rendition. (though they will probably be slightly "whiter" because they tend to have more blue light in them and put out a higher color temperature than rated)
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post #111 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 11:36 AM
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Did you post a meaningful link that I missed?

UV radiation and blue light both come from the sun, btw.
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post #112 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 12:08 PM
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I am not going to do your research. I'm just giving you facts and snippets.

Honestly, there are about 1000 sites I could give you a link to that say that CFL's are dangerous.


You know how many that say that they are totally safe? ZERO.
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post #113 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 12:35 PM
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I am not going to do your research. I'm just giving you facts and snippets.

Honestly, there are about 1000 sites I could give you a link to that say that CFL's are dangerous.


You know how many that say that they are totally safe? ZERO.

Do you know how many cases of psychosis have been linked to CFL's? ZERO.

How many cases of anything beyond cuts from glass have been linked to CFL's? ZERO. Prove me wrong.

What kind of light bulb is totally safe? NONE. LED's maybe.
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post #114 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Buy some halogens with the same rating as the LEDs (e.g. 50W equivalent 2700K) and do a comparison. The LEDs are nowhere close when it comes to light quality and color rendition. (though they will probably be slightly "whiter" because they tend to have more blue light in them and put out a higher color temperature than rated)

I've replaced 1/2 the halogens in my kitchen and master bathroom with LEDs. I have tried three different brands of LEDs, and finally settled on the one with the best color. It's indistinguishable from the halogen, and they are less than $9 each. These are GU10 bulbs, which are more of a challenge to design in an LED than a bulb shape. So, on the same ceiling in the same room, there are LEDs and halogens side-by-side. It should be obvious if there were any differences.

I've compared my bulb halogens (all Pharox brand) with incandescent and there's virtually zero difference. Even friends that can't stand CFLs have agreed they would use these in their house. I can't speak for other brand of bulb style LEDs, because I haven't tried them. Unfortunately Pharox is no longer selling in the USA, too bad. When they would put the bulbs on sale for $25 for 5 and free shipping, I would order a bunch. I am down to zero incandescent bulbs, 1/2 CFLs and 1/2 LEDs. I much prefer the LEDs.
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post #115 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

I've replaced 1/2 the halogens in my kitchen and master bathroom with LEDs. I have tried three different brands of LEDs, and finally settled on the one with the best color. It's indistinguishable from the halogen, and they are less than $9 each. These are GU10 bulbs, which are more of a challenge to design in an LED than a bulb shape. So, on the same ceiling in the same room, there are LEDs and halogens side-by-side. It should be obvious if there were any differences.
The color of light from them is not an issue - the better LEDs are indeed a good match to halogens if you are shining them on a white surface. The problem with LEDs is how the color of anything else looks when illuminated by them.
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post #116 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 02:14 PM
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Anybody have a good source for reasonably priced dimable (via existing dimmer switch) LED puck or similar under cabinet lighting?

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post #117 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

The color of light from them is not an issue - the better LEDs are indeed a good match to halogens if you are shining them on a white surface. The problem with LEDs is how the color of anything else looks when illuminated by them.

To each their own I guess. I have no problem with them, and my kitchen is cooler with only 1/2 of those halogens gone.
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post #118 of 118 Old 03-21-2013, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronoptimist View Post

Buy some halogens with the same rating as the LEDs (e.g. 50W equivalent 2700K) and do a comparison. The LEDs are nowhere close when it comes to light quality and color rendition. (though they will probably be slightly "whiter" because they tend to have more blue light in them and put out a higher color temperature than rated)

I bought a couple of the Philips AmbientLED, 60W equivalent, 805 lumens, 2690K temperature bulbs. I had an LED & an incandescent in matching table lamps about 5 feet apart. Not that I could tell the difference between 2690K and 2700K warm light, but the LED is a tiny bit warmer looking than the 60W incandescent. Most LEDs that I've seen are 3000K so perhaps this particular Philips model is one of the exceptions.
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