*WOW* ... SVP +1080p Animation = OMG ! (60 frames per second for the win!) - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 685 Old 12-14-2013, 11:53 AM
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I've seen this thread for awhile, but haven't read through it. I have a workstation PC I built that has the i7 3930K slightly overclocked and the GEForce 660Ti for my GPU. I'm wondering how well SVP would work on this system? I also have an i5 system that is my main HTPC system that I may try SVP on as well.

I'm doing a quick test on my laptop but when I look at the SVP icon in the taskbar, it says 'Waiting for ffdshow video'. I use MPC as the player, is there a setting I am missing? The SVP software auto-detected at 2G on this laptop I am using so wanted to test how it works before I implement it on my HTPC and workstation PC.
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post #542 of 685 Old 12-14-2013, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

I've seen this thread for awhile, but haven't read through it. I have a workstation PC I built that has the i7 3930K slightly overclocked and the GEForce 660Ti for my GPU. I'm wondering how well SVP would work on this system? I also have an i5 system that is my main HTPC system that I may try SVP on as well.

I'm doing a quick test on my laptop but when I look at the SVP icon in the taskbar, it says 'Waiting for ffdshow video'. I use MPC as the player, is there a setting I am missing? The SVP software auto-detected at 2G on this laptop I am using so wanted to test how it works before I implement it on my HTPC and workstation PC.

Yeah you system should do it really well. 660ti is enough for all MadVR levels and SVP 5G (G) [for GPU assisted]

That CPU is more than enough I would think. You won't need overclocking.

You can run the SVP bench test and compare your results to some of ours (posted earlier) to know specifically how your PC will do - but on paper your PC should handle it easily.

On your laptop- yeah it will probably give your laptop a workout (and kill your battery fast) biggrin.gif

Sound like you need the media splitter installed. Install the full SVP package (it will re-install MPC-HC to an alternate location in SVP folder and use that one, so it should not mess up your other)

Play a movie with MPC-HC and make sure SVP is running on the bottom right. You should be able to tell it's working. Try a disney cartoon or something. I can tell SVP is working even on the opening credits or movie studio intro usually.

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post #543 of 685 Old 12-14-2013, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Yeah you system should do it really well. 660ti is enough for all MadVR levels and SVP 5G (G) [for GPU assisted]

That CPU is more than enough I would think. You won't need overclocking.

You can run the SVP bench test and compare your results to some of ours (posted earlier) to know specifically how your PC will do - but on paper your PC should handle it easily.

On your laptop- yeah it will probably give your laptop a workout (and kill your battery fast) biggrin.gif

Sound like you need the media splitter installed. Install the full SVP package (it will re-install MPC-HC to an alternate location in SVP folder and use that one, so it should not mess up your other)

Play a movie with MPC-HC and make sure SVP is running on the bottom right. You should be able to tell it's working. Try a disney cartoon or something. I can tell SVP is working even on the opening credits or movie studio intro usually.

I'm testing this on my 3930K workstation with 'FF VII: Advent Children Complete' and HOLY CHRISTMAS what a difference!! Can't get anymore real than that! SVP may do a good service for my 55" plasma. On my workstation I have the GPU acceleration turned off, and the CPU basically is eating up SVP for dinner, since alone it stays around 30-40% CPU usage. With GPU-Accel on it stays under 20%.

Going to play with the MadVR settings and see what I can do there, then try to install SVP on my i5 HTPC system.
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post #544 of 685 Old 12-14-2013, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AVTechMan View Post

I'm testing this on my 3930K workstation with 'FF VII: Advent Children Complete' and HOLY CHRISTMAS what a difference!! Can't get anymore real than that! SVP may do a good service for my 55" plasma. On my workstation I have the GPU acceleration turned off, and the CPU basically is eating up SVP for dinner, since alone it stays around 30-40% CPU usage. With GPU-Accel on it stays under 20%.

Going to play with the MadVR settings and see what I can do there, then try to install SVP on my i5 HTPC system.

It's your CPU. That thing was born a beast. Not everyone is rocking socket 2011 eek.gif Your CPU has a passmark CPU score north of 12,000 I think. In comparison a typical user around here is using an i3 dual core CPU with a score of about 3000 or so. Your beastly CPU is roughly as powerful as three different users HTPC's put together.

I think the i5 should run it well (which i5 ??) but it's not going to be so easy. SVP gives an i5 a decent workout, but you can do it with something like a 3570k or a 4670k. That's minimum though. No dual cores allowed. tongue.gif

how did your laptop do ? Even on the lighter settings (like 2c) you get a nice effect on the laptop.

Glad you like it. It is pretty cool. It's basically the same thing those really fancy TV's are doing.

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post #545 of 685 Old 12-14-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

It's your CPU. That thing was born a beast. Not everyone is rocking socket 2011 eek.gif Your CPU has a passmark CPU score north of 12,000 I think. In comparison a typical user around here is using an i3 dual core CPU with a score of about 3000 or so. Your beastly CPU is roughly as powerful as three different users HTPC's put together.

I think the i5 should run it well (which i5 ??) but it's not going to be so easy. SVP gives an i5 a decent workout, but you can do it with something like a 3570k or a 4670k. That's minimum though. No dual cores allowed. tongue.gif

how did your laptop do ? Even on the lighter settings (like 2c) you get a nice effect on the laptop.

Glad you like it. It is pretty cool. It's basically the same thing those really fancy TV's are doing.

My i7 workstation I built it specifically for HD video editing and eventually music composition (DAW). But I also use it to test out some software video related like in this case for SVP since its the most powerful PC I have right now. I knew if i was going to do HD video (hopefully as a business down the line) I needed something more top-of-the line. The 3930K fits that bill nicely, considering it ran me about $500!

The i5 in my main HTPC is the i5-2500, which is the 1155 socket and is quad-core. Built it about a year ago since for that time it was all I really needed horsepower wise, with the GTS 450 GPU. It may not be as strong for SVP so it may run at either 3 or 4G. I'll know once I get it set up.

My laptop test is satisfactory with the 2G setting, running an A8 AMD CPU. GPU is AMD Radeon HD 7640G.

One thing I have noticed though during testing is the ghosting in some scenes, mostly really fast action scenes. May have to do more tweaks but so far its working great.

Nice to have the effect without having to pay the premium for a flatscreen with that same feature.
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post #546 of 685 Old 12-14-2013, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you run MADVR too ? With anti ringing filter ?

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post #547 of 685 Old 12-14-2013, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Do you run MADVR too ? With anti ringing filter ?

Yes, with the filter enabled. I'll have to study a bit on the MadVR settings, but shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.
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post #548 of 685 Old 12-15-2013, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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post #549 of 685 Old 12-15-2013, 08:58 AM
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Never confuse interpolation with an actual high-framerate source. Interpolation can only do so much, and actual high framerate material will look much better, sharper, clearer, with appropriate motion blur.
Interpolated material will always have wonky motion blur, is never going to be perfectly sharp, and has a host of other issues. It may look nice on some content (especially animation), but it can't hold a candle to actual HFR material (be it 48p or even 60p), and comparing the two does not make much sense.

Don't spread false information giving people the feeling that they get actual HFR out of such a tool.
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post #550 of 685 Old 12-15-2013, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I do agree with you that there is only so much "fake" HFR can get you. And with it will come the issue from how it's sourced (like ringing or blur or whatever). But the effect to the end user is much the same, that smooth and full image being presented.

I agree with you that a natural source (like shot in HFR camera) is going to look much better. But for the majority of 24p material there is only one thing you can do. You can't go back and reshoot the movie in HFR. At the end of the day, it's always going to be individual choice if someone likes the HFR or not. Some don't even seem to like it when shot native with HFR, while others like even 24fps->60fps interpolation better. I wasn't trying to spread false info, rather I was only commenting on the debate about HFR or not.

I am guessing that in years to come many things will be made in HFR and that will become normal to us. We will look back on 24fps stuff and it will look strange and old. Much like how 4:3 looks to us today in an HD world. Change is coming. (guessing)
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post #551 of 685 Old 12-15-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Well I do agree with you that there is only so much "fake" HFR can get you. And with it will come the issue from how it's sourced (like ringing or blur or whatever). But the effect to the end user is much the same, that smooth and full image being presented.

I agree with you that a natural source (like shot in HFR camera) is going to look much better. But for the majority of 24p material there is only one thing you can do. You can't go back and reshoot the movie in HFR. At the end of the day, it's always going to be individual choice if someone likes the HFR or not. Some don't even seem to like it when shot native with HFR, while others like even 24fps->60fps interpolation better. I wasn't trying to spread false info, rather I was only commenting on the debate about HFR or not.

I am guessing that in years to come many things will be made in HFR and that will become normal to us. We will look back on 24fps stuff and it will look strange and old. Much like how 4:3 looks to us today in an HD world. Change is coming. (guessing)

We will one day reach a point, with both frame rates and pixel count, where we will no longer be able to perceive any further evolutionary gain.

For instance, imagine a 120" projector displaying the same pixel density that you have on your iphone.

Now imagine a frame rate at something like 240fps. Or some other frame rate that exceeds what our brains can process, thus making "motion blur" from fast action sequences, sports, etc... a thing of the past.

Think about it... IMO the end goal for the industry is (should be) to make movies indistinguishable from real life.

 

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post #552 of 685 Old 12-16-2013, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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By the time we hit enough sound and pixel count to equal real life I am sure we will be looking into real 3D, or holograms or something. tongue.gif I could not imagine a screen 10 foot wide with the same density as my retina screen. WOW. eek.gif

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post #553 of 685 Old 12-17-2013, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
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I could not imagine a screen 10 foot wide with the same density as my retina screen. WOW. eek.gif

I think you just did!

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post #554 of 685 Old 12-20-2013, 04:59 PM
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So if you only like SVP applied to Animation is there a way to have SVP open/start automatically with animation movies and then have it shutoff when done?

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post #555 of 685 Old 12-20-2013, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The easiest way is to just turn it on. And then turn it off. I have not found a better way (but I have not tried)

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post #556 of 685 Old 12-22-2013, 11:07 AM
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post #557 of 685 Old 12-22-2013, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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7770 ghz edition is just barely enough for madVR (it might stutter on some video) at high levels (film should be fine).

I'd get that if you must choose from that list above. It would be enough for SVP on level 5G assuming your CPU can keep up.

R7 260X I think is the new 7790 but none of the upper level cards come silent or half height (that I know about)

What case do you have ? Can you use a slot adapter ?



or

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post #558 of 685 Old 12-23-2013, 07:32 AM
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I have this case - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204030 with HD-6450 in it for a video card.

No I am not buying a new case right now so that is not a solution. Just looking to get the next highest level card I can that will fit in my case.

Bought the MSI R7790-1GD5/OC Radeon HD 7790 1GB but it was too tall that the cover would not slide back on.

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post #559 of 685 Old 12-23-2013, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Can you use the slot adapter ?

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post #560 of 685 Old 12-23-2013, 08:13 AM
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No because I have a TV tuner in there is as well.

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post #561 of 685 Old 12-23-2013, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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How about the ribbon cable kind and relocate the card a different direction and orientation ?

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post #562 of 685 Old 12-23-2013, 09:42 AM
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No in this case I don't think so.

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post #563 of 685 Old 12-26-2013, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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You are in a tough spot because the more serious cards are obviously better choice based on performance, and with the new models launching it's possible to pick up the 7790 or 7870 level cards at or under $100.

But if they don't fit- you are stuck with the decision to upgrade your case, keep waiting, or choose an alternative that fits but might not be as a good deal on value or performance.

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post #564 of 685 Old 01-01-2014, 02:30 PM
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First off, Happy New Year to everyone! This is an awesome thread and one which has driven me to upgrade my HTPC to push video in my home to the next level. Being rather new to all this, I want to make sure I have things properly setup so looking for any guidance anyone is willing to give wink.gif My setup is below...

TV - Samsung UN65F9000
AVR - Marantz 6007
HTPC Components
- Intel 4770K 3.5GHz (not overclocked)
- 8GB of RAM
- EVGA GTX770 video card
- Streaming various videos in MKV, blu-ray ISO rips, etc via 1Gb FlexRaid server (12TB).

Software Used
- XBMC Gotham Alpha 10
- External player set to MPC-HC
- Mad-VR
* Level 5 settings per this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1477339/so-youve-built-your-htpc-now-what-is-next-how-to-get-the-ultimate-picture-and-sound-quality-from-your-htpc-madvr-svp-xbmc-mediabrowser-jriver
- SVP
* Running at level 5 by choosing reset to default level and it auto detecting
* Using LAV filters as I've read they're superior over ffdshow
- ReClock with bitstreaming enabled (i know not recommended but wanted bitstreaming decoding done by my AVR)

With the above, my CPU seems to coast along and watching MPC-HC OSD, I receive no frame drops/repeats, etc and run a consistent 23.937 frame rate. I'd like to try to push the 23FPS up to 60 but running into problems figuring out the correct settings. Any suggestions on what/where to change things within SVP and is there any further settings required within Mad-VR such as display modes?
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post #565 of 685 Old 01-01-2014, 02:54 PM
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I'd like to try to push the 23FPS up to 60 but running into problems figuring out the correct settings. Any suggestions on what/where to change things within SVP and is there any further settings required within Mad-VR such as display modes?

I've been using SVP on one Ivy i5 computer and on another Ivy 2.6ghz Celeron computer. Trying to figure out the best settings for the Celeron has been an adventure. Some things:

half, 1px, 2px Motion Vectors Precision seems to have the biggest CPU usage vs. least video difference ratio. I've read so many SVP threads on various sites and still can't figure out exactly what that setting does, nor have I noticed much if any video quality difference. Changing this setting to 1 or 2px would be the first thing I did if I was looking to free up the CPU. At least one SVP dev has said he prefers 2px anyway.

I think Artifact Masking is mostly a waste of time. If fewer artifacts are wanted, I'd probably just turn down Motion Vector Grid instead.

I don't know what exactly you mean by running into problems figuring out the correct settings for 60fps, though. You just change Target Frame Rate to Screen Refresh Rate Default (assuming your monitor is using a 60 refresh rate).

The only real problem my Celeron has is with 1080 video. I can do higher settings for low-action/bitrate stuff, but heavy action will drop frames. The Celeron can often do 16px Motion Vector at 1080, but that's too much for heavier action. Some combination of either 24px at 1080 60fps or 16px or 24px at 48fps seems to work well. I know some people will scoff at a Motion Vector of 24, but even 24px and 48fps is a huge difference from running 24fps with no SVP.

This is using XBMC and EVR. I can't get MadVR to work well with my video cards (including a 7870), but it's hard to notice much if any difference between that and using EVR with bicubic anyway to me. Also, far as I know, I don't think MadVR works with XBMC with DSplayer and SVP anyway, so I stopped worrying about it.
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post #566 of 685 Old 01-01-2014, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone using it on Mediabrowser Theater yet ?

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post #567 of 685 Old 01-01-2014, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFranchise View Post

I've been using SVP on one Ivy i5 computer and on another Ivy 2.6ghz Celeron computer. Trying to figure out the best settings for the Celeron has been an adventure. Some things:

half, 1px, 2px Motion Vectors Precision seems to have the biggest CPU usage vs. least video difference ratio. I've read so many SVP threads on various sites and still can't figure out exactly what that setting does, nor have I noticed much if any video quality difference. Changing this setting to 1 or 2px would be the first thing I did if I was looking to free up the CPU. At least one SVP dev has said he prefers 2px anyway.

I think Artifact Masking is mostly a waste of time. If fewer artifacts are wanted, I'd probably just turn down Motion Vector Grid instead.

I don't know what exactly you mean by running into problems figuring out the correct settings for 60fps, though. You just change Target Frame Rate to Screen Refresh Rate Default (assuming your monitor is using a 60 refresh rate).

Thanks, your suggestions helped with SVP. The below are the changes that I have made..

Motion Vector = Two pixels like you mentioned
Frames interpolation = Max smoothness
Processing of scene changes = Blend adjacent frames
Checked the Blend frames to screen refresh rate box

I came to these settings by watching dropped frames within MPC-HC OSD at the same time making sure that CPU stayed in check.

In regards to the refresh rate, I was playing with the target frame rate. Changing it to anything other then screen refresh rate causes issues. I am running at 4k resolution since my TV supports it so the highest I can push is 30 (limitation of 1.4 HDMI which I found after playing with my screen resolution settings).

I'm not sure if the settings I choose above since my original question are correct, but it seems that things are a bit smoother than the default 5G that is auto detected at the same time keeps dropped frames to a min if at all any.
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post #568 of 685 Old 01-01-2014, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cfendya View Post

In regards to the refresh rate, I was playing with the target frame rate. Changing it to anything other then screen refresh rate causes issues. I am running at 4k resolution since my TV supports it so the highest I can push is 30 (limitation of 1.4 HDMI which I found after playing with my screen resolution settings).
If you are only getting 30fps, I think you are really missing out. 60fps is noticeably better than 48fps, (48fps is still excellent), but 48fps is light years ahead of 30fps. I don't even know how that works if you are playing a 24fps video. That would only be adding 6 extra frames.

My wimpy Celeron can run solid settings at 720p, but 1080 I have to start making bigger concessions such as dropping 60fps down to 48fps. 48fps is good enough for Peter Jackson, so it's not too big a deal, really. wink.gif It still looks so much better over no SVP that I'm not in a big hurry to put a faster CPU in there.

I would think upscaling a 1080 video to 4k with SVP uses a lot of computer power, but I don't know. I made my stand at 48fps, though. Less fps than that at 1080 and I'd have already put a faster CPU in.

I'd have to look at the settings again, but if you changed those blending frames etc settings... I had no luck with those. They used more processing power and made things look the same or worse. Lowering the SVP Shader can save some CPU, but it didn't seem worth the bother, (21 Simple saving maybe 3% CPU usage on the Celeron), and the faster settings looked to have more blurring. I still don't know why "Complicated" SVP Shader isn't a default for even the highest default settings. I've read what it does, it uses more frames for interpolation, but apparently it's not worth it over 13 Standard (default).
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post #569 of 685 Old 01-02-2014, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Anyone using it on Mediabrowser Theater yet ?

I want to but the last time I tried it (a little over a month ago) it wasn't stable. I'd love to find something I can dump XBMC for where I don't have to play with external players but for now, XBMC + MPC-HC works well. I just use it for streaming movies from a dedicated server. Perhaps I need to try it again.
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post #570 of 685 Old 01-02-2014, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TheFranchise View Post

If you are only getting 30fps, I think you are really missing out. 60fps is noticeably better than 48fps, (48fps is still excellent), but 48fps is light years ahead of 30fps. I don't even know how that works if you are playing a 24fps video. That would only be adding 6 extra frames.

I'm running at 4k resolution so the max I can drive at is 30. Once the new HDMI standard comes out, this will allow full 4k at 60. If I try by using SVP to double my frame rate, even the OSD within MPC-HC shows my native fps still at 30. I could be wrong about all this but I don't think I can go higher right now.
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