HDHomeRun Dual for FIOS? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm in the process of switching from Comcast to FIOS now that they've expanded into my area. The package with both is internet + local channels only. With comcast I simply split the cable ahead of the modem and connected to the HDHomeRun Dual. Can I do the same thing with FIOS? Basically, can I run a cable from the FIOS modem/router to the HDHR Dual or do I need to upgrade to a HDHR Prime with a CableCARD rental?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 08:24 AM
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Your HDHR Dual should be fine. FiOS has the locals in ClearQAM.
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post #3 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Awesome thats what I was hoping. Thanks!
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post #4 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reggie14 View Post

Your HDHR Dual should be fine. FiOS has the locals in ClearQAM.

Both Cable and FiOS have bene given the green light by the FCC to encrypt those.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #5 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 09:17 AM
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I'm pretty sure they will too.

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post #6 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I'm pretty sure they will too.

That is why I bought an antenna and have considered building one too....

I am still going to subscribe to FiOS, but use Ceton for the encrypted channels (which is EVERYTHING but the locals, which are available with the antenna anyway), like now, and instead of using SDHR's for the ClearQAM, I will switch them over to ATSC.

6 TV's in the house on FiOS and we only pay $4.99/month to connect them all!!! Power to the CableCard and WMC7!!!
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post #7 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

Both Cable and FiOS have bene given the green light by the FCC to encrypt those.

Is there a timeframe on this? I would just see how it goes and then get the CableCARD and HDHR Prime when it happens (or just not bother and use OTA).
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post #8 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 10:18 AM
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Anytime the provider decides to do it as they have the green light now.

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post #9 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 10:21 AM
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I have a dual (ATSC) and a 3 tuner CC. I'm on FiOS. The dual does not see any channels on the FiOS cable, so I have it on an attic antenna. YMMV.
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post #10 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I spoke to a Verizon tech and he said the locals were unencrypted. The Dual also has a ClearQAM tuner so maybe Verizon does things differently by region? I'll post my results after the March 2nd install.
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post #11 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Anytime the provider decides to do it as they have the green light now.

The encryption thing wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the duopoly ripping us off with cablecard rental fees. Verizon was quoting me $6/mo!!! There's no incentive for them to develop software or 3rd party licensing solutions.
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post #12 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljo000 View Post

I spoke to a Verizon tech and he said the locals were unencrypted. The Dual also has a ClearQAM tuner so maybe Verizon does things differently by region? I'll post my results after the March 2nd install.

Understood. The Dual worked when I had Time Warner cable (different house) on the ClearQAM channels. I used a Happague PVR-150 and an ATI Home Theater Pro 650 for the analog channels and one ClearQAM channel. But, now that I'm on FiOS, no channels detected by my dual.

Verizon charges me $3 per month for my cable card. Seems to be a rip off, but oh well.
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post #13 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljo000 View Post

The encryption thing wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the duopoly ripping us off with cablecard rental fees. Verizon was quoting me $6/mo!!! There's no incentive for them to develop software or 3rd party licensing solutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

Understood. The Dual worked when I had Time Warner cable (different house) on the ClearQAM channels. I used a Happague PVR-150 and an ATI Home Theater Pro 650 for the analog channels and one ClearQAM channel. But, now that I'm on FiOS, no channels detected by my dual.

Verizon charges me $3 per month for my cable card. Seems to be a rip off, but oh well.

Don't you think they should be able to recoup the cost of the CableCARD and support required for it?

Plus I don't know what verizon needs to develop software or 3rd party licensing solutions for. The 3rd parties like SiliconDust and ceton do that.

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post #14 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 12:02 PM
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They are charging me plenty for my TV service. $3 for the card seems a bit nickel and dime, that's all. With any luck, they will never have to support it either.

I doubt Verizon had anything to do with the development of my HDHR.
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post #15 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post


Don't you think they should be able to recoup the cost of the CableCARD and support required for it?

Plus I don't know what verizon needs to develop software or 3rd party licensing solutions for. The 3rd parties like SiliconDust and ceton do that.

The point is, if they were forced by the regulator to open the spec to 3rd parties so other hardware (or software) could decrypt the signal, the costs to the end consumer would drop drastically and Verizon/Comcast wouldn't have to support anybody. The only reason they can get away with the status quo is because they choose not to compete with eachother on pricing or innovation. They should also be forced to sell wholesale capacity to other providers like they do with mobile service.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downloadable_Conditional_Access_System
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post #16 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by TornadoTJ View Post

They are charging me plenty for my TV service. $3 for the card seems a bit nickel and dime, that's all. With any luck, they will never have to support it either.

I doubt Verizon had anything to do with the development of my HDHR.

I think these cards cost around $100. Charter charges $2/mo. I have had to have support a few times to get it re-paired too. Paying $2/mo instead of the $20/mo DVR "fee" on top of $5/mo per STB doesn't bother me.

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post #17 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by blueiedgod View Post

Both Cable and FiOS have bene given the green light by the FCC to encrypt those.
For cable there is an incentive as they can encrypt locals at the head end, shutting down passive theft of locals for internet-only subscribers or for unsubscribed customers that they never bothered to physically disconnect. I know around here Comcast hasn't bothered to filter locals when I've subscribed off and on to internet-only service over the years. And last I checked, they've never actually disconnected my line when I dropped their cable service well over a year ago and returned my cable modem.

With FiOS though, if you don't subscribe to at least locals they can just turn off the RF overlay giving you no TV period. No unnecessary encryption equipment needed at the head end. No need for basic converters to decrypt basic channels. No passive theft. It does come with the down side of not having a few dollars a month revenue stream for a small subset of the subscribers, but honestly it's probably a wash when you factor in the hassles in keeping track of all of it.
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post #18 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

I think these cards cost around $100. Charter charges $2/mo. I have had to have support a few times to get it re-paired too. Paying $2/mo instead of the $20/mo DVR "fee" on top of $5/mo per STB doesn't bother me.

That's different if it is correct. I would have guessed they were $5.
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post #19 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 12:47 PM
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What is passive theft? There's stealing and then there's paying for something you receive but nothing is passive about theft.

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post #20 of 26 Old 02-21-2013, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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There's a big difference between viewing something they're piping into your home on the back of another subscribed service (i.e. getting free locals when you're internet only) and going out and hooking up free cable from the street line. Also, I really don't consider it theft when if someone does the former when the same channels are available OTA. You're not costing the cable co anything and you're not taking service away from anyone else.
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post #21 of 26 Old 02-22-2013, 05:05 AM
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Passive theft is what the movie studios have done to the american public by having the FCC trample on our fair use rights while they sit back and laugh like Satan while raking in mass profits from unfair and unjust rules.
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post #22 of 26 Old 02-22-2013, 05:24 AM
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I recently connected an HDHR-dual to FiOS here in Sothern New Jersey (yeah it sucks). I was really surprised at that all the local channels QAM channels were unencrypted. My original plan was to connect this tuner to an antenna. (I want to mothball my Hauppaug 2250)
I now realize that it is possible to have both a HDHR3-CC and HDHR and have five streams of video with FiOS. Statistically it would be unlikely that one would require more than three encrypted channels at one time.

If and when Verizon encrypts local channels, the HDHR will get connected to the antenna. rolleyes.gif
BTW: My CC rental is $3.99
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post #23 of 26 Old 02-22-2013, 05:33 AM
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Passive theft is what the movie studios have done to the american public by having the FCC trample on our fair use rights while they sit back and laugh like Satan while raking in mass profits from unfair and unjust rules.

That is called manipulation of copyright laws. There's no reason that Disney's mouse should be copyrighted forever (99 years is beyond the life-span of most everyone so it is practically forever). The constitution says "for a limited time". 99 years is beyond the intention of that. It was not passive at all on their part. They were quite proactive in getting the laws written this way.

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post #24 of 26 Old 02-22-2013, 07:59 AM
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I was being somewhat sarcastic
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post #25 of 26 Old 02-22-2013, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by billdacat View Post

If and when Verizon encrypts local channels, the HDHR will get connected to the antenna. rolleyes.gif

This is my plan now too. Hopefully I can avoid CC / STB rental entirely and instead spend the cash on Amazon Prime, Netflix etc.
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post #26 of 26 Old 03-04-2013, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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FYI for anyone who's interested. I had FiOS installed and can receive the locals without a cablecard or STB. I had the tech just run the cable to the HDHomeRun DUAL and everything came through just fine on WMC. I had a bit of trouble with customer service not believing that it was possible - they seemed convinced that I needed some sort of equipment rental in order to keep the TV subscription active. They sorted it in the end though and gave me a free upgrade to 50mbit service. What an improvement over Comcast!!

Also, for anyone who wants to use their own router instead of Verizon's, I followed the instructions below to set the Verizon router in bridge mode so my ASUS would get an IP from Verizon directly. This has the added benefit that if I ever upgrade the Verizon gear or change providers, I don't need to mess with my existing network setup.

http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r17679150-Howto-make-ActionTec-MI424WR-a-network-bridge

Edit: This is in MA...
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