*WOW* ... SVP +1080p Animation = OMG ! (60 frames per second for the win!) - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Home Theater Computers > *WOW* ... SVP +1080p Animation = OMG ! (60 frames per second for the win!)
egandt's Avatar egandt 07:06 PM 07-10-2013
I switched to trying SVP with Media Player Classic HC, but with MadVR and refresh changing set which I need for ZP, the screen refresh rate is always reset to that of the source so SVP serves no purpose (always 1 to1). Does nota mean I have to also loss all the benefits of MadVR refresh rate switching (or all of MadVR) in order to use SVP, since that does not seem like a far trade off. Nor does disabling refresh rate matching for most video through Zoom Player in ordder to watch a few through MPC and SVP. I'd thought that since MadVR is last in the chain the refresh rate it received would be that from after SVP (AKA the new rate not the orgininal rate), but seems I was wrong. Do I need to set some option in SVP to ensure its changes to refresh rates are seen properly by MadVR. I tried creating a new 1080P60 "Vieo Profile", thinking that might do it but I can not seem to enable it.

Thanks,
ERIC

renethx's Avatar renethx 07:37 PM 07-10-2013
SVP increases the frame rate by frame interpolation to match the desktop refresh rate. If you have "1080p23" in madVR display mode, then madVR forces the desktop refresh rate to 23Hz and SVP just passes through the video stream ("1:1").

A workaround, other than removing "1080p23" from madVR display modes, is add the tag "refreshrate=59" (without quotes) in the name of the file to which you want to apply SVP, that will override "1080p23" in the display modes.
renethx's Avatar renethx 10:11 PM 07-10-2013
The effect of Hyper-Threading is a little bit larger than I expected, 25%-30% increase, in SVP.

IVB 2C/2T 3.3GHz vs IVB 2C/4T 3.3GHz, with HD 7770:



IVB 2C/2T supports SVP Level 3g (barely, CPU load is 75-83%), while 2C/4T supports Level 4g (CPU load 57%) (with GPU assistance).

Haswell 2C/2T 3.3GHz vs Haswell 2C/4T 3.3GHz, with HD 7770:


Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 06:23 PM 07-11-2013
30% is serious IMO
cheezit73's Avatar cheezit73 10:18 PM 07-11-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post


In madVR v0.85.4, all of these old tags such as 59p were removed and a bunch of new tags such as refreshRate=23 were added. I guess you are still using an older version of madVR? For a list of new tags, look at changelog.txt in the madVR folder.

What video decoder is loaded then?

SVP will be loaded if ffdshow raw video filter is loaded. If the desktop refresh rate is 23Hz however, it will do nothing.

FYI I reinstalled everything MPCHC, LAV, MADVR, SVP packages and it all works like it should now! and since most my collection is blurays I use MADVR auto refresh changeing and I have gone through and any movies I know I will want SVP to work with ie. Cars, Wreck it Raplh et al I have added the refresh=59 token to the file name. Works Seamless!


renethx's Avatar renethx 08:27 AM 07-13-2013
Haswell 2C/2T 3.3GHz vs Haswell 2C/4T 3.3GHz, with HD 7770:


wildchild22's Avatar wildchild22 08:34 AM 07-13-2013
What haswell is the minimum for 60hz on the highest setting?

Hey renethx do you have a guide available for a recommended system for svp?
If not you should make one I would happily pay!
Puwaha's Avatar Puwaha 12:32 PM 07-14-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildchild22 View Post

What haswell is the minimum for 60hz on the highest setting?

If you look at the charts, then an i7-4770K and a Radeon 6900 series (don't know which one) is barely adequate for 60fps on the absolute highest settings... and even then you might have to overclock.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?authkey=CPLQ7-AI&authkey=CPLQ7-AI&hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0Apb-Nf9ejjCKdElHMk45aW9OSlR3Znh2WGZtZnBjWkE&type=view&gid=0&f=true&sortcolid=-1&sortasc=true&rowsperpage=250

The Sandy Bridge E series is required (like a 3930K) for absolute maximum settings with enough headroom for other processes like MadVR (also using beefy GPUs like Nvidia 550 or 660)

Most of SVP's calculations are CPU bound (though the GPU can help tremendously) so the beefiest CPU you can get is key here.

Now, you can always dial back some of the settings if you are not wanting to go that powerful with CPU/GPU. Check the charts to see what other people are getting with their combinations of CPU/GPU in the "real world" numbers.
Mfusick's Avatar Mfusick 05:30 PM 07-15-2013
4770k is a smart bet given current costs of CPU and performance levels.
renethx's Avatar renethx 09:16 PM 07-15-2013
These two tables may be helpful to choose CPU / GPU.

First CPU load at SVP Level 1g-5g FHD 24fps -> 60fps conversion, with GPU acceleration off and on. GPU used is Radeon HD 7770, with madVR Level 5 in a FHD screen.



- Core i3 is good up to Level 4g. 4130 is the lowest model among the standard three Haswell Core i3's (the other two are 3.5GHz and 3.6GHz).
- Core i5 is enough for Level 5g.
- If you want to customize SVP, Core i7 or the upcoming IVB-E is recommended. (Customization does not necessarily improve the quality, of course. smile.gif)
- AMD Trinity / Richland A8 / A10 are good for SVP Level 3g. These APUs are good for budget minded users without adding a discrete graphics card.

The second table shows CPU load of Core i3 at SVP Level 3g FHD 24fps -> 60fps conversion with various GPUs. Each GPU is used with madVR Level 3 in a FHD screen.



- CPU offload by AMD GPU is consistent throughout the models (75% --> 35%)
- CPU offload by NVIDIA GPU depends on each model. A better GPU offloads CPU more.
- AMD offloads CPU better than NVIDIA.

Finally if you want to enjoy SVP as cheap as possible, AMD A8-5600K / A8-6600K with DDR3-1866 memory is recommended, that supports SVP Level 3g + madVR Level 3. Intel Core i3 4130 (or higher) is also good if you use DDR3-2400 memory (= bandwidth 2400Mbps x 128bit = 38.4GB/s).
trooper11's Avatar trooper11 10:07 AM 07-16-2013
Thanks for the charts renethx, it makes things a lot easier for those of us just getting into this stuff.

So let me see if I have this straight:

If my aim is FHD resolution, then the minimum in order to have smooth playback with MadVR @ 5 and SVP @ 5g is:

Intel i5-4670
AMD HD 7770


Is that right? If so, what is the recommended ram for that combo?


Now, I am planning to get a 4K set in the near future, so what would the minimums be to support UHD res? From my reading of the threads here on the subject, I thought it would be:

Intel i7 4770
AMD HD 7970 Ghz

It would be great if I could get away with less though.


Then I just needed to decide if its worth the extra cost to aim so high or if MadVR @ 3 and SVP @ 3g is good enough for me. Considering I'm going for 4k, I may not have a choice lol.
renethx's Avatar renethx 10:23 AM 07-16-2013
Yes,

Intel i5-4670
AMD HD 7770 or 7790

is good for SVP Level 5g + madVR Level 5 in a FHD screen. Just get DDR3-2400 4GB x 2 such as G.SKILL F3-2400C11D-8GXM or F3-2400C10D-8GZH (DDR3-1600 is enough but there is no big price difference).

To play SD/HD/FHD contents in a 4K UHD screen, i5 is still good (because CPU's role is interpolate SD/HD/FHD frames, the same as in a FHD screen), but upscaling SD/HD/FHD 60fps to 4K UHD with madVR Level 5 requires HD 7970 (madVR Level 3 with 7770 / 7790).

Right now SVP on 4K UHD 24fps contents is out of question (roughly CPU needs to be 4 times better, and memory need to be > 4GB, that means a 64-bit version of SVP).
trooper11's Avatar trooper11 01:51 PM 07-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Yes,

Intel i5-4670
AMD HD 7770 or 7790

is good for SVP Level 5g + madVR Level 5 in a FHD screen. Just get DDR3-2400 4GB x 2 such as G.SKILL F3-2400C11D-8GXM or F3-2400C10D-8GZH (DDR3-1600 is enough but there is no big price difference).

To play SD/HD/FHD contents in a 4K UHD screen, i5 is still good (because CPU's role is interpolate SD/HD/FHD frames, the same as in a FHD screen), but upscaling SD/HD/FHD 60fps to 4K UHD with madVR Level 5 requires HD 7970 (madVR Level 3 with 7770 / 7790).

Right now SVP on 4K UHD 24fps contents is out of question (roughly CPU needs to be 4 times better, and memory need to be > 4GB, that means a 64-bit version of SVP).


Ah ok, thanks for helping clear that up. So right now, I should not even think about trying to take 4K native content @ 24fps and use SVP to hit 60fps. That's fine since there won't be much 4k content for quite some time. Right now, my main concern is bring the best out of SD/HD/FHD content that is displayed on the 4K set. I suppose that once there is enough content to care about using SVP with it, there will be a 64bit version and hardware that can run it in a reasonable price range.

So if I want to hit MadVR @ 5 and SVP @ 5g for SD/HD/FHD on an UHD set, I will need:

Intel i5-4670
AMD HD7970
DDR3-2400 4GB x 2

Would the 7970 GHz edition be required or the regular 7970?
biggerpapi's Avatar biggerpapi 02:13 PM 07-16-2013
So I have an i7 -3635QM @ 2.40 GHZ and a Nvidia 640m graphics card in my laptop. I can run both 720 and 1080 video without high cpu/gpu usage and the program works very well yet it overheats my laptop like crazy. The laptop is only a couple months old and is well ventilated, so could it just be that this program is not really meant for laptop use?
renethx's Avatar renethx 07:54 PM 07-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by trooper11 View Post

Would the 7970 GHz edition be required or the regular 7970?

The standard edition is enough. You can also turn the standard edition to GHz edition easily by overclocking GPU and memory (with MSI Afterburner, Sapphire TriXX etc.).

The total power consumption of such a system at SVP madVR FHD 24fps -> 4K UHD 60fps is ~250W. You would need a good case (SG07 / SG08, GD07 / GD08 etc.)
renethx's Avatar renethx 08:03 PM 07-16-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggerpapi View Post

So I have an i7 -3635QM @ 2.40 GHZ and a Nvidia 640m graphics card in my laptop. I can run both 720 and 1080 video without high cpu/gpu usage and the program works very well yet it overheats my laptop like crazy. The laptop is only a couple months old and is well ventilated, so could it just be that this program is not really meant for laptop use?

Your system can do SVP Level 5g + madVR Level 3 in a FHD screen. (i7 4C/8T @2.4GHz is good enough for SVP Level 5g and GT 640M 384C @625MHz 480GFLOPS is enough for MadVR Level 3.)
biggerpapi's Avatar biggerpapi 08:14 PM 07-16-2013
Yea like I said the program runs smoothly(while using madvr), it just overheats my laptop. I let Core Temp run while watching a 1080p movie and I checked the temps 10 minutes in and one core had reached 90C while the rest averaged mid-high 80s.Temps are maybe 1-2 degrees cooler watching a 720p movie.
Ben Agg's Avatar Ben Agg 11:12 PM 07-16-2013
Reneth how do you feelthe AT-6800k would do if it was crossfired with a 7750 and 8/16gb of 2133mhz ram? would it be enough for level 5 madvr and 5g on SVP or it just doesnt cut it still ?
renethx's Avatar renethx 11:18 PM 07-16-2013
Neither SVP nor madVR supports CrossFire. Basically SVP is bound by CPU, GPU plays only an auxiliary role. A10-6800K is not enough for SVP Level 5g.
Ben Agg's Avatar Ben Agg 11:29 PM 07-16-2013
Hmm, what do you think is the most cost effective way of getting level 5 on both?
Quote:
Intel i5-4670
AMD HD 7770 or 7790

is good for SVP Level 5g + madVR Level 5 in a FHD screen. Just get DDR3-2400 4GB x 2 such as G.SKILL F3-2400C11D-8GXM or F3-2400C10D-8GZH (DDR3-1600 is enough but there is no big price difference).

Looks like i better get the wallet out sigh :P
renethx's Avatar renethx 11:39 PM 07-16-2013
Core i5 (non-S/T) + HD 7770 (or GTX 650 Ti) is minimum.
Ben Agg's Avatar Ben Agg 11:42 PM 07-16-2013
what is s/t ? would u say 4600k is the absolute baseline? just how much of a difference is level 3,4,5 visually in FHD on a 40" screen?
renethx's Avatar renethx 12:24 AM 07-17-2013
S/T are energy saving versions (lower clock). You don't have to use the K version. There are others: i5-4430 (3.0GHz), 4570 (3.2GHz), 4670 (3.4GHz). 4670K (3.4GHz) is $20 more because of overclockability (it lacks some features that the non-K support, however; comparison).

Smoother and less artifacts. SVP is not for every one. Some people like it, some hate it. You'd better try it yourself before spending lots of money for this purpose.
Cetrian's Avatar Cetrian 12:54 AM 07-17-2013
Guys I haven't read all of this thread, but I saw the first page, thought "cool I'll try this" ....... now it's 3am, and I am watching Top Gear episodes on super-max settings on my 4770K & GTX 770. eek.gifcool.gif

Wow. This is the single coolest thing I have put on my HTPC in years. Definitely top 3 cool reasons to build an HTPC.

Kick. Ass. I will be donating to this project!
trooper11's Avatar trooper11 02:25 AM 07-17-2013
This is a little off topic, but I'm trying to wrap my head around these requirements.

Can someone tell me what the minimum hardware is required just to playback 4K content? I mean before adding MadVR or SVP.

From what I have read, I can't even get 4k output over hdmi unless I:

1. Go with a Haswell cpu
2. Pair a decent cpu with a video card like the HD 7770


Is that about right? Are there any appropriate AMD cpus that can output and playback in 4k?

The reason I'm asking is that considering the large cost of this hardware, I may opt to start out the build with just a cpu capable of playing back all of my content up to 4k and then add the video card later for MadVR/SVP.
renethx's Avatar renethx 07:38 AM 07-17-2013
Just buy Core i7-4770(K), that can do SVP Level 5g + DXVA2 upscaling (equivalent to madVR Level 3 in quality) to 4K UHD under EVR. You can't use madVR, however. madVR in a 4K UHD display requires a better GPU (HD 7770 for Level 3, HD 7970 for Level 5).
renethx's Avatar renethx 08:25 AM 07-17-2013
Finally iGPU version.

- AMD A8/A10 Trinity/Richland support SVP Level 3g + madVR Level 3 nicely. A10-6800K supports SVP Level 4g + madVR Level 3.
- If you are going to use Intel iGPU, make sure to use DDR3-2400, that makes a huge difference.
# Pentium supports SVP Level 2g + madVR DXVA2
# Core i3 supports SVP Level 3g + madVR DXVA2
# Core i5 supports SVP Level 4g + madVR DXVA2
# Core i7 supports SVP Level 5g + madVR DXVA2

All in a FHD screen (of course).


Ben Agg's Avatar Ben Agg 10:11 AM 07-17-2013
Hmm although its pricey prob worth buying i7-4770k + 7970 and using it as media / beast gaming machine for a year or 2 till some real good proven 4k displays / projectors start coming through. Wonder if that build would hold up as future proof for 4k though (new madvr versions/svp and new products coming along) hmmm makes me wonder if I am better off waiting for ddr4 / gddr5 combo
trooper11's Avatar trooper11 12:46 PM 07-17-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Just buy Core i7-4770(K), that can do SVP Level 5g + DXVA2 upscaling (equivalent to madVR Level 3 in quality) to 4K UHD under EVR. You can't use madVR, however. madVR in a 4K UHD display requires a better GPU (HD 7770 for Level 3, HD 7970 for Level 5).


Alright that could be another option for sure.


I decided to edit my comment after doing more research. So it appears I must stick with Haswell if I intend to use the onboard gpu for 4k output since it can play 4k content smoothly. If I want to use MadVr and SVP, then I need the i5 and 7970 combo already discussed.

Here is my next question:

Since its not possible to build a pc capable of supporting 4K @ 60fps (due to performance limitations and the fact that it would require HDMI 2.0 to send that to a 4K tv), what should I target for output on the pc?

Of the handful of 4K TVs out there, I'm leaning towards the Sony 65" XBR (even though I don't like the speaker placement). That model supposedly has a good up scaling chip. So lets say I chose that TV, should I use my htpc to upscale to 1080p @ 60 or 4K @ 24/30?

Any native 4k content I eventually get would just play at a native res on the tv, but is it better to let the tv upscale all other content to 4k from 1080p60 (that would mean the htpc is only targeting FHD, not UHD) or not use the TV's up scaling at all by outputting all other content at 4k 24/30?
renethx's Avatar renethx 10:19 PM 07-17-2013
Haswell iGPU and discrete Radeon HD 7xxx supports 4K 60p output via DP. Haswell / IVB iGPU can decode H.264 4K 60fps perfectly. It's up to each 4K display how it supports (or does not support) 4K 60p. TV does not support DP as expected. TV may support 4K 60p via AMD EyeFinity, NVIDIA Quadro Mosaic, Intel Collage (4 HDMI cables from a single GPU). Some monitors support DP. For example

- Sony 84X9000 (84"), X9200A (65", 55"): HDMI x 4. These models do not support 4K 60p.
- Sharp UD1 (70", 60"): HDMI x 4. The same as above.
- Toshiba L9300U (84", 65", 58"): HDMI x 4; with the adapter box THD-MBA1, 4K 60p is possible.
- Sharp PN-K321 (32"): DisplayPort 1.2 (supporting 4K 60p), HDMI x 2

Perhaps you'd better wait for HDMI 2.0 capable graphics card / 4K TV.

Some hints on 4K X-Reality PRO (Digital Riality Creation) vs MadVR Jinc+AR. Jinc algorithm will remain (one of) the best even in 4K realm.
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