madVR v0.86.0 released - with Smooth Motion - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
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"Release notes from Doom9 forum: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1616520#post1616520

added smooth motion frame rate conversion algorithm
added settings page for smooth motion frc configuration
added “trade quality for performance” option for smooth motion frc
added test patterns to madTestPatternSource to test smooth motion frc
fixed: RGB input with odd width/height is now accepted untouched
fixed: IVideoWindow::put_Owner() failed when pins were not connected yet
fixed: madHcCtrl.exe autostart registry entry was incorrect / not working
fixed: occasional crash when using DXVA scaling with high-bitdepth content
fixed: green line at the left image border when using DXVA scaling
file “settings.bin” is not written into win7/8 “VirtualStore”, anymore
slightly improved multi monitor behaviour (when using DXVA or MPC-BE)
filter enumeration timer is now only active during DVD playback
extended logging for fullscreen exclusive presentation queue
internal software video decoders are now disabled by default (again)
Introducing the new “smooth motion” frame rate changer (FRC) with the following main features / benefits:

(1) Can convert any source frame rate to any display refresh rate, while maintaining smooth motion. (2) Endless playback without frame drops/repeats (if your PC is fast enough) without needing Reclock.

There are disadvantages, too, of course:

(1) Slightly higher GPU usage (not too much) with default settings. (2) Some sharpness loss (almost invisible with 23-25fps –> 60Hz conversion).

23-25fps –> 60Hz: minimal sharpness loss, nearly invisible 24fps –> 24Hz: visible sharpness loss 60fps –> 24Hz: very noticeable sharpness loss

Basically the higher the refresh rate, the better. And the lower the source framerate, the better.

There’s a new version of the madTestPatternSource filter available. It’s now a separate download because it increased in file size quite a lot, due to the new test patterns for smooth motion.

Technically the FRC algorithm simulates a display with infinite refresh rate. Which means that every video frame is displayed exactly when the timestamps ask for it. Consequently the motion smoothness depends on proper timestamps. If the timestamps (or audio clock) contain jitter, the playback will contain jitter, too. So even if Reclock might not be needed to avoid frame drops/repeats, anymore, when using madVR’s new FRC algorithm, you might still want to use Reclock, because it provides a stable and reliable audio clock with very low jitter, and it supports WSAPI exclusive mode, too. You can however slave Reclock to the audio hardware clock, if you want. Having Reclock fully enabled with audio resampling is still possible, though, it shouldn’t harm madVR’s FRC algorithm.

To my best knowledge madVR is now the only way to playback Blu-Ray/DVD movies without 3:2 pulldown judder on displays which don’t support 23.976Hz playback properly. I don’t think any hardware Blu-Ray player can do that, or even any of the expensive video processors. (Correct me if I’m wrong).

One last hint: There’s a new “trade quality for performance” option in the madVR settings which affects the quality of the FRC frame blending. By default frame blending is done in gamma corrected light, which is fast, but not mathematically correct. If your GPU is fast enough, it’s highly recommended that you disable the “trade quality” option for highest image quality. There are no negative side effects to blending frames in linear light – except for higher GPU usage, of course.

P.S: Just to avoid confusion: madVR’s smooth motion FRC does NOT modify audio in any way. Playback speed is not affected at all. The only thing that changes is that motion looks much smoother, if the display refresh rate isn’t an even multiple of the source framerate."

Think this may interest those of you currently tinkering with SVP
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post #2 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 06:46 AM
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Does motion look like a soap opera? I prefer to see the frames in a fast pan because it more closely mimics film and the in theater experience.
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post #3 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Does motion look like a soap opera?

No, not at all. It eliminates 3:2 pulldown judder perfectly when playing back a 24fps content with a 60Hz display. If your display supports 24Hz input properly, you don't need it. Some display supports 24Hz, but internally converts to 60Hz by mere 3:2 pulldown; madVR's smooth motion is mainly aimed at such a display.
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post #4 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not familiar with the technical aspects, but by eye (I have it set to play everything at 60fps) it looks great. None of the actors on ice skates effects ala SVP (not knocking it, its just not for me).
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post #5 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

I'm not familiar with the technical aspects, but by eye (I have it set to play everything at 60fps) it looks great. None of the actors on ice skates effects ala SVP (not knocking it, its just not for me).

What does this mean?

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post #6 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Just my take on 'soap opera effect' always get the impression their being pushed around and gliding on ice.
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post #7 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 07:21 AM
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AFAIK, MY samsung A650 circa 2008 supports true 24/23.xxx fps so IDK if I need this release. I just installed ver 0.85 and am running your "Level 3" settings with a GT 430 and haven't experienced any issues, BTW.
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No, not at all. It eliminates 3:2 pulldown judder perfectly when playing back a 24fps content with a 60Hz display. If your display supports 24Hz input properly, you don't need it. Some display supports 24Hz, but internally converts to 60Hz by mere 3:2 pulldown; madVR's smooth motion is mainly aimed at such a display.

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post #8 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 07:24 AM
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I figured after I asked that this is what you meant. That is a pretty good analogy. I know people that actually prefer that set to high on their TV's. I prefer it off even for sports.
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Just my take on 'soap opera effect' always get the impression their being pushed around and gliding on ice.

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post #9 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 07:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah definitely not my cup of tea either. The techincal aspects are way beyond my comprehension, but I sometimes have lipsync issues with playback at 24fps. However with everything set to run at 60 this eliminates that for me and takes care of 3:2 pulldown - win, win for me.
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post #10 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 07:57 AM
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If you are not sure if 23Hz of your display is good, I (actually madshi) recommend you to run SmoothMotion23.ytp (included in madTestPatternSource; double click "install.bat", then play SmoothMotion23.ytp with a player with madVR) @23Hz with smooth motion OFF and @59Hz with smooth motion ON and compare them (in particular fast moving parts).
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post #11 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelman1991 View Post

Yeah definitely not my cup of tea either. The techincal aspects are way beyond my comprehension, but I sometimes have lipsync issues with playback at 24fps. However with everything set to run at 60 this eliminates that for me and takes care of 3:2 pulldown - win, win for me.

What TV are you using?

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post #12 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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What TV are you using?

Panasonic 65VT30 plasma.
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post #13 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 08:23 AM
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I actually never use 24p on my tv (Panasonic 65ST50). Tried it out once and it looked odd...Maybe this will help.
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post #14 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Gotta say 24p playback never looked odd, I just had this awful lip sync issue - which I don't think was an issue with the panel, more a combo of software and hardware (ATI card through an Anthem MRX300 to the panel - with various front end apps and players). Playing back at 60fps, just cures all that for me - no issues at all.
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post #15 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FantaXP7 View Post

I actually never use 24p on my tv (Panasonic 65ST50). Tried it out once and it looked odd...Maybe this will help.

Define "odd" as that can mean just about anything.

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post #16 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you are not sure if 23Hz of your display is good, I (actually madshi) recommend you to run SmoothMotion23.ytp (included in madTestPatternSource; double click "install.bat", then play SmoothMotion23.ytp with a player with madVR) @23Hz with smooth motion OFF and @59Hz with smooth motion ON and compare them (in particular fast moving parts).

My TV reports 1080x1920 @ 24Hz when madVR switches resolutions to 23 and reports 23.9758fps in the statistics after pressing Cntrl J. Is the TV actually not doing this but rather doing a 3:2 pulldown? It is 120Hz and I just assumed it was doing this correctly. Maybe I need to investigate further? I have not heard of a ytp container type. With LAV and madVR this will play in MPC-HC?

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post #17 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Is the TV actually not doing this but rather doing a 3:2 pulldown?

Just run SmoothMotion23.ytp, you will see it immediately. smile.gif If madTestPatterSource.ax is registered, the only requirement of the player is that it uses madVR. The file .ytp plays itself (no source/splitter/decoder is necessary).

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post #18 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 08:52 AM
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Yes, just drag the file onto MPC-HC and it will play.
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post #19 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 09:05 AM
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When I play it what am I looking for? And what system demands does madVR 0.86 place on me? It looks pretty good right now and am not really looking to update my video card until I have to (h.265 or something along that line).

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post #20 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 09:16 AM
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Just compare and see if you see any difference. (Look at in particular fast moving parts.)

SM works on the scaled frames. So GPU usage for scaling won't change. If your card is capable of handling your scaling algorithm at 60fps, then your card should be able to support scaling + SM on movies 24fps with no problem.
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post #21 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you are not sure if 23Hz of your display is good, I (actually madshi) recommend you to run SmoothMotion23.ytp (included in madTestPatternSource; double click "install.bat", then play SmoothMotion23.ytp with a player with madVR) @23Hz with smooth motion OFF and @59Hz with smooth motion ON and compare them (in particular fast moving parts).

I tested playing the 23Hz file on a 60Hz monitor with MPC-HC.

Toggling SM on and off I can certainly see that it nearly eliminates judder in the top 3 panning strips.

However, I noticed that in the bottom (slowest) strip, the black and white stripes flicker terribly with SM on, but are rock solid with SM off.

Anyone else notice that artifact of SM?
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post #22 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 11:25 AM
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Uncheck the first "trade quality for performance" checkbox to reduce the stripe flickering. With real life video this problem rarely (if ever) occurs, though.
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post #23 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
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Uncheck the first "trade quality for performance" checkbox to reduce the stripe flickering. With real life video this problem rarely (if ever) occurs, though.

I already tried that. It does not make much difference.
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post #24 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 11:30 AM
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I can't wait to get home and play with this..

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post #25 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 11:30 AM
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It makes quite a big difference on my PC. That said, fixing this flickering would be possible by blurring the video, but it would cost sharpness, so I'm not fond of the idea. Furthermore, with real life content this problem doesn't really occur. The flickering comes from the alternating black and white pixel lines in the test pattern. Real life content doesn't have such extreme contrast changes from one pixel white to the next black. I've included these alternating black/white lines into the test pattern because I knew that it would be hard to make look good with the smooth motion frame rate conversion algorithm. If you find real life content which shows this flickering, please let me know. I don't think you will...
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post #26 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 12:22 PM
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If I watch my 24p content on a screen that supports 24p (well 96hz actually) would this benefit me at all?

No subwoofer I've heard has been able to produce the bass I've experienced in the Corps!

Must..stop...buying...every bluray release...
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post #27 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 01:00 PM
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If I watch my 24p content on a screen that supports 24p (well 96hz actually) would this benefit me at all?

 

I don't think so... This is to remove judder on a 60hz screen. If you're playing a 24fps movie on a 24hz display or a multiple, you should see no judder. This smooth motion would be useless to you.

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post #28 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 01:01 PM
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Sorry...this a a newbie question I'm sure. But, can be used with XBMC as the defualt player?
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post #29 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 01:02 PM
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Sorry...this a a newbie question I'm sure. But, can be used with XBMC as the defualt player?

I don't use XBMC but if it can use MADVR as the video renderer then yes.

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post #30 of 129 Old 02-21-2013, 01:05 PM
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XBMC internal player does not support madVR, but you can launch an external player supporting madVR easily.
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