WD Red vs WD Green vs Seagate 3TB Hard Drive Speeds - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 08:16 AM
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Yes, yes, yes smile.gif

The ST4000DM000 is the 4TB, 1TB per platter Seagate.

Yes, "I performed my own" (see above), with the help of my wife reporting from the basement. By the way, apparently "This is 40" is a hilarious movie based on her LOLs. smile.gif All of my movies and videos are stored on the 4TB Seagates, my TV series and recorded TV on 2TB WD Red. Currently my photography is stored on WD Green 1TB, but I'm transferring them over to the 2TB Seagate 7200rpm as we speak.

I wouldn't describe it as stutters, but there were brief seconds while packets buffered. Semantics maybe?

Mfusick, the difference I believe is that vladd and I were both kind of stressing the system. I was writing to disk (the rip), reading from it with the file copy and streaming two videos all at the same time. This is probably not normal. While we've never had an issue streaming to different rooms at the same time, I was impressed that the BD rip didn't affect the stream - only after the fourth activity was introduced were issues seen (in both tests).

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post #452 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 09:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

I was confused because you said SATA2 might be the problem, which cannot be true since a hard drive isn't fast enough to saturate SATA2 port, let alone SATA3.

Ah, gotcha - I did not express it well, but I meant the entirety of my aged system...it is starting to give me fits.
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post #453 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 10:45 AM
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Sounds like excuse to upgrade smile.gif

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post #454 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

Yes, yes, yes smile.gif

The ST4000DM000 is the 4TB, 1TB per platter Seagate.

Yes, "I performed my own" (see above), with the help of my wife reporting from the basement. By the way, apparently "This is 40" is a hilarious movie based on her LOLs. smile.gif All of my movies and videos are stored on the 4TB Seagates, my TV series and recorded TV on 2TB WD Red. Currently my photography is stored on WD Green 1TB, but I'm transferring them over to the 2TB Seagate 7200rpm as we speak.

I wouldn't describe it as stutters, but there were brief seconds while packets buffered. Semantics maybe?

Mfusick, the difference I believe is that vladd and I were both kind of stressing the system. I was writing to disk (the rip), reading from it with the file copy and streaming two videos all at the same time. This is probably not normal. While we've never had an issue streaming to different rooms at the same time, I was impressed that the BD rip didn't affect the stream - only after the fourth activity was introduced were issues seen (in both tests).

Buy 7200RPM 4TB drives and test to see if they suffer from similar issues smile.gif
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post #455 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 11:30 AM
 
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In 4 days I will be able to buy a Richland APU - that is the only part I still need. I purchased a Biostar A85W mobo when Newegg had a special on it. They gave me a free 8GB stick of Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Low Profile Desktop Memory (which normally sells for $65) when I purchased the mobo...could not refuse that deal! I also bought a new SSD, the Corsair Neutron Series CSSD-N64GB3-BK 2.5" 64GB SATA III since my current SSD is only SATA 2. I am going to repurpose that old SSD as a cache drive for my gaming PC.
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post #456 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 01:18 PM
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I think this is more a function of the Operating System I/O scheduler than it is of the HDD.

If you have a process that is requesting all of the available read or write bandwidth to a drive (such as when you copy a large file to or from the drive), then it is the I/O scheduler that has to decide how to allocate the device's throughput among competing processes. Some I/O schedulers may be optimized for overall throughput, in which case it makes sense to give each process a large chunk of time before switching to the other process. What is needed for smooth multimedia playback is an I/O scheduler that interrupts the greedy process more frequently to let the real-time process get more frequent chances at reading from the drive.

I'm not familiar with the details of the Windows I/O scheduler. But on linux, one of the common I/O schedulers you can choose is the deadline scheduler, which will try to avoid letting any requests sit in the queue for longer than a given (short) period of time. Something like that would be more likely to result in smooth playback of multimedia when another greedy process is trying to use up all available throughput of the drive.
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post #457 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jim2100 View Post

I think this is more a function of the Operating System I/O scheduler than it is of the HDD.

Has anybody compared Windows 7 and Windows 8? I have been using 8 for several months and feel it is better than 7 in this (and many other) regard. I will test this myself.
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post #458 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Has anybody compared Windows 7 and Windows 8? I have been using 8 for several months and feel it is better than 7 in this (and many other) regard. I will test this myself.

I was doing a copy job between from a Windows 7 PC to a Windows 8 PC, while there was bluray playing on the Win7 PC. The stream on the Win7 PC started stuttering along with occasional dips in speed on the Win8 copying job. Win8 to Win8 will be interesting.
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post #459 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 04:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

for some reason the WD's drop below that and cause stuttering if your doing too much at once..
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

But generally the WD greens hate multiple tasks- the performance drops way off into a territory I label "unacceptable"

In the short time I used a WD GREEN for a scratch disc I learned first hand how poor the overall performance was.

Does this guy live on a different planet where science doesn't exist and prejudice reigns supreme?
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post #460 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 10:20 PM
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Huh? I don't need science to quantify the exactness of how much slower a 5400rpm WD green drive is over a modern 7200rpm drive. It's basically common sense. I'm not sure what science your looking for ?


If you go back in this thread you'll see I posted independent benchmarks from multiple professional review sites comparing them. There's your science if you need it.

There's nothing wrong with using a green drive to stream movies- they are quiet , cool and somewhat energy efficient. If your doing more than simple storage they quickly lose their appeal. They are unusable as an OS drive or heavy work load scratch disk. Unacceptable performance is being kind to classify them.

I'm not sure what point your trying to make ?

I guess you just don't like me because I think Anand has gone downhill and I don't like them ?

That's really all I can guess based on your post in the other SVP thread ?

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post #461 of 853 Old 06-01-2013, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Buy 7200RPM 4TB drives and test to see if they suffer from similar issues smile.gif

smile.gif

I gotta say, based on the heat the single Seagate 2TB 7200rpm drive puts out I don't think the benefit would be worth it.

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post #462 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

smile.gif

I gotta say, based on the heat the single Seagate 2TB 7200rpm drive puts out I don't think the benefit would be worth it.

The older 2TB seagates put out much more heat. I recently picked up five of the Seagate 7200 rpm 3TB drives for an unRAID. They run cooler than my 7200 rpm 2TB seagate drives do.
And they only run slightly warmer than the new WD Green 3TB drives. Even though the Seagates are 7200 rpm.

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post #463 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nethawk View Post

smile.gif

I gotta say, based on the heat the single Seagate 2TB 7200rpm drive puts out I don't think the benefit would be worth it.

The older 2TB seagates put out much more heat. I recently picked up five of the Seagate 7200 rpm 3TB drives for an unRAID. They run cooler than my 7200 rpm 2TB seagate drives do.
And they only run slightly warmer than the new WD Green 3TB drives. Even though the Seagates are 7200 rpm.

Agree^. +1. I have seen the same

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post #464 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 01:52 PM
 
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Huh? I don't need science to quantify the exactness of how much slower a 5400rpm WD green drive is over a modern 7200rpm drive. It's basically common sense. I'm not sure what science your looking for ?


If you go back in this thread you'll see I posted independent benchmarks from multiple professional review sites comparing them. There's your science if you need it.

There's nothing wrong with using a green drive to stream movies- they are quiet , cool and somewhat energy efficient. If your doing more than simple storage they quickly lose their appeal. They are unusable as an OS drive or heavy work load scratch disk. Unacceptable performance is being kind to classify them.

I'm not sure what point your trying to make ?

I guess you just don't like me because I think Anand has gone downhill and I don't like them ?

That's really all I can guess based on your post in the other SVP thread ?

I don't know what is more laughable> Your verbose rambling posts using misspelled words, use of sophomoric "LOL"s ad nauseam, use of cat Gifs, posturing as a so-called expert when you know extremely little, or your inherent inability to truly grasp what is "Science" and the meaning of Scientific Method.

"Common sense" is something that should be tested. Apparently this is also another concept that you cannot grasp.

I believe the OP and now numerous others have shown using independent and unbiased data that a 5x00 RPM drive is not "unacceptable" or "poor" as you spew about here quite often. In fact there are others that have posted about their firsthand use of these drives showing them to be quite capable of performing in the precise manner that you have described as "unacceptable".

But I am sure this will be written off by Mfusick, the most blatantly biased and ignorant people on AVS, as another "OCZ/Anandtech" type conspiracy theory. You seem very quick to eschew data points that do not fit with your own while accepting anything at all that adds to your extremely biased and blatantly incorrect view of the world.
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post #465 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 02:59 PM
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Not again...
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post #466 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 03:09 PM
 
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I guess you just don't like me because I think Anand has gone downhill and I don't like them ?

It really has.
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post #467 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 03:12 PM
 
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I don't know what is more laughable> Your verbose rambling posts using misspelled words, use of sophomoric "LOL"s ad nauseam, use of cat Gifs, posturing as a so-called expert when you know extremely little, or your inherent inability to truly grasp what is "Science" and the meaning of Scientific Method.

He did post the information you are claiming he did not post. He also explained why the ancient graphs, using ancient HDD technology, are not valid when discussing new HDDs and new HDD technology.

As a note, your attack of his spelling is a logical fallacy and causes people to discredit the rest of your rant. You may have said something enlightening and important, but attacking spelling causes others to realize you are not to be taken seriously. Unless, of course, this was a forum dedicated to language. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and believe you think this is a forum dedicated to language and inform you that you are incorrect about that bit of information; this forum is dedicated to Audio and Video Science.
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post #468 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 03:46 PM
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Stop feeding the troll, and soon he'll find another bridge to hide under. Just a thought.
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post #469 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 03:49 PM
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The older 2TB seagates put out much more heat. I recently picked up five of the Seagate 7200 rpm 3TB drives for an unRAID. They run cooler than my 7200 rpm 2TB seagate drives do.
And they only run slightly warmer than the new WD Green 3TB drives. Even though the Seagates are 7200 rpm.

My 2TB is a week old. Since installing it the average temperature inside my case has gone up 5C. Everything is still well within threshold and no cause for alarm, but this did introduce more heat.

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post #470 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 04:26 PM
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My 2TB is a week old. Since installing it the average temperature inside my case has gone up 5C. Everything is still well within threshold and no cause for alarm, but this did introduce more heat.

I have a fairly new 2TB seagate drive and a bunch of old ones. I don't see much difference in heat between the new ones I have and the old ones. But I do see a difference in the 3TB ones I have.
Although I have a 4+ year old Seagate 2TB drive that is extremely hot. It is the oldest Seagate 2TB drive I have and that is always well over 40C. But I think it is a four or five platter drive. But I got it with my used A400 media player and it works great and I have it in a dedicated cooling slot so the heat is no issue.

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post #471 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 07:47 PM
 
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He did post the information you are claiming he did not post. He also explained why the ancient graphs, using ancient HDD technology, are not valid when discussing new HDDs and new HDD technology.

Incorrect assessment.

A subsequent study that was referenced by someone that showed that it IS valid and actually was faster than the "ancient" HDD technology that you are referencing.

Again> Science. Why test, right? "Common sense" tells you newer must be better. rolleyes.gif

But it was tossed aside. Why? Because it didn't fit into his acceptable data set.
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post #472 of 853 Old 06-02-2013, 08:55 PM
 
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Links or you made it all up.
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post #473 of 853 Old 06-03-2013, 04:54 AM
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<- - insert sophomoric "LOL". smile.gif

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post #474 of 853 Old 06-03-2013, 05:06 AM
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IMHO I like my 3TB Red. Plenty fast enough for my needs, no seek noises can be heard and it isn't hot.

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post #475 of 853 Old 06-03-2013, 05:22 AM
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IMHO I like my 3TB Red. Plenty fast enough for my needs, no seek noises can be heard and it isn't hot.

No one once said RED wasn't an awesome choice. It's sometimes a poor value, and disappointingly sells for higher cost per TB.

That's really the only serious negative of a RED.

Performance, energy, reliability, warranty, heat, noise, TLER, anti vibration, raid, - its pretty good on most fronts making it solid choice for basic storage.

Being slower because its a 5400 rpm drive isn't much issue when your using it over LAN as NAS and your network is limited in speed anyways.

I'd choose it for a NAS box or Unraid setup if the price was right. The 5900rpm Seagate 4TB with 1TB platters @ its current $149 price just steals almost all the thunder from the RED 3TB making it a poor choice.

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post #476 of 853 Old 06-03-2013, 07:54 AM
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Yeah. I got the Red mainly looking at the power and noise characteristics.

But here we have these kinds of prices, just some of the common HDD's:
WD10EZEX 66,00€
WD10EZRX 66,00€
WD10EFRX 76€
WD20EZRX 92,00€ (46€ per TB)
WD20EFRX 112,90€ (56,45€ per TB)
WD30EZRX 127,90€ (42,63€ per TB)
WD30EFRX 140€ (46,66€ per TB)
ST1000DM003 65,90€
ST2000DM001 89,90€ (44,95€ per TB)
ST3000DM001 127,90€ (42,63€ per TB)
ST4000DM001 167,90€ (41,97€ per TB)

If I'd look at the prices over at Germany they'd be a tad cheaper, the Red goes for 122,90€, Seagate 3TB/4TB goes for 101,95€/148,85€ so if I'd be on the market for a 3TB or 4TB right now and I'd order from Germany then I'd of course grab a Seagate.

E: Oh and the finnish prices are shipping included.

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post #477 of 853 Old 06-03-2013, 08:24 AM
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No one once said RED wasn't an awesome choice. It's sometimes a poor value, and disappointingly sells for higher cost per TB.

Just bought 6 3T REDS at $130.00 each. I believe that is on par with the Seagates.
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post #478 of 853 Old 06-03-2013, 08:30 AM
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Just bought 6 3T REDS at $130.00 each. I believe that is on par with the Seagates.

Just about $20 more per drive ($120 in your case).

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post #479 of 853 Old 06-03-2013, 10:05 AM
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Are any of these consumer drives rated for 24/7 operation?
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post #480 of 853 Old 06-03-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

The 5900rpm Seagate 4TB with 1TB platters @ its current $149 price just steals almost all the thunder from the RED 3TB making it a poor choice.

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Just bought 6 3T REDS at $130.00 each. I believe that is on par with the Seagates.

I think it's not just the price aspect that is the killer. It's the other factors too.

The 4TB seagate with 1TB platters is a 5900RPM drive that's really a good choice over a RED WD 3TB for more reasons than it's simply cheaper. (It is cheaper biggrin.gif )

Seagate 4TB @ $149 (newegg this week) is only $37.25 per TB
WD RED @ $130 is $43.33 per TB.

Not a huge difference in cost so that should't be a super deal breaker; The Seagate is only a little bit cheaper. The deal breaker is that the Seagate bests the WD on power consumption, Speed, capacity in addition to the cost aspect.
I believe a 4TB seagate only consumers about 5 watts. When you consider it's a 4TB and not 3TB (larger drives typically use a little more power) it's really pretty awesome. You get all the things you want in a storage drive. (1TB platters, 4TB size, Super low cost per TB, can be used in media server, No TLER issues, 5900RPM, Low energy, Low Noise, No head parking issues, Low heat and really great performance) I believe a 4TB seagate usually costs less per TB, is faster, uses less energy and it is cheaper in general USA pricing almost consistently.

That is what I was making reference about.

I don't mean to sound negative on the RED WD at all. It's a great drive. I'm just sad that WD is not being aggressive against Seagates very aggressive pricing on the 3TB and 4TB drives. I think the RED 3TB WD @ $109 would be a different story all together. For those limited by LAN network speeds, or those who don't care that it's slower than the Seagates- It would be a good quiet, cool, energy efficient option with a great warranty.

I think WD realizes that they have a built in fan base of WD supporters that are simply going to buy WD drives because WD makes them. They are probably making better margins on this new product differentiation strategy and still selling lots of drives.

RED = Server / NAS
GREEN = low power HTPC/PC or External USB only
BLUE = 7200rpm normal
BLACK = More Robust performance
AV/GP= Tivo DVR, Video editing
RE = Enterprise

Each drive is task specific designed. Each drives sells for a bit more.

I do really appreciate Seagates one size fits all approach. They try to make a single drive that's pretty good at everything- then MFG and sell the crap out of them to benefit from economies of scale. As of now, the 4TB is 5900rpm with 1TB platters making it awesome on energy and cost- The 3TB is 7200RPM making it awesome on performance and Cost- Both are still pretty good on energy, heat, noise, speed etc... you trade a little speed with the 5900rpm for a bit better energy/heat/noise and flip side you gain some speed with 7200rpm but the 7200rpm is still very competitive with the WD 3TB 5400rpm drives on energy/heat and noise.

WD RED:
Performance: ***
Price: ***
Energy: ***
Heat: ****
Noise: ****
Warranty: *****

Seagate 3TB:
Performance: *****
Price: ****
Energy: ***
Heat: ***
Noise: ****
Warranty: ***

Seagate 4TB:
Performance: ****
Price: ****
Energy ****
Heat: ****
Noise: ****
Warranty:****

Pricing is determined at street costs of $139 for WD RED, $120 for Seagate 3TB, and $159 for Seagate 4TB. The stars could be changed based on changes in pricing- which is really the only thing that going to sway a decision towards or away from one drive over another.

Otherwise- Sales are split based on what is important to the buyer. WD is purchased for WD brand preference or scared people who don’t mind overspending for a warranty. Some value the warranty much more than others- and $20 for an extra year warranty makes sense. (* you can get extended coverage replacement on Seagate for like $8 making it a better choice.) Seagate 3TB is for high value/performance applications- with top class performance and great cost. 4TB Seagate is the best solution for low energy, low cost storage- being slower 5900RRPM offering all typical benefits of a GREEN or RED drive with improved performance and lower cost.

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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